It must be a slow day at the RW fake outrage factory.

[Bleacher Creature]

Link to tweet

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Rep. Cori Bush used the term and people who wanted to lose their shit about it did so.

[lame54]

2. More straw men

[Aristus]

3. Thank God there are no REAL problems in the world to be concerned about...

[Chicago1980]

4. What the hell is "birthing persons' day"

or anything else?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. It's a mocking reference to Rep. Cori Bush's understanding that not everyone who gives birth wants

to be referred to as a mother or is a woman:

Link to tweet

[Hugh_Lebowski]

10. I suppose the possibility that someone might identify

as male, yet still be able to give birth, suggests to me that we should probably redefine 'mother' as 'birthing person' (i.e. a genderless designation) or a female who's adopted children, and move on with our lives.

BTW, if you're identifying as male, what are you doing birthing children anyway?

Isn't that rather contrary to ... all kinds of things? How many males actually do this?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. Getting rid of or not using a uterus is not a requirement for being a trans man.

Giving birth isn't what makes you a woman. We don't have to "redefine" anything, but realizing that someone who gives birth might not want to be described as a mother simply expands our understanding of the world.

How many males actually do this?

I'm off to enjoy the day for a bit, but a quick google leads me to guesstimate that the global number is at least in the hundreds, if not thousands.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

13. Others can feel free to bend over backwards making accommodations for wildly obscure cases

But I probably won't anytime soon.

For one thing, I think it's very ill-advised for our party to adopt a position that essentially bans the terms 'mother' and 'father'.

Politically it's a HUGE loser, much worse than 'defund the police'.

Additionally, I kinda feel like if you're identifying as male, then don't give birth to a child unless you are okay with being referred to as the child's mother ... at least in the context of like a scientific study or demographic data or whatnot as is being referred to here.

Not trying to be ass, but really ... that is what you are.

Words have meaning.

MHO

[Claustrum]

14. I kind of agree with you.

If anything, just celebrate "Father's day" if you are a male giving birth to the child for whatever reason. We don't need to redefine Mother's day as birthing person day.

PS. I don't think the rep is trying to redefine Mother's day in any shape or form anyways.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

15. Oh, in your own life, of COURSE, do whatever you want in this regard

Celebrate Father's Day instead, call yourself the baby's father, ask your family to do the same ... absolutely!

And I agree, this extrapolation by Greta from what she said is ridiculous.

But there still is sort of an implication to what she said that I don't care for, and that is it's subtle suggestion that 'mother' is no longer an appropriate term to use (in a context like referencing statistical data of a study, as was the case here), because a tiny handful of people who give birth might not prefer to be referred to as 'the mother'.

It's just a bit over-the-top PC for my liking.

And it's a political loser, BIG TIME.

[Humanist_Activist]

19. WTF, "Over the top PC"!? Get out of here with that TERF crap. n/t

[Hugh_Lebowski]

22. If you feel there's no such thing as taking political correctness too far ...

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Because I think there is such thing.

[Humanist_Activist]

23. Really, can you give any examples? I'm burning with curiousity here.n/t

[Hugh_Lebowski]

29. Yes ...

In the context of referring to a large scientific study involving maternal and infant mortality rates among people of color, referring to the hosts of the fetuses as the 'birthing person' because you don't want to offend the probably like .001% of males who gave birth and don't prefer the term 'mother' ... is taking political correctness too far.

I hope that sated your curiosity

[Humanist_Activist]

31. Fascinating that you think more inclusive language is "too PC". That's a rather....

interesting point of view. And your argument of it "only affecting .001%" is a position that's quite common to take....among certain segments of the population who generally aren't welcome on this board.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

36. Let's turn this the other way for a moment, to illustrate the point I'm getting at here.

Black Congresswoman: "Black mothers (or women) are more than 3 times more likely to die during childbirth" (or whatever number).

Do you honestly think there is a significant number of transgender males, who've given birth, quietly sobbing and muttering "I cannot believe that woman just said 'mothers'? That is truly hurtful to me!".

Because I find it a little difficult to imagine that there's single one who would, let alone a large number who'd react that way.

Thus, what I'm really getting at here is ... I think it's wise to 'picks ones battles' in the political arena. Implying we need to divorce the concept of 'womanhood' from 'giving birth' is a hugely losing argument to make.

This isn't the proverbial hill I'd want to die on, put it like that.

You can push for it if you want, but I won't be doing so anytime soon.

