I'm torn on this local newspaper article (DU poll)

[JohnnyRingo]

From NE Ohio:

I don't know, on one hand anything bad can happen without supervision, but on the other hand what's a working single mother to do? And I thought people were too lazy to work.

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25 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Time expired
	Neglect. The children should be taken away. Book her Dano!
	0 (0%)
	No harm here. This is where we get future independent adults.
	15 (60%)
	Somewhere in between.
	10 (40%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[LakeArenal]

1. The article tells me available, inexpensive childcare is the solution.

And jobs where people work full time for living wages and benefits.

[Shrike47]

13. That's my take. Mom did what she believed she had to do.

[Diamond_Dog]

14. Yep

I agree 100%

[smirkymonkey]

52. +1000

[SoonerPride]

2. When I was 7 I walked home by myself and was home alone

Until my parents got off work.

I didn’t die.

It isn’t neglect.

I was a Sentient and capable child.

I wasn’t a toddler.

[JohnnyRingo]

4. As I recall, they called them "latch key kids".

Children who got off the bus with a house key to let themselves in. They'd (hopefully) watch TV until a parent got home from work. The age was the only issue, but I know many were in grade school.

[zipplewrath]

35. Usually a tad older

All the latch key kids I knew were over 10. Interestingly, I knew kids that went home and first visited a neighbor to let them know they were home. The neighbor was always available for any immediate needs.

[Midnight Writer]

31. Me, too. Plus I was left by myself all through summer when school was out.

As were most of my friends. I never thought of it as a problem.

I'm at the other end now. I am a senior happily living by myself and there are folks that think that is a problem that needs to be "fixed".

[MerryHolidays]

3. Interesting poll on Mother's Day!

Here's an article I found on minimum legally acceptable ages where I child can be left alone:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/24/parenting-how-young-is-too-young-to-be-left-home-alone/#:~:text=Some%20states%2C%20such%20as%20California,years%20and%20Kansas%20at%20six.

There's a lot of information on this.

[Greybnk48]

5. In a country with almost zero social safety net for single moms

what the hell do people expect? Horribly expensive daycare, and very little supportive help financially. She did the very best she could under the circumstances, i.e., not being able to afford child care, but needing to buy food, pay rent or mortgage, and buy clothes and shoes for two kids.

I've been in that situation and it's not easy. Thank goodness President Biden has prioritized helping single moms and dads, because we're in critical condition. I salute the mom and kids in Ohio mentioned in the article. She's a really good mom and the kids are commendable.

[treestar]

21. +1

[MichMan]

6. Schools should all be open by now

[Scrivener7]

9. With new variants that are more contagious among young people and almost no children

vaccinated.

But who else will babysit for these kids, amiright?

[MichMan]

10. Maybe you are OK with students continuing to receive minimal education for over an entire year now.

There is no way someone can learn the entire semester of Algebra, Physics, Chemistry, or Geometry on a zoom call lasting a few hours a days. Yet, they will all be deemed to have passed and moved up to the next grade regardless.

How can one be expected to be qualified to move up to the next level of a STEM curriculum, if they only received 75% or less of the prerequisite classes? They will be behind for the remainder of their school years.

[JohnnyRingo]

12. I must admit, I would have aced every history test...

With Wikkipedia at my fingertips.
Me and the honor system were always at odds at that age.

[Generic Brad]

15. Who will they be behind?

COVID is worldwide and this has affected kids in every country. There is no one anywhere ahead of our kids over the last year.

[MichMan]

19. Wealthier kids in private schools ?

[Scrivener7]

33. Were they ahead of them or even with them in 2019?

[uponit7771]

37. Correction, the US is and a number of western nations are at the bottom end of overall handling

... of CV19 and there are a number of countries that didn't have a text book genocidal racist running it that got 500,000 people killed via lies about the lethality of the virus.

Those countries with sane leaders didn't have the school hit we did in the US


The Countries Who've Handled Coronavirus the Best – and Worst

https://www.movehub.com/blog/best-and-worst-covid-responses/

[Scrivener7]

16. Even if that were relevant or true, you are weighing learning algebra against deaths.

It isn't the case at all, but yes, I would be totally OK with kids learning algebra a year later if it keeps them from dying.

And PS, how did you learn Geometry, Algebra and Physics? It sounds like there was a lot of touching involved. Otherwise, what is different between when we sat in a desk and watched a teacher at the front of the room, and now where they sit at a desk and watch a teacher on a screen?

