India. Pay attention to India.

[MineralMan]

What is happening there is a threat to all of us. Ignoring it will not help alleviate that threat.

Most of us have never been to India - one of the most crowded places on this planet. It took some time before COVID-19 really hit India, but that time is over at this point.

Here, we can get the vaccine, and many of us are doing so, but not enough of us. In the human soup that is India, new strains of the virus are evolving. Some of those may well be resistant to our vaccine immunity, and will spread in this country as well, among the unvaccinated.

This pandemic is far, far from over. It remains a real threat to everyone on the planet. We cannot ignore the outbreak in India. The reality is that the vaccines you took may well have been manufactured there. The Indians don't get the vaccines. We do.

We need to pay close attention, and do whatever we can to help in India and in other places where population densities promote the spread of this virus. If we fail to do that, it will come to bite us on the ass before long.

[roamer65]

1. I notice the news outlets are trying to bury the unfolding crisis in India.

I am seeing de-emphasis of a story that should the lead news on a daily basis.

[MerryHolidays]

5. Really? It's on CNN quite a bit (at least once or twice an hour) n/t

[roamer65]

7. I don't have CNN.

I have no American television “news” channels.

Too much opinion, not enough hard news.

I am seeing the de-emphasis on the BBC and AlJazeera English.

[irisblue]

24. BBC World Service nights to the US, on my NPR station is still talking about it.

10pm-4:30am, eastern US

[roamer65]

25. That's a good thing.

It needs a LOT more attention.

Opposition leader Rahul Gandhi said this is not an India problem, it’s a world problem.

The Congress Party needs to be back in power in India.

[BannonsLiver]

36. So you don't watch US news sources

But insist they are “burying” the India news.

[roamer65]

58. They have websites.

Channels means TV.



https://www.cnn.com/

Not a predominant story.

[BannonsLiver]

61. How would you know, you've said you don't consume US media?

The reality is the opinion expressed up thread was completely uninformed. Embarrassingly so.

[whathehell]

54. MSNBC is covering it too -- If you've no American news channels

you can't know what's on them, can you?

[mac2766]

57. I don't watch opinion based "news/sadistic entertainment" either

I prefer ABC, NBC, or CBS for my news.

[JI7]

63. It's all over BBC and Al Jazeera.

[Maxheader]

99. rad...

https://www.rt.com/news/

[TraceNC]

50. Yep. There's another thread like this

where someone claims “they” aren’t reporting the virus numbers anymore. Odd.

CNN has the graphic up every time they do a story on the virus and it’s at least once an hour. And they do talk about the threat worldwide because of the situation in India.

I never watch Fox, rarely watch MSNBC, so not sure what they cover with any regularity.

[MineralMan]

11. Not really. All are covering it fairly heavily.

However, they're not covering the threat such an outbreak poses elsewhere.

[roamer65]

14. Find the front page India story.

https://www.bbc.com/

I disagree.

They pulled this same shit in 1918-1920.

[MineralMan]

17. Straight from your link:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57027829

Other stories can be found from a link to that front page:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world/asia/india

I just scrolled a little. I highly recommend scrolling on news front pages.

[roamer65]

18. That's not the lead story.

400k daily infections and 4,000 daily deaths should be the lead story.

Lead story is about another Afghanstan bombing.

[MineralMan]

19. Do you only read one story on a news site?

Really?

[roamer65]

20. I expect an ongoing major tragedy to be lead news.

Our conversation is done since you want to make it personal.

[MineralMan]

21. OK. Whatever. Scroll a bit.

It will not be the lead story every day. It's certainly not hidden, though.

[HUAJIAO]

40. Personal?

[secondwind]

45. I agree with you.

[Claire Oh Nette]

82. The Lead story

The Lead story on India is the recent super spreader event, which is chock full o' links to other reporting on India, including a link explaining how Modi's decision to open up too soon with lax restrictions caused daily infections to go from 20,000 to 90,000 in record time.


The editors made a choice to cover the immediate bombing. it's there.

[oldsoftie]

96. It has led the CBS news almost every night

I'm sure the other networks are reporting the same manner

[Politicub]

119. I have been barely checking the news over the past few days.

It was a self-imposed news blackout. Yet I saw enough snippets of news to know about what’s happening in India.

Now that I am peeking out of my hidey-hole, it is clear this story is being covered everywhere. I’m not sure about Fox or OAN. That’s because it’s a waste of time to look, and I could care less about the right’s media bubble.

Another interesting thing I am seeing is how the story is being covered by multiple angles by tech media outlets and those media outlets that cater to businesses. Supply chain disruption is one angle that is covered heavily.

I’m not sure how you consume news. Perhaps you should expand your horizons?

[USALiberal]

132. Not true at all! Nt

[ananda]

2. Not just India.

Also Brazil and some other countries too.

[roamer65]

4. +1

[Treefrog]

3. Rec.

[dalton99a]

6. All vaccines distributed in the U.S. are manufactured in the U.S.

The raw materials, the mRNA active and lipid-based excipients, the vial filling and packaging services - all done in the U.S.

[womanofthehills]

39. Not the J & J - the reports were it was safe because it was made in Europe

Not in the US because of the contaminated vaccines at the Emergent Maryland plant.

[oldsoftie]

95. The vaccines werent contaminated, one ingredient was

That ingredient never made it to the plant the actually formulated the vaccine

[LisaL]

103. That's not accurate.

What was contaminated is the so-called "drug substance" which is the vaccine which hasn't been aliquoted into vials yet. But it certainly is the vaccine.

[DenaliDemocrat]

123. They used the plasmid vector for the AZ virus

In the J&J. Not really “contaminated”. Adulterated would be a better word.

[womanofthehills]

127. Sounds like contaminated when they caught many workers

Not following rules to shower & change clothes when switching between rooms.

[oldsoftie]

126. I stand corrected!

The first article I read mentioned the earlier issues that got the govt to give J&J control & I got them confused

[womanofthehills]

41. Also, all the early Pfizer vaccines in the US

Last edited Sun May 9, 2021, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Came from Pfizer’s Belgium plant.

[Hortensis]

8. As said, much of the world supply was to be produced by India, so that the

enormous disarray there is a grave planetary danger. And of course right now India has banned exports of all vaccines, including Covax meant to be key in a global initiative to stop the pandemic. Huge disaster.

So far, all three vaccines used in the U.S. have been manufactured here and undoubtedly will continue to be.
We're currently sending materials to India to assist their manufacture and use for others.

