Let's discuss second-guessing the CDC...

[brooklynite]

For the past year, we've been calling out people who questioned or disputed the science-based directives on how to deal with the COVID pandemic (sheltering at home, avoiding groups, wearing masks, hand-washing etc.). Yesterday, CDC updated their guidance on the need to wear masks in most cases. What did we get?

My humble opinion. CDC is lifting Mask and social distancing too soon.

Why didn't the CDC just say if your state hits 70% vaccination

Thoughts pls on the CDC just saying fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks...

You are free to wear a mask, or continue staying and working at home if you want to. But if you're questioning the timing and guidance from the scientists, perhaps ask yourself why?

[Sherman A1]

1. Perhaps people are questioning the revised guidance

out of genuine concern for their safety and the safety of their loved ones. People have every right to do so without being second guessed.

and I would add this......

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215429282

[Demsrule86]

2. Well you can't complain about the other side questioning the CDC if we do it too...

[Celerity]

4. +1

[GulfCoast66]

7. Yep. Nailed it. Some liberals have obviously politicized masks as much as anti maskers.

It is not surprising after all the conservative anti maskers we’ve dealt with that wearing masks has been internalize as a liberal value and it is hard to give that up regardless of what evidence shows us.

I’ve been as vigilant as anyone about following science and the CDC guidelines because of it. But for a month I’ve been waiting for this change as it becomes obvious how good the vaccines are. Masks are nothing but a mitigation tool. Once I was safe I could not wait to stop wearing them.

[Hugin]

8. The other side wasn't questioning the CDC's guidelines...

They were actively dictating what those guidelines should be.

I know it's a nuance, but, that is why people who put caution above convenience are cautiously approaching the new guidelines.

[tanyev]

14. Questioning the CDC and refusing to wear a mask is everyone's problem.

Questioning the CDC and continuing to wear a mask is no one's problem but the mask wearer.

[cinematicdiversions]

46. No one is saying you can't wear a mask

They are just saying it is mo longer necessary.

[Klaralven]

17. The other side doesn't question the CDC; they dismiss them without questioning.

[Sherman A1]

47. I was not aware I was complaining about the other

Side questioning the CDC or anything else for that matter. I was responding to the OP.

[Mister Ed]

3. My guess as to the reason for wariness:

There's always room for concern that a government agency like this is being influenced not purely by science, but also by political pressure.

The pressure exerted on the CDC by the Trump administration was heavy-handed and plain to see. There's every reason to believe that the Biden administration would not exert political pressure on the CDC, but I imagine that for many, some residual wariness may remain.

[consider_this]

11. YES...

I am more interested in science than CDC recommendations. As pointed out in other threads, and my own recollection, there were several times they gave guidelines that did not align with the science (masks not needed, masks not protective of wearer, etc.) so it is not a surprise that for many they are not the be all and end all of reliable guidance, so therefore doubts are not surprising.

[consider_this]

5. I want to know...

How were the statistics of breakthrough cases (very low, like 150 out of a million) evaluated. Was the statistical group people who had the shot and went about with no masks and social distancing, or were they also doing those protective measures? My guess it is the latter, which if so, give a false efficacy statistic to the vaccine alone. If I can hear that the statistic was derived from people whose only protective measure was the vaccine, then i will personally feel safe following the CDC guideline.
Of course as many others here, I have no doubt that this will allow the 'mask hole' continent to run amok with impunity. I can see that as a real concern for the public health in general.

[mucifer]

24. When 99.75% of those hospitalized with covid were NOT vaccinated we have evidence. LINK:

The Cleveland Clinic on Tuesday released a study showing that 99.75% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 between Jan. 1 and April 13 were not fully vaccinated, according to data provided to Axios.

Why it matters: Real-world evidence continues to show coronavirus vaccines are effective at keeping people from dying and out of hospitals. The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been found to be 95% and 94% effective, respectively, at preventing symptomatic infections.

Details: The study also looked at 47,000 Cleveland Clinic employees who had received one shot, both shots or no shots at all.

https://www.axios.com/study-hospitalized-coronavirus-patients-unvaccinated-7ed34f63-fd1d-437c-b4b7-0c1dd3600a15.html

Science!!

