I'll Take 'White Supremacist Hand Gestures' for $1,000

[cinematicdiversions]

How hundreds of “Jeopardy!” contestants talked themselves into a baseless conspiracy theory — and won’t be talked out of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/business/media/jeopardy-hand-gesture-maga-conspiracy.html

It is an ironclad rule of the private Facebook group of past “Jeopardy!” contestants that nobody post about that night’s episode before 11 p.m. Eastern time, to avoid spoiling the show for West Coast viewers.

So the moderators of the group waited until 11 p.m. sharp on April 27 to reassure the roughly 2,800 fellow members that they had the crisis in hand. They had seen a contestant on that night’s show, a big white guy with a red tie, Kelly Donohue, make an odd gesture with three fingers of his right hand. “Based on the evidence we’ve seen being bandied about elsewhere, there is a real possibility he was giving either a white power or a Three Percenter hand gesture,” wrote one moderator, a middle-school teacher who was on the show about five years ago, according to screenshots provided by another group member. And though “we can’t know his intent,” he continued, “we’re not here to provide safe harbor for white supremacists.”

They weren’t the only ones who noticed the gesture. About 50 viewers had tweeted about it, suggesting variously that it was a symbol of the Ku Klux Klan or of QAnon. And “Jeopardy!” contestants searching Mr. Donohue’s personal Facebook page saw what they considered other, damning evidence, including a picture of Mr. Donohue in a red MAGA hat. One leading member of the group wrote up a public letter. Another emailed the Anti-Defamation League to report the incident.

I should stress again that these are smart people, who were in general more polite than the journalists who reluctantly take my calls most weeks. And that, I think, is the point here. The contestants’ investigations of Mr. Donohue had all the signal traits of a normal social media hunt gone awry — largely, that you assume your conclusion and go looking for evidence. And they followed the deep partisan grooves of contemporary politics, in which liberals believed the absolute worst of a Trump supporter. But they also contained a thread of real conspiracy thinking — not just that racism is a source of Trumpian politics, but that apparently ordinary people are communicating through secret signals. It reflects a depth of alienation among Americans, in which our warring tribes squint through the fog at one another for mysterious and abstruse signs of malice.




A group of by self selected definition smart people are taken in my a baseless conspiracy theory that doesn;t hold up to a minute's reflection. Really shows the power of social media tuning even the smartest among us into idiots.

[hlthe2b]

1. Maybe, just maybe the producers of the show should be aware of inadvertent, yet readily

concerning gestures that guests should be made aware--and perhaps edit out when it comes to their attention. These shows are taped. A little societal awareness and proactive response could have avoided all this. I'd bet the producers on that show are not all oblivious Luddites/Hermits who pay no attention to politics, or current events.

[Scrivener7]

2. The Times is using the Snopes article as proof that this was NOT a white power symbol.

Snopes says Stephen Miller was not throwing a white power symbol. So there's that...

The article says it's the number three. It's a very awkward number three, and he didn't do the weird thing with his fingers when he did number one or two. When you see a MAGA hat and that hand symbol, whether Snopes believes it or not, it's not a stretch to assume it's a white power symbol.

I guess the press needs it's counterpart for the Q insanity, and this is what they are choosing. Wrongly.

But also, your posts seem to be following a very interesting pattern.

I think your slip is showing.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

7. It's NOT an awkward number three.

Watch some basketball.

[Scrivener7]

9. It's a totally awkward number three. Made by a guy who is smart enough to know what the

gesture means since Stephen Miller and friends adopted it.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

12. So you don't watch basketball?

It's the normal 3 there. And in sports it makes sense since it is distinct from 2 even if you don't see all 3 fingers.

[Scrivener7]

13. OK. Now look again at how the guy does it and how Stephen Miller does it exactly the same,

with the hand sideways across the chest.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

14. You mean just how he did 2 the day before and 1 the day before that?

He knows what the framing of the shot is going to be.

[Scrivener7]

16. No, actually, not like the 2 or the 1. When he did those, his fingers were upright and not

held to his chest.