Of the five of vaccines developed so far in the Global West, at least three companies — Johnson & Johnson, AstraZeneca, and Novavax — licensed their technologies to Indian manufacturers as far back as last year.

Right now not happening.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/05/india-vaccine-heist-shoddy-regulatory-oversight-imperil-global-vaccine-access/

[LisaL]

9. Looks like we are about to have a lot of extra vaccines, since our anti-vaxxers are refusing to get

vaccinated. Maybe we could send them to India.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

52. What's a weird dichotomy is that trump bragged to no end

about how he personally got the vaccines to appear and wants enormous credit that feed his ego On the other hand, he denies that the virus is a big deal. His followers who won't get the vaccine were confused so just went with not real, don't need a shot.

Guess the vaccines are just meant for the non-trump-followers. Makes no sense... But thanks, I guess

[oldsoftie]

97. Yes! they insist that Trump get credit for Warp Speed;

which to some extent he does get as president, but then they spew all these conspiracies about what the vaccines REALLY are. Well then wouldnt these "trojan horse" vaccines also be trumps "fault"?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

136. The more you think about it the more irrational it is. Deaths were unreal,

They had nothing to do with covid. Remember people were dying for other reasons. If true, then we didn't even need a vaccine. And the vaccines were great. Then, once Biden got in, the vaccines are bad.

It's understandable to defend someone you are crazy about. But to deny underlying reality is a complete other thing. No wonder preaching logic and science and actual reality don't work here. We are talking about people who don't believe the sky is blue. Virus not real. Vaccines not real. Election not real. Trump taught them that. Evil personified.

[Klaralven]

10. I don't think the vaccines in the US come from India

Some of the inactive ingredient, precursors, chemicals used in manufacturing, vials, hypodermics, etc. may come from India, but not the active ingredients. The active ingredients are manufactured in the US and Europe.

On the other hand, if India collapses, many of the widely used generic and patented drugs do come from India and they may become unavailable. Many of these are for chronic diseases, and they are required for survival.

[MineralMan]

13. Thanks for that information.

[womanofthehills]

47. I read that we are supposed to get vaccines from India later this yr

Last edited Sun May 9, 2021, 08:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Their Covaxin vaccine -made more like the polio vaccine - from a killed virus.

[FalloutShelter]

12. This is what we need to keep an eye on...

From the Japanese Times

COVID-19 variant in India may be evading vaccine protection, top WHO scientist says

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/05/09/asia-pacific/who-india-covid-variant/

[DenaliDemocrat]

15. Quit fear mongering please

If you read the molecular biology, you will see that most believe it is about mutated out, that further mutations of the spike protein will render it unable to infect cells. So yes, theoretically it could further mutate, but to mutate far enough to escape the vaccines’s effectiveness would make it unable to infect the cell.

[dalton99a]

22. +1. Which is why the WHO calls B.1.617 a "variant of interest" and not a "variant of concern"

India's real problem is Modi.

--------------

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01052-7/fulltext

The Lancet | May 08, 2021
India's COVID-19 emergency

Despite warnings about the risks of superspreader events, the government allowed religious festivals to go ahead, drawing millions of people from around the country, along with huge political rallies — conspicuous for their lack of COVID-19 mitigation measures. The message that COVID-19 was essentially over also slowed the start of India's COVID-19 vaccination campaign, which has vaccinated less than 2% of the population. At the federal level, India's vaccination plan soon fell apart. The government abruptly shifted course without discussing the change in policy with states, expanding vaccination to everyone older than 18 years, draining supplies, and creating mass confusion and a market for vaccine doses in which states and hospital systems competed.

India must now pursue a two-pronged strategy. First, the botched vaccination campaign must be rationalised and implemented with all due speed. There are two immediate bottlenecks to overcome: increasing vaccine supply (some of which should come from abroad) and setting up a distribution campaign that can cover not just urban but also rural and poorer citizens, who constitute more than 65% of the population (over 800 million people) but face a desperate scarcity of public health and primary care facilities. The government must work with local and primary health-care centres that know their communities and create an equitable distribution system for the vaccine.

Second, India must reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission as much as possible while the vaccine is rolled out. As cases continue to mount, the government must publish accurate data in a timely manner, and forthrightly explain to the public what is happening and what is needed to bend the epidemic curve, including the possibility of a new federal lockdown. Genome sequencing needs to be expanded to better track, understand, and control emerging and more transmissible SARS-CoV-2 variants. Local governments have begun taking disease-containment measures, but the federal government has an essential role in explaining to the public the necessity of masking, social distancing, halting mass gatherings, voluntary quarantine, and testing. Modi's actions in attempting to stifle criticism and open discussion during the crisis are inexcusable.

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation estimates that India will see a staggering 1 million deaths from COVID-19 by Aug 1. If that outcome were to happen, Modi's Government would be responsible for presiding over a self-inflicted national catastrophe. India squandered its early successes in controlling COVID-19. Until April, the government's COVID-19 taskforce had not met in months. The consequences of that decision are clear before us, and India must now restructure its response while the crisis rages. The success of that effort will depend on the government owning up to its mistakes, providing responsible leadership and transparency, and implementing a public health response that has science at its heart.

[irisblue]

31. Modi is so similar to the Apricothellbeast, but slightly more talented.

Until the current wildfire explosion, he was well on his way to increasing tensions between Hindus & Sikhs & Muslims in his country.
Apricothellbeast authoritarian acolytes are watching and learning, waiting on the smarter hellbeast in GOP world

[roamer65]

32. I admire Sikhs.

They are running free oxygen stations at their gurdwaras in India.

God bless Sikhs everywhere.

[stopdiggin]

35. thanks for that accurate snapshot.

Also agree, it's Modi -- and his attempt to bluster (a la Trump) his way through a pandemic. It's hard to overstate just how badly the government has dropped the ball ....

[Celerity]

94. Public Health England says coronavirus variant B.1.617.2 is a variant of concern (sub-lineage, thus

the '.2' at the end, there is also a third B.1.617 sub-line, with '.3' at the end)

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/public-health-england-says-coronavirus-variant-b16172-is-variant-concern-2021-05-07/

Public Health England said on Friday that coronavirus variant B.1.617.2, which was first identified in India, would be classified as a variant of concern due to evidence it was more transmissible.

It said that the other characteristics of the variant were still being investigated.

"There is currently insufficient evidence to indicate that any of the variants recently detected in India cause more severe disease or render the vaccines currently deployed any less effective," PHE said in a statement.

