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thomhartmann

(3,995 posts)
Tue May 4, 2021, 10:49 AM May 2021

Nomadland Exposes the Middle-Class Rip-Off

Forty years of Reaganism and trickle-down economics have left America pockmarked with refugee camps and people hanging onto life by their fingernails

The award-winning movie Nomadland is every bit as brilliant as the reviews, but it’s also, for this era, a hell of a wake-up call.

Chloé Zhao’s film is a brilliant drama centered around a central character named Fern (with a stellar performance by Frances McDormand), struggling to survive after the loss of her husband, job and home.

In addition to it being a great movie, at an only slightly deeper level it raises vitally important questions about how we’ve structured our economy and social safety net in America.

As a kid growing up, almost every weekend my brothers and I would accompany our parents across small-town Michigan looking for new Salvation Army and Goodwill stores. Mom and Dad collected “antiques,” principally small things like buttons, postcards, stamps and a whole variety of small figurines and glass from the late 19th century to the mid-20th.

Their plan was that when Dad qualified for retirement, they’d buy an RV and travel around the country going from flea market to flea market, antique store to antique store, selling the things they’d purchased years earlier.

Sometimes they found incredible deals: books or postcards or small glass plates that the second-hand store was selling for a dime or 25 cents but was actually worth five or ten dollars. Other things, like Hummel figurines, they simply bought and collected because they figured they’d appreciate in value over time.

If Dad hadn’t been killed by the lies of the asbestos industry, they could’ve pulled it off. Because he’d worked at a union shop for over 40 years, he had a good pension to supplement his Social Security and a health insurance supplement to his Medicare that would both continue until the day he died.

And, unlike the movie but like my parents’ fantasy, there are people living comfortably in vans and RVs around the country who are not hanging onto the edge of the last decades of their lives by their fingernails; they’re living the middle-class retirement my parents dreamed of, or even better. Some are even still young and working.

They’re the lucky ones.

The unlucky ones sleep in Walmart parking lots or on the public streets around America’s towns, migrating south and west during the winter, and back north and east during the summer. They find part-time work in Amazon warehouses or sell their blood or clean toilets.

And there are now a lot of people stuck in this 2021 version of homelessness. Nomadland is a movie about a few of them.

The last house Louise and I lived in here in Portland was on a main thoroughfare-type of public street and near a park, and about twice a month over the past year or two we’d wake up to find an ancient, battered RV parked on the street in front of our house. Every week it was a different one. More than once, after they left, we’d have to clean up the trash they left in our front yard, or hose down their sewage from the street.

Nomadland, and the nonfiction book of the same title on which it’s based, does an absolutely brilliant job of capturing The Grapes of Wrath type of lives some of these Americans find themselves living, and the kind of resilient, caring and compassionate communities people form when down on their luck.

And, it also raises an important set of questions that are almost entirely missing from public discussions about the movie.

Why are these people living such marginalized lives?

Why, in the richest country in the world, can’t we provide for people when capitalism fails and factories or even, like in Nomadland, entire “company towns” shut down and die off?

Why have we let our Social Security benefits be so badly eaten up over the years by inflation that they no longer provide a secure cushion for people as they age (not Fern, but some of her friends)?

Why, for that matter, did we tolerate Reagan (with his 1983 “saving” of Social Security) raising the Social Security retirement age to 67 and putting an income tax on the benefits, while explicitly insulating people with multi-million dollar incomes from having to pay a penny of Social Security tax on the vast majority of their income?

Why can’t everyone in America have complete and comprehensive healthcare at no cost, like people in the majority of the other countries of the developed world? Why, instead, when we lose our jobs like Fern did, do we also lose our healthcare and other fallback supports?

If, after watching Nomadland, you’re looking for a palate cleanser, check out Michael Moore’s Where To Invade Next? He travels around the world looking at countries that actually put into place social policies usually first advocated here in the United States, but have been blocked for generations by conservative politicians.

When people in Europe lose their jobs, or their factories get shut down, nobody loses their healthcare. Nobody gets kicked out of school because they can no longer pay tuition.

Rarely do people lose their homes, and in most advanced countries the social safety net catches them long before they hit the kind of rock-bottom that has become a norm in the United States.

