General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEvery inch of this Earth has been fought over ad infinitum.
There's NO SUCH THING as "Their land or my land or what used to be their land, etc"
For thousands of years the ownership of land has been determined by brute force.
Yes, every inch.
North America, you ask? Yeah, the NA tribes fought each other, stole each others land and moved on. Rinse and repeat.
The Middle East? Particularly frequently fought over.
Europe? Kidding, right? Europe has been a conveyor belt of conquest.
Ask the ethnic Germans living East of Germany post WW2 how things went. Oh, never mind... many of them were killed by USSR ethnic cleansing.
Ask the ethnic Germans who lived in Konigsberg for centuries what happened after WW2.
The human race isn't a fair or equitable pack of animals.
That's just reality.
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Irish_Dem
(81,248 posts)Russia, China, and the US.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,956 posts)That is an awful large bowl of BS you are lumping all Native Americans into. You should learn some history. 
And btw, what is even your point? 
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)fought and moved around. No one is on their original land. One example is the Navajo and Apache moving into the southwest in the 14th or 15th century, displacing some Pueblo groups. Everyone is human, with the same basic motivations.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Really, now?
You must be aware the Aztec, Inca, and Maya had literal empires.
treestar
(82,383 posts)it is thrown back at us what we did to the Native Americans, and that's why we can't oppose a contemporary takeover.
And making the Native Americans into noble savages who would never do such things does not work either, since indeed they did where they could.
Calista241
(5,633 posts)There's a lot to admire about Native American culture, but make no mistake, they fought some brutal wars and demonstrated some savage behaviors.
The Aztecs cut out people's hearts, ate them, and widely practiced cannibalism. They also sacrificed conquered tribes to their gods.
The Mayans played a sport similar to soccer with severed heads.
In what is now the US, the Cheyanne, Arapaho and Sioux tribes invaded and conquered the Kiowa tribe. The Kiowa were then forced out of their homeland and fought with the Comanche, and later joined them in a loose alliance. The Kiowa and Comanche developed a fierce reputation as raiders throughout the great plains area. Some epic wars were fought between the Kiowa / Comanche and the Apache tribes well before European settlers came here.
Iroquois Indian women would dance and celebrate with the scalps brought back from their warriors on raids. The Navajo tribes raided their neighbors and kidnapped their women for wives. They also waged wars for the sake of glory and revenge. This is where the term 'war party' came from, as they would party for days before setting off to butcher and plunder their neighbors.
In 1950, a mass grave of Arikara Indians was found in South Dakota, dating from the 1300's, and well before European colonization. 500 bodies were found, and nearly all of them were scalped, had their tongues cut out, or had various limbs cut off.
I studied the American Indians and their culture in college. I'm sure some Indians lived their lives without ever seeing violence, but that was not a common experience.
Crunchy Frog
(28,280 posts)Might makes right? Anything goes no matter how violent, because that's how it's always worked? The 1/6 insurrection would have been okay if only they'd been successful at it?
I don't think humanity can afford to live like that anymore. I think we've reached a point where we have to move past it, and as progressives I don't think we should be okay with it.
YMMV though, I guess.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Despite every word in existence having already been uttered ad infinitum, new ideas, concepts and poetry still develop.
Because the human race has always, hit or miss, aspired to achieve more than was done in its past.
That's just a reality as well...
(and much like yours as well, consciously avoids any real investment in the actual and relevant specifics being discussed, and instead, merely makes a generic point to argue against a thing no one has in fact, argued.
muriel_volestrangler
(106,201 posts)and no-one's fought over the claims to the rest.
Haggard Celine
(17,821 posts)is it all common property? Do you have the right to defend your property? What about the place you're renting, with a contract? Eliminating private property would destroy the world's economy. What would we replace it with?
Darwins_Retriever
(949 posts)The government can take property. The idea that the government must pay you fair market value is not a concept practiced in many countries, but the taking of property be the government is.