WHO scientist warns of ’more contagious’ B.1.617.2 variant as SA records 4 cases

https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/who-scientist-warns-of-more-contagious-b16172-variant-as-sa-records-4-cases-ff9e21cb-a65a-474c-969a-8e0a6cddb3d9

Johannesburg - A Covid-19 variant (B.1.617.2) spreading in India is more contagious and may be dodging vaccine protections, contributing to the country's explosive outbreak, the World Health Organization's chief scientist said on Saturday.

In an interview with AFP, Soumya Swaminathan warned that "the epidemiological features that we see in India today do indicate that it's an extremely rapidly spreading variant".

The news is alarming for South Africa after Health Minister Zweli Mkhize announced on Saturday that four cases of the B.1.617.2 variant had been recorded in the country.

"The four cases of B.1.617.2 have been detected in (the provinces of) Gauteng (2) and KwaZulu-Natal (2) and all have a history of recent arrival from India," Mkhize said in a statement late Saturday.

COVID-19: UK Escalates Offshoot of B.1.617 Variant as ‘Variant of Concern’

https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/covid-19-uk-escalates-offshoot-of-b-1-617-variant-as-variant-of-concern/

The UK government has reclassified a descendant of the B.1.617 variant, which was first identified in India, as a ‘variant of concern’, from the earlier classification of ‘variant of interest’. The government said this decision was taken after a rise in cases in the UK and evidence of community transmission. The descendant refers to B.1.617.2, a sub-lineage of the B.1.617 variant. The evidence also reportedly suggests that B.1.617.2 is at least as transmissible as the B.1.1.7 variant, which was first identified in the UK. “The other characteristics of this variant are still being investigated,” the government said in a statement. The statement adds that there is currently insufficient evidence to indicate that the variants recently detected in India can cause more severe disease or render the vaccines currently deployed any less effective. Public Health England, an autonomous government organisation, is carrying out laboratory tests in collaboration with academic and international partners to “better understand the impact of the mutations on the behaviour of the virus”, the statement added. Instances of people infected with B.1.617.2 increased from 202 to 520 in the past week, the UK government added, saying almost half the cases are related to travel or contact with a traveller. The UK has already placed India on the red list, which prevents non-citizens or non-permanent residents from travelling to the country.

According to the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a ‘variant of interest’ is defined as follows:

“A variant with specific genetic markers that have been associated with changes to receptor binding, reduced neutralization by antibodies generated against previous infection or vaccination, reduced efficacy of treatments, potential diagnostic impact, or predicted increase in transmissibility or disease severity.”

The CDC has listed the B.1.617 variant and its three sub-lineages as ‘variants of interest’ in the US. The UK reclassification pertains to the second sub-lineage, B.1.617.2. A sub-lineage pertains to a branch of a branch of the virus’s mutation tree. That is, imagine the virus’s ‘original’ variant to be the tree trunk. Each new variant, like B.1.617, B.1.1.7, B.1.351 and P.1, is a branch. The B.1.617.2 sub-lineage is an offshoot of the B.1.617 branch.

A ‘variant of concern’ is defined thus:

“A variant for which there is evidence of an increase in transmissibility, more severe disease (e.g., increased hospitalizations or deaths), significant reduction in neutralization by antibodies generated during previous infection or vaccination, reduced effectiveness of treatments or vaccines, or diagnostic detection failures.”

In the US, the B.1.1.7 variant (first identified in the UK), B.1.351 (South Africa), P.1 (Brazil) and B.1.427 .429 (both in California) as ‘variants of concern’.

There is a third level, the highest – ‘variant of high consequence’, defined thus:

“A variant of high consequence has clear evidence that prevention measures or medical countermeasures (MCMs) have significantly reduced effectiveness relative to previously circulating variants.”

No variant of SARS-CoV-2 has thus far been placed in the third category.

Confirmed cases of COVID-19 variants identified in UK

Latest updates on SARS-CoV-2 variants detected in UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-variants-identified-in-uk

VUI-21APR-02 reclassified as a Variant of Concern (VOC)

Following a rise in cases in the UK and evidence of community transmission, PHE has reclassified VUI-21APR-02 (B.1.617.2, classified as a Variant Under Investigation (VUI) on 28 April) as a Variant of Concern (VOC), now known as VOC-21APR-02.

This is based on evidence which suggests this variant, first detected in India, is at least as transmissible as B.1.1.7 (the Kent variant). The other characteristics of this variant are still being investigated.

There is currently insufficient evidence to indicate that any of the variants recently detected in India cause more severe disease or render the vaccines currently deployed any less effective. PHE is carrying out laboratory testing, in collaboration with academic and international partners to better understand the impact of the mutations on the behaviour of the virus.

Cases of VOC-21APR-02 have increased to 520 from 202 over the last week and almost half the cases are related to travel or contact with a traveller. The cases are spread across the country, however, the majority of the cases are in 2 areas – the North West (predominantly Bolton) and London – and this is where we are seeing the greatest transmission.

Finally, here is a pre-print about another new VoI listed above, B.1.620, which so far does not have its origin defintively mapped, but is likely to be labelled the Lithuanian strain


Travel-driven emergence and spread of SARS-CoV-2 lineage B.1.620 with multiple VOC-like mutations and deletions in Europe

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.04.21256637v1



full paper:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.04.21256637v1.full.pdf



Unidentified coronavirus strain found in eastern Lithuania

https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1391882/unidentified-coronavirus-strain-found-in-eastern-lithuania

[womanofthehills]

128. Now there is B.1.617.2 and B.1.617.3

Mutations seem endless.

[Celerity]

139. B.1.617.2 is the nasty one so far

[Celerity]

138. WHO says India Covid variant of 'global concern'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57067190

The World Health Organization (WHO) has classified the coronavirus variant first found in India last year as a "variant of global concern". It said preliminary studies show the B.1.617 mutation spreads more easily than other variants and requires further study.

The variant has already spread to more than 30 countries, the WHO says. Three other variants from the UK, South Africa and Brazil have been given the same designation.

A mutation is elevated from a "variant of interest" to a "variant of concern" (VOC) when it shows evidence of fulfilling at least one of several criteria, including easy transmission, more severe illness, reduced neutralisation by antibodies or reduced effectiveness of treatment and vaccines.