And do you think this $80,000 Jeopardy winner doesn't know about the MAGA white power symbol?

[TheFarseer]

61. A guy on my fave team

Does the 3 fingers up gesture just like that only held high when he hits one. In fact he’s giving that gesture on the team poster. I’m sick of white supremacists stealing perfectly good gestures. By next year I won’t be able to take a pee without someone saying it’s a white supremacy thing. I’ll just have to hold it all day.

[kcr]

42. It drives me crazy that Snopes is treated as foolproof evidence

When there's nothing special about it. It's no different from any other news source on the internet. But somehow it gained and retained its mythical status as the internet fact arbiter. It's ridiculous.

[marble falls]

3. What don't you get about the racist hand signal he threw? Why do you think insulting those ...

... of us who saw it clearly proves your point?

[ExciteBike66]

5. Because there is a more logical and benign explanation for it...

If you saw his previous two shows, he put up one and then two fingers to show how many wins he had.

Perhaps he had a diabolical scheme to win three shows so that he could do a racist hand gesture, but Occam's Razor would indicate that it is more likely his gesture meant nothing more than his previous two.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

10. Because it wasn't a racist hand signal.

He was counting his wins. He was on 3. He used THE signal for 3 in basketball. Look at this racist:

[cinematicdiversions]

11. Because nobody outside of a small Cadre of people

Would even have any idea that it was a racist symbol in the first place.

There is no reason to belive the constant was a follower of 4 Chan or whatever internet cesspool pushing the meme.

He was clearly simply indicating the number three with his fingers in a manner people have for hundreds of years

To automatically read ill intent into the gesture is madness.

[marble falls]

17. "Cadre", huh? What's your agenda?

[cinematicdiversions]

19. I don't have an agenda but yes cadre

It is like the Betsy Ross Flag Shoe controversy. How many people do you think knew that the Betsy Roots flag was a secret White Supremacy symbol before Nike put it on a sneaker?

Not everyone pays attention to such things. I would guess that the vast majority of people do not.

[marble falls]

20. What do you mean by "cadre"? Don't be shy. You seem very concerned by this.

[cinematicdiversions]

26. What is a small group of people Alex? Nt

[marble falls]

34. I'm sorry contestant: get a dictionary and look it up ...

ca•dre kä?drā, -drə, kăd?rē, kä?dər►

n.
A nucleus of trained personnel around which a larger organization can be built and trained.
n.
A tightly knit group of zealots who are active in advancing the interests of a revolutionary party.


Don't dance around it. Just speak clearly about what you mean.

cadre noun

cad·​re | ˈka-ˌdrā
, ˈkä-, -drē; especially British ˈkä-də, ˈkā-, -drə

Definition of cadre

1 : a nucleus or core group especially of trained personnel able to assume control and to train others broadly : a group of people having some unifying relationship a cadre of lawyers a cadre of technicians
2 : a cell of indoctrinated leaders active in promoting the interests of a revolutionary party
3 : a member of a cadre

[Scrivener7]

22. I'm thinking we know without asking.

[marble falls]

49. Silence only confirms it.

[Marrah_Goodman]

59. But now you know he was just saying 3

It wasn't a racist hand signal. In fact, I would guess most people have no clue about the racist hand signals. Most people I know have zero knowledge that they are using the ok sign as some sort of signal.

[Doc Sportello]

62. So how do you know it was a racist hand signal?

You have provided no proof, other than your interpretation, which other posters on here have shown is wrong. And where is that pic of him wearing a MAGA hat that you claim he did? So no ad hominems from you about bankers allowed in this response. Keep to the topic at hand. This thread is about liberals who repeat false conspiracy theories, which you have demonstrated with wild claims. Now it is your turn to back them up with proof of his racism (and no, being a BANK EXAMINER isn't proof). And where is this photo you claim exists?