[uponit7771]

31. +1,

[womanofthehills]

52. Quote the article you posted correctly - it says NOT Fully vaccinated

[womanofthehills]

48. The CDC just announced they will NO LONGER keep or release numbers on vaccine breakthroughs

Only breakthroughs of those hospitalized or deceased. Why?? It’s too much trouble for them? And what’s with their Director going on Rachel’s show and saying breakthroughs don’t exist and then having to take her words back the next day?

[liberal_mama]

92. I wonder why they aren't going to release the number of vaccine breakthroughs anymore?

I would like to know that information.

[Crunchy Frog]

98. Wow. I was not aware of that. Deliberate lack of transparency doesn't tend to lead to trust.

Certainly not with me.

[Heart666]

102. I first read about that from anti-vax, anti-mask Republicans

I thought that were FOS.

But, then, I looked it up. And it was actually true.

I was shocked beyond words.

[Crunchy Frog]

97. I've been wondering that exact same thing.

[Captain Stern]

6. We always trust the science.....

.....when it agrees with what we already think.

Other times, maybe not so much.

[sarisataka]

26. This,

So much this...

[hardluck]

44. The human condition

It’s hard to objectively evaluate your preconceived ideas. This is as regular occurrence here as it is in the real world.

[womanofthehills]

51. What's "the science" ????

So CDC says vaccinated don’t need masks just when new more spreadable variants from India arrive in US and the variants might to some degree evade vaccines. Science?? Hello? England is dealing with this right now with the B.1.617.2 variant.


Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, the technical lead of the World Health Organization’s coronavirus response, said a study of a limited number of patients, which had not yet been peer-reviewed, suggested that antibodies from vaccines or infections with other variants might not be quite as effective against B.1.617. The agency said, however, that vaccines were likely to remain potent enough to provide protection from serious illness and death.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/world/uk-covid-india.html

[Captain Stern]

64. Same quote, with different bolded words.

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, the technical lead of the World Health Organization’s coronavirus response, said a study of a limited number of patients, which had not yet been peer-reviewed, suggested that antibodies from vaccines or infections with other variants might not be quite as effective against B.1.617. The agency said, however, that vaccines were likely to remain potent enough to provide protection from serious illness and death.

I guess it's a glass half-full vs half-empty sort of thing.

[Celerity]

95. +100

[Bullfeathers]

9. I plan on

Wearing my mask 😷 indefinitely when I use public transporting or go shopping. I haven’t been sick in a year and I like it LOL

[EarlG]

10. Is it fair to say that

this has been a really tough, scary year for everyone, and maybe it’s going to take a little time before people are psychologically ready to “get back to normal?”

I think there is something to the fact that for the past year, it’s been really easy to tell the difference between who is taking the pandemic seriously and who isn’t. If you’re masked, you’re a good citizen; if you’re not, you’re a selfish maskhole. People don’t want to be perceived as selfish maskholes.

So it’s not going to be a smooth transition from wearing masks to not wearing masks. There will be some natural friction between the science which shows that vaccinated people are almost entirely protected, vs. the social situation that the pandemic created.

Plus, it’s not that easy to let go of fears you’ve been living with for more than a year. Without wishing to make any kind of diagnosis (I’m not a psychologist), perhaps when folks on this board question the CDC’s new guidelines it comes less from a place of anti-science, and more from a place of anxiety, maybe even a little PTSD. We’ve all been through hell this past year, and what it’s done to us psychologically still remains to be seen. It’s going to take a little time before everyone is ready to get back to “normal.”

Edited to add: I count myself in this group. I’m as pro-science as they come, and rushed to get the vaccine as soon as it was available. I’m not opposed to the CDC’s guidelines. But even when I’m officially fully vaccinated in two weeks, the thought of taking my mask off in public spaces like the grocery store still makes me feel uncomfortable. I’ll get over it, but it’s going to take a little bit of time.

[Doc Sportello]

21. Well said

This explains a lot of my feelings. The problem is the headline of "no more mask mandate" is going to be taken by the unvaccinated maskholes as applying to them too.