Haggard Celine
(17,821 posts)The government can't just seize any land that it wants. And what does any of that have to do with abolishing private property? Our government isn't going to take everyone's property and say that we can all roam around and just plop down wherever we like. It's ludicrous to say that because of Eminent Domain laws, we don't have private property anymore.
Alpeduez21
(2,053 posts)It used to just be reality that making children do hard time was ok.
It used to just be reality that torturing people was OK.
It used to just be reality that people died of disease.
To say something horrific is just reality is lazy logic.
We hope that humans are capable of bettering themselves. We hope that as a species we can collectively improve lives. We hope that humans recognize our flaws and work to improve them.
Well, most of us hope for that anyway.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)evidence that the concept of blood sacrifice is still alive.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)I have argued here before that some people have not just fetishized guns but made a god of them, and that their god drinks the blood of a steady flow of victims.
Recognizing a mythology at work doesn’t mean it’s pretty.
treestar
(82,383 posts)they are admitting they think it better for the shootings to happen than for them to give up their guns. And if they or theirs die in such a shooting, they should accept that as a sacrifice.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)most likely thousands of years ago people stood on the fields of what is now the France/Germany border and threw rocks at each other.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)...that has not been soaked in blood at one time or another. While some of us aspire for better, I sometimes despair of us as a species.
I don’t know what happened at Konigsberg, but I have heard that some of the Polish Jews who tried to return to their homes after surviving the Holocaust were physically attacked by their fellow Poles, and generally made to feel unwelcome.
Trump put me in a deeply despairing mood — but I refuse to let him and his ilk speak for me or have the last word.
This is my country, and it is worth saving from the barbarians. We recognize what they are, and they will only win if enough of us turn our backs and walk away in exhaustion.
Don’t let them win.
Jim__
(15,222 posts)Therefore, killing each other is OK?
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)With no third state claiming the neglected area, Bir Tawil is one of the few land areas of the world not claimed by any recognised state. Egypt arguably still administers the territory, but it is not marked as Egyptian on government maps.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Hans Island... Denmark / Canada
A long-disputed island that Denmark and Canada claim by periodically alternating flags and bottles of liquor.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+island+does+canada+and+denmark+fight+over&biw=877&bih=412&sxsrf=ALeKk004NIDLL5QWEFaQkVSDF26j7Y1T5A%3A1621473430613&ei=lrilYLvhJKLi5NoP9-uO2Aw&oq=island+claimed+by+canada+anc+de&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYAjIECAAQDTIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoHCCMQsAMQJzoHCAAQRxCwAzoECCMQJzoLCC4QxwEQrwEQkQI6BQguEJECOggIABCxAxCDAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6BAgAEEM6CAguELEDEIMBOgQIABAKOgIIADoCCC46BAguEAo6CggAELEDELEDEAo6BwgAELEDEAo6BwgAEMkDEAo6BwguELEDEAo6BwgAELEDEEM6CgguEMcBEK8BEAo6CgguELEDEIMBEAo6DQguEMcBEK8BEA0QkwI6BwgAELEDEA06CgguEMcBEK8BEA06BggAEAcQHjoKCAAQsQMQgwEQCjoOCC4QxwEQrwEQkQIQkwI6BQgAEJECOggILhDHARCvAToFCAAQyQM6BQgAELEDOgYIABAWEB46CAgAEBYQChAeOgUIIRCgAToHCCEQChCgAToFCCEQqwJQ5I0CWPTlBGCApAVoA3ACeACAAeACiAGIMJIBCDEuMzIuNC4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBCcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz
treestar
(82,383 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)is this - no consciousness of world history, as if America was the only land ever taken over by another.
Britain was invaded and invaded over and over - at some points, the Danes even held sway over a large part of it. When there is not enough food in one place, the people from that place travel. That's human nature.
The Incas conquered others too, so it even happened in the Americas.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Even in the present day US, the Sioux, Pawnee, Apache, Blackfeet, Crow and others fought ferocious battles for land, food and water for hundreds of years.