The variant is being studied to establish whether it is responsible for a deadly surge in India, which is currently overwhelming hospitals and crematoriums. India reported 366,161 new infections and 3,754 deaths on Monday, down from record peaks. Experts say the actual figures could be far higher than reported.

snip

[TheRickles]

26. Thank you.

[roamer65]

27. Very true.

However, it is worth MAJOR lead story attention because of the failure of BJP “leadership”. People

Brazil is the same with Bolsonaro.

People are suffering and dying because of incompetent BJP politics.

[Yavin4]

34. Thank you for this.

Even if the virus does mutate, we can program the mRNA vaccines to address it. Much like getting software updates on your phone.

[BannonsLiver]

38. I'd settle for not being so painfully obvious.

But that would be a plus as well.

[ShazzieB]

51. Thanks for this information.

I did not know this, and it's wonderful to hear. Like most non-scientists, I don't know beans about molecular biology or how viruses mutate, and all I've been hearing is scary news stories about mutations and how any day now there could be a new variant that the vaccine I went to a fair amount of trouble to get may not protect me from. I try not to dwell on such things, but I haven't felt safe at all, despite being fully vaccinated.

From what you're saying, it sounds like the dangers may be so great after all. I hope I'm understanding correctly., because that would be a huge relief.

[Deminpenn]

56. +1 Thank you

Now that the mRNA vaccine technology has proven itself and along with rapid DNA/RNA sequencing and other advances, imho, that portends much more rapid vaccine development for boosters and for new diseases.

[Ferrets are Cool]

68. Wow, you have quite a low post count to be chiding one of the most revered voices

on DU.

[DenaliDemocrat]

77. Lol, so post count makes him a microbiologist?

He’s completely wrong and spouting disinformation

Lots of completely wrong people have a following. I have no idea what realm in which he is revered, but it sure the hell isn’t microbiology

On edit: if such things matter, looks like I was here 13 years before you, guess you shouldn’t be questioning me. Dudes no Kephra

[TraceNC]

93. Seriously. That's almost the same thing as

trusting someone just because they’re on TV.

But I’m new here and have a low post count, so what do I know?

(Great reply to the OP, btw. I plan to read more on that. Thanks for making me aware of it.)

[Ferrets are Cool]

108. I truly doubt you were here before me

There was this thing called "the purge" that caused many of us to lose our original names and counts. And btw, he has EARNED the right to spout whatever he wants. Unlike some others here.

[DenaliDemocrat]

109. Well, he sure hasn't earned a degree in

Biology, immunology, or virology.

BTW your argument is that even though he’s wrong from a microbiological perspective, he’s right because (wait for it) post count.

That’s some mental gymnastics there!

Just for the record, neutralizing antibodies titters post-vaccination are extremely high in non-immunocompromised individuals. There HAS been reduced neutralizing antibody activity noted in vitro in some variants, up to a 12- fold decrease. However, that is still not enough to render the two m-RNA vaccines useless and both still showed good efficacy.

In-vivo, the decrease in efficacy was even less likely due to T-cell and other antibody responses. The spike protein interacts with the ACE 2 receptor. It can only mutate so much before it cannot invade the cell.

There is no evidence real or expected that a mutation will render all of the vaccines useless. The immune system is NOT a water tap that is either on or off. This is worth noting that even in cases where efficacy against infections were reduced, the vaccines still protected against death at 100% in the trials.

[DTomlinson]

76. +1

[Skittles]

81. no, it is not fear mongering

there is still a lot of unknowns regarding Covid

[DenaliDemocrat]

83. It is fear mongering when you say that the mutations

Will render the vaccines worthless. That’s not happening and likely won’t. This is NOT a flu virus and does not mutate like one.

In addition, this poster stated that the J&J blood clotting was due to similar modes of action as birth control pills, and I had to point out that was completely wrong and almost certainly an autoimmune reaction.

He’s obviously no biologist, but he keeps pumping out these unsubstantiated opinions based upon his educated guesses.

[Skittles]

84. ".....some of those may well be resistant to our vaccine immunity"

that is a true statement

[DenaliDemocrat]

100. No it's not

Some of them may have a degree of resistance ...it’s very simple. If mutated enough to render the vaccine useless, the spike protein will be so mutated it won’t function for the virus either.

Edit: You do realize that the spike protein DNA was chosen for the vaccines for this exact reason correct? It is the mechanism how the virus enters the cell. This is why they based vaccines upon this piece of DNA. Protein molecules are folded into a shape. Mutations change the shape.

[Celerity]

107. I am still waiting for proof of that poster's huge claim

If you read the molecular biology, you will see that most believe it is about mutated out, that further mutations of the spike protein will render it unable to infect cells.

I am not a medical profession, but I am very much up to date on a lot of COVID-related medical papers (obviously not all, that would imposable). I also am personally (along with my wife) in a cutting edge Moderna variant tweaked vax clinical trial here in Sweden. We have already gotten our two vaccines (pure mRNA-1273.351 at 100 µg for both the 1st and the 2nd dose, the highest dosage of all the different arms ('arms' meaning subgroups in a vax trial).

We get the first results (we received the 2nd doses almost 2 weeks ago, on April 27th) for our various immune counts (B cells, T killer cells, T helper cells, and antibodies) this coming Friday (hopefully, lol), as we go back and give samples at Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset tomorrow morning.

We are privy to most of the cutting edge studies so far via our doctors, who have taken a lot of time to engage with us. We have been in another COVID-immunity study for almost a year now with them (we both caught original COVID back in April 2020, and have been in an immunity study since May 2020 That is how we got into the experimental vax trial, plus we matched the one of the needed cohorts: under 25yo, female, already had COVID legacy strain, reliable in terms of showing up (we never missed a blood draw), willing to sign all liability away (huge deal here), etc etc.)

The short version is (vaxxes and variants)

Moderna original vax

efficacy against the legacy strain 94%

efficacy against B.1.1.7 (UK variant) 84-85%

efficacy against B.1.351 (South African variant) around only 50-60%

efficacy against P.1 (Brazilian variant) 70-79% (studies are pretty thin)


Pfizer original (they do not yet have a variant tweaked vax in human trials)

efficacy against the legacy strain 95%

efficacy against B.1.1.7 87-89.5%

efficacy against B.1.351 72-75%

efficacy against P.1 90 or so % (studies are pretty thin, most use genetically engineered viral mimics, not wild strain P.1)


Moderna mRNA-1273.351 variant tweaked

The US preliminary results (they are 2 to 4 weeks ahead of our Swedish trial) are amazing, possibly as high as 95-96% against all variants tested for, even that nasty B.1.351, as the tweaked version raised geometric mean titers (GMT) against the wild-type, B.1.351, and P.1 variants to levels similar to or higher than the previously reported peak titers against the legacy strain.

