Very informative article regarding Covid rates among unvaccinated.

[Ninga]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp_pandemic%20test

A case study from Washington State.


“These adjusted numbers paint a far less optimistic picture: Washington’s case rate among unvaccinated people is as high as it was in late January, near the peak of Covid infections.”

[zaj]

1. As I would expect

They pass it around to themselves, right? But "they": gets smaller over time.

[Ninga]

2. Yep. They do and they will. Thankfully.

[pwb]

3. We have plenty of respirators for them now.

.

[Hugin]

4. The reservoir for the 'rona is human.

No need to do nasal swabs on other critters.

[LisaL]

5. I guess the moral of the story is, if you aren't vaccinated,

go get the darn vaccine. Now you don't even need appointments, you can just walk in and get it.

[Scrivener7]

6. The only way that's going to stop is by attrition plus illness acquired immunity among the

unvaccinated.

There is not much we can do about it. Perhaps this news will make more people get the vaccination. Because there is a very simple solution to all of this.

[LisaL]

7. Yep, you can bring the horse to water but you can't make him drink.

It sure sounds like the total cases are dropping because of vaccinations, but among un-vaccinated population the cases aren't actually dropping. There is a solution for these people is to go get vaccinated. If they refuse, what exactly could anyone do about it?

[Reality Primate]

41. Yep, you can bring the anti-vaxxer / republican to data, but you can't make him think.

[JudyM]

58. DUzy! Welcome to DU, Reality Primate.

[Ninga]

8. I'm not sure that Covid illness acquired immunity is a slam dunk. I know of 3 people who had Covid

in Dec/Jan and acquired it again in March/April.

[LisaL]

9. Probably because different variants are now circulating.

NT

[Scrivener7]

10. Wow. And yet they say that immunity after having it plus a vaccine is pretty much a guarantee

you won't get it.

[LisaL]

36. The guarantee is that you won't get the original variant.

But now we have all new mutants.

[Ninga]

54. None of the people I know who had it twice have been vaccinated.

[stopdiggin]

52. I have questions

although it's been acknowledged there is some variation (as well as some 'outliers'.) in immune response. Any chance that your friends were tested for antibodies -- and then turned up with a bad cold (or something similar) later on?

(we had a real run of schoolkids with some kind of 'bug' in late spring)

[Ninga]

55. Welp anything is possible. I only know what they or their family told me.

[paleotn]

24. My worry is the unvaccinated become a kitchen for cooking up new variants.

Novel strains that can not only evade the evolutionary pressure of current immunity, but are more lethal, particularly across a wider range of age groups. Covid-19 has a lot of room to play with regarding lethality and still successfully colonize new hosts. We were pretty damn lucky it didn't start out far more lethal than it already is.

[greenjar_01]

11. Honestly, so long as it remains low among the vaccinated, I'm a shrug on this

If people don't want to save themselves because they're ideological morons, that's their issue.

[FoxNewsSucks]

12. Vax refusers should be denied coverage

by their insurers. They should also be bumped from the hospital to make room for rational people needing medical care.

It's more than just the COVID morons, these fools never have to face consequences of their deliberate stupidity. So why would they ever change?

[Pobeka]

14. +1 n/t

[paleotn]

28. If I were an insurer, I'd be all for that.

Far higher premiums for the unvaccinated are more probable. Covid-19 hospitalizations are expensive and insurance companies (love them or hate them) got double hammered in 2020 with higher payouts and less income due to premium losses from drastically higher unemployment. We'll probably see higher premiums overall as they try to recoup the losses, but much of that should come from the intentionally unvaccinated.

[gopiscrap]

37. exactly

the unvaccinated should be arrested and locked up til they get vaccinated if that means a life sentence so be it
unless you have a medical contra-indication there is no reason not to get the shot!!

[Hortensis]

65. :) Draconian efficiency, but not workable in our society.

At least not until and after a strong RW authoritarian regime is in power. Just the dumping of highly infectious people off hospital grounds would present various types of problems only they are suited to dismiss.

You're wrong that they'll never change, you know. They changed to this, over various change stages.
They'll change again. And again. Please let it be finally for the better next time; I can't even imagine what would be worse than what these are capable of.

Best case, imo, if this self immolation caused a retreat and rebirth under old-style Republican leaders similar to what they were before the 1980s; we could live with and thrive despite that. Heck, even be long-time friends. Might seem like a fantasy, but it was once real.

[Pobeka]

13. Problem for the vaccinated, is the unvaccinated provide a pool for mutations.

Mutations that can eventually escape the vaccine immunity. We will be constantly playing defense with booster shots as long as the virus is endemic, and has not played out all the feasible mutations.

Get the vaccination up to 80% of all populations on the planet and maybe we can starve this virus of the chance to mutate.

[rgbecker]

18. This needs to be made clear.

As long as the virus can find a home, reproduce and move to the next victim it will be around to harass the human race. Suggesting that everything is fine because the good are getting the shot and only the jerks are not is over looking the cost to us all of having a viral disease circulating the world.

[Johonny]

23. Since the virus appears to enter the animal population

there maybe no preventing it recirculating with time. The timescale is very much up in the air, though.

