Heart-stopping, heartbreaking cover of today's @nytimes "They Were Just Children"

[riversedge]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by JudyM (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Heart-stopping, heartbreaking cover of today's @nytimes
.

May their memories be a blessing -- and a call for all of us to act with urgency and determination to end this horrific cycle of injustice, retaliation and senseless violence.

Link to tweet

?s=20

Link to tweet

?s=20

[questionseverything]

1. Remember these children of gaza were born behind a prison wall and have never known freedom

Or equality

[brush]

3. Sounds like apartheid to me. Israel has to get the right wingers and Netanyahu out.

[SCantiGOP]

16. The only difference in South African apartheid

and Israeli apartheid is that the US joined every other major nation in condemnation of the policy in South Africa.
Opposing the Israeli atrocities in no way indicates a desire to harm the nation of Israel; it simply says that the Palestinians have a right like everyone else on the planet to live as a free people embracing their own culture and self-determination.

[brush]

18. Yes, yes, yes, which is why I target Netanyahu and the right wingers who...

manage to keep control of the Israeli government and maintain the Israeli version of apartheid.

[BobTheSubgenius]

34. The US....except for Dick Cheney.

Letting Nelson Mandela rot in prison was just fine with that monster.

[joetheman]

2. Thanks for posting. nt

[Evolve Dammit]

4. One would expect more of those who had been targeted and oppressed.

[Demovictory9]

5. wow. rare to see Palestinians mourned in US media

[Duppers]

6. Yes, indeed.

[DanieRains]

7. America's White Evangelicals Sealed Their Fate

More than just the criminal Bibi to blame here.

[Jilly_in_VA]

22. THIS

The Talibangelicals and the damn Dominionists who are in a rush to "bring the Messiah". UGH.

[malaise]

8. They are finally waking up

Rec for the children - I do not plan to forget this latest slaughteer

[dalton99a]

9. .

[wnylib]

10. I fully agree with President Biden

that Israel has a right to defend itself. But I seriously question HOW they do it.

They have an organization that is equal to and perhaps better than the US CIA and Special Forces combined. Let them do undercover work to take out Hamas, who is their real enemy. I know that they say that Hamas locates operations in civilian places to use civilians, including children, as human shields. That probably is true. But taking out civilians along with Hamas sites does not solve the problem. If it did, the violence would have ended decades ago. It only creates new enemies.

Go after Hamas. Stop settling on Palestinian land. Stop trying to take all of the land. Eliminate Hamas and work with the Palestinian people for peace. Accept a two state solution. This is Palestine, not Canaan.

I believe that cooperation with other nations on covert activities could destroy Hamas. Let that be the focus.

[questionseverything]

13. It's the taking all the land that is the problem

This last blow up started over another illegal Israel settlement

[tritsofme]

29. The land under dispute in Sheik Jarrah has been owned by Jews since the 1870s.

But, sure.

[druidity33]

14. Here's the thing though...

the people of the Palestinian territories ELECTED Hamas to form their government. They have been providing for the people of the territories. Are they really terrorists? Compare their acts to the acts of the State of Israel. The territories are relatively small. Is the human shield thing true? What non-"civilian" places does Hamas have to operate in? Where is the line between "freedom fighter" and terrorist? I think we're being duped...

[wnylib]

15. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Its initial statement of goals was to make all of the former British Palestine into a Palestinian state, which would mean eliminating Israel as a nation state. Its members are Sunni fundamentalists.

Hamas later claimed to accept the pre 1967 Israeli borders, but wanted Palestinians to have the right to return to lands in Israel that they had left when Israel was established. That is totally absurd and disingenuous. No nation welcomes sworn enemies inside its borders. It is a ploy to gain settlements in Israel toward eventual takeover, given the hostilities.

You are right that there is a problem with my suggestion of taking out Hamas in general due to its position as an elected political group. But Hamas consists of separate (supposedly) wings - social/charitable, political, and military. The US, EU, and Canada consider Hamas a terrorist organization because of its use of terrorist tactics against civilians, including suicide bombers. Other nations (UK, Austrailia) designate only the military wing of Hamas as terrorist.

Taking out the terrorist leaders of the military wing is self-defense for Israel. Taking out civilians and expanding Israeli borders is not self defense.

The problem is that both sides - Palestinian Hamas leaders and Israeli expansionist leaders - are determined to be the sole nation state in the region. That cannot be accomplished without the genocide of one or the other, or the total subjugation of one or the other, creating more hostility and violence.