I will keep all up to date from my end as soon as I get more results

[DenaliDemocrat]

110. You can wait until you turn to dust

I’m not going to go digging through journal articles for you.

By the way, the data you posted actually supports my argument. None of the mutations have rendered the vaccines useless, nor are the expected to.

Again, the spike protein is limited in how much it can mutate. When the tertiary structure can no longer interact with the ACE 2 receptors, it cannot enter the cell.

[Celerity]

89. This is a huge claim, please produce multiple links (as you said 'most believe') for proof. TIA

[DenaliDemocrat]

101. Go on Reddit

Join the subreddit COVID-19 and start reading. It is all peer reviewed journal articles.

It’s not my job to prove the truth to you. You likely won’t understand 90% of it anyway unless you are trained in the field

[Celerity]

105. bollocks answer (and you do not know what I am capable of understanding, how arrogant of you)

I have read both peer-reviewed and pre-print scientific articles and papers on a multiplicity of subjects, including bio-science and immunology.

Big claims require big evidence, and you providing no links is very problematic.

I always back up my positings with evidence (especially when requested to do so) and never would disdainfully insult another poster simply because they made an informational enquiry.

You come on here and slag off the OP in multiple posts, make huge claims, plus now insult me AND provide no links. That does not do wonders for your credibility at all.

You should post a few articles as a good faith gesture and let me be the judge of what I know and/or can comprehend in terms of viral mutational patterns. For example, I already am familiar with how the D614G spike protein mutation has increased the affinity of the SARS-CoV-2 virus to bind to the ACE2 enzyme (this increasing infectivity and severity), a mutation that first was discussed in the literature around mid 2020, if not before. I also know that unlike, say, influenza viruses, coronavirus are not usually subject to antigenic drift.

I do not (and never would) claim to be a pharmacology, molecular biology or biochemistry expert, but I can find my way around most papers, given a sufficient enough time-frame to acclimate myself.

[DenaliDemocrat]

113. Good for you, since you are adept at researching

It shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Therefore, let’s put this back on you, since the entirely self-evident truth seems to allude you, despite the fact that no mutations to date have shown the ability to escape every vaccine thus rendering them useless.

Please explain to me how a mutated spike protein will evade all types of antibodies, not just neutralizing, as well as evading Cell responses and memory.

That is the bullshit being touted here. To date, the mRNA vaccines have performed well even with reduced neutralizing antibody response. J&J as well. Astra Zeneca is below 50 on the SA variant.

There is cross reactivity on the flu vaccines be which experienced far greater rates of mutation.

So, you show me how that works.

[Celerity]

118. I just posted a study that showed 10.4% efficacy rate for the AZ vax versus the B.1.351 variant

Granted but one study, but it does show weakness in terms of the Non-Replicating Viral Vector family of vaccines (so far).

I am also well aware of the efficacy rates of the various vaccines against the different types of the virus (I also just posted on that down thread).

But that is not really germane to my original enquiry.

First I shall address this, though

(minus the condescending):

since the entirely self-evident truth seems to allude you

part, which is pretty dodgy from the start, as there is nothing 'self-evident' from anything you have said, other than you seem to think your utterances (backed up with nothing but personal attacks on multiple posters, apparently, and certainly with no 3rd party validation) are etched in stone and immutable facts, beyond even the realm of discussion.

which leaves

despite the fact that no mutations to date have shown the ability to escape every vaccine thus rendering them useless.

Please explain to me how a mutated spike protein will evade all types of antibodies, not just neutralizing, as well as evading Cell responses and memory.

I was not making any claims as to what so far has been spun up in the wild, in terms of mutations, ones that have already occurred.

here is headline with a key phrase in it

No virus variants can evade all antibody types, so far

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-science-idUSKBN2BB2C2

snip

Past mutations, whilst a guide and certainly a series of potential guardrails, are not always indicative of such certainty in regards to future events.

I was simply asking for proof of this very specific statement you made before:

most believe it is about mutated out, that further mutations of the spike protein will render it unable to infect cells. So yes, theoretically it could further mutate, but to mutate far enough to escape the vaccines’s effectiveness would make it unable to infect the cell.

Again, I only just wished for some links that ARE germane to that claim, including, I would hope, some robust discussions from those links as to the factors and processes that would indeed make that claim a valid one. I am including your use of 'most believe' in my enquiry as well, when I have not seen much, if any, of that discussion and its resultant claim being made/circulated in any of the various informational spaces in which I tread.

If they are out there, then that IS great news, all I want to see is some evidence that I can offer up when challenged myself. One would think that such important, ground-breaking pronouncements would be at least somewhat distributed down the informational food-chain and communicated to us ignorant, unwashed heathens that do not dwell 24-7 in niche groups on Reddit, nor are involved in cutting-edge bio-chemistry, virology, and/or molecular biology on a professional basis.

[DenaliDemocrat]

121. Please define efficacy

Eom

[Celerity]

125. Efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 Covid-19 Vaccine against the B.1.351 Variant

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214

RESULTS

Between June 24 and November 9, 2020, we enrolled 2026 HIV-negative adults (median age, 30 years); 1010 and 1011 participants received at least one dose of placebo or vaccine, respectively. Both the pseudovirus and the live-virus neutralization assays showed greater resistance to the B.1.351 variant in serum samples obtained from vaccine recipients than in samples from placebo recipients. In the primary end-point analysis, mild-to-moderate Covid-19 developed in 23 of 717 placebo recipients (3.2%) and in 19 of 750 vaccine recipients (2.5%), for an efficacy of 21.9% (95% confidence interval [CI], ?49.9 to 59.8). Among the 42 participants with Covid-19, 39 cases (95.1% of 41 with sequencing data) were caused by the B.1.351 variant; vaccine efficacy against this variant, analyzed as a secondary end point, was 10.4% (95% CI, ?76.8 to 54.8). The incidence of serious adverse events was balanced between the vaccine and placebo groups.

CONCLUSIONS

A two-dose regimen of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine did not show protection against mild-to-moderate Covid-19 due to the B.1.351 variant. (Funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and others; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04444674.

Pan African Clinical Trials Registry number, PACTR202006922165132.

snip

I have responded to you with a linked source, from one of the top medical journals on the planet.

