An Immodest Proposal - Stop Using the Word "Fuck" to Condemn People

[MineralMan]

It's a violent, rapey reference to sexual intercourse when used that way.

As such, it helps to perpetuate the violent attitudes toward sex that are far too prevalent in our culture.

I know. I know. I'm being prudish or something. I'm not, though. When someone writes "Fuck Liz Cheney," or even "Fuck Trump," there is a secondary meaning to that statement that has sexual connotations. I realize that people who write that are not actually suggesting that the person name be violently raped, but the underlying meaning of that word suggests exactly that. It is one word. It cannot be separated from its sexual meaning so easily by the brain. It truly cannot.

That usage helps to promote violent, non-consensual sex by normalizing it. There is too much of that going on in our culture. It implies that if we don't like something or someone, the appropriate response is a violent sexual assault. Whether that is what the person saying or writing it is irrelevant. The meaning remains, and cannot be removed.

Of course, I cannot insist that the word not be used that way. I am not attempting to do that. I am just making a suggestion. I hope my suggestion will convince some to stop using that word in that way.

Thanks for reading this.

[USALiberal]

1. Many posters here love using cuss words, not sure why! Nt

[Cuthbert Allgood]

18. Psychology indicates it correlates with positive traits.

People who swear are smarter and more honest.

[Treefrog]

47. I think some believe it indicates toughness.

My mom used to say it indicates a lack of vocabulary. I’m inclined to agree. I do curse on occasion, but it’s not every other word.

[Blue_true]

68. Some studies that use of some curse words indicates a better grasp of life and

better performance in life.

[Treefrog]

92. I could point out a dozen videos of idiots who don't seem to be able to talk without using profanity

Every other word is f*** or MF. They don’t seem too bright to me.

I don’t know which “some studies” or which “some curse words” you’re referring to, but people who use the f word as noun, verb, adjective and so on all in the same sentence just sound like idiots imo.

[Blue_true]

109. You can hold on to whatever.

But studies have shown that people that use well placed profanity are more accomplished that their similarly trained and experienced counterparts.

But having said that, I do get turned off by people that use Fuck in almost every sentence. I totally get turned off when a person use the MF word even once. A person with the last name Bilzerian is an example. We went to the same university (he years after me), he is rich around $200 million and he is some type of actor and poker player of some note - but he uses Fuck is almost every sentence, use of the word seems like breathing to him, that behavior was a complete turnoff, like you, I view him as little more than an accomplished person who also is a complete jackass.

But other than that, the reality is that people that judicially use profanity have been shown to be more accomplished than their peers.

[vanlassie]

91. If you read the article, you will see otherwise.

[totodeinhere]

107. Yes people who use cuss words do so because they lack the intellectual ability to express themselves

n/t

[Walleye]

2. It's better than kill

[MineralMan]

4. There are many other words that can be used, not just those two.

The English language offers many, many words one can choose. The word choices we make are our own. I suggest we think harder before using that word in such cases.

[Probatim]

38. A business law professor in college used to say the same thing about cursing.

Something along the lines of four letter words are just words - killing someone deprives them of everything.

[piddyprints]

3. I tend to want to respond

“Uh, no thanks!” to suggestions to fuck anyone. So I’m guessing my thoughts on it coincide with yours. Thanks for saying it.

[hlthe2b]

5. I agree totally. The term in this context has come to mean VIOLENT PUNISHMENT...

for a deed or deeds considered reprehensible BUT in which the perpetrator of those deeds becomes the "victim" of the violence. Rape culture, indeed.

On edit, since it appears some on this thread are conflating the use of "f..k" as an exasperated utterance, with the use of "f..k YOU" as an angry, fury-fueled epithet, I am not mixing the two. This is not some ridiculous attempt to clean up everyone's language to puritan standards. And, yes, I have been fully guilty of using both, myself, but I fully admit the use of the latter towards someone was NOT meant to wish that they go find a mutually agreeable partner for loving sexual contact. Quite the opposite. And that the phrase signaled a violent use of sexual force is what gives it both its abusive power, but also why would should rethink.