[Hugin]

25. Yep...

This is pretty much where I am at the present time.

I'll walk up and peek over the edge of the chasm before I leap.

[uponit7771]

32. "I'll get over it, but it's going to take a little bit of time." 👈🏾

[niyad]

37. Very well said, EarlG.

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

80. Fantastic response

Summed up my thoughts well.

[kcr]

87. I have dreams where I'm out in public and I've forgotten my mask

It's definitely going to take a while to get comfortable with the idea that it's okay to not wear a mask in public again.

[usedtobedemgurl]

100. I'm not the only one?

I have had dreams all the time, of entering a public place without a mask! All of a sudden I realize I forgot to put it on , and I am filled with fear and panic!!!

[CentralMass]

12. As of 5/12 35.4% of the U.S. population has been vaccinated.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html&ved=2ahUKEwjb_ZuSkcnwAhXLrJ4KHUAVB_EQFjAKegQIIxAC&usg=AOvVaw1lVMyO4IxskHbkEN1uzIGz

So a few points that come to mind with the stat that 35.4% of the country has been vaccinated.

1. The CDC updated guideline jumped the shark. There are clearly still areas in the country where wearing a mask should be required. While business and institution can have their own requirements, the new CDC guideline under cut such attempts. It also gives open license for those who refuse to get vaccinated to enter environments where they previously had to mask unmasked.

My phone is about to die. I will add more later.

[boston bean]

13. Why do vaccinated people have to wear mask and social distance at hospitals doctors offices and

medical facilities? I suspect doctors and nurses will wear ppe with all patients even though they are vaccinated.

Last year we were told by the CDC only medical,professionals needed to wear masks. That was not the case.

So, why again are they being given different direction than the rest of us plebes?

[Klaralven]

16. Your risk is the product of the breakthrough rate and the probability of exposure

The breakthrough rate is probably about 10% for the mRNA vaccines and maybe about 30% for J&J. Possibly these will go higher as variants arrive.

Since sick people go to medical facilities, your probability of exposure there is higher than at, e.g., Home Depot.

And Covid aside, there are all sorts of nasty bugs floating around medical facilities. More infection control is needed there for a variety of reasons.

[boston bean]

19. So, we are guinea pigs again. They have no idea about variants or what this new recommendation

Means risks are for the general public as there are so many unvaccinated. They really do not.

We shall see.

[Klaralven]

23. We'll be back to masks next Fall

I expect a pandemic of subclinical Covid among vaccinated non-masked populations, contagion from there to the unvaccinated populations, followed by vaccine breakthroughs by new imported variants from India, Southeast Asia, etc.

"Survival of the fittest virus" predicts that more and more contagious forms will spread faster and farther than less contagious forms.

[boston bean]

27. We will never go back to masks.

And that tells me there are political considerations.

[Hugin]

28. Hey, Klaralven...

This post and the one previously are the most reasonable discussion of the situation I've read today.

Nice going. So refreshing. Thanks.

[liberal_mama]

91. I agree! You have to constantly read between the lines of the mixed messages from the CDC

When the CDC said we didn't need to wear masks early in the pandemic, I immediately started wearing a mask in public. I knew if the masks would protect healthcare workers and doctors working with Covid patients, they would protect me when I was grocery shopping. A lot of the guidelines don't seem logical to me.

[JCMach1]

15. I masked when I saw one of the top Korean doctors saying how Covid

aerosolizes at the beginning of March, 2020.

This time CDC is ahead of the curve so to speak, but trusting science applies both ways.

Except when required, I am done with the mask.

[Ms. Toad]

57. Umm, no.

They are, as they have consistently as to transmission, taking the riskier position. That doesn't out them ahead of the curve it means they consistently underestimate this virus, and overestimate the willingness of US residents to do what is right to prevent it.

[LisaL]

18. Why?

Their previous "guidance" wasn't exactly perfect, was it?
Those would be the same scientists that told us to wash surfaces and hands non stop (for an airborne disease).
And I will stop second guessing when CDC can assure me that everybody going around maskless is actually vaccinated.