If you still refuse to supply linked evidence that is germane to your original claim, then I truly consider this colloquy at a close, due to bad faith from your end.

[Politicub]

120. There's your issue: claiming how the pandemic is evolving is "self-evident"

You have no way of divining this information. If fact, no one does.

The fact is India is a unique Petri dish. The globe has been a Petri dish for more than a year.

Self-evident, indeed.

[DenaliDemocrat]

124. Wow. What is self evident that the spike protein

Attaches to the angiotensin receptors and that of the protein mutated to a point it no longer fits, it cannot gain entry to the cell.

I never said the epidemiology of the pandemic was self evident, just that lock and key type reactions are a fundamental of cellular biology and when the protein no longer fits, the process cannot initiate

[oldsoftie]

98. THAT is good to know. Because I had wondered about mutations

And I did wonder "if it keeps mutating, could it mutate into a version that the vaccine wont fight?"
Thank you for your post

[MineralMan]

112. Normally, I do not respond to posts like yours, but

you escalated in other posts, so here goes:

What I said was that it MAY reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine for already vaccinated people and will certainly cause more illness among unvaccinated people.

I made no claims of being a microbiologist or any other sort of scientist.

I'm not sure what triggered your response to my original post, but it appears that you may not have read it closely.

In any case, the sudden increase of COVID-19 cases in India is a serious matter of concern, not only for people in that country, but elsewhere, too. While I did learn from another poster that none of the vaccines here in the US were manufactured in India, and thanked that poster for the information, plenty of pharmaceuticals used here in the US are manufactured in India.

I am not fear mongering. I am simply pointing out that the COVID-19 pandemic is far from over, and we need to continue to pay attention to it. If you thing the outbreak in India is not of concern, then I don't know what to say to you.

[DenaliDemocrat]

115. I think your grasp of virology is awful

And this is the second time you have put out disinformation regarding these vaccines. The first being your explanation for blood clots from J&J.

India is a mess because of political nonsense. The same as Brazil. It is NOT going t happen here, especially with Biden in charge.

What is going to happen is this:

The virus has escaped into the wild. Animals are catching it. Thank God it does not mutate like the flu where each infection in an animal is a nee opportunity for a novel infection with varying results.

The unvaccinated ARE going to catch COVID, it’s inevitable. Of them, about one in 100 will die unless new drugs are found. That number may trend lower since older folks have been good at getting vaccinated. Surprisingly, studies are showing infected people still have good immunity 1 year post infection, but obviously varies from person to person.

The virus cannot mutate to a point that will make our current vaccines useless. It just doesn’t work that way. Can their effectiveness be reduced? Absolutely, however to date even with reduced antibodies, protection from death is 100%. There is more to an immune response than neutralizing antibodies.

We will have boosters that address the most common variants. Really being the British and SA strain. Most of the mutations to date are a branch off of those trees.

COVID will smolder in this country forever unless or until we get 85% immunity. Even then, with global travel it’s likely here forever.

The lesson from India is don’t elect idiots into office. What is happening there is not going to happen here

We are NOT India. We are NOT going down that path. To suggest we are is fear mongering and ignoring the science

Edit: All of our vaccines were produced here or in Europe. None of them came from India. Why would you say that?

[MineralMan]

116. What you think about my "grasp of virology" doesn't really concern me.

My post was to call attention to the state of the pandemic in India.

It served that purpose, I think.

[MerryHolidays]

129. But most everything you say is exactly the point the OP is trying to make

First, I have to say that I marvel at your detailed knowledge of the subject matter - it is quite impressive.

However, both you and the OP are saying the same things, when distilled to the essence. Perhaps there are issues with the OP, but there are equally some fundamental issues with what you are saying. To me, the fundamental point is that India DOES matter to the US and the rest of the world. It is impossible that a country of nearly 1.4 billion people wouldn't, putting aside the US-India alliance.

A few points:

1) We are not India. It is because we have someone like President Biden and are much further along per capita on vaccines in the US compared to India that there is no comparison to India.

2) However, India was far too blase about masking and distancing in the past few months. And we most definitely have that here. Put it this way: there is NO way that I will go to Texas or Florida right now, nor would I (or could I) go to India. With the greatest respect and love to our DUers from those states and others like them, I truly hope they do not come to my state (CA). Surely, you are not suggesting that Joe Biden can override our own homegrown political idiots like Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott? Modi may have massively dropped the ball, but our own fools have made it a do-or-die political issue to distance, wear a mask, and get vaccinated. You are not disputing that, are you? In some ways, the US is FAR WORSE than India, as masking and social distancing did not become an us vs. them issue there, as it clearly has here.

3) For that reason alone, that is precisely why some of our states ARE indeed like India, and perhaps far worse: no masking, no social distancing, and relatively low vaccine uptake.

4) This will help keep Covid alive in a meaningful way in the US, and I think we both agree on that. That is the issue, and as you say, 1% of infected and non-vaccinated people in the US will die.

5) I do not know how much, if any, vaccine in the US was made in India. But I don't think that's finally the point. India was contracted to supply vaccines to MANY other countries around the world (e.g., many countries in Africa), but is not fulfilling that so as to supply the Indian population. That too will help the virus, in all its awful forms, to continue and to propagate. Even if not a single dose of vaccine in the US was produced in India, this one issue has massive ramifications for both global and US pandemic continuation. As you note, global travel is impacted, and this is especially so to/from an important US commercial and strategic ally like India will be impacted for months to come, if not longer.

I have no issues with your grasp of the science, which seems to be quite prodigious. I'm just not sure why you are going after the OP and other posters, as the basic point of the OP was that what is going in India does have ramifications for the US and the world. Surely, you are not disputing that?

[IronLionZion]

117. Do you have a source for that?

I hope that's true

[malaise]

16. +1,000

What is going on in India is deadly serious for the entire planet.

[Cozmo]

23. Yes, it is!

[roamer65]

28. All thanks to Modi.

[malaise]

29. Then look at Trump's other friend

in Brazil.
They sure are birds of a feather

[roamer65]

30. Birds of fascist feather flock together.

Trump-Bolsonaro-Putin-Modi

Hitler-Mussolini-Tojo

[Bucky]

33. approaching 400,000 new Covid-19 cases daily.

Almost 4000 people dying there each day from the pandemic. As we saw in the US, the way it hits medical facilities and the ability to see doctors, the pandemic kills an additional victim by unrelated causes for every 2 or 3 who are killed by the virus. (In the US we lost 360,000 to Covid, but saw a jump of over 500,000 deaths compared to 2019. Normally the national mortality count only increases by about 40,000 per year.)