[MineralMan]

6. Thank you. I agree.

I'm sure I have used that word myself from time to time. I am trying to remove it from my active vocabulary, though, for the reasons I mentioned. Violent sex appears everywhere these days. We need a lot less of that association, it seems to me.

[Ocelot II]

7. But "fuck" doesn't always mean "fuck." There's an interesting discourse

on that word (and others) by the linguist John McWhorter:

When you yell “Damn!” or “Fuck!,” you are not simply uttering a word. Curses are verbal ejaculations, more squawks than labels. A word is presented; a curse is squirted. This is part of why curses can be so utterly disconnected from their technical meanings. In saying “Damn!” we are not cursing in the direction of anything as if “damning” it; “Fuck!” we say when stubbing our toe, certainly not meaning “Sexual congress!” Curses are yelps clad in the guise of words, like those little chocolate bottles filled with booze. To approach these with thoughts of Godiva and Russell Stover is to miss their point, which is what’s sloshing around inside them.

The point, then, the essence, is the squawking sense of offense, our coping with a blow via the visceral and immediate gesture of swatting back to cause a compensatory offense. You level this revenge by saying something you have been told that you should not, by breaking a rule—that is, by doing something taboo. Herein lies profanity’s punch. As Carlin deftly got it across, “These words have no power. We give them this power by refusing to be free and easy with them. We give them great power over us. They really, in themselves, have no power.” In themselves, not—but curse words are ones that, while maintaining the same outward form, long ago ceased being themselves, having been vested with the power of transgression.

More here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/what-george-carlin-got-wrong-about-profanity/618786/

That is to say, when someone writes "Fuck Mitch McConnell!" (or some other miscreant GOPer), they are not expressing even the faintest desire to get horizontal with Moscow Mitch (eww!), but yelping one of the more frowned-upon words in the English language - expressing as strongly as possible with a single word a "sense of offense." I just finished McWhorter's book Nine Nasty Words, which this article excerpts. It's a fascinating discussion of the origins and evolving meanings of various profanities.

[MineralMan]

23. There is no difference in the unconscious brain, though.

It associates words with actions, but not on a conscious level. In the limbic system of the brain, the word "fuck" is always associated with violence and sex. No discrimination takes place at that level.

I am familiar with the discussions you mention. However, I am also familiar with how the limbic system handles words.

[Ocelot II]

31. McWhorter would disagree. I recommend his book, not just because of "fuck,"

but because of his analysis of how the brain processes words and how we assign meanings to them. When I yell "Fuck!" when I drop something on my foot I am not thinking about sex, even subconsciously. I am using a forbidden word because it's forbidden. I knew "fuck" was a very bad word long before I knew what it meant; its very forbiddenness is what stuck in my child mind, not its sexual connotation, and I remain aware of its forbiddenness to this day by avoiding the use of it except among (some) friends. Interestingly, it's gradually becoming less taboo. According to McWhorter, there are three categories of profanity: religious cursing, words relating to bodily functions, and ethnic/racial/gender slurs. Centuries ago the worst profanity were words related to religion: damn, hell, goddamn. These are now considered to be only mild cursing. Later, body function words like shit and fuck could not be spoken in polite company, or even written. But starting in about the 90s, those words became less shocking, and now the worst words are insults against people, which are now so taboo you can't even write them except with dashes or asterisks. So I won't, but you know what they are.

Anyhow, I will continue to yell "fuck!" when I stub my toe, and I might also venture to suggest forthrightly that The Former Guy and others of his ilk should commit a physical impossibility.