[RobinA]

75. I Think What They Are Saying

is that the vaccination works and the fully vaccinated don't need masks. The unvaccinated need masks so they don't get it and/or spread it to the unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated and meet someone unvaccinated you are good. No vaccine is 100%, but we aren't walking around wearing masks to avoid measles. What any individual who is vaccinated needs to feel comfortable is up to them.

[Autumn]

20. I will continute to wear a mask in public gatherings and while shopping

because the vaccination status of other people, particularly Republicans, is not known.

[GulfCoast66]

99. I respect that and will still wear mine where required. Or if I feel uncomfortable.

But I have a serious question. 30% of Americans will not get the vaccine. If 4 months from now the current data that shows vaccinated people are at almost no risk is still true, will you still mask up?

I ask be if the data remains the same, wearing a mask will only protect the willingly unvaccinated.

[Autumn]

101. I'm in an area that is very Republican and a lot of people here would not mask up, or wear it

under their nose. Just being idiots, and pretty sure from reading the community pages a lot won't vccinate. I'm not sure covid will be erradicated. I've seen what damage even a mild case can do and it seems it may be possible to get it even after being vaccinated, depending on the vaccination recieved. I think I will continue to mask.

[Mysterian]

22. Riiiiight. Erring on the side of precaution is exactly the same as dismissing the science completely

Sure. Both sides are the same. Whatever.

[uponit7771]

33. BINGO

[bullwinkle428]

29. Dr. Fauci : "Don't loosen restrictions until cases drop below 10,000 per day"

He made this statement on 3/4/2021, so I think the apprehension on the part of some here is totally understandable.

For the record, our daily case rate is around 36,000. Continuing to drop, for sure, but still some ways from 10,000.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

[TraceNC]

30. False equivalence.

At least when it comes to motive and intentions.

The covid deniers, anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, etc. were questioning the CDC and putting the health and lives of others at risk.

People questioning the CDC over relaxing the mask guidance are erring on the side of caution, for their own protection and that of others.

I think it’s a stretch to put those in the second group along with the first group whose motivation is all about “you’re not the boss of me” and “my liberty is being trampled!”

[StarryNite]

81. Exactly

[sarisataka]

34. The irony is not whether or not to wear a mask

As you said, a person is free to wear a mask if they wish.

The irony is parroting the exact same excuses the antimask folks have been using to doubt the CDC. Excuses we have been ridiculing until now.

[Arkansas Granny]

35. The latest figures for Arkansas show 28 1/2% of the population fully vaccinated and a positivity

rate of 6.6%. I thought that the desired positivity rate was considered to be 5% or less before all restrictions were lifted.

I will continue to wear a mask if I'm in a public situation until those numbers look a little better.

[wiggs]

36. The CDC provides guidelines for masses of people, on a large scale, for purposes of general

public health. It can't possibly issue guidelines that fit every household, every individual, every location.

As it has always been during covid each person should read more than the CDC guidelines to fully understand the situation and determine best course of action for themselves...and I think erring on the side of caution during a worsening global pandemic is not just wise, it's common sense.

And still sends a message to those not vaccinated. And guards against the fastest growing, most transmissible variants now being studied based on weeks old data. And keeps from spreading virus to those not vaccinated. And keeps yourself and household from becoming a laboratory for more variants.

We won't fully understand this virus and its various effects on people for years....but each week we think we know enough to make life and death decisions and draw finely tuned lines between too much risk and statistically not enough to be concerned about?

We've loosened considerably since vaccination but masks stay on when around others. Not too difficult for us

[wiggs]

42. Also science

Link to tweet

[doc03]

38. The CDC and President Biden say if you are

vaccinated you no longer need to wear one. That's good enough for me the mask is gone

[Johnny2X2X]

39. Me too

I think keeping a mask mandate at this point would have just been to get non vaccinated people to wear them, they've done the math and it says this is OK now, so I trust them. And I definitely trust our President.

[doc03]

84. I spoke too soon Ohio is still requiring masks

until June 2nd.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

40. My main problem is other reasons prior statements were made.

Early on we were told to not worry about the masks and we found out that was because they didn't want a shortage for medical providers. OK, cool, I get we don't want a shortage, but tell us that.