[Doc Sportello]

4. Clearly some did not bother to read the article

Or chose to ignore it's facts. To quote:

"Snopes is right. Mr. Donohue’s case is unusually clear-cut, and the allegation is obviously false.

So the element of this story that interests me most is how the beating heart of nerdy, liberal fact-mastery can pump blood into wild social media conspiracy, and send all these smart people down the sort of rabbit hole that leads other groups of Americans to believe that children are being transported inside refrigerators. And, I wanted to know, how they could remain committed to that point of view in the absence of any solid evidence.
Mr. Donohue’s three fingers, Snopes pointed out, symbolize the number “three.” After his first victory, he waved one finger. After his second victory, he raised two. And after his third, he showed three fingers. He awkwardly folded his index and forefingers into something that looks as if it could be some kind of sign, but doesn’t resemble the “OK” signal that white supremacists have sought to appropriate.

and from the ADL, not exactly the KKK:
"“Thank you for reaching out regarding your concern over a Jeapardy [sic] contestant flashing what you believed to be a white power hand signal,” wrote Aaron Ahlquist, of the A.D.L., according to text posted to the group by the contestant who had emailed the group. “We have reviewed the tape and it looks like he is simply holding up three fingers when they say he is a three-time champion. We do not interpret his hand signal to be indicative of any ideology."


It's amusing that some are doing the exact thing that the article is pointing out. The guy is a bank examiner form Massachusetts who made it on to Jeopardy. Hardly your typical hood-wearing racist. But he's being subjected to his time in the barrel for using the same hand signal basketball players use for making three-pointers. Sheesh people get a grip.

[Scrivener7]

6. I read the article. And as I said, the article is using Snopes to say it was not a white power

symbol.

Snopes also said Stephen Miller's was not using a white power symbol when, spoiler alert, he was.

And again, given the guy's political affiliation and the oddness of the gesture, it is not a stretch to think it is.

[Doc Sportello]

21. It's not odd and it is a stretch to make accusations

That are ridiculous and could ruin the guy's life. And they are NOT TRUE. But who cares about that, right? As long as the mob gets it's revenge. I recommend watching the movie Ox-Bow Incident.

[Scrivener7]

25. No. If the guy is MAGA, it's not a stretch to think he's a racist. In fact, it's a given

that he is a racist if he is proudly wearing his MAGA hat in his social media.

If he thought it would ruin his life, he would not be supporting a racist in his social media.

And again, do you think an $800,000 winner on Jeopardy is so uninformed that he does not know the meaning of that particular sign?

[Doc Sportello]

28. Uh, he won $80,000

Not 800,000. At least you tried using a fact, even if it was wrong.

[Scrivener7]

30. Gosh! You caught me in a typo! That must mean the MAGA hat wearing, white supremacist

sign sporting guy is NOT a racist!

[Doc Sportello]

37. See my post about his comments on the subject

He CONDEMNS racism. But I'm sure nothing will quench your fever for revenge, over something that wasn't what you said it is.

And where is this photo demonstrating that his was a racist hand gesture.

And that wasn't a typo ;seems like more of an exaggeration, like the others.

[Scrivener7]

38. I've seen your posts. And sure he does. While wearing a MAGA hat in his social media.

And let's review: you're the guy who is saying that it is conspiracy mongering to suggest that a MAGA guy is flashing a white supremacist sign...

... but somehow typing 800,000 vs. 80,000 constitutes nefarious activity.

Kay.

Have a lovely day.

[Doc Sportello]

46. Once again no proof

How do you know he is a MAGA guy who is intentionally flashing a white power symbol? Accusing someone of something for which you have no proof - in this case that he intentionally flashed a white power symbol - is nefarious and the kind of thing the other side does. You can't accuse the media of both siderism in cases like this when you are giving them ammunition for that take.

[marble falls]

18. Bankers can't be racist, eh? What's "red-lining" all about?

[Doc Sportello]

24. So stereotyping bankers is ok

I thought stereotyping was wrong. Sort of like making unfounded ridiculous accusations. I guess some think those are ok. Makes the author's points.