[Pobeka]

23. +1 n/t

[LakeArenal]

26. If parents, many of them who are home as well, want their kids to be educated....

Then they should make sure kids are studying at home.
Don’t fear monger about the state of education.

I wouldn't send my kids to school if the preparations for the new post pandemic
Schooling was complete.

All teachers and students vaccinated, smaller class sizes and great tools.

We still send kids to schools with asbestos.
That’s pretty unacceptable to begin with.

[MichMan]

29. L.A. Latino, Black students suffered deep disparities in online learning, records show

Written last summer

"The study examined the period between March 16, the Monday after schools closed, and May 22. And it described how students engaged at various levels online. For example, some students simply logged in and did little else. Others only viewed their work. Those whom the report described as “participating” were students who submitted work, took tests, posted on a discussion board or created a message.

Using that measure, the report found that on an average day only about 36% of middle and high school students participated online. About 25% logged on or viewed work only. And about 40% were absent.
But because students were not required to actively participate every day in online learning, the report also examined weekly participation — or how many students engaged online at least once a week.

Even by that measure, significant percentages of students were not actively participating in learning.

Among Latinos, who make up three-quarters of the district’s 206,000 middle and high school students, the peak weekly participation rate was 67% for middle school students and 73% for high school students. For Black students, it was 67% and 71%.

By comparison, weekly participation among the district’s 19,300 white secondary students, weekly participation peaked at 88% for middle school students and 85% for high school students.

Among Asians, who had the highest participation rates, it was 89% and 91%. They account for 8,241 students in the analysis.

Low-income students, meanwhile, lagged between 10 and 20 percentage points behind their peers from more affluent families. And among English learners, students with disabilities and those who are homeless or in foster care, peak weekly participation was 57% or lower."

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-16/latino-and-black-students-hard-hit-with-disparities-in-their-struggle-with-online-learning

[Kali]

30. are the measurements for achievement any different in terms of demographics

pre and during the past year? were low-income students lagging 10 and 20 percent behind their peers before last year?

[Lancero]

41. When the alternative is students dying?

Considering how little our nation actually cares for the safety of children - The mass amounts of kids gunned down in school shootings is proof of that - I'm not surprised that their are many who think kids dying to the virus is a worthy trade because 'freedumbs!'.

[uponit7771]

36. Right but there are red states who wont get the schools up to CDC standards

[Happy Hoosier]

7. No real harm here...

But IMO, 7 is too young to be left alone for an extended period in a regular basis.

[Bev54]

24. Too young for sure and did they open the door for the police??

How easy it could be to manipulate a 7 year old to open the door.

[niyad]

11. On-site child care for businesses would help. Had them in WWII. And some companies today do.

[Danmel]

17. A difficult situation to be sure

But 7 is too young to be left alone. If 17 is too young to be tried as an adult, 7 is too young to be home alone. No 7 year old, no matter how smart, can be expected to make decisions that might be needed in an emergency situation. It's not fair to the kids. What if something happened? Would you want the child to live with guilt the treat of its life?

[LakeArenal]

27. Their mother probably agrees with you completely.

Maybe you could go over and watch the kids for her.

[Danmel]

34. I'm a mother too

I hope she will get the help she needs. However, 7 is just too young to be left alone.

[LakeArenal]

39. That's great. So she should have.....?

And child services should do....?

[USALiberal]

43. So how young is too young for you?????

[Danmel]

46. Older than 7

[LakeArenal]

49. That's not the real issue. Yes two very young children shouldn't be alone.

But what happened happened.

And I’m asking you what she should have done? What alternatives did she have?

It’s easy to judge. Not so easy to solve.

Also, what should child services do?
Take them from her clean well stocked home and put them in foster care?

Should she quit her part time job? Go on welfare?

[USALiberal]

51. What would you have her do if they were 5? Nt

[LakeArenal]

53. Now you are circle talking. They weren't five.

We are talking about this situation.

You seem to readily judge, but seem to have no solution to a single mom choosing to work but not being able to find affordable child care other than to say it’s wrong.

[USALiberal]

54. Same issue at any age!! Get it?? Nt

[LakeArenal]

55. Do you recall what this poll is about?

Not about the age of the kids but what should happen to mom.

That is the topic. Not whether it’s wrong to leave them, that’s the given here.

But you are so focused on what you want to circle talk about that isn’t the question asked.

So unless you want to talk about the actual topic I’ll be happy to continue.

[Diamond_Dog]

18. Remember seeing this story?

This woman was arrested for child endangering.