I trust science, but what if this newest change is mostly for giving those who haven't vaccinated a reason to want to vaccinate.

[fescuerescue]

50. Yea that has made me distrust them since the beginning

That was an outright lie meant to manipulate people.

I'm sure it wasn't their last one.

[seaglass]

41. Did I miss the CDC statement that fully vaxed people can't pass the virus on to others? Why would I

risk my 13 day old grandchild who cannot get vaccinated? Mask wearing initially was to protect others, then it was discovered that masks also protected the wearer.

6 ft of space required, then 3 ft was ok. Wash your groceries, sterilize surfaces, then don't bother.

I am completely open to the fact that the CDC doesn't know everything and that when more is learned guidance changes - this IS believing in science, allowing for errors and continued learning.

Again, until the CDC can unequivocally state (and I may have missed it) that vaxed people cannot pass on the virus I will continue to wear a mask inside around people I don't know.

[Doc Sportello]

43. Sanjay Gupta just said there was a lot of discussion at the CDC about this

In other words the decision it wasn't a slam dunk among the scientists at the CDC. So your premise about posters here not trusting the science and implying they are hypocrites is flawed. Perhaps you can ask yourself why.

[LisaL]

45. Add to that, we were just told that we need to keep on wearing masks because of variants.

Well, has anything changed? No. Variants are still spreading. So why would we not need to wear masks anymore? I think CDC's guidance to stop wearing masks is not smart.

[RobinA]

76. On The Other Hand

Dr. Gupta doesn't say what a lot of discussion at the CDC was about. The science? The reaction? The message being sent? Will the unvaccinated ever get it if we take away the masks? So we don't know what wasn't a slam dunk. Public health, quite frankly, cannot be easy.

[fescuerescue]

49. Well it was the CDC that originally said that masks don't work

So I've been second guessing them ever since that announcement.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

54. Especially because that wasn't about newly discovered scientific knowledge

but an attempt to stop a shortage of masks.

[fescuerescue]

55. the CDC shouldn't be playing inventory management

for Amazon and Wallmart and other suppliers.

[LisaL]

66. Yep. But they did.

NT

[liberal_mama]

94. They should have just admitted that masks work, but they didn't want a shortage for medical workers!

Lives could have been saved. Many people already had masks on hand in their basements or garages. Or people could have made their own. They should have never lied about the situation.

[jcgoldie]

53. Agreed

We've been preaching to follow the science for a year and now we are going to say "well yeah but those guys are jumping the gun"? It was one thing to question the motives under Redfield and Trump but we should probably trust that the Biden administration is making these decisions seriously and earnestly.

[CentralMass]

65. The reality of the decision will be proved out empirically.

As others have pointed out, the CDC has earned the distrust that some people including myself have of it. I support science but I don't jumped to hasty conclusions.
As of 2 days ago only 35.4% of the U.S. population has been vaccinated. IMO we still don't know the long term efficacy of the vaccines. The CDC couldn't even wait for the country to meet it's own previously stated metrics. I believe this was a political decision.
I will continue to wear a mask indoor in public situations and will carry one while outdoors and continue to social distance. I will avoid prolonged indoor events. These things harm no one.

[jcgoldie]

71. No one is saying people shouldnt wear masks if they feel comfortable

The post was about 2nd guessing CDC guidelines. Personally I’ll follow the guidelines and happily leave the mask in the truck whenever I can and attend outdoor concerts and events this summer if things havent changed. I dont need a mask to distinguish me from Trumpers Im perfectly comfortable with who I am.

[CentralMass]

72. I find that logic a little twisted. I have zero concern for tRumpers or politic or what anyone else

thinks about my personal decisions. I sense that this was a political decision.

[Ms. Toad]

56. Maybe, just maybe, it is because they have been dead wrong on the science of transmission

Multiple times during the pandemic, including waiting for 3 months into this administration to finally acknowledge aerosolized transmission (known for more than a year).

Questioning the CDC isn't questioning science, it is questioning whether the CDC is actually following science.