[LanternWaste]

50. I think accusing the poster of stereotyping is a flawed inference on your part.

Asking if profession X is immune to racism is not stereotyping. I certainly hope you either a) learn the definition of the word or b) apply its usage more validly in the future.



(when we try to paint other posters as flawed simply because they disagree with our unsupported premise, we more often than not, illustrate our own flaws)

[marble falls]

51. My dad, my mom, my ex-MiL, three brothers, SiL, daughter and my Sil are in banking above ...

... branch level, except for the MiL who was a branch manager. I got a pretty good handle on bankers and what they are capable of. My mom was a chief auditor, dad a VP in consumer loans and help develop credit scoring in the '70's ..........

Wanna trade some banking stories sometime?

https://democraticunderground.com/10142745325

[Doc Sportello]

52. Sad attempt at deflection

I could care less about your family background in banking. You have crucified the guy with no proof, just a claim of him appearing in a photo with a MAGA hat that was never provided.

Claiming that he was flashing a white power sign with absolutely no proof. Here's a response in this thread that shoots that absurdity down:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215439137#post39

Not to mention his own response to the stupid "controversy" that was posted: a clear and concise rejection about white supremacy. Wanna provide the proof that Donohue is a racist, or you just want to keep trying to dig the hole of your ridiculous conspiracy theory and continue with the character assassination?

[marble falls]

55. And that right there is a doubling down on your uninformed opinion. With a healthy dose of ...

... of ad homonym tossed in.

Not all racists wear pointed hoods. A lot of the ones who make economic decisions that play out racially wear gray flannel and collar stays.

[Doc Sportello]

56. Still waiting for that photo of Donohue in a MAGA hat

More deflection with the uninformed claim, coming as it is from someone who has been unable to back their accusations and charges of racism based on a hand signal with anything resembling facts. THAT is the point. Talking about bankers is trying to deflect from your wild claims and character assassination.

But we're still waiting for that pic and any other poof. So far, crickets.

[marble falls]

57. Waiting for you stop the ad homenym. I'd like to see you document some of your tripe ...

... at least I can show racism in the banking industry but you still haven't documented your claim the contestant was just too middle class to be a racist.

So when you can argue honestly get back to me.

This Is What Racism Sounds Like in the Banking Industry ...
[Search domain nytimes.com] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/business/jpmorgan-banking-racism.html
Dec 11, 2019It's no secret that racism has been baked into the American banking system. There are few black executives in the upper echelons of most financial institutions. Leading banks have recently paid...

'Racial bias runs deep' at America's largest banks, study ...
[Search domain cnn.com] https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/18/investing/bank-diversity-racial-bias-study/index.html
Mar 18, 2021New York (CNN Business) The banking industry has a race problem, and a new study is putting a spotlight on the inequalities within the nation's largest financial institutions.

How Racial Inequality Manifests In The U.S. Banking System.
[Search domain npr.org] https://www.npr.org/2020/07/16/891735316/how-racial-inequality-manifests-in-the-u-s-banking-system
Jul 16, 2020Black-owned banks are a shrinking part of the financial system. There are only 21 of them in the United States. A decade ago, there were 36. Collectively, these Black-owned banks control just $4.8...

This Is What Racism Looks Like in the Banking Industry ...
[Search domain multiculturalmeanderings.com] https://multiculturalmeanderings.com/2019/12/12/this-is-what-racism-looks-like-in-the-banking-industry/
It's no secret that racism has been baked into the American banking system. There are few black executives in the upper echelons of most financial institutions. Leading banks have recently paid restitution to black employees for isolating them from white peers, placing them in the poorest branches and cutting them off from career opportunities.

Race Discrimination in the Banking Industry | The Sanders ...
[Search domain thesandersfirmpc.com] https://www.thesandersfirmpc.com/race-discrimination-in-the-banking-industry
The American Banking Industry one of the oldest, largest and most important of our industries is plagued with race-based business practices Banks, more broadly defined as "financial institutions" provides two important economic functions.