I feel badly for her. Whatever circumstances forced her to do this, she needs help and instead is arrested.

It sounds like a Go Fund Me page has been set up and has been awesome.

And hey, Republicans, what say you, besides griping that people don’t want to work?

https://www.blackenterprise.com/120000-raised-for-shaina-bell-single-mother-arrested-for-leaving-kids-in-motel-while-she-went-to-work/

[Totally Tunsie]

20. I was a "latch key" kid starting from age 6, and an only child too.

It was me, and only me, when I got home from school. Lived to tell about it!

[TexasBushwhacker]

22. I was too, but we had a next door neighbor who was a SAHM

Her phone number was kept by the phone (pre-cell phone 1960s) and we knew we could call her or go to her in an emergency. She also had a key to our house.

[MenloParque]

25. Nowadays 7 is too young

Growing up I walked to and from school starting at age 6. I also stayed at home after school and did homework til my parents came home. Nowadays, even with child abduction very low compared to when I grew up in the 70’s, 12 seems about right given the maturity level I am seeing amongst kids in my family.

[LakeArenal]

28. Girls start babysitting at ten.

What is this mom supposed to do for the next five years. Serve jail time and turn the kids over to foster care?

Or you opening an affordable child care center?

[Kali]

32. no harm, with the caveat

that different kids are ... well, different. there are 7 year olds who are perfectly capable of staying alone or even watching a younger sibling for a few hours and there are grown ass adults who shouldn't be left unattended.

[solara]

38. I was a latch-key kid

at about the same age.. 7 or 8.. I was home from 3 - 6 on weekdays for years.. until I went to Junior High, about age 13.

I was also a passenger on Greyhound busses- by myself from Okla to Idaho and back - and trains from Okla to Texas many times.

There were people in place who looked out for kids like me. Not sure if that is still the case.

[WarGamer]

40. that's how MANY of us grew up back in the day.

[LanternWaste]

47. That's not really an argument one way or the other.

We also grew up without seatbelts in cars... saying it such doesn't make it any less absurd to argue the same in the here and now.

But maybe capitalizing 'many' makes it a valid position somehow.

[Xavier Breath]

42. People keep saying that seven is too young

to be left at home alone, but, is that in any way mitigated by the fact that there are two seven-year-olds? Is there less likely to be trouble if the two of them are taking a committee approach to the situation? Two heads are better than one, as it were?

We have no kids and I'm an only child, so I may be talking out of my ass here.

[USALiberal]

44. You are IMO! Nt

[Xavier Breath]

45. Like I said, no experience with children outside of my own childhood, so I could very well be wrong.

But, I'm going to need more info than your hit-and-run sentiment, so please enlighten me:

Why wouldn't two seven-year-olds produce a better result than one?

[JohnnyRingo]

56. Perhaps they were both tattle tales.

If either did something wrong, they knew the other one would tell mom.

The most likely case here is that they're being raised in a loving home where mom takes good care of them and garners respect for the rules. It certainly seems to have worked out so far.

I hope there's a follow up article.

[FakeNoose]

48. I believe the Mom was looking for an alternative

... but she had limited options for the time being. The Mom deserves the benefit of the doubt, and the Dad needs to be taking more responsibility in this situation as well.

[JI7]

50. This country makes things unnecessarily difficult to get by in life

Same with unemployment which they should provide to those who are able to find other work but which pays less than the job they lost.

Especially with the pandemic situation. This parent should either get financial assistance to stay home or hire someone while they work.

It's not that complicated but it's this need to make things difficult and teach people a lesson and other things just to be mean and cruel while pretending it's about making people responsible which is the problem.

[herding cats]

57. She shouldn't be in this situation.

There should be resources available to her to alleviate this ever being a thing. She's working, providing for her children and they're well and clean. The home provides all the important benchmarks for their needs. She's doing fine by the littles.

Enter Covid and a lack of a safety net for all the people like her. We just assume they can stay home and tend the children. That's simply not always true. Not every person qualifies for unemployment. It depends on if they're contract labor or not. Other times leaving a good shift where you can "normally" be home when your kids need you means losing that option you've worked years to gain. I don't know this situation, but I've seen similar and it's tough if they don't have family to help. Even with family, during the pandemic pre vaccine era it meant putting your other family at risk. There were no easy choices for many families.

I'm not judging here since the children were fine. It does, however, hurt my heart for them all. In such a well tended home I can't imagine this choice came easy, no matter the circumstances.