The same as i did when they (against then-known science recommended against masks), the same as i did when, after acknowledging that masks worked they (against then-known science)insisted they did not protect the wearer, the same as I did 3 months into the Biden administration and had not yet acknowledged aerosolized transmission (against science known for mire than a year)

My record of knowing the actual science of transmission is far more accurate than the CDC's proclamations about it. Feel free to fact check me on that. It's ask here on DU.

[LisaL]

58. Exactly.

They've been wrong multiple times during the pandemic.
We have just been told to continue to wear masks because variants are spreading. Nothing changed. Variants are still spreading.

[Ms. Toad]

79. I'm not personally worried about the variants -

Because of how the vaccines are made I expect the vaccines (at least the mRNA ones) to provide equivalent protection. I intentionally sought out an mRNA vaccine (and all of my family members have also had an mRNA vaccine).

I'm concerned about the fact that I live in a county in which only 45% of the residents have started getting vaccinated (so far fewer actually vaccinated), and we are still categorized as a very high risk based on prevalence of cases.

Vaccines are not perfect. So the more potentially COVID-causing exposures, the more likely that vaccinated people will be involved in catching and transmitting COVID.

5% of a very large number is still a significant risk.
5% of a very large number, reduced by mask wearing, reduced by a low number of residents with COVID, reduced by a high number of people with 75-95% protection is a much smaller risk.

My standard is - would I take/recommend others take the current risk with polio because, at its worst, everything I see suggests COVID poses that grave a risk.

My answer is "no." Not until the cases are cut by 60% (at least) and until the number vaccinated grows by at least 60%.

ETA - and what really bothers me most is that sending the message that going without masks is just fine (by removing mask orders), we are pretty dramatically increasing the risk for individuals who cannot be vaccinated (children under 12, those with contraindications to vaccination, and those who can take the vaccination but whose immune system is not adequate to create immunity)

[Niagara]

59. How many times did the CDC backtrack their statements?

Too damn many times.


For example, around February of 2020, the CDC stated that wearing a mask was ineffective since the particles of the virus were too small and that we needed to save the masks for medical providers. Had they not made that statement, more people would be alive today.




Some of us had to wait forever to get a Covid vaccine because we were under the age of 65, were considered non-essential and truth be told, I had a difficult time finding a place that provided the Pfizer vaccine. I will get my 2nd dose in 3 more days, so I'm not fully vaccinated yet. Once I am fully vaccinated, I will still be wearing a mask in indoor public areas and will not be visiting with people who are not fully vaccinated. My life, my rules.


I believe it's too soon to be encouraging people to go maskless and to terminate social distancing in large groups.


You are free to take the mask off and act like it's party time if you want to. We lost too many people from this preventable disaster because we received misinformation since the beginning of the pandemic from the agency that was suppose to be protecting us. I will never apologize for being wary about my health and the health of others.

[brooklynite]

60. How many times did it happen in the Biden Administration?

FWIW - I won't be "partying"; I'll be living an ordinary life under the guidance of science.

[CentralMass]

68. It is happening now.

[brooklynite]

70. Explain?

[Niagara]

73. Only a month ago, the CDC recommended taking precautions

for the fully vaccinated by wearing masks and socially distancing. Why was that?



The CDEC found that a rare 5,800 fully vaccinated persons have been infected with Covid. I realize that it's small number compared to the numbers that were being infected before we had the vaccines. However, a month ago, they didn't know why or know the pattern and now we're suppose to stop taking precautions only a month later?


No one should be shamed for wanting to take extra precautions by wearing a mask or continue to socially distance. If they want to take extra precautions, they should be able to do so without specifically being called out or being accused of not believing in science.



https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/health/breakthrough-infections-covid-vaccines-cdc/index.html

[Zeitghost]

93. Because

The CDC defaults to a more cautious position and then relaxes as more information comes in that warrants it.

[LanternWaste]

86. It does not follow.

That being an inference or premise that does not follow from the premise responded to...

FWIW, one does not need to wear a mask to understand logical fallacies. So wear one or don't (your choice, of course) when if you decide to further understand logical fallacies (again, your choice).

[mcar]

61. The CDC is following the science; I follow the CDC guidelines

I, too, find it interesting that we suddenly have people who doubt the science and the guidelines.