[localroger]

40. [citation needed] /nt

[scrabblequeen40]

41. How can we know what the unconscious brain does?

What evidence is there to suggest widespread use of the word fuck is associated with violence? I get its association with sex. Some people say fuck in non-aggressive ways such as when uttering fuck as part of sex talk while engaging in the act in a mutually respectful, loving way between two aroused partners.

Sadly rape is universal, crossing many cultures, including those that do not use the English word fuck. Is there evidence that the omission of fuck in those cultures results in less violence and rape?

[VarryOn]

8. I've successfully virtually eliminated it from my language...

After an intentional effort started about 20 years ago. Frankly, in the corporate world where I spend my time, the HR goons will eventually pay you a visit after you're reported by some anonymously offended coworker. I've seen it happen more than once.

I guess I've gotten so sensitive to it, my wife and I had to stop a new Netflix series we started because the f-word was gratuitous. I told her we were officially getting to be ol' foggies!

I wouldn't mind less coarness in rhetoric.

[Dial H For Hero]

9. Agreed 100%.

[bigtree]

10. this is just nonsense

...it's simply untrue that the only, or most prominent, definition of 'fuck' is rape.

You've taken your own narrow prudence and misappropriated it to this nebulous phrase. You say you accept that it's not used in that context, but your sensitive sensibilities can't countenance other contexts of the word other than your own, so you want it disused altogether.

This disconnect is a function of what we called the 'generation gap,' a concept that was coined when I was a teen. You're simply out of your own lane and you want people behind you to follow along anyway.

[obamanut2012]

48. This

[beaglelover]

49. Agree. I love the word Fuck and am not ashamed to admit that!

[Blue_true]

71. Yes. A well aimed F-bomb is a potent rhetorical tool.

Anyone demanding that I stop using it is barking up the wrong tree.

[Sur Zobra]

63. Well said

I 100%agree with you.

[Blue_true]

69. I am exactly where you are on the issue.

The word HAS NOT historically been used in the context of rape. In fact, it’s one use in regards to sex alludes to good consensual sex between two adults.

[Mosby]

74. Exactly right, the phrase "fuck this shit"

Has no sexual connotations, conscious or unconscious.

What bugs me are sexual connotations that ARE violent, like "I'd kill it" or I'd hit it".

[DenaliDemocrat]

102. Wow! Vafaunculo would probably have him faint dead away!

I hope he doesn’t speak Italian

[Beastly Boy]

11. I dunno. I would give DUers some credit for being able to tell the literate from the figurative.

For example, I am pretty sure that no one would take the phrase "Trump is a fucking idiot" to mean "Trump is an idiot who is engaging in a sex act", or "I don't give a fuck" to mean "I refuse to engage in sex".

[Ocelot II]

14. Yup. See post #7.

[Beastly Boy]

21. When I was a kid, I witnessed a pretty meaningful extended conversation between two kids.

It consisted of an exchange of a single phrase, and it went something like this: "Fuck you!"... No, fuck you!"... "No, fuck you!"... It continued for quite a while, and each time the phrase was uttered, it meant something slightly different than what it meant previously. As minimalist performance art, it was quite avant-garde. You can tell it made quite an impression on me: I still remember it many years later.

[boston bean]

12. This feels like trolling.

I will not give up saying or typing the word fuck.

Because it is used as a term of exasperation. It does not mean SEX in far too many expressions to state the word should not be used period.

This is ridiculous. Fucking ridiculous since you asked.

[Ocelot II]

15. Exactly. "Fuck" in the context of angry expostulation doesn't have anything to do

with sex or rape. We say it because it's one of the most profane words in our language; using it is a transgressive expression of disapproval that can't be set forth effectively with an acceptable word. Because it's profane we might not want to say it in front of Grandma, but I can't think of a better way of exploding in verbal anger. Gonna keep doing it.

[DEbluedude]

25. Precisely.

Profanity, at times, provides relief where prayer doesn't.

[Paladin]

27. A-fucking-men. (nt)

[treestar]

34. bingo, it is profane because it referred to sex

which says a lot about our society's view of sex.