In the nonfiction book that formed the basis for the movie, Nomadland: Surviving America in the Twenty-First Century author Jessica Bruder writes: “Tales of money trouble were rampant. Sometimes I felt like I was wandering around post-recession refugee camps, places of last resort where Americans got shipped if the so-called ‘jobless recovery’ had exiled them from the traditional workforce.”

Forty years of Reaganism and trickle-down economics have left America pockmarked with refugee camps; some of them homeless tent cities, others clusters of RVs and vans, and many simply people sleeping rough on the street.

And while not explicitly raising these questions in a political or economic context, one can’t help watching this brilliant piece of movie-making without wondering, for weeks after, just how the hell America’s working class got so badly ripped off over the past two generations.

And wondering when we’re finally going to do something about it.

Original post: HartmannReport.com
64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Nomadland Exposes the Middle-Class Rip-Off (Original Post) thomhartmann May 2021 OP
Reagans economy could have been changed anytime in 45 years. Why hasn't it? jimfields33 May 2021 #1
You are absolutely right. former9thward May 2021 #16
Heck he had a democratic house all 8 years. jimfields33 May 2021 #17
Just the other day on this forum misanthrope May 2021 #34
+1 leftstreet May 2021 #44
++Yes I 100% agree with your post and in the du thread you mention I posted that luckone May 2021 #46
The Senate filibuster is the reason things can't change. brush May 2021 #45
Raygun destroyed the Unions, thus depriving the Democratic Party of Union $$$ Tommymac May 2021 #56
40 years of right wing talk radio Glaisne May 2021 #22
Pension vs 401K Johnny2X2X May 2021 #2
There's even more bad news on the horizon. bluesbassman May 2021 #4
I'm thankful my dad has a good pension Johnny2X2X May 2021 #6
Until inflation heats up. Sucha NastyWoman May 2021 #12
Curious what you would do to get that rate of return nilram May 2021 #19
3% on 80K is easy Johnny2X2X May 2021 #23
Ah, I wasn't counting capital. You're right, nilram May 2021 #26
Even interest income only on $80K is $200 a month Johnny2X2X May 2021 #30
You said it! Delphinus May 2021 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles May 2021 #38
Also, they may have not had to pay the penalty for withdrawal because of the pandemic, but I believe smirkymonkey May 2021 #32
Early withdrawals (under 59&1/2 y.o.) from 401k's Progressive dog May 2021 #35
It really sucks for these people. smirkymonkey May 2021 #37
Yes it does suck, Progressive dog May 2021 #57
I've been shouting this since 1990 pecosbob May 2021 #3
It's been like that for decades. Wish it would change, and our response to CV19 was a start. Hoyt May 2021 #5
The myth of pensions. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2021 #7
So true DownriverDem May 2021 #9
+1, uponit7771 May 2021 #10
But Elessar Zappa May 2021 #15
There's also a huge hunk of people PoindexterOglethorpe May 2021 #21
You seem very...I dunno...like bitter or something. ret5hd May 2021 #40
Ding ding ding! ShazzieB May 2021 #42
No, not bitter, just appalled that people make PoindexterOglethorpe May 2021 #49
Instead of being bitter over uneducated people... Tommymac May 2021 #58
Again, I am honestly not bitter. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2021 #59
Fair enough. I'll take your word. Tommymac May 2021 #60
So what is wrong with DownriverDem May 2021 #8
I felt the same way when I saw Nomadland FakeNoose May 2021 #11
Biden needs to up SS for those making a small amt - to at least $1200 womanofthehills May 2021 #13
Okay DownriverDem May 2021 #52
Get rid of the wage cap dclarston13 May 2021 #63
In the book, harvesting the sugar beets was horrible womanofthehills May 2021 #14
Thank you for this PatSeg May 2021 #18
401k's going back to Nixon were never meant to be your only retirement plan RANDYWILDMAN May 2021 #20
That he started taxing social security income is often forgotten Johnny2X2X May 2021 #24
It's not just that they tax it. They have never adjusted TexasBushwhacker May 2021 #43
I don't know if I can watch that, I'm debating... 2naSalit May 2021 #25
As a bankruptcy attorney, I can tell everyone... heckles65 May 2021 #27
yes Skittles May 2021 #39
now watch I Care A Lot lilmonkey May 2021 #28
We have a system where everyone ends up in the same state run nursing home Johnny2X2X May 2021 #33
a helluva movie ancianita May 2021 #50
Thank you, excellent article absolutely true wendyb-NC May 2021 #29
That was an excellent film, saw it twice. planning on watching again with friends. msfiddlestix May 2021 #31
I was thrilled to hear Biden say trickle down has never worked BigmanPigman May 2021 #36
I read the book. Don't get divorced in your fifties unless your name is Bezos or Gates cinematicdiversions May 2021 #41
The main character was a widow . Her husband died -at least in the movie luckone May 2021 #47
The book was non-fiction. I don't recall many if any widows cinematicdiversions May 2021 #48
I suggest reading the book lonely bird May 2021 #53
This Posting is The Best! McKim May 2021 #54
I saw "Nomadland" last night - it was a brilliant and heartbreaking film dlk May 2021 #55
I had a terrible argument with my friend watching Nomadland. Jetheels May 2021 #61
I haven't seen the movie so I have no opinion on it, but FWIW kcr May 2021 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author Roisin Ni Fiachra May 2021 #64
 