If you translate these trends to India, they could easily lose 1.5 million additional people by this time next year. Current mortality rate in India is at a historical low of 7.3 deaths per 1000 citizens each year, or about 9.5 million deaths expected for 2020. US mortality jumped about 17% because of covid-19. A similar jump in India could mean close to 11 million deaths in 2021.

They only lost 150,000 in 2020, but have lost 100k since January 1st and the rate of increase has turned sharply upwards. See Total Deaths and Daily New Deaths on Worldometers's Covid India page. That's just a measure of India's deaths by Covid. Remember that Covid's share of the jump in US deaths only accounted for 72% of our 2020 mortality increase. With India's less organized healthcare system, there might be a lot more than just a 30% increase in non-Covid deaths because of missed appointments, missed early diagnoses, and overcrowded emergency facilities.

[mucifer]

85. According to the reports on the ground from CNN there is a lot of under reporting of the deaths.

[FakeNoose]

37. I don't understand why the US Pharmas cannot share the vaccine formula

Isn't it for the good of everyone to get the vaccine distributed as quickly and efficiently as possible?

Isn't this a time when corporate profits and ROIs take a backseat to saving the human race from possible extinction?

[HUAJIAO]

44. "Isn't this a time when corporate profits and ROIs take a backseat to saving the human race

from possible extinction?"

Surely you jest..


You forgot the KA-Ching factor..

[FakeNoose]

48. Pfizer makes enough dough already

They can afford to share the formula and let the hard-hit countries like India make the vaccine for their own people. How does that hurt Pfizer anyway, if they have no interest in selling their products to India?

[HUAJIAO]

49. All pharma companies already have enough money.

I can't argue with you at all...
capitalism.. with a capital C !

[hunter]

55. The "formula" is not secret.

Any nation can declare an emergency and ignore the patents.

Building the intellectual and material infrastructure to make the vaccines is the hard part.

You can't just hop down to Home Depot to buy the equipment and call the temp agency for your scientists, engineers, and techs.

[JI7]

64. They can already manufacture vaccines. Modi gave away vaccines to other countries

instead of preparing to vaccinate the country he gave away vaccines and declared victory over covid.

[LisaL]

104. Sounds like someone we all know.

NT

[NJCher]

42. we're number one! we're number one!

total deaths U.S. 581,056
Population of U.S. 331,628,203

india total deaths: 238,270
Population of India: 1,376,640,608

We have over twice the deaths they do.

With a lower population.

Above figures taken from NY Times (deaths) and Wiki (population).

[HUAJIAO]

46. we have over 2x the deaths as India and 1/4 the population.

Doesn't that mean we are doing 8 times as badly as they are?

[mucifer]

86. If the data is accurate. There are reports that the Indian gov is not reporting all the deaths

[HUAJIAO]

87. I believe it.

And I suspect that actual deaths caused by COVID are much higher than reported world-wide, and not just through intentional under-reporting but through oversight, ,mistakes, etc....

[Marthe48]

43. My daughter's friend lost her dad

at the end of April. They are an Indian family. My daughter's friend became an American citizen a few years ago and lives here. Parents were Indian citizens living in India. The friend, who was vaccinated here, went to visit them. As I understand it, both parents had had 1 vaccination dose, or maybe just a one and done, not sure what type it was. All three of them got Covid. Friend and Mom recovered. Dad didn't make it.

Situation in India was described to my daughter as a war zone. I am heartbroken that such a wonderful person is enduring this tragedy.

I pay attention to the virus maybe more than any other news. In spite of the U.S. government and state governments and other entities saying we are beating it, and the vaccine helps, I am skeptical. I track Ohio numbers every day om the state website, and there are around 1000 new cases daily. The state has opted to update deaths about twice a week, and that number rises about 100 each update. I also track national and world numbers daily. There will be 3 million Covid-19 deaths before the end of this week. The U.S. is closing in on 600,000 recorded deaths. I don't see where things are getting better. I hope I'm a pessimist, and time proves me wrong.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

53. And what I read in Texas Trib the other day... They don't really

have a good handle on the variants in Texas because private labs have to pay a couple hundred more and it takes a week more to get the variant genome id'd so they are just not bothering.

IOW. Who knows how prevalent variants are here. Been our biggest problem since start, IMHO, lack of accurate data and little tracing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

74. Really? Why in the world would he be against it? Jeez he was

The only one with the foresight last year to shut it down ( economy) completely. Painful but it could eradicate. Hundreds of thousands of people would be alive.

[BobTheSubgenius]

60. Canada has introduced a travel ban specific to India and Pakistan.

I see it as being a bandaid "solution." It only takes Patient Zero to start the dominoes falling.

[JI7]

62. Too many people there chose religion, temples and statues over jobs, health, education

I feel bad for those that don't support Modi and his party.

But some of his own people have died and the country is better off without them.

Modi is the problem. He is spending billions on a makeover for Delhi which includes new home for prime minister .

He had over a year to prepare but declared victory.

The fact he hasn't resigned is a sign of the problems there.

As long as we have someone like Biden things should be ok here. The biggest threat everywhere is the type of leadership they have. We saw this with Trump.

[Larissa]

65. No one is free and clear until all of us are

Some of the scenes from India has brought me to tears. I read this past week about how Covid has, of course, made its way into Nepal. Yet authorities there are hesitant to confirm as much. They are not a wealthy country and had to cancel the Mt. Everest tourism last year because of Covid. There are folks at base camp actually coughing their lungs up and had to be evacuated. (BTW, different pew: but has anyone noticed what's been going on in Florida?)

From CNN, Here is a heartbreaking scene from a hospital in India. Warning: it will break your heart. With her experience as a war correspondent the journalist, Clarissa Ward, is well suited to file this report.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/05/03/overwhelmed-hospital-india-coronavirus-ward-lead-dnt-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus-intl/

[Ferrets are Cool]

67. And then there is this new threat...the black fungus

extremely scary, indeed.

[MineralMan]

71. When your body is fighting off one disease,

It's easy for an unrelated disease to move in. Fungi are very good at that.

[lastlib]

69. Former Idiot would say "aMErica FIRST!" Joe Biden is DOING something.

Pres. Biden has sent planeloads of vaccine to India, and no doubt will do more. He. Understands. the danger. Former Idiot didn't, and didn't care to learn, and only wanted to know what was in it for him. So. Damn. Glad. we have Joe Biden at the big desk now.