[LexVegas]

29. ...

[USALiberal]

99. Lol, lighten up! Nt

[gay texan]

13. ....

[smirkymonkey]

80. M'Kay Republicans!

I have to admit, the South Park team came up with some brilliant musical numbers.

[dalton99a]

16. And "fucking"/"bloody". I'd say let's ban all R-rated language

One must strive to make DU a pleasant place to peruse political issues for people of all ages from 1 to 101

[Layzeebeaver]

17. Whilst your request is acceptable

And I will make all effort to assure I comply in my postings… your statement of:

“That usage helps to promote violent, non-consensual sex by normalizing it”

…Is a personal opinion unless there is some scientific evidence to back it up.

[Paladin]

19. Sorry, MM. Right-wing spies will dine out on your "No Fuck" post for weeks.

They make up stuff to accuse us of "Woke" tendencies. No sense in handing material to them.

[MineralMan]

24. They are welcome to do as they please.

They have been doing that for a very long time with what I write here. At least they notice it.

[Tracer]

20. In my opinion, the constant use of fuck in posts...

... has completely lost it's ability to surprise or shock. It's now just a boring verb, or –––depending on the use, a boring adjective.

[marie999]

22. The word is used so often that when a person uses it now it is meaningless.

To me, it shows a lack of thought. It is an easy word to use which means the person using it does not want to bother using their intellect. It also shows a lack of civility.

[Blue_true]

73. Actually, studies show that the people that do use it moderately are

very much capable of and DO think at a high level. Since I use the F-bomb some, I was glad of such studies, not that I needed confirmation of my intellect (I have a proven track record that has shown me that)

[Towlie]

26. People like you who complain about taboo words should be thanked for reinforcing their value.

 
←

We should be thankful to those who act shocked and object to the usage of certain words, and to those who partially conceal them by substituting punctuation marks in place of some of their letters. Without their objections, those words would fail to satisfactorily serve their vital purpose of conveying extraordinarily strong feelings, which would compromise the versatility of our language.

So you deserve thanks for helping to reinforce the value of that particular word and you should be encouraged to continue complaining about other words that shock or offend you. Keep in mind that it's a never-ending task as our language evolves. (Consider that it wasn't long ago that to say something or someone "sucks" was a reference to oral sex and was therefore taboo, yet today it's rapidly becoming acceptable.)

[pwb]

28. So how do you call pukes fucking assholes?

I will keep using the word because it amplifies ignorance and stupidity IMO. The Sex part of your request seems a stretch today.

[BlueTsunami2018]

30. Fuck this.

Seriously, I know you mean well but come on. I’m really starting to hate that every single thing people say has to be analyzed and homogenized to make sure no one can ever take them the wrong way or be upset. I have never considered those phrases to mean anything resembling what you’re proclaiming them to now mean. And I’m never going to. When I say “fuck you” or “fuck so and so” I do not mean that I want to have violent, forced sex with the person, place or thing that I’m flipping off. It’s just ridiculous now. Taking the fun out of or being offended by every single thing used to be the job of the right wing “moral majority”.

Can we please lighten up?

[treestar]

32. It says a whole lot about our society

that the same word can mean sex and to violently condemn, or screw (that word is used both ways too). It says much about society's view of sex being the old Don Juan version of a man getting something from a woman and then having convinced her, leaving her. The Spanish word in the Don Juan plays was "deceived." Women weren't supposed to give it to men, and a man who convinced her he'd marry her but then after he got it said hahahaha not is the model here. To some extent we still see it that way - the man got away with something and the women got used.

[Iggo]

33. Fuck that.

Now try and turn that into a rape reference.

[dalton99a]

37. +1. This woman desperately wanted to have intercourse with the president:

[Jirel]

35. Fuck that.

Cuss words are words of violence in one way or another. All are problematic. So is the fucking gendered English goddamned language, in general. As long as I speak English, I will cuss if I choose, in full knowledge that no version is free of baggage.

