We should get more aggressive with the anti-vaxxers.

[Yavin4]

Unless you have a solid medical reason for not getting the vaccine or you're under the age of 12, then there's no reason why you should not get the vaccine. I would propose that all students, over the age of 12, get the vaccine before they're allowed back in the classroom. Sound harsh? That's been school policy for years for the measles, mumps, and other vaccines.

All public sector employees, federal, state, and local, should be ordered to get the vaccine including all military personnel.

Finally, health insurance companies should be allowed to charge higher premiums for those who refuse the vaccine without a legitimate medical reason. We should make an exception for a once in a 100 years pandemic.

It is highly inconsistent to support mandating masks and social distancing laws without also mandating vaccines for those without a legitimate medical reason or are under the age of 12.

[MiHale]

1. Agreed!

[LaMouffette]

2. Yes! Especially since some of the vaccines now have full FDA approval.

[Ms. Toad]

15. I'm pretty sure that no COVID vaccines have full FDA appoval.

Pfizer requested full approval about 10 days ago. They were the first - and the process is not instantaneous.

[LaMouffette]

72. My mistake! I guess some of them have just applied for full approval.

Thanks for the correction!

Pfizer and BioNTech have already started their application process for full U.S. approval of their Covid-19 vaccine. Rival Moderna is expected to submit for the same process for its shot later this month.

The mRNA vaccines are currently on the U.S. market under Emergency Use Authorizations, which were granted by the Food and Drug Administration in December. Since then, more than 263 million shots have been administered, according to data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

[link:https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/covid-vaccines-what-full-fda-approval-means-for-you.html|

[RegularJam]

3. Somehow we have to get more aggressive.

Our current position is very pro-variant.

I'll be very honest and say that the vaccine initially was concerning to me. It should have been to all of us.

The large amount of research that has now been done has me feeling very good about getting it this Friday. I also talked to my doctor about it and she said to get it. I have yet to have had an anti-vaccer tell me they aren't getting it because their doctor told them not to.

For transparency I would have already been vaccinated but my doctors wanted me off a medication for a period before I get the vaccination. I'm excited that my appointment is this Friday.

All of us acting in good faith are going to be punished by those eager to spread it virus while cheering on variants.

[stopdiggin]

38. appreciate your common sense (and up front) approach

On the other hand -- my common sense rejoinder to your understandable 'hesitancy' (initially) -- are the millions saved in the 'early deployment' of 'not yet fully vetted' vaccines. As a purely numbers game -- authorities were more than right -- and more than right to push hard for early adoption and usage. And, without being too preachy -- pandemics are more about populations, than they are about 'individuals.'

Glad you and your doctor have arrived at a strategy. And I'm hoping that a weight lifts for you (as it has for many) with its conclusion. Welcome aboard.

[RegularJam]

49. Love every word you wrote.

In my opinion, those initial groups are hero's of mine.

[Hortensis]

56. You can get personally aggressive by refusing to do business or

socialize inside with those who refuse vaccination. My husband and I have "fired" our hairdresser and barber, and they both know why. Mine knows that I consider her depraved indifference to the lives of her customers inexcusable, a new notion to her I'm sure. That's us getting aggressive.

We stopped shopping at a supermarket that did not institute precautions and let them know a long time ago; at some point we'll likely remind them, maybe after reading some puff piece in the paper. Same for any businesses that have exhibited depraved indifference to the lives of their staff and customers.

For the rest, let business and government handle it. Even trumpist governments are working from a bad hand in situations where unvaccinated workers and others cause revenues to drop and costs to rise.

[Hoyt]

4. Just pass a law that rubes can't own a gun without a vaccine.

[lagomorph777]

5. Perfect!

[magicarpet]

8. Yes,... the gun humpers would get a shot in each arm,...

... them pull down their pants and beg for a shot in the left and right cheeks of their bums.

Don't take my 300 gun arsenal and 5,000 bullets away from me just in case I have to shoot my wife while I am in a drunken rage.

[magicarpet]

9. Yes,... the gun humpers would get a shot in each arm,...

... them pull down their pants and beg for a shot in the left and right cheeks of their bums.

Don't take my 300 gun arsenal and 5,000 bullets away from me just in case I have to shoot my wife while I am in a drunken rage.