As an aside, I am an admittedly coldly logical and pragmatic sort of dude by nature, and I'm sure it's to my detriment in some ways. Not trying to offend anyone, this is just how I am. Hope you can forgive me and not insinuate I'm some sort of wingnut because of it

[Humanist_Activist]

37. There is no "divorcing of the concept of womanhood with giving birth" that's all in your head.

And as an aside, those who claim to be coldly logical just lack empathy, that's nothing to brag about.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

39. Are you, or are are you not, arguing that

the use of 'mother' would be improperly non-inclusive, such that its use causes harm to someone?

Because it seems like you have been arguing that it DOES cause harm, a fact that I'm so insensitive as to be unaware of.

And if it is your argument, then it's not all in my head, because you are, de facto, arguing for "divorcing of the concept of womanhood with giving birth". That's the end result of the argument you'd be making.

Or ... is that not your point?

And I was distinctly NOT bragging. Just saying that's how I am. And I'm also very empathetic, so you're wrong on that point.

[Humanist_Activist]

43. Using different terminology to be more inclusive isn't a diminishment of the previous terminology...

the use of language isn't a zero sum game, just like how expanding civil rights doesn't diminish them for anyone else. I don't understand how that's a difficult concept to accept.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

48. When you say 'birthing persons' so that you can be 'inclusive' of 'men having babies'

you are diminishing the association between womanhood and childbirth.

I don't understand how that's a difficult concept to accept.

Anyways, done here.

Agree to disagree

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. The party is not adopting a position about banning the terms "mother" or "father".

A single rep from Missouri used the term in a tweet about birthing outcomes.

I kinda feel like if you're identifying as male, then don't give birth to a child unless you are okay with being referred to as the child's mother

Do you say this to people who have given birth and then given up those children to adoption and don't want to be referred to as mothers?

Not trying to be ass, but really ... that is what you are.

Identifying other people according to your own personal definitions in defiance of their preferences is definitely what an ass does, without even trying!

Words have meaning.

Which is why when a guy divorces the person who gave birth to his children and marries someone else, you're there to make sure the kids don't call her "mother," right?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

17. I'm not talking 'in everyday life' here, I'm talking in the context of referring to a study

as was the case here.

I made some edits to my OP to be more clear, you may not have seen.

From a scientific perspective, when you give birth, you are appropriately referred to as the 'mother' of the child. This is not my 'personal definition'.

It's not the one and only definition of mother, and I don't care if you don't want to call yourself 'the mother' if you're a male, or ask your family not to do so, or you choose to celebrate Father's Day instead. That's not what I mean, okay?

Sorry if that was unclear, I realized it belatedly and edited my post.

But IN THE CONTEXT as it was being used here? Mother is a perfectly appropriate term to use, you don't need to say 'birthing persons' unless you're trying to be (what I would call) ridiculously PC.

And it's def. not a road I want to see our Party go down, implying that in general, the term 'mother' is inappropriate because a tiny, tiny fraction of biological mothers ... would rather not be referred to as that, in any context, no matter how generalized.

It's a losing position, politically.

MHO, ymmv.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. .

From a scientific perspective, when you give birth, you are appropriately referred to as the 'mother' of the child. This is not my 'personal definition'.

Plenty of people in science and health have adopted the terms "birthing parent," "pregnant person," and other inclusive terms in academic papers, the classroom and the exam room.

But IN THE CONTEXT as it was being used here? Mother is a perfectly appropriate term to use, you don't need to say 'birthing persons' unless you're trying to be (what I would call) ridiculously PC.

"Birthing person" is also a perfectly appropriate term to use. What on earth is "ridiculously PC" about acknowledging the experiences of a wide group of people?

And it's def. not a road I want to see our Party go down, implying that in general, the term 'mother' is inappropriate because a tiny, tiny fraction of biological mothers ... would rather not be referred to as that, in any context, no matter how generalized.

Again, no one is saying anything is "inappropriate" about the word "mother."

[Hugh_Lebowski]

34. You're right it's not inappropriate to say 'birthing persons'

and if the reason she used that term is that's what the study itself says, then ... I retract most of what I said.

But politically I don't want to see us going down the road of divorcing the term 'mother' from 'a person who gives birth' as any sort of a campaign (for lack of a better word).

NOT saying that's happening, but I'm also saying ... I kinda hope it doesn't. I don't want to see a push to rename the place from 'maternity ward' to 'birthing ward' because we don't want that female association with 'giving birth' sticking around, that kind of thing. It's just not a winning position for our party, or liberals in general.

If scientists lead the way by ceasing to use the term and it kind of happens organically, then great. I'm not out to offend or belittle our transgender friends, or call them by a name they don't prefer.

But I feel it's different when you're talking at a 30,000 foot level, like with scientific studies.