[jalan48]

36. LOL

[Voltaire2]

39. Also: get off my fucking lawn.

[PatSeg]

42. The word has become so overused,

it barely means anything anymore. It lost its impact years ago and now it has become an all-purpose word that often indicates a lack of imagination and resourcefulness. It certainly has lost its stature as the premier swear word and barely elicits any shock at all these days. I notice that on TV and in movies, they compensate for that lost shock value by just repeating it more.

So many times there is no sexual implications at all. It is just a go-to word for people who can't be bothered to come up with something more fitting a situation or person. The past few years, I've noticed that hardcore Trumpers use it constantly, sometimes two or three times in one sentence. That was the final straw and I've made a conscious effort to stop using the word. It still slips out now and then, but now it is more out of habit and has no real punch to it.

[Xoan]

43. Oh Lordy ...

spare me the faux outrage.

[milestogo]

44. And can we stop using "motherfucker" too?

Think about what is being said.

[MineralMan]

45. That's not a word I ever use, actually.

As you say, all you have to do is think about it.

[Bucky]

75. Also, let's quit calling someone we dislike a "slack-jawed, booger-eating pigfucker" it's insulting

...to those decent people who happen to be slack-jawed and enjoy eating boogers and fucking pigs.

[Initech]

46. Shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker and tits.

[obamanut2012]

50. Jesus Motherfucking Christ

[Crunchy Frog]

51. Here, have a Randy Rainbow song.

[roamer65]

52. Don't forget to eliminate it in your next version of your Newspeak dictionary.

Last edited Wed May 12, 2021, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Double plus unfuckinggood.

[Midnight Writer]

53. So where's the line? May I say "screw Mitch"? How about "Mitch sucks"?

Is it better to say SNASU then SNAFU?

[MineralMan]

55. The F in SNAFU can easily be "Fouled"

[obamanut2012]

78. Except it doesn't mean "fouled," it means "fucked"

What the everloving hell is this Orwellian shit, man.

[BGBD]

54. Fuck off

[Crunchy Frog]

93. "How shall we fuck off oh Lord?"

(Monty Python reference.)

[DenaliDemocrat]

56. What the fuck?

Why would I fucking do that?

[roamer65]

57. You are fucking right.

Why would I fucking do that?

Absofuckinglutely.

[DenaliDemocrat]

58. Fucking-A!

You fucking know it!

[roamer65]

59. Abraham Lincoln quote...

“It has been my experience that folks who have no vices, have very few virtues.”

[11 Bravo]

60. Well, this went just about as one might expect.

[DenaliDemocrat]

62. Is there a fucking problem with that?

This is kind of fun!

Lol. According to MM, that rhetorical question actually means I am questioning someone’s ability to perform sexually.

I’m agree, this feels like a troll.

[Blue_true]

76. As expected when a word is twisted into something that it never has been. nt

[AngryOldDem]

61. For me the word is a way to channel my frustration, and yes, anger, sadness, and despair

That’s about all I’ve got as I watch this daily slow-motion train wreck/Dumpster fire of a country. I consider it the linguistic equivalent of a fist through a wall. Is it the best reaction? YMMV.

There is no sexual connotation AT ALL when I use it. Maybe my brain is wired differently than what you assume.

[smirkymonkey]

86. I agree. Sometimes, it is the only word that can properly express the depth of anger or

frustration I am feeling. I suppose we could always go with the very British "Bloody" instead, but it just doesn't feel natural to me.

And I NEVER think of it as a sexual term when I use it. I use it to make the meaning of what I am saying as extra as possible.

[roamer65]

89. Absofuckinglutely.

[NYC Liberal]

64. No.

[LanternWaste]

65. After having read that...

After having read that you moved to another seat in an airplane simply because a young girl's wardrobe was "too sexualized" and offended you, I'm not surprised at all that your response to hearing someone say "fuck off" compels you to infer non-consensual sex, rape, and violence.