[Johnny2X2X]

6. Carrot and stick

Right now, you keep chugging along, things are still moving swiftly with 2 millions shots a day on average, just make it easier and easier for people to get vaccinated. There is outreach going on now, when we see a significant slowdown, then you use the carrot. $100 to get vaccinated. Free perks for getting a vaccine dose. Etc.

Then after all of this, if we still aren't where we need to be then the stick starts to come into play. Already started with private businesses requiring vaccines. Schools will require them in some places. Eventually we'll get to whatever percentage we need to get to. Polls still indicate we'll get to 70% easily in the US. If an extra 10% after that is needed I think we'll get there too.

In the meantime, the vaccine effort is going well, just keep low key about it and a lot of the vaccine hesitant will give in.

[maxsolomon]

64. Now is the time for Carrots.

Provide incentives/bribes, make access easier and easier (walk up J&Js), and children pleading with their parents (and vice versa) to WTFU.

[Pobeka]

7. I think DeWine in OH will offer them a free lottery ticket.

Which, I suspect will get 5 to 10 % more of the population vaccinated. These folks work based on emotion, and the chance to win the lottery for free will draw them in like flies to honey.

And the cost to the state is just to print more lottery tickets.

[hauckeye]

10. My aunt, age 83, is one

I visited her last week and she said she won’t be getting a vaccine. She’s also a retired nurse, go figure. Total Trump lover 😡

[cinematicdiversions]

13. As a profession nurses are surprisingly unvaccinated. Nt

[AllyCat]

21. Sadly, I have to agree.

We were recently told we no longer have to wear the face shields in patient rooms unless the patient is Covid positive or potential for fluid splashes. We hate the face shields and everyone took them off and cheered.

Until...Debbie Downer here reminded folks the policy was only a change for the fully vaccinated.

3 nurses put theirs back on. Charge nurse was stunned saying “I just assumed everyone had the vaccine”.

Complete idiocy. In all cases, the RNs in question are religious nuts.

[csziggy]

53. Does your aunt realize that the former guy had the vaccine?

And later urged everybody to get it?

Donald and Melania Trump received Covid vaccine at the White House in January
By Jim Acosta and Caroline Kelly, CNN
Updated 5:04 PM ET, Mon March 1, 2021

(CNN)Former President Donald Trump and former first lady Melania Trump received the Covid-19 vaccine at the White House in January, a Trump adviser told CNN on Monday.

It was not immediately clear which vaccine or how many doses each had received.

The revelation comes after the former President urged his followers to get vaccinated for the virus during his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Orlando, Florida, on Sunday, telling the audience, "How unpainful that vaccine shot is, so everybody go get your shot." That encouragement marked a notable shift as Trump, during his time in office, had long dismissed the gravity of the virus and eschewed practices like social distancing and mask wearing.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/01/politics/trump-melania-vaccinated-white-house/index.html

If she is a T* lover, she should do what he says.

[hauckeye]

60. I think they are all hypocrites 😄

[CrackityJones75]

11. Don't think that can happen

Don’t think that can happen until it is fully authorized.

[MichMan]

12. Ineligible for any government programs unless vaccinated

plus a $5000 tax penalty through the IRS

[The Mouth]

14. They should be treated *EXACTLY* like

someone walking down the street shooting an AR-15 randomly into the crowd and buildings.

Or someone inciting a riot or other crimes.

Ended.

[fescuerescue]

63. Shot on sight?

Tiannemen square in every city in the country?

Yes. That should reduce the death toll from covid. Just kill half the country.

[The Mouth]

65. Any measure necessary

Hopefully not that, but in a manner appropriate to someone threatening public safety.

Should every rioter be killed? of course not; should someone setting fires or throwing bombs that might kill dozens or hundreds? - what's the greatest good. I would also be OK with the Secret Service protecting President Biden or VP Harris by the use of lethal force if need be.

I'm as much of a free speech extremist as one can be, but promulgating forgoing vaccines is, like 'incitement to riot', a direct and immediate threat to lives. Saying things that will kill thousands and impoverish millions.

[sarisataka]

70. That would be a final solution

To the issue of the vaccine question.