[cinematicdiversions]

62. Because they have turned we a ring a mask into a way to

Signal I am a good person. Honestly some people don't want to give up the moral superiority they feel when they are in a social situation wearing a mask.

[Sympthsical]

63. I'd rather be overly cautious than overly careless

My partner and I are both fully vaccinated. Yesterday was his birthday, so I decided to take him to a nice restaurant we’ve both been meaning to try.

Easily 80-90% capacity, 50-60 maskless people indoors.

Newp Newp Newp!

We got a table outside off to the side.

Vaccinated people can still get Covid, and we still don’t know the long term effects of having the virus. There are already signs of long term complications.

My caution costs both me and you nothing. I’ll wear my mask and socially distance for a while yet. My choice. And unlike the anti-maskers, my choice harms no one.

[USALiberal]

69. Nice hit and run! Nt

[brooklynite]

74. Please elaborate...

[chowder66]

77. I love how the immunocompromised keep getting left out of this discussion.

Many of us will need to continue masking up per the CDC guidelines.

And now I have to worry about others thinking the following;

You are too cautious.
You are trying to act morally superior.
You don't believe in the CDC recommendations.

Of which none of those apply to us.


Thanks we really appreciate your fucking support.

[Niagara]

85. Don't worry about what others think about

you wearing a mask for that extra protection. You do what you feel you need to do to protect yourself.



Anyone who shames, ridicules, scoffs at or mocks another person for their believes is using a bullying tactic. I'm surprised that this thread was allowed to stand and it tells me everything that I need to know about the OP. It wasn't even a discussion; it was an inappropriate insult.

[chowder66]

88. Thanks. I'm just frustrated. nt

[Niagara]

89. I understand.

[chowder66]

90. I appreciate you for that. nt

[roamer65]

78. There are other viruses that WILL make a comeback with closer contact between people.

Influenza and noroviruses are the prime candidates.

I plan on trying to avoid that coming surge.

The CDC is only issuing guidance on SARS-CoV-2 in this instance.

[egduj]

83. Mask wearing is a political rally point for Democrats.

So it's only natural that if someone says masks are no longer necessary, whether they be scientists or not, there's going to be some pushback.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. There have been plenty of things that I've questioned the CDC about, over the years,

including before Drumph.

In any event, science is an ongoing process, not a pronouncement of absolute truth. It is definitely not a pronouncement by an authority or an organization, even if they are a scientist or run by scientists.

I trust science to be the most effective process that we have for understanding the natural world. That doesn't mean that I trust it to be an oracle of absolute truth.

I don't trust CDC guidelines to be free of influence by political and social considerations.

There are also many scientists outside the CDC who have differing opinions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/upshot/epidemiologists-coronavirus-masks.html

[Meowmee]

103. Lets discuss

How the cdc is not infallible and in this case and in other past recommendations is not following science.

1- numbers of infections are still too high
2- vaccination levels are still too low
3- variants which can overcome some of the vaccines are present here


It is too soon to stop masking.

In addition there is no system for establishing who is actually vaccinated and no plan/ policy to stop the non vaccinated from going without masks in required areas. So the whole thing is a joke because now anyone who doesn't want to will not wear a mask whether vaccinated or not. Several large businesses have already stated vaccinated people will not be required to wear masks and they also have no policy to determine who is vaccinated etc.

The cdc and many others including Fauci said masks would not protect the wearer, and would not prevent spread either early on, both of which are false. Many knew it was false when they said it.

It also shouldn’t have to be said that under dump the cdc lied about numerous things regarding covid and as I recall some there were involved in helping the administration in concealing data of covid infections. It appears that may happen again since I read they were not going to report all break through infections in vaccinated people now.

Sadly many of their decisions have not had the interest of protecting the public in mind and were designed to control the situation with certain numbers of deaths now acceptable, which would have been outrageous pre pandemic.

A true scientist will tell you that science itself is not infallible, it is constantly in flux being questioned and changing/ evolving. Smart people evaluate and question such decisions as this one.

[Bettie]

104. I'll still wear a mask inside

and probably not outside.

Next time the seasonal crud is going around, I'll wear one every time I'm out because I've enjoyed not being sick at all for the last year or so.