jimfields33

(19,382 posts)
1. Reagans economy could have been changed anytime in 45 years. Why hasn't it?
Tue May 4, 2021, 11:00 AM
May 2021

I thought he was a failed president but yet we still follow his policies? Doesn’t make sense.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
16. You are absolutely right.
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:02 PM
May 2021

We have had Democratic presidents and Democratic congresses since then. Yet for many they are frozen in time as if it is still the 1980s.

misanthrope

(9,495 posts)
34. Just the other day on this forum
Tue May 4, 2021, 04:04 PM
May 2021

Someone noted and took exception with Thomas Frank's observation to Bill Maher that President Bill Clinton pushed the Democratic Party rightward in the 1990s, that neoliberals took advantage of the zeitgeist for their own political survival instead of trying to stick with an older-style, progressive mindset. Posters in the thread called Frank to task, saying Clinton did what had to be done, or called Frank's portrayal erroneous.

But Clinton was riding the Reagan wave when he came up with easy phrases like "the era of Big Government is over." Regardless of the nuts and bolts of policy, it sounded as if the Democratic Party leadership was ready to move away from the New Deal and Great Society perspectives that had governed it for the last two-thirds of the 20th century.

That's what happens when tribalism supersedes ideals. It has haunted political parties for centuries. Threaten a coalition with political irrelevance and they will often sell their soul to guard against it.

President Biden, in some ways, is hewing closer to the Democratic Party as it was in his youth, when he first came into office. What he wants to do now would have been considered pretty normal in the 1970s. Not so much now, not in the wake of four decades of too much Democratic acquiescence to America's rightward drift.

leftstreet

(40,681 posts)
44. +1
Tue May 4, 2021, 10:31 PM
May 2021
Threaten a coalition with political irrelevance and they will often sell their soul to guard against it.


...and I would add to that the observation that in the US both parties tend to help pull each other back from the brink

luckone

(21,646 posts)
46. ++Yes I 100% agree with your post and in the du thread you mention I posted that
Tue May 4, 2021, 10:53 PM
May 2021

to me, Biden seems to be genuinely moving to undo some past mistakes and yes none of it would be controversy pre Reagan
Biden now sees the folly of the past as Frank said even though he was in it

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
45. The Senate filibuster is the reason things can't change.
Tue May 4, 2021, 10:40 PM
May 2021

The GOP has used it for decades to stop universal healthcare and other social safety policies that other developed nations have enjoyed for decades. Nations that we helped rebuild from WWll wreckage, and their citizens are way better off than us.

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
56. Raygun destroyed the Unions, thus depriving the Democratic Party of Union $$$
Wed May 5, 2021, 10:14 AM
May 2021

Dems had no real choice in the 1990's BUT to lie with the Corporate Dogs and get fleas.

Until Unions make a REAL comeback, until centrist Democrats give at least some respect to their historic Left Wing Brothers and Sisters, the Middle Class will continue it's slow descent into Nomadland.

President Biden, previously thought of as 'Mr. Moderate', (label given with true respect) is showing the Centrists and Conservatives in the Party HOW to do this.

I as a leftist Democrat respect him more then words can say.

He is truly a Uniter.