[uponit7771]

18. Reps will say we are, run ads on it then dems will swear up and down we lost because of ...

... that wording despite lack of hard evidence on the words effect on voters and only 2 out of 400 dems ever mentioning it.

I've seen this movie before

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Gosh yeah that sounds like something that has never happened before, we should definitely just

only say things that Republicans agree with forever.

[Humanist_Activist]

27. No we must police our use of language to be only acceptable to white...

Male, cis gendered evangelicals.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. same same

[LanternWaste]

40. And the meanings are as viscous as are the words themselves.

"Words have meaning."

And the meanings are as viscous and imaginary as are the words themselves. Seems a rather dogmatic absolutism to pretend otherwise.

Unless of course, you believe gentlemen are both landed and genteel (insert distention lacking relevant difference below for meaningless goalpost movement)

[Bleacher Creature]

12. Ahh, that's helpful. Thanks. It just makes the outrage even dumber.

Rep. Bush was talking only about people who have medical issues while giving birth. Just referring "mothers" is too broad, since lots of women give birth without serious complications, and some mothers don't give birth. Plus, it also excludes people born as women, but who identify as men.

Again, more false outrage from Republicans.

[TheFarseer]

21. Why?

Why would you hand the RW ammunition like that? The worst thing is, there was actually a good point buried under a readymade fake outrage. And people should know better than to think the point will not totally be disregarded because of the odd phrasing.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. Calling inclusive language "RW ammunition" hurts marginalized people, so fuck that noise.

[TheFarseer]

44. It's insulting to mothers

Calling them “birthing persons”. Why not call Father’s Day “sperm donor’s day” while we’re at it? This reminds me of lefties referring to women not permitted to get an abortion as “government incubators”. It seems like birthing person reduces a mom to someone who just happened to give birth and after that who knows? Maybe she put it in a basket and floated it down the river or dropped it off at the fire station, who knows? Why not say parent if you want to be inclusive?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

45. ONCE AGAIN,

the context that Rep. Bush used the term in was exactly what you describe -- people who have given birth and "after that, who knows," because the context focused on the health outcome for the person who had given birth and the baby. No one is saying we should say "Birthing Person's Day," so "Sperm Donor's Day" is a straw man.

[TheFarseer]

47. Didn't realize she was quoting a study

If she was quoting a study, then the term is entirely appropriate and I withdraw my objection.

[jimfields33]

7. Why must everything have to be a long tongue twister?

Mother’s Day is a great day and rightfully named.

[LanternWaste]

41. Yo man, tough old world when words are too hard for you to say, eh?

Simplistic, monolingualism is a safe bet for the unimaginative.

[jimfields33]

49. Hey if it's working for you, have at it.

[Champp]

5. Do the repuqs cook this evil lying shit up on their own?

or do their a-hole russian kinkmates feed it to them?

[yellowcanine]

8. We can choose to ignore this shit. Along with all the "Wars on ......"

Seriously. This is the last time I will comment on any of this fake outrage shit.

[sanatanadharma]

9. "Birthing persons day"; Enjoy this 'festivis' day with the rest of us

Every living human is a birthed person; only some have passed birth on.

So, a celebration of everyone birthed doesn't overlook any "incredible" mothers or others.

Happy "Birthing Persons" day to all of you living and dead who make today happen, over and over again.

[Yavin4]

20. Well, when your entire policy agenda is to give Elon Musk another tax cut, you have to do something

to garner votes, right?

[Maru Kitteh]

33. Bingo.

[Solly Mack]

30. I'm so glad I was found in the cabbage patch.

Though I'm sure even that will cause conflict for someone somewhere who feels the need to be outraged about something.

No. You may not partake in my leafy green tastiness.

[hatrack]

32. Even for Greta van Xenu, that's . . . . a stretch

[PortTack]

35. Oh who cares! If my daughter would end up with a different term for the day..SO WHAT?

Why take umbrage with everything??!! Kkkeyrist..live and let live

[Wanderlust988]

38. I'm not sure why she concocted that term. It sounds stupid and totally ridiculous

BLACK WOMEN are dying giving childbirth at a disproportionate rate in this country! This is a very serious issue and problem and she is doing a disservice by calling them "birthing persons" and causing her message to get lost. Instead of talking about the issue, we're talking about this stupid "birthing person" nonsense.

[Nexus2]

42. Increasingly, the 'Right' and the 'Left' parody themselves.

[Mad_Machine76]

46. What are you saying?

EVERY DAY is a slow day at the RW fake outrage factory. They push out outrage by the bushels