Branch Banking and Institutional Racism in the U.S ...
[Search domain journals.sagepub.com] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/016059760803200204
Studies abound documenting racial disparity in mortgage lending, yet lenders insist that they do not use race in their decision-making process, but rather rely upon credit scores as an objective financial predictor of an applicant's ability to repay a loan.

Racial Discrimination in the World of Banking | The ...
[Search domain wnycstudios.org] https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/race-discrimination-banking-industry
Racial Discrimination in the World of Banking Listen. Download. Embed. Share. Share this on Facebook (Opens in a new window) Share this on Twitter (Opens in a new window) Share this via Email. December 12, 2019 Share.

Your Bank Is a White Supremacist - The Root
[Search domain theroot.com] https://www.theroot.com/your-bank-is-a-white-supremacist-1827054992
Let there be no doubt: The banking industry is built on structural racism. It is not just the big banks. The New America study examined data from a random sample of more than 6,000 Federal Deposit ...

Racial equity in financial services | McKinsey
[Search domain mckinsey.com] https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/financial-services/our-insights/racial-equity-in-financial-services
The primary focus of the W.K. Kellogg Foundation is to improve opportunities for vulnerable children. Core to that mission is racial equity, a principle the foundation strives to achieve within its own body and promotes in the organizations with which it works, including those in financial services.. This article draws on data collected for the 2018 edition of McKinsey & Company and LeanIn.Org ...

Systemic Racism in Banking: The Wells Fargo Case
[Search domain racismreview.com] www.racismreview.com/blog/2009/06/08/systemic-racism-banking-wells-fargo/
There is a piece in the New York Times today is reporting on their investigation into the explicitly racist practices of Wells Fargo in their subprime mortgage business (photo credit: TheTruthAbout…, h/t Schiffon Wong).

[Doc Sportello]

60. The only ad hominem is what you are posting and you know it

I never made any such claim that bankers are too middle class to be racist. The POINT of this thread was about liberals doing the same thing cons do when it comes to ridiculous conspiracy theories, which you have proved ably here. But I will respond to your absurd claims about the contestant in that response of yours so you can no longer try this obvious deflection. If you are operating in good faith and not just using insults you will defend your claims there, which I don't expect. As I wrote, crickets.

[jcgoldie]

8. Well good to know that bank examiners from Massachusetts can't be racist

Puts my mind at ease.

I'm gonna go with everyone on fucking facebook sporting their MAGA hats is racist even bank examiners from New England. That alone makes the hand signal suspect.

[LiberatedUSA]

15. I used to love giving the A-Ok sign.

I have finally trained myself to stop. When I get the urge to, I give a thumbs up instead. Not two thumbs, because Orange Sphincter did and does that.

[marble falls]

23. A 'cadre' of Jepardy fans ....

[Doc Sportello]

27. Try watching a basketball game

You'll see a bunch of "MAGAts" showing that same hand signal after a three-pointer. Obviously all those players are racist too, based on using this photo as an example. This is the kind of stupid shit that is going to cost Democrats in future elections.

[marble falls]

29. Yep. Those Proud Boys are signaling 'three points' to the basket ball game going on in the street.

[Doc Sportello]

36. So now you've turned Donohue into a Proud Boy?

What's next? Pitch forks, tar and feathers?

[Scrivener7]

31. You think these guys in this photo are saying, "three"? Really?

[Doc Sportello]

35. Using this photo as an example of what Donohue was doing is more absurdity

Which should be obvious.

[Dr. Strange]

64. I think Donohue is showing a three.

Given the context, that seems pretty clear.

Why do you think he isn't?

[dsc]

32. This reminds me of the period of time in schools when wearing red was all but forbidden

because it was the color of the Bloods. It was ludicrous then and this is ludicrous now. So this man, in order to show a racist symbol on TV, auditioned for Jeopardy, got on the show, and managed to win three times and he remembered to show his 1 win, then his 2 wins, and then his 3 wins. That is patently absurd, tinfoil hat thinking.