Glaisne

(645 posts)
22. 40 years of right wing talk radio
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:26 PM
May 2021

and other conservative propaganda have brainwashed a couple of generations to vote against their interests over bogus cultural wedge issues. Only now does there seem to be a turning an awakening, just barely. But fully a third of of the country is partially to totally out of touch with reality. Whether the insanity or the new progressivism wins out remains to be seen.

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
2. Pension vs 401K
Tue May 4, 2021, 11:31 AM
May 2021

Biggest difference between the 2 is that in bad times, people dip into their 401K to get by. When everything is going well and you are working and saving, it all seems fantastic. But when times get tough, and people have the choice between losing their homes or liquidating part of their 401K, they pick the 401K every time. And that's what we're seeing over and over. People build up their retirement and then lose much of it when they have no other choice but to spend it.

We saw it in 2020 with penalty free withdrawal because of the pandemic. Saved some people from suffering now, but they're going to regret it when they retire. Taking $10K out now means losing out on decades means 20 years later you're $40K short on your 401K. And people are forced to repeat this over and over, so the 401K income they planned on having ends up far short of what they needed.

And this isn't just the poor and middle class, upper income people suffer the same fate often too.

Last year was the first time the country made UE reasonable for people so getting laid off didn't completely ruin millions. But every other recession ends much worse for people.

A bomb is about top get dropped on the middle class who are trying to retire, they're going to find themselves in dire straights and nothing is being done to prepare the country for it.

bluesbassman

(20,384 posts)
4. There's even more bad news on the horizon.
Tue May 4, 2021, 11:57 AM
May 2021

Many of the "traditional" supplemental employment opportunities for seniors are drying up. Automation and changing purchasing habits and options, are making retail and customer facing jobs obsolete. In the recent past many seniors who have faced shortfalls in their retirement portfolio have turned to these types of low paying, but not too physically demanding types of jobs to survive. It's not reasonable or even feasible to expect grandma and grandpa to be climbing ladders picking peaches. When those lucky enough to even have 401k plans in the first place, come to realize that all of those "emergency" withdrawls come back to haunt them, they'll have even fewer options to survive than they do now.

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
6. I'm thankful my dad has a good pension
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:07 PM
May 2021

Because he had zero financial knowhow and his other investments did nothing for him, he'd be living just off SSI if he would have controlled his investments.

Most people are financially illiterate, and they hate being told that. The American Dream was only possible for most because of the pensions system.

But people can and must learn more about investing, and it's never too late to start. Even $80K at retirement is something that they can use to really change their lifestyle when they retire. That could mean payments of $400 or $500 a month for the duration of retirement and is the difference for a lot of people between making it and not making it after SSI.

nilram

(3,549 posts)
19. Curious what you would do to get that rate of return
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:12 PM
May 2021

At least, with reasonable risk for a retiree who’s main capital asset is 80k. Looking for ideas for friends and I who talk about this stuff.

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
23. 3% on 80K is easy
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:26 PM
May 2021

Some mutual funds, bonds, and short term investments. The $400 a month gets you to $0 remaining after about 20 years.

You can't live off the interest of $80K obviously, but if you keep it invested in low risk assets and withdraw $450 a month you'll have that income for 20 years.

nilram

(3,549 posts)
26. Ah, I wasn't counting capital. You're right,
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:34 PM
May 2021

that scenario would last for about 20 years

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
30. Even interest income only on $80K is $200 a month
Tue May 4, 2021, 02:39 PM
May 2021

My mother in law made a bunch of really bad decisions after her 2nd husband left her, ended up losing everything. But when she applied for social security the first time around some really kind person on the other end of the line did her a major solid and got her collecting her first husband's social security as he died many years ago, but she was still eligible to get it. So she collected his until she maxed out her own and then switched. She just got a $275 a month after taxes raise because of it. That little bit makes all the difference in the world to her right now, it means she can put a little in savings each month, it means she has a cushion, it means she has more food security.

An extra $400 or $500 a month is a big deal to most retired people. Even people in their 50s just starting a 401K can easily attain that.

I know, I know, everyone thinks they're going to have a million dollar 401K, and some will and then some, but the majority of people will get more than half their income from Social Security. Supplementing that with anything at all makes a huge difference for people.

Delphinus

(12,522 posts)
51. You said it!
Wed May 5, 2021, 06:08 AM
May 2021

My Mom was on SS and then got a VA pension; it wasn't a huge amount but it made a tremendous difference to her being able to stay in her home 'til her death.

Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #6)

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
32. Also, they may have not had to pay the penalty for withdrawal because of the pandemic, but I believe
Tue May 4, 2021, 02:58 PM
May 2021

it is still considered a taxable event if they are younger than retirement age, so they are going to owe the IRS on top of being in dire financial straits.

Progressive dog

(7,603 posts)
35. Early withdrawals (under 59&1/2 y.o.) from 401k's
Tue May 4, 2021, 07:16 PM
May 2021

are not only taxed but carry an additional 10% tax rate.
A person I worked with and his wife split up. Since they were already in financial difficulty, they split the money from his 401k. The IRS garnished his wages and he lost his security clearance.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
37. It really sucks for these people.
Tue May 4, 2021, 08:51 PM
May 2021

They probably didn't even clear that on capital gains, but because they are desperate they are losing money. This system is just so fucked up.

Progressive dog

(7,603 posts)
57. Yes it does suck,
Wed May 5, 2021, 10:22 AM
May 2021

Our plan had been a profit sharing plan along with an annuity type plan paid by the company. They discontinued the annuity first and gave us the cash which could be rolled into an IRA. Then, a few years later the profit sharing ended and that money was placed in a 401K.
The company saved a lot of money by only giving a 50% match up to 4% employee savings.

pecosbob

(8,387 posts)
3. I've been shouting this since 1990
Tue May 4, 2021, 11:54 AM
May 2021

but most in my generation were too wrapped up in their consumerism to notice they were being fucked

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. It's been like that for decades. Wish it would change, and our response to CV19 was a start.
Tue May 4, 2021, 11:58 AM
May 2021

As far as homelessness, we have a better/lower homelessness rate than countries like this (data does vary as to how "homeless" is defined):

England
Australia
Canada
France
Germany
Netherlands

https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pdf


None of that suggests we should stop trying to make this better.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
7. The myth of pensions.
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:18 PM
May 2021

I really get tired of the assumption that everyone, or at least most people, had good pensions back in the day. In reality, fewer than half of workers were ever covered by a pension. And even those that might have had one, often did not work long enough to actually collect. And many companies and unions systematically underfunded those pensions and so promises made have not been promises kept. At least a 401k is your money and you get to keep it and take it with you when you leave a job.

Yeah, a 401k isn't perfect, but as someone whose pension is less than a third of what it should be, I'm all too aware that the golden age of pensions never really existed.

Oh, and Social Security was never intended to be 100% of a person's retirement income. It was seen as one leg of a three legged stool, the other two legs being a pension and savings.

DownriverDem

(7,014 posts)
9. So true
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:23 PM
May 2021

Many are former auto workers who vote to hurt the rest of us. SS was part of a 3 tiered retirement - Savings, pension and SS. Then repubs started destroying this plan. Why are so many Americans so ignorant?

Elessar Zappa

(16,385 posts)
15. But
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:53 PM
May 2021

there's a huge chunk of people who have had low wage jobs their entire lives, lacking a 401k or pension and lacking a meaningful savings. Those people will be depending on solely social security and need it to be enough to live on. I think Biden has stated a goal of raising the SS for lower end recipients which should help the situation considerably if he's able to do it.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
21. There's also a huge hunk of people
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:22 PM
May 2021

who had decent jobs but never saved a penny, never contributed to a 401k, who decided to collect Social Security at age 62 and then are surprised at how little they get. And I'll repeat that it was never intended to be someone's only source of income.

As it is, SS is a better deal for low income recipients. It could certainly be raised, or perhaps we should have a Universal Basic Income.

ret5hd

(22,502 posts)
40. You seem very...I dunno...like bitter or something.
Tue May 4, 2021, 08:57 PM
May 2021

The financial “world” is not taught in our schools. Is it any wonder so many don’t understand.

I also believe, based on many observations, that many of those raised in a upper-middle-class and up environment have a very different understanding of money and how to make it work for them. Kind of a learn by osmosis type situation.

And many raised in lesser income households just don’t have that inate understanding, even if they get a good job/come into money.

Just look up how many broke lottery winners there are for the lack of financial understanding that I am talking about.