Just try not to project that kind of thinking onto other people in the future, as not everyone has the My Pillow Guy standard of what constitutes discussion on a message board.

[MineralMan]

66. Airport, not airplane.

Your memory of that ancient post is faulty.

[Blue_true]

79. Airport seat, airplane seat, what is the difference? nt

[obamanut2012]

82. I actually gasped when I read what Lanternwaste wrote

I guess the girl's "dirtypillows" were too exposed and slutty/ Good lord.

[Blue_true]

85. Hopefully the old post was mid-read.

Honestly, it would take me 150 years to think of sex when I am looking at a girl, regardless of how she is dressed. It just doesn’t come into my mind.

[obamanut2012]

81. Wait, you moved because a young lady was dressed too "Jezebel"?

What's your last name in Gilead, Commander.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

67. I agree it's over-used, diluting the intended impact, but I disagree on one point: ...

"Fuck" does not mean "Rape".

"Fuck" can be consensual. I hope it always is.

[roamer65]

88. THIS.

[scrabblequeen40]

96. yup. eom.

[Lancero]

70. It's the connections your mind make, but not everyone...

Perhaps you should deal with your own, innate, perversions rather than push them onto other people?

[Blue_true]

83. Great post.

When I use “Fuck”, the absolute last thought that comes to my mind is about sex, least still rape.

[obamanut2012]

84. Read what Lanternwaste posted upthread

[Bucky]

72. Fuck comes from a Middle English word meaning to "strike" or to "hit"

.

People who use it to mean swive or fornicate are sexualizing the term gratuitously, not the fuckers.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Silly

If I could unrec an OP, I would use it here.

[Blue_true]

87. You can hide it.

How are things going? I haven’t seen around in a few weeks, got a lot of stuff done during that time though (DU can be addictive for me).

[Celerity]

90. no

[Beringia]

94. Do you tell teenagers not to swear too? Geez

[BlueStater]

95. You've typed some good, thoughtful posts before.

This is not one of them.

I guess they can’t all be winners.

[tonedevil]

97. It really is the all purpose word...

this scene from The Wire demonstrates:

[CrackityJones75]

100. would like to go one fucking hour

would like to go one fucking hour here on this site without being asked or told what to do.

It is a joke.

And it is usually the same people making the demands.

[BannonsLiver]

101. Stuff like this is why we lose.

[Arazi]

103. Wait, isn't this early on the regular DU cuss word schedule? #confused

[argyl]

104. There's something my Mom used to say.

" Don't say ain't 'cause ain't ain't even in the dictionary."

And at the time it wasn't. It was associated with stupidity, particularly if you were from the South.

A number of years ago i took down a Merriam Webster and there was ain't. Not described as some word used by the stupid but an alternative to other contractions.
Language evolves. It always has and always will. I don't own a hard dictionary anymore but if fuck hasn't already made it as something other than a violent, sexual act, it will.
I like using a well placed fuck on occasion. If I say " Fuck you" to someone violently raping them it the last thing I want with them.
I pepper my speech with a " fuck" from time to time. It's like a spice that gives language a little flavor.
And as often as it's used now the shock value has, or should have, been blunted a bit.

[NanceGreggs]

105. ...

"It's a violent, rapey reference to sexual intercourse when used that way."

No, it's not - or maybe you just forgot to use the thingy when you posted that?

[Texasgal]

106. Oh Good GRIEF!

FUCK THAT!

[Raine]

108. I'm guilty, today in a post I said Liz should f*#k off. It was to emphasize that my disgust

for her hasn't changed. I don't like excessive obscenities and though I use them in private I never do in public. I don't subject others to it because it can be offensive and that's all they're going to hear..

Also I think hearing protesters on TV screaming constant obscenities ruins the message and sounds ignorant, it's a real turn off to hear.