Let's see, 36% of the country is vaccinated leaving about 118 million needing to be vaccinated. We can assume half will get vaccinated willingly so, rounded down, only 50 million people who won't/ can't be vaccinated will need to be dealt with.

[The Mouth]

71. Darwin will not be denied

I really have no reason to care about the life of anybody so sociopathic that they won't get a simple shot or two in order to slow/stop the damage from this pandemic.

[cab67]

16. I was called a racist for saying this.

Not here - at a meeting on my campus.

I get that African Americans have good reason to be suspicious of the medical profession, but when lives are on the line, I don't think we should give people a pass on this.

[AZLD4Candidate]

19. I got called a racist for wondering why there was Chinese written in a Korean restaurant

by some university student that acted like she knew everything.

Told me "how do you know it isn't Korean." I proceeded to give her a lesson in Korean and Chinese (two languages I speak nearly fluently) and I was still called a racist who hated Asian people (even though I've lived there the last 15 years, own homes there, and my wife is a Chinese national).

Racist today seems to be what being called a Communist was in the 1950s-1960s. It seems to imply "I disagree with you."

Being called a racist for what you said cheapens the word and makes the accusation almost meaningless.

[stopdiggin]

39. Hmmm. Were you loud enough

or belaboring the point enough -- to invite comment from adjoining tables? Ask because this doesn't sound like a normal social/dining experience. In any event -- completely agree that the charge of 'racism' means virtually nothing when it is leveled indiscriminately to mean everything, and nothing, at the same time.

(college kids -- of all eras -- have been known on occasion to be insufferably loud, opinionated -- and completely clueless -- all in one breath. sorry you had the misfortune to sit next to one of them. it can be a trial.)

[AZLD4Candidate]

43. Nope. I just chuckled and quietly, to myself, asked "why is there simplified Mandarin in a Korean

restaurant?" She got loud and belabored the point. After, her Korean boyfriend came over and apologized for her, and we had a long conversation in Korean about my experiences there and his life there.

BTW, it wasn't at a table, it was at the front door as soon as you walk in.

[Retrograde]

45. I speak neither

(although I can count to 3 and say "Thank you" in Mandarin) but the writing systems of the two languages are very different: once you see Hangul - the Korean system - you won't get it mixed up with Chinese.

Around here, many Japanese restaurants are run by people not of Japanese descent: I do know a little Japanese, and listening to the workers speak they do not have the same speech patterns as Japanese speakers - and the kitchen staff often speak Spanish. It's not as if someone can't learn how to adequately prepare the food of a different group, given a competent teacher and the right ingredients.

I agree with you: calling someone a racist seems to be the new "correct" way to disparage them and their tastes.

[AZLD4Candidate]

47. if you download something called sougou, you can put mandarin into your computer

then, if it's active, hit the left shift key to turn it off and on.

谢谢你 is thank you in Mandarin written.

Korean is a letter based language that is BEYOND easy to learn. Everything is CVC. There are only 24 letters, and a few "compound letters." It also have no tones.

Mandarin is a tonal language with 47K characters.

湿 - wet
是 - yes/is
十 - ten
时 - time
使 - angel
事 - matter
市 - city
石 - stone
师 - expert
世 - world
试 - truth

All have the pinyin of "shi" and all mean different things.

[LittleGirl]

17. It's a reasonable request but we're dealing with

Unreasonable people here. Good luck, it’s going to come with a fight.
No seriously, good luck.

[IsItJustMe]

18. Because of the propaganda that many of these anti-vaxxers are consuming,

it is understandable why they are refusing vaccinations. It's really upon them to educate themselves.

It does not make any sense to me why a person would not get vaccinated, but then again, the last five
years seems like a trip into the Twilight Zone.

It seems to me that with hundreds of millions of doses already given around the world, the evidence
of the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is self evident. Not sure what you do with people that insist on
living in an alternate reality.

[AllyCat]

20. Once it is fully FDA approved, I can get behind that

Until then, I do not believe it is ethical to mandate an unapproved treatment

[Amishman]

68. This, it's probably not legal or ethical to require it until fully approved

Hopefully approval should be a straight forward process, we have a ton of data and overall it is extremely positive.