ShazzieB

(22,590 posts)
42. Ding ding ding!
Tue May 4, 2021, 09:31 PM
May 2021

We have a winner! Ime, it is absolutely true that people learn about handling money properly if they grow upina home where they see it being done. In my case, my parents never had much money, and they knew ZERO about to invest or plan for retirement, or anything else.

I still don't understand these things very well, but dh and I were on our way to building up some decent nest eggs in our 401Ks, when the 2008 recession hit and about half the money we had squirreled away went *poof.* At the same time I became unemployed (also due to the recession) at the age of 58. I then proceeded to work a series of temporary jobs for the next few years. I was never able to land another full time job with actual benefits, and by the time I was old enough for social security, I was completely burnt out from all the struggles and rejection. So I started collecting my benefits. The idea of money that I could count on coming in on a regular basis was irresistible at that point.

Now I tell people I'm retired, but it doesn't feel like it. I always thought of retiring as something you choose to do, when you decide you're ready to do it. I feel like I was forced into it, but oh well.

Now my husband needs to retire, and we need to find a cheaper place to live. We won't be able to afford the rent where we are now, once he stops working. Eventually, we'll need to relocate to an area with a lower col. Such is life in 2021 America.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
49. No, not bitter, just appalled that people make
Wed May 5, 2021, 12:29 AM
May 2021

no effort to plan ahead or learn how to manage money.

I grew up fairly poor, and I quickly learned the value of living within my means, not taking on debt, saving, and eventually investing. I like to think I'm smart, although I'm probably not as smart as I think. If I could figure out these things, so could a lot of others.

One huge problem, honestly, is commercial TV. Shows have people living far, far better than their actual supposed jobs would allow. Plus, every few minutes there are ads telling people they will be happy if they only purchase this or that. I don't have a regular TV. I watch a fair number of shows on the internet, but I'm spared the advertising. That's been a huge help in my living frugally.

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
58. Instead of being bitter over uneducated people...
Wed May 5, 2021, 10:31 AM
May 2021

Why not spend your energy EDUCATING them.

You have a forum here - you have lots of 'post credibility'...use your soap box for positive memes...

BTW, nothing personal, not an attack - your posts here in this OP do seem a bit bitter in tone. Maybe not intended, but that is how I perceive them too.

I grew up poor too - I received at least a marginal financial education as I went to school in the 1970's when critical thinking was still emphasized - but good financial habits are hard to establish when one grows up in an impoverished environment with parents who never learned it's value or how to save since they never had any surplus. I had the education, but not the example.

For a lot of my life I was bitter too - towards those who in my mind were 'rich' - though they were really only middle class. I became a rebel without a cause and lived my life day to day.

I was 50 before I realized what the future really meant - And about the time I started to really save, put real money into a 401K, George Bush stole it from me with his 2008 Recession.

That is when I really examined BOTH parties and realized that there was a difference, though the Democratic Party had partly become a tool of the Billionaires too - but it could and to some extent already HAS been redeemed and is trying to get back to it's Progressive liberal FDR New Deal roots.

Anyways, thanks for your perspective - I don't agree with a lot of what you say but it is food for discussion.



PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
59. Again, I am honestly not bitter.
Wed May 5, 2021, 11:20 AM
May 2021

Just angry. And I do try to encourage people to budget better, to learn more about how to manage their money, but in reality I can't do all that much even with good friends. For one thing, people are reluctant to share much in the way of specifics about their income, spending, debt.

And I am living remarkably well on a limited income, in no small part because I have modest wants and save money for the things I really do want.

DownriverDem

(7,014 posts)
8. So what is wrong with
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:20 PM
May 2021

white repub voters that they voted to destroy us going back to reagan? I watched in horror election after election as folks voted repub. They voted their fear and hate and ignored what repubs were doing/

FakeNoose

(41,634 posts)
11. I felt the same way when I saw Nomadland
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:32 PM
May 2021

It's a brilliant illustration of how my generation - the baby boomers - have gotten screwed by the evil empire of one-per-centers. And yet the story is told in a way that's not political grandstanding. It's a story that even rural and small-town people can relate to, how dreams died and families fell apart, and nobody knows whom to blame. It's a deep theme and not everyone relates with introspection in the same way. I plan to see it again because my sister is now interested, I'll watch it again with her. Nomadland - if seen with friends of a similar age group - can be a real conversation starter, a definite eye-opener.

