I was wrong, votes weren't flipped or prevented from being counted in 2016.

[Eliot Rosewater]

I said for 4 years that I simply did not believe traitor got more votes in those 4 states than Hillary, but I was wrong. If I am to believe this last election was valid and there was no election or voter fraud, then I have to believe it consistently.

Now, those who said crap like "I will vote for her but hold my nose" and other shit like that, can you admit you were wrong?

Relentlessly TRASHING her, repeating bullshit about her, convinced how many NOT to vote? Just because someone votes for her but then trashes her, causes so much damage.

So sad.

[cate94]

1. I understand

However, I wonder about the consistency of Republican projection. I also wonder about the fact that the voting machines are not all the same manufacturer. No one seems to have any questions other than Dominion, why?

[brush]

2. I still believe there were shenanigans in those 3 statee "won" by just enough votes...

after trump's plane was routed to them at the last minute. Never trust republican operatives.

[brooklynite]

8. So the State of PA, under Democratic Governor Wolf, cheated?

I’ll mention that to Democratic Attorney General Josh Shapiro the next time I see him.

[brush]

10. Thousands of ballots from Detroit, a majority Black city, turned up with no mark...

for president. Highly, highly unlikely. Cheating happens.

[brooklynite]

18. And the Democratic Governor, Democratic AG and Democratic SoS have done nothing?

Isn’t it strange that Republicans could rig the vote in 2016 but not in 2018?

[brush]

20. Let me get this straight. You seem to be contending that republicans gave up...

cheating and rigging votes after Carl Rove was not in the picture? Come on. You're not new to the game. The GOP is continually coming up with ways to suppress Dem votes...during election season and not (see all the new laws being passed to limit POC votes now). They don't stop, but they're not always successful because we don't stop trying to get out our vote to combat their cheating.

[brooklynite]

21. No, I'm contending that vote rigging hasn't happened.

Rigging of voting machines has been a throwaway explanation for losing elections since 2004. I say its a false conspiracy theory for the following reasons:

1. As I said, it goes against the results. If voting machines could be rigged in election A, they could be rigged in election B. But Republicans who won in 2004, 2010, 2014 and 2016 lost in 2006, 2008, 2012 2018 and 2020.

2. A vote-rigging conspiracy would be incredibly complex to arrange. It would involve politicians, programmers, engineers, technicians and funders to carry off, and supposedly its existed for almost 20 years. Keeping a secret for that period is extremely unlikely.

3. Unlike most people here, I actually talk to political leaders. Following the 2004 Election claims, I asked the Director of the Ohio Democratic Party; she said it didn't happen. For that matter, NO losing candidate, Party official or Campaign manager says it has happened.

4. If Republicans could rig voting results, they wouldn't feel the need to keep trying to steal elections the old way.

[brush]

30. Doesn't the Detroit situation with thousands of ballots having no mark...

for the top of the ticket seem suspicious to you?

[brooklynite]

31. It doesn't seem suspicious to the Democratic Attorney General...I'll follow her lead.

[Ms. Toad]

3. A factual assertion is, by definition, right or wrong.

A vote for Clinton with my nose held is still a vote for Clinton. And - more relevant - is an opinion. While you may disagree with an opinion, the opinion itself is neither right nor wrong.

[questionseverything]

4. Just because one election is legitimate doesn't mean every election has been legit

There’s nothing wrong with hand counting paper ballots in full public view (that’s not what is happening in az)

We also didn’t get that transparency in ‘16

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. oh believe me, I still have harsh opinions about all that, but for now I am trying to be consistent

[questionseverything]

9. You shouldn't be consistent when the facts imputed are different

[ShazamIam]

5. In 2016 all the red states and all those battleground states with Republican governors purged their

voter registration lists, the voter purges are then followed up with ballot disqualification. Vote flipping is to messy and inconvenient.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. And is happening again. It is war as far as I am concerned.

[ismnotwasm]

11. I just remember that debacle with complete disgust.

Hillary Clinton had the potential to be the greatest president we ever had. It took a lot to bring her down, but it happened. I’m still salty.

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. People on the left who oppose her cant really tell you why, at least not with facts.