[MineralMan]

72. Yes!

[malaise]

70. Check this out

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/asia/india-coronavirus-cases.html

[MineralMan]

73. Yes. Explosive increase.

Horrifying. If we used wood-fired cremation pyres here, people would be screaming.

Minimizing this is a very bad idea l, it seems to me.

[DTomlinson]

75. The problem is Modi.

[Dawson Leery]

78. India's problem is it's populist despot.

The BJP has declared a jihad on everyone who is not a traditional Hindu. In addition, the Hindutva movement declared the covid crisis over in the winter. Sound familiar?

[Justice matters.]

79. The messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech & Moderna) help prevent severe illness & death.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

In early May, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was found to be more than 95% effective against severe disease or death from the variants first detected in the United Kingdom (B.1.1.7) and South Africa (B.1.351) in two studies based on real-world use of the vaccine. While the efficacy against infection varied between the two studies, both also showed the vaccine provides strong protection.

Granted, they don't protect 100% against getting infected by variants and getting mildly sick but they do provide enough quick recognition from (healthy-enough) immune systems for those who get sick don't need to be hospitalized (and won't die): They'll recover fast enough like they would recover from seasonal influenza.

As for India, the situation is alarming there, unfortunately.

[Skittles]

80. thank you

it's why I am tired of seeing DUers act as if everything is fixed two weeks after their second vaccination

[GulfCoast66]

88. No one thinks everything is fixed because we are vaccinated.

We know we are safe. So far the Pfizer vaccine I got is as effective against all different stains of the virus.
I’m not going to participate in the fear porn so popular about predicting a vaccine resistant strain is around the corner. Seems unlikely to me the way mRNA vaccines work.

Unfortunately most nations are behind us on vaccination rates. From either lack of resources or lack of leadership. Or both.

The US is approaching 50% vaccination rates. In areas that are leading the way the cases are stating to decline.

Until the US gets another 25% vaccinated we won’t have normal. Or rather we will still have unvaccinated people dying at a high rate. Once everyone who wants the vaccine can get it, those deaths are on them.

[womanofthehills]

92. Why the world's most vaccinated country is seeing an unprecedented spike in coronavirus cases

The effort initially seemed to be a success. The Seychelles stands as the most vaccinated nation on Earth, with more than 60 percent of its population fully vaccinated, more than other vaccine giants such as Israel and Britain, and almost twice the United States’ rate of vaccination.

But that success has been undermined this week as the Seychelles has found itself with its largest number of new coronavirus cases per capita, and has been forced to reinstate a number of restrictions.

So far, the number of deaths in the Seychelles attributed to the virus is relatively low — 28 out of more than 6,000 cases. But the surge in new cases may also confirm that the vaccines being used in the country have comparatively low effectiveness.

Roughly 60 percent of the doses administered in Seychelles are vaccines made by the Chinese company Sinopharm that were donated to the Seychelles by the United Arab Emirates. The remaining doses are of the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and produced by the Serum Institute of India. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/06/seychelles-vaccines-covid-cases/

[LisaL]

102. Thankfully we in US have more efficient vaccines than that.

Look at Israel. They almost entirely used Pfizer. They are having great results.

[Celerity]

114. AstraZeneca Vaccine Fails To Protect Against The South African Variant (B.1.351) 10.4% efficacy rate

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/03/17/astrazeneca-vaccine-fails-to-protect-against-the-south-african-variant/?sh=7afb868a6526

The trial evaluated the safety and the efficacy of the AstraZeneca vaccine in HIV-negative adults aged between 18 to 64 years old with a median age of 30 years old. The trial was conducted between June 24 and November 9, 2020 in South Africa using a multisite, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled approach. Out of the trial’s 750 vaccine recipients, 19 (2.5%) developed mild to moderate COVID-19 more than 14 days after the second dose, compared with 23 of 717 placebo recipients (3.2%). Of the 42 total cases of Covid-19, 39 (93%) were caused by the B.1.351 South Africa variant. These results demonstrated that the AstraZeneca vaccine was only 10.4% effective against the B.1.351 South Africa variant.

[Skittles]

130. it's not 100% effective

and there are way too many unknowns: end of story

[GulfCoast66]

135. No one expected it to be. But the numbers are stacking up.

Over 100 million Americans vaccinated. Less than 10,000 of the have caught Covid. Less than 150 have died.

That puts Covid in a risk category more associated with driving and other activities we do daily.

Once most Americans have been vaccinated they will generally be safe. Because the more people vaccinated the less people you will potentially catch it from.

Unfortunately the resistance seems to be mainly in Rural red areas. I found a map of Florida showing vaccination rates by county. The big blue counties are high. The rural areas sometimes have a less than 25% rate. So they will keep dying.

Of course we could get a resistant strain. But until then I am optimistic that Joe is correct and by July 4 we can reopen the economy.

[MineralMan]

111. Yes. I've had both shots and so has my wife.

However, we're still masking and maintaining social distance. I plan to continue that as long as the pandemic is still going on, which it definitely is.

[Treefrog]

122. I agree.

People seem to think everything is just A-OK now.

[Progressive Jones]

90. K & R

[JI7]

106. Indian Official says he doesn't care if people die as long as he survives

This guy is from the same party as Modi .


Karnataka Minister snapped at a group of doctors too. While doctors were seeking medical oxygen concentrators to meet hospital COVID-19 requirements, the minister replied by saying, "let us see when there is a third wave".

The doctors then said there are chances maybe none of us would survive the third wave. To which Karnataka Minister Katti replied, "I don't care if you survive (COVID-19) or not. I have to"

Umesh Katti had previously faced a barrage of criticism for verbally abusing a farmer and asking him to "go die". Allegedly, the said minister told a farmer to 'go die', when he questioned the government on the Public Distribution System (PDS).

When the farmer asked 'Should people die', Katti retaliated, "Go die, stop calling me", according to a then-viral audio clip. Later, Katti defended his statement to reporters, "When he says that he wanted to die, what should I reply to him?".

https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/karnataka-minister-sparks-row-says-dont-care-if-you-survive-covid-19-or-not-to-doctor.html

[Skittles]

131. that pretty much sounds like every repuke I know

yup

[dalton99a]

134. POS is probably fully vaccinated

Umesh Katti

[LanternWaste]

133. Is anyone of note or weight arguing we ignore it?

[SYFROYH]

137. "human soup" really?