[Jon King]

22. Actually its not the case for measles and other vaccines.....

Anyone can claim a religious exemption and send kids to school without any vaccines. Thats been the case forever and the end result is 95% of kids are vaccinated and thats fine.

We need to stop this nonsense. Get vaccinated, get your family vaccinated, and leave others alone.

The pandemic risks are over for those of us and our families who are vaccinated. Geez, yall can take defeat from the jaws of victory. Time to move on and enjoy life.

And like I said....mandate healthy eating and exercise if you truly want to help the country. Obesity related illness cost more lives and more lost work hours than anything else.

[stopdiggin]

46. I've been against the 'religious' exemption for a long time too

As we all had no trouble predicting, interpretation of 'religious belief' quickly became watered down to "whatever I chose it to mean" -- on this and many other subjects. And here we are. Listen to Alex Jones, or watch a Q-Anon video on YouTube last night? Here's your sign!

The only exemption I can get behind for schoolchildren is a medical one.

[Zeitghost]

58. Not in all places

We have no religious or personal exemption clause here. Only medical exemptions and those are getting harder to get due to Dr's getting investigated if they issue too many.


As much as I understand the idea (I'm pro vax, entire family is vaxed etc.), I just can't get behind the government forcing it. Medical decisions should be between a patient and Dr.

[totodeinhere]

23. I agree with your proposals. But what I think the CDC is afraid is a cascade of legal challenges

which will almost certainly happen if we try to force people.

[machoneman]

24. A firing squad would almost be too good for them.

[lame54]

25. Blow darts

[lambchopp59]

30. Reminds me, I've searched Amazon, Ebay, everywhere for the Curare blow darts

It's futile. I can't find them anywhere, darnit.
I can go just down the street and buy an assault rifle and ammuntion.
But just to knock down a few anti-vaxxers and take care of the problem...
Oh, I've said too much didn't me?

[James48]

34. You are not search hard enough.

It depends on what the scientific name of the thing you are search for is.


Curare
https://www.tocris.com/products/plus-tubocurarine-chloride_2820

Blow dart gun:
https://www.amazon.com/Predator-Blowguns-36in-Caliber-Blowgun/dp/B003NEVP36

Darts:

https://www.valleyvet.com/c/livestock-supplies/equipment-supplies/instruments/cap-chur.html

[JoanofArgh]

36. lol!

[Volaris]

26. I'm not so worried as this.

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market that republicans just love to orgasm in, is about to slap these fools hard across the face.

Pending FDA approval for non emergency use, companies will start requiring employees and want-to-be employees to get vaccinated, or get themselves a new place to work.

And yes, were going to get a whole new rash of shit from the 'but ma freedumbs' crowd, but this is about to be the sword that they have sworn to live by.

I for one have NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER watching it shove itself through their stupid, facebook enabled, white middle class, holier than thou privledge.

Almost 50 percent of our clinical staff at work has refused the FREE SHOTS. I'm going to enjoy going to work, when that day comes...because fuck you, THATS why.

[Ms. Toad]

27. The solid medical reason, at this pont, is that we don't have any information

on long-term effects of mRNA vaccines - AND - they are still only approved for emergency use.

For now, the requrement should be prove your vaccinaton or mask up.

But it is actually not inconsistent to upport mandatory masking (at least until the vaccines are fully approved - and available to all ages). Until that time we need mandatory masking for community protection of people who do not have the means to protect themselves.

[bucolic_frolic]

28. Tax 'em 'til they're vaxxed

They love taxes, big government to control people's bodies, and dictators. This should be a no-brainer, even for them.

[TheProle]

57. Who are "they"?

Such an easy word to throw around when the object of your political derision is exclusively who you envision.

Are "they" the 70+% of African-Americans unvaccinated? The 70+% of Hispanics?

They aren't all pot-bellied MAGAts.

So tax the fuck out of them, yeah?

[lambchopp59]

29. Stolen from a post on Joemygod.com:

I'm off to see the Pfizer
The wonderful Pfizer of Oz
I hear it is a pfizz of a pfizz
If ever a pfizz there was
If ever oh ever a pfizz there was
The Pfizer of Oz is one because
Because because because because because
Because the wonderful things it does

[James48]

31. Can't do that today.

Because none of the Covid vaccines are FDA approved. Pfizer is the closest- they have formally applied for final approval.