She would have been almost identical to what Joe is now, so unless they want to now TRASH Joe, they are just full of shit.

[StevieM]

15. They convinced themselves that it was like voting for Joe Lieberman.

Younger Americans would be shocked to learn that it the 1990s she was considered the champion of the liberal wing of the party.

[betsuni]

19. A career dedicated to equality, children's rights, child care, universal health care,

paid sick leave, racial justice, equal pay, and much more wiped out with the word "establishment" and false accusations of some sort of vague corruption because people contributed to her campaign or there were PACs that wanted to help elect her. Those fucking idiots that believed it.

They pretended the Roosevelt's were their big progressive non-establishment heroes and here's what populist hero Teddy Roosevelt said when criticized for taking large corporate contributions and refusing to give them back, that if they were freely given who cares, it is "entirely legitimate to accept contributions, no matter how large."

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. Exactly, thank you for this response

Exactly, thank you for this response

Most of those people still believe the ridiculous nonsense about Hillary, for her to get their vote or for her to get their vote gladly and without being trashed repeatedly she had to be perfect, she had to be a perfect human being

[stillcool]

13. I have a certain amount of faith in

the election process in my state. We use paper, and we do an audit of a percentage of the vote....but since 2000, I have had no faith in the elections of certain states. It only gets worse as the years go by. I remember reading that the point of exit polls was used to determine fraud. But not in this country. In this country exit polls are wrong, and should be done away with. Whenever a Democrat wins I assume their vote total was astronomical.

[tritsofme]

14. The cognitive dissonance required to think otherwise is astounding.

[boston bean]

16. There was cheating. Cheating with the ruskies.

[catbyte]

17. He might have won, but I'll go to my grave believing he & the GQP stole Michigan.

Too many skeevy things happening. At the time, we had a GQP Governor, Secretary of State, Attorney General. They dominated the Michigan Supreme Court and had both houses of the legislature, the Senate with a veto-proof majority (which didn't matter but there you have it.)

In the months leading up to the election, The Secretary of State threw 187,000 voters off the rolls in the Detroit Metro area without much explanation. Court cases were denied.

Former guy received a little over 13,000 more votes than Clinton out of approximately 7.5 million. There was a recount that the Attorney General sued to stop when former guy's lead dwindled to 10.7K.

There was too much sleazy stuff in 2016. The result?

Michigan now has a Democratic Governor, SOS, AG, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, the State House lost GQP seats. and the Senate lost its veto-proof majority. We also passed an anti-gerrymandering prop and enshrined strengthened voting rights into the State Constitution. Oh, all that was in 2018, but in 2020 we flipped the State Supreme Court, yay!

The GQP is battling mightily to restrict our right to vote. Gee, I wonder why?!?

[Demsrule86]

25. They used voter suppression...but many did not vote in Michigan. I did outreach and Hillary was

disliked because of NAFTA (her husband not her) the TPP...look what is happening now...GM moving another plant in Ohio overseas and nothing is being done about it. People who go from good jobs to no jobs get angry.

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. Good point

[RegularJam]

22. This defies logic.

“ If I am to believe this last election was valid and there was no election or voter fraud, then I have to believe it consistently.”

It’s s seriously damaging thought process I wish you would reconsider.

It is also a highly inconsistent thought process, not consistent.

[Demsrule86]

24. You are wrong.

[RegularJam]

26. Deep thought but I am not.

In any way.

[Demsrule86]

23. I know. I believed it too...in PA particularly. It was statistically impossible for those results

for Trump in the rural districts...only it wasn't. He got pretty much the same numbers this time. I was wrong also. But the difference between 'us and them' is that when the election was called, we accepted the results. And the Woman's March ( I was there with my oldest daughter) was the opening salvo in the fight to reclaim our country...not an insurrection. They were willing to allow Democracy to end in order to retain power...dreadful dreadful people...traitors to this nation.

[Autumn]

27. Anyone who voted for Hillary was not wrong. I have voted for many politicians in my life that

I did not like but held my nose to vote for them. No one is going to fall in love with every politician that comes along. So sad is right.