womanofthehills

(10,988 posts)
13. Biden needs to up SS for those making a small amt - to at least $1200
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:46 PM
May 2021

Many people in the book were living on $500 - $600 a month. At one point, Elizabeth Warren was talking about not raising SS by percentage but to give those getting little money an extra $100.00.

dclarston13

(441 posts)
63. Get rid of the wage cap
Thu May 6, 2021, 08:55 AM
May 2021

I think it's dumb that we stop taking SS Tax out of someone's pay after they reach 142,800.00 If they remove that it solve all sorts of issues.

womanofthehills

(10,988 posts)
14. In the book, harvesting the sugar beets was horrible
Tue May 4, 2021, 12:50 PM
May 2021

Putting workers lives in in jeopardy- running large diesel trucks in inclosed spaces giving people severe headaches.

RANDYWILDMAN

(3,163 posts)
20. 401k's going back to Nixon were never meant to be your only retirement plan
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:16 PM
May 2021

they were supposed to supplement other things including social security.


The biggest sham of the Reagan era was the changing of the Bankruptcy rules that allowed corporate america to bail out on pensions for penny's on the dollar.

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
24. That he started taxing social security income is often forgotten
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:27 PM
May 2021

It's his biggest F You to working people.

TexasBushwhacker

(21,204 posts)
43. It's not just that they tax it. They have never adjusted
Tue May 4, 2021, 10:20 PM
May 2021

the amount you can make before the SS is taxed. When they started taxing it back in the 80s, the amount a single person could make before SS was taxed was $25K. Guess what? It's STILL $25K over 30 years later! What's worse is that the limit for married people isn't double, it's only $38K!

2naSalit

(102,793 posts)
25. I don't know if I can watch that, I'm debating...
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:30 PM
May 2021

My concern is that it could just turn into a triggering event for my PTSD. I have been homeless twice in my life, living in my vehicle, both times during a republican administration. The last time was only a few years ago, I'm in my sixties, it sucked as I was in a northern state that I couldn't leave for a few reasons so I was car camping during the winter. I feel it's too close to something I'd rather not revisit even for a little while.

I am glad that this movie was made and that it has generated so much conversation, the country needs to address this now.

heckles65

(631 posts)
27. As a bankruptcy attorney, I can tell everyone...
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:35 PM
May 2021

Bankruptcy in that situation is your RIGHT. Unless you have a million in your 401K, do NOT draw from it. It is an "exempt asset."

Bankruptcy will NOT turn you into a credit leper. I've compared it to winning a big sum of money at the casino. The next day, the casino isn't going to keep you from gambling in the same place, because they know down to the penny the odds are on their side. They want people inside making bets - you, the person that lost the night before, it doesn't matter. Same with the consumer economy. They want you back spending money.

Most people wait too long before declaring bankruptcy. Don't do it.

Skittles

(171,715 posts)
39. yes
Tue May 4, 2021, 08:55 PM
May 2021

I remember when I was a kid, bankruptcy was considered an extraordinarily shameful thing.......times have changed; it is quite common now for people to need to declare bankruptcy due to no real fault of their own.

lilmonkey

(4 posts)
28. now watch I Care A Lot
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:35 PM
May 2021

totally agree with Thom here.

for another side of how Baby Boomers are treated (although not in as dire straits) look for the 2020 movie I Care A Lot.

still being ripped off and a further proof (as if it's needed) of how screwed up our healthcare system is.

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
33. We have a system where everyone ends up in the same state run nursing home
Tue May 4, 2021, 03:09 PM
May 2021

Sure, there are some elites who get some resort like place, but for 99.9%, even if you start out in a resort like nursing home, you end up with everyone else in a state run nursing home. They take it all until that's all you can afford.

The solution is to make sure state run nursing homes are better.

Very few people planned for elder care, because it's simply not attainable for most.

wendyb-NC

(4,691 posts)
29. Thank you, excellent article absolutely true
Tue May 4, 2021, 01:55 PM
May 2021

I can relate to everything that you said, too. Great post.

BigmanPigman

(55,137 posts)
36. I was thrilled to hear Biden say trickle down has never worked
Tue May 4, 2021, 08:13 PM
May 2021

during his state of the union address. My whole life sucked economically and mainly due to Reagunomics.