But it won’t be until after the Moderna and the J & J are FDA approved that employers can legally fire people who refuse to vaccinate.

We live in interesting times. I think we will see a lot more social unrest when the anti-Vaxxers figure out they are on the stupid side of the issue.

[JT45242]

33. Hard to do with Emergency Use Authorization

I approve of the sentiment -- just not the timing.

The vaccines need to switch from EUA to full approval before such a mandate should be made.

Then once it is fully approved, give a 3 month window to schedule and get both shots (or bring the pharmacy to the schools like they did for polio back in the 1950s). I prefer the go to school model, that way you can more easily track it as a school district.

I know a few people who are hesitant until the vaccines get full approval -- the stigma of tuskegee and things done to our Vietnam era soldiers has left deep scars in some families.

Get full authorization first -- then the rules go in place.

[JoanofArgh]

35. All businesses should require their employees be vaccinated unless

they're immunocompromised or there's some other medical reason. This would put a dent in it.

[IronLionZion]

37. A tranquilizer gun, like what's used for large animals

[roamer65]

40. THIS.

[NoMoreRepugs]

41. Had todays American populace been the America of 1941 we would have so

gotten our asses kicked. Today it's me, my party and then country.

USMC taught me different, all my uncles, my dad & FIL and all my Dad's friends taught me different.

[Evolve Dammit]

42. I agree, should be required to attend school, or work in public sector. Don't know what you do with

the rest of the deniers, brain-dead or otherwise brain-washed MAGAts in private sector.

[Fla Dem]

44. I agree with your position. "Over 99% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients were not vaccinated"

My high priorities are: Schools should absolutely require teachers, staff and students to get vaccinated.
All Hospital personnel, Healthcare workers and nursing home personnel should be vaccinated.

These anti vaxers are just going to be spreading the virus to each other. Let them find out the hard way. If you and your loved ones are vaccinated you are safe.

Study: Over 99% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients were not vaccinated

Oriana Gonzalez
May 11, 2021 - Health

The Cleveland Clinic on Tuesday released a study showing that 99.75% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 between Jan. 1 and April 13 were not fully vaccinated, according to data provided to Axios.

Why it matters: Real-world evidence continues to show coronavirus vaccines are effective at keeping people from dying and out of hospitals. The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been found to be 95% and 94% effective, respectively, at preventing symptomatic infections.

Details: The study also looked at 47,000 Cleveland Clinic employees who had received one shot, both shots or no shots at all.

The Cleveland Clinic found that 99.7% of its employees who were infected with the coronavirus were not vaccinated, and 0.3% of infections occurred in those who were fully vaccinated.
The study found that in this group, mRNA vaccines were more than 96% effective in protecting against coronavirus infections.
https://www.axios.com/study-hospitalized-coronavirus-patients-unvaccinated-7ed34f63-fd1d-437c-b4b7-0c1dd3600a15.html

[Yavin4]

61. Thanks very much for this study.

I was looking for something like this.

[Sprite]

48. More aggressive with anti-vaxxers sounds un-American to me and that you are in attack mode.

The vaccine is approved for emergency use only. While what they did in 6 months is remarkable, it normally takes 6 years. We don't know what the fall out is yet. Vigorous testing, tracing, mask wearing, closing of borders works. Americans are just too impatient and always want a quick fix. Now if you wear a mask outside you are shamed.

It truly is not fair that you make anti-vaxxers the enemy. Shame on you. You don't know what some people have gone through with children that have been vaccine injured (see National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.) The parents are wary of this new vaccine because it is not fully vetted yet.

From the COVID vaccination, women have reported menstrual irregularities. A teen was hospitalized with blood clots in the brain after first dose of Pfizer. There are breakthrough cases that you get COVID anyway. (Look at the Yankees).

The bottom line is we just don't know the full extent of everything yet. If you want to be vaccinated, please do, it is your right, but don't make anti-vaxxers the enemy. Many are looking at the science.

[Yavin4]

59. "It truly is not fair that you make anti-vaxxers the enemy." What?