[Doc Sportello]

33. Donohue condemns white supremacism and apologizes

From his FB post:
“I absolutely, unequivocally condemn white supremacy and racism of any kind. People who know me personally know that I am not a racist, but for the public at large it bears repeating: I am not a racist and I reject and condemn white supremacy and all forms of bigotry for the evil they are.”


https://deadline.com/2021/04/jeopardy-kelly-donohue-contestant-condemns-white-supremacy-accusations-more-than-i-could-bear-1234746594/

That should quell the mob's fever. Well, probably not.

[Celerity]

39. on top of everything else, IF Donohue was indeed flashing 'white power', he would have left his

thumb and forefinger up and visible, to make the 'P' part.

thus, IMHO (and for reasons extending beyond just this one point, including the multiple fact checkers and groups that have weighed in, and Donohue's own denial and his denunciation of racists, etc etc)


this is not a white power symbol





these are white power symbols










https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48118758

[Doc Sportello]

45. Thank you

Case closed.

[Hortensis]

40. How'd leaping to passionate support of "our lies" become normal,

instead of the indulgence of those who can't be trusted to behave at real-world gatherings?

We all recognize the "our" part of our lies, but I'm calling them lies when we don't know that they are true or false but don't care as long as they're "ours." The mind-destroying Big Lie: if I want to believe it, it's true.

More and more this place seems to roil crazy, and not in a fun way. We're living in dangerous times of mass psychopathy and radicalization. Are more victims coming here, or are some now becoming radicalized here? Or both? I've been asked by a couple others if I felt it or it seemed that way too.

As for the OP, refusing to support of what may not be true is not at all the same as refusing to take a stand for what is right. The hand gesture is far less important than the alarming indications that something malignant is eating the brains of the old Jeopardy contestants.

[cinematicdiversions]

54. I love your comment

Last edited Wed May 19, 2021, 12:28 PM - Edit history (1)

But I confess your last line would make a great zombie movie.

[Hortensis]

63. Lol, it has been many times. When isn't people becoming monsters political allegory?

[tritsofme]

41. This hysteria is absolutely insane. These people need to get a grip on reality.

[Ron Obvious]

43. Idiotic and distracting

This kind of nonsense is unhelpful, divisive, and counterproductive. I wish we'd learn to ignore this idiotic social-media-fuelled outrage culture and get back to the issues.

[BGBD]

44. This started as a troll

on the chans. They wanted to push the idea that some common and innocent symbol was actually a sign for white power, and the "OK" sign was a really handy one to use. People have used it to symbol OK or the number 3 for who knows how long. It was somewhat adopted by white supremacists, but not all that much really.

Most often its use is completely unrelated to politics and when it is used for political purposes, it's more often a troll than an actual declaration of white power. Just like in the picture above, groups like the Proud Boys like doing things that get liberals to do things just like this, where they crucify some dude for using it on Jeopardy. Then, if it happens enough, it becomes a boy who cried wolf type of thing. Start accusing everyone of being a white supremacist and you have no credibility left to point out the actual ones.

[Doc Sportello]

47. Well said

What if they start using the "thumbs up" or the peace/victory sign as a symbol or to troll liberals. Do we then stop using them and crucifying anyone in the future who uses them in the ways they have for probably centuries. If the guy came out and said 'I did this to show support for white supremacy' or it was shown in some other way that was his intent, then the accusers would have a point. But the opposite is true.

[Zeitghost]

48. Thank you

What a completely rational post.

[Azathoth]

53. This is the problem with grievance politics

Once you start training people to look for microagressions, signs of hidden prejudices, etc., they will find them *everywhere*. Facts, or the lack thereof, become completely irrelevant.

[Marrah_Goodman]

58. Some people assume everything is a conspiracy

They run with it, assuming everyone knows what they know. This poor guy was just saying "3" as in 3rd win. Just like sometimes people will use the OK sign, not knowing the white supremists use it too. I know a lot of people who have no idea about it.