 

cinematicdiversions

(1,969 posts)
41. I read the book. Don't get divorced in your fifties unless your name is Bezos or Gates
Tue May 4, 2021, 09:00 PM
May 2021

Seems to be good advice. Almost all the people in trouble in the book had a late in life divorce that drove them to homelessness.

 

cinematicdiversions

(1,969 posts)
48. The book was non-fiction. I don't recall many if any widows
Tue May 4, 2021, 11:28 PM
May 2021

Plenty of people who had decent jobs, a house, and some savings and set it all on fire ten years before retirement.

from a review....

She also knows how to weave a tale and there are some harrowing moments while the elderly battle out of control robots, flash floods, and gangs of meth addicts in the Salton Sea. (Of note the out of control robots were in the Amazon Fulfillment Warehouse but still.)



More problematic is the stories left half told. We are introduced to plenty of people whose stories are he was a VP of product development at McDonald's she was an international lawyer then 2008 happened and now they are living out of their van. This begs for a detailed follow-up and autopsy. Why did they collapse so dramatically when others held on and pulled through? (Pro-tip Midlife crisis divorces are a bad idea)


There is also a delightful rant about minimalism by the main person she follows. There is a sense that possessions can easily start owning you as much as you own them. Yet all the van-dweller meet-ups are followed by various salesman hawking everything from magic crystals to Ginsu knives. Jessica is too kind to overtly pop the bubble of self-delusion among her subjects. She seems to stick to the facts and admires their tireless hard work and enthusiasm. One can read that as an inspirational tale or one can heed the warnings. To the author's credit, she leaves that up to you. (less)

lonely bird

(2,941 posts)
53. I suggest reading the book
Wed May 5, 2021, 08:38 AM
May 2021

It is depressing as hell but well worth it. It could be subtitled “freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”

I will watch the movie.

McKim

(2,426 posts)
54. This Posting is The Best!
Wed May 5, 2021, 09:19 AM
May 2021

This posting is the best thing I have ever read on DU. Please keep talking!!!!

dlk

(13,247 posts)
55. I saw "Nomadland" last night - it was a brilliant and heartbreaking film
Wed May 5, 2021, 09:37 AM
May 2021

Millions of Americans have paid a high price for Republicans’ politics of selfishness and the damage runs deeply throughout our country. In a democracy, the people decide the kind of country they will live in. I am more hopeful that now more Americans are truly paying attention, and there is the political will to take a different path.

 

Jetheels

(991 posts)
61. I had a terrible argument with my friend watching Nomadland.
Thu May 6, 2021, 07:25 AM
May 2021

I did not understand the term nomad. Or how Fern’s sister referred to her as like a “pioneer”.
The way I understand things is that if your living in a van, shitting in a bucket, etc, cannot afford to repair the van, cannot afford to pay to park the van in a lot at night, then you are not a nomad but you are “homeless”. My friend said I did not understand that a lot of people choose this nomad life because they like it. I also didn’t understand some of the people in the campfire circle did actually seem to be choosing this life as they said they used to be high up on the corporate ladder so must have money. One lady seemed well off and offered Fern a place to live whenever if she wanted. I think I was upset because if I were “house less”, had no money, lived in a vehicle, shit in a bucket in the van, I would not want anyone calling me a pioneer, or nomad. I think calling it nomad is romanticizing homelessness. I did not understand the movie Nomadland, suffice to say. If anyone can explain me this thank you. I think there’s a huge difference between living in a van that’s falling apart, etc, and traveling the country in a vehicle that has a lot of amenities and you can afford to park it wherever you want, can pay for repairs etc. that to me is going on vacation in=n a camper. I felt like Nomadland threw together vacationers in vehicles with homekess people in vehicles. I don’t know, I did not in any way understand Nomadland. I was upset by it. It seemed to romanticize homelessness. Also, what, in the end Fern is going to drive back to the David Stratham characters kids multi million dollar ranch? Tbh, I thought Nomadland was a colossal mess of confusion.

kcr

(15,522 posts)
62. I haven't seen the movie so I have no opinion on it, but FWIW
Thu May 6, 2021, 08:42 AM
May 2021

I read a review that pretty much said the same thing you did. I'm not sure if I want to see it.

Response to Jetheels (Reply #61)

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