The bottom line is we just don't know the full extent of everything yet. If you want to be vaccinated, please do, it is your right, but don't make anti-vaxxers the enemy. Many are looking at the science.

Vigorous testing, tracing, mask wearing, closing of borders works.

So, it's okay to remove my choices and put limits on everyone's every day life, but we cannot ask that people get vaccinated. It takes years for full FDA approval. Should we wear masks and social distance for how long? Close our borders for how long? In the meantime, how are we supposed to survive economically?

[NurseJackie]

50. Well, I say we hire a couple of wranglers...

[Initech]

51. I've been calling anti-vaxxers terrorists for years.

The only difference between them and ISIS is their weapon of choice. Their weapon is biological, and a ticking time bomb.

While ISIS is playing with fire, anti-vaxxers are playing with deadly viruses, and they can be equally.

[former9thward]

52. All the covid vaccines have been released under Emergency Use Authorization.

Which means that people can't be forced to take it.

In 2003, Congress passed a law (10 U.S.C. § 1107a) that requires informed consent prior to military members receiving vaccinations issued under an emergency use authorization (EUA). All three COVID-19 vaccinations being used in the United States —Moderna, Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer—are being administered under an EUA. And all three have not been fully approved by the Food and Drug Administration. By some estimates, full approval may take up to two years.

The same argument would be used with civilians. Until the FDA approves the vaccines no can be forced.

[BobTheSubgenius]

54. It's hard to believe that there are as many anti-vaxxers as there are.

At least with the "autism" anti-vaxxers, there was the tiniest of fig leaves from a lying quack who falsified his study results. But at least it was right there in B & W, right?

[Hortensis]

55. Governments and businesses in many areas of the country are doing just that.

Local conditions have been moving to the point that most who will have become vaccinated, exposing those refusing to who are in positions where that cannot be allowed to continue.

Btw, I'm in GA, among the least vaccinated, most intransigent states. What do you imagine will happen when outbreaks force sending unvaccinated workers home, even closing of businesses and schools? Big hits to municipal business tax revenues. Big!

Embarrassing also as more enlightened parts of the country, having reached effective herd immunity, have far fewer and more quickly and easily handled disruptions. Bad signal to business our towns hope to draw.

[fescuerescue]

62. ACA will have to be amended to allow for higher healthcare premiums

The pre-existing conditions clauses rule this out.

I'm sure the Republicans would love it, if this were brought to the debate floor.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

66. We need vaccine passports and to exclude/shun assholes who refuse to be vaccinated

[ecstatic]

67. Lol @ how folks pick and choose which CDC recommendations

should be enforced.

Anyway, the problem with this idea is that it's way too soon. You can't aggressively force an emergency approved vaccine on someone and at the same time deny and refuse all liability if something goes wrong.

Also, the standard timeline for vaccine approval is 10 to 15 years. Maybe give it another year and go from there? At least then there would be two years of real world evidence as opposed to just one.

[Yavin4]

69. 4 Myths About What It Means For A Vaccine To Be 'FDA Approved'

Myth: If COVID-19 vaccines aren’t (yet) FDA approved, they aren’t safe

While there are important distinctions between FDA approval and emergency use authorization, those words may be thought of interchangeably in at least one way: both mean the FDA considers the COVID-19 vaccines “safe and effective” for the groups indicated.

“In this case, both ‘authorized’ and ‘approved’ are flexible terms that basically mean the same thing in terms of quality and the high standards the FDA sets forth,” said Dr. Arnold Monto, a professor of epidemiology and global public health at the University of Michigan. “The FDA did not lessen the standards for anything, including the amount of time that must lapse, before an application for ‘FDA approval’ could be considered.”

To that end, the FDA spokesperson also left no room for doubt regarding the safety of the vaccines: “The FDA can assure the public and medical community that we have conducted a thorough evaluation of the available safety, effectiveness and manufacturing quality information for every vaccine authorized” and that “efforts to speed vaccine development have not sacrificed scientific standards or the integrity of our vaccine evaluation process.”

“With over 120 million people already vaccinated,” Bates said, “this is one of the largest field tests of a vaccine ever conducted, and this vaccine has so far been shown to be as safe and effective as the many medications and vaccines that have been fully approved.”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215441305