So a political solution, not a military one, is needed. That would require attitude changes on BOTH sides, the mutual recognition on both sides for the other side's existence. Palestinians, especially Hamas leadership, need to accept that the world has changed since the caliphates of the Muslim Empire. Israel must accept that the world has changed since the days of King David. They have an obligation to themselves and each other to negotiate the land divisions as rational human beings instead of as ancient conquest warriors.

The ultimate irony of the hostilities between them is that they are both Semitic peoples. Their languages, religions, and ancient history are similar. They have much more in common than not. They should be able to be allies instead of mortal enemies.

[stopdiggin]

20. good post

and might I add that both people (Israeli and Palestinian) would do much better without their radical fundamentalists?

[HUAJIAO]

21. And so would the USA....

[wnylib]

23. I've known two types of fundamentalists.

Some are literalists about their sacred writings and doctrines but do not feel compelled to make others follow their way. They might believe that you are headed for hellfire and damnation, but figure that's your issue. They make their views known but do not force them on others.

The other type of fundamentalist is a zealot through and through. A my way or the highway type. They are right and everyone else is wrong so they feel justified in anything they do.

The first type does not bother me. The second type does.

[druidity33]

24. Both sides are guilty...

of atrocities. But when i see such unequal resources on one side of the conflict, i guess i feel some sympathy for the beleaguered party. Israel could demolish the entirety of the territories many times over without making a dent in their armaments. That the US supplies. The only thing stopping them at this point would be world opprobrium. Why is Hamas always the "terrorist" and not the Israeli Military State? I think Palestinians have been given the short end for as long as they've been pushed around in that corner of Israel. Ultimately i think it's the people in power completely taking advantage of the people without power, and the world ignores it. Just sayin'...

[wnylib]

27. Agree, both sides are at fault in the ongoing

violence. State terrorism and non state terrorism are both terrorism.

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. They're all terrorists

Fatah used to be the PLO which used to commit acts of terrorism against Israelis. And Israel's ruling party, Likud, partly traces its origins to the terrorist group Irgun.

[KS Toronado]

11. It's a real shame the 10 commandments God left Israel weren't worded

Thou shall not steal Palestinian land
Thou shalt love Palestinians as yourself.

[EnterwebsJohn]

12. Yup Israel - a US allie.

[Botany]

17. The creation of the State of Israel resulted in the destruction on the homeland of the Palestinians

Until Israel comes clean on that fact, supports a 2 state solution, and stops building on the West Bank
and in Jerusalem there will never be peace in the middle east.

[USALiberal]

19. How many children did we kill in the gulf war? Nt

[IcyPeas]

25. this may be apples and oranges but how can we stop senseless violence in other countries

when we don't stop it here: (Sandy Hook)

[msfiddlestix]

26. Shocking, but grateful to made aware of it. I can hardly believe it myself

Thanks for bringing this my attention.

It gives me a tiny bit of hope that didn't exist in this regard, before this post.

[tritsofme]

28. Shameful that Hamas exploits women and children to use as human shields.

[Rustyeye77]

30. It is terrible.

But put the blame where it belongs.

Hamas uses these kids as propaganda pawns.
Hamas started the rockets .last was 4500 total.
Hamas didn’t care where in Israel it hit.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that rules with an iron hand against any dissent.
Hamas has repeated committed war crimes.
Hamas has stated repeatedly that it wanted to wipe Israel off the map.
Hamas is responsible for these poor children.

Israel will not be a punching bag, nor should it be.


To mods... these are facts. These are not RW TALKING POINTS. Any dissent against the anti Israel mood will be alerted and are not RW talking points. It’s a lousy game... delete any post that doesn’t conform to the hate Israel crowd. Please do not delete this. Don’t take the bait.

[JudyM]

31. Truth.

The false equivalence is beyond disheartening.

[Rustyeye77]

33. Thank you.

very disheartening.

[BobTheSubgenius]

35. It very much is.

It certainly took the shine off my afternoon.

[JudyM]

36. Locking

Reminder from the forum hosts after review of this OP:
“Open discussion of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is (only) permitted during very high-profile news events which are heavily covered across all newsmedia.”
In the judgment of the forum hosts the time for posting about the conflict ended shortly after the cease-fire, so this should be posted in the I/P group.