[forgotmylogin]

49. I've got my fingers crossed...

...that the lethality of variants hopefully is reduced in the vaccinated. I base this on little except that I've read it's a SARS variant, so mutations may be similar and the antibody build up may fight it off partially.

[stopdiggin]

53. so far -- that seems to be exactly what we are seeing

AND -- should a new variant become a breakout 'threat' -- immunologists say that a targeted vaccine could be quickly tailored (with existing research) to meet that threat.

So far -- the vaccines are performing GREAT -- and look like they will probably continue to.

[paleotn]

29. Bingo.

[spinbaby]

46. Plus they threaten those with weak immune systems

I know organ transplant recipients who are on their third vaccination and still don’t have antibodies. The unvaccinated are threats to anyone with a weak immune system, whether from organ transplants, chemo, or another reason.

[cally]

57. Exactly, my husband is told to assume he is not protected

After the vaccine.

[tanyev]

15. I do feel bad for the exhausted health care workers

that have to keep taking care of these unvaccinated fools.

[mac2766]

16. I've said in the past... "screw-em, I'm vaccinated", but...

I've got 2 sisters, a brother, and a niece, and several other relatives who have bought into the whole "Bill Gates" thing, and many other Q type conspiracies that they will not get the vaccine. It's very disturbing to think that people have so easily fallen for such nonsense.

I have a friend who used to be like that. He was just as uninformed a person as any I had been around until he took a Critical Thinking course. He now listens to NPR exclusively. He's thinking much more clearly these days. I believe they had to write several papers with research during the class. I believe that, more than anything, opened his eyes. Last week I stopped by to see him and he mentioned that he was writing a paper about how police personnel are unwilling to take the vaccine and how that will affect those they come in contact with. I think I'm going to want to read the paper when he's finished.

I remember taking an Ethics class when I was in college some time ago. That opened my eyes to religion. I'm not going to speak about my beliefs, but simply that my eyes were opened by the subject matter being taught in the class. To be clear, the professor presented the subject matter in an informative way. It was very non-biased - neither pro or anti religion. We were all left to form our own opinions. It was a really good class.

[orleans]

39. that paper your friend is writing sounds interesting

last night i posted something about that on a du thread:

"i wonder what the vax rate was/is with cops

"i remember seeing tons of chicago cops on the news last summer without masks, (drove me crazy) hanging together in groups of 4, 6, 10, talking, blocking off jogging paths and parks so people wouldn't be out or gather because the pandemic was so bad. but they were a bunch of tough guys --they didn't need no stinking masks

"i say to all the cops who could have gotten vaxxed but decided against it, then continued having interactions with family/friends/the public -- and spreading that shit around"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15476201

the thread linked to an article about a young cop whose wife died of covid; they had both gotten covid & the cop hadn't gotten the vaccine which was offered to first responders and frontline workers on january 25 in illinois.

maybe your friend might be interested in this article for the class paper they are writing
https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/05/27/covid-19-cuts-short-dreams-and-life-vibrant-28-year-old-peorian/7418591002/

[liberal_mama]

17. The daily count of new Covid cases is exactly the same as May 2020, around 20,000 cases daily

So the unvaccinated must be spreading it around now.

[Johonny]

25. And society is doing much less to protect them

Most states are open or about to open soon. By July 4th those that chose to be unvaccinated do so at their own risk.

[mucifer]

50. The medical world has gotten better at treating Covid. So less people are dying

[csziggy]

19. The last two paragraphs of the article in hte OP say it all

“I hope this does not become a tale of two societies,” he (Umair A. Shah, the Washington the state secretary of health) said. “The people who are vaccinated and are protected can resume their lives, taking off their masks.

“The people who are not vaccinated are the ones who are not wearing a mask or washing their hands. Those are the very people who often times will socialize and be around similar like-minded people. You’re going to have the pandemic continue in those clusters.”

But I think Mr. Shah has missed that there are already two societies - the science and fact based one and the Fox News, science denying Qanon believing one.

[Mickju]

56. There might be three societies.

I have a friend who is very intelligent, very far left and a Bernie supporter who has been out demonstrating against vaccines and masks. We no longer live in the same city so I only recently found out about this. I am horrified. She is a teacher at a very classy private school and will probably be fired.

[smirkymonkey]

59. There seems to be people on the far right AND the far left who are in the

anti-vax camp, although their reasons may differ. For those on the right, it seems to be primarily political, and all about "Freedum".

For those on the far left - and I have a very good friend and her husband who are just like your friend - it's usually because of their mistrust of big pharma, western medicine and anything that isn't "natural". People who tend to rely on alternative health and healing vs. allopathic medicine.

[Mickju]

63. I think you nailed it.

[Lonestarblue]

20. The NYT reports cases and deaths from Covid every day.

Yesterday, 643 people died from Covid. That’s the equivalent of more than two plane crashes per day or multiple mass murders. No one blinks. But the media are not doing much to help people understand where these new cases and deaths are happening. If you live in a red state, your chances of dying from Covid are much higher than if you live in a blue state for one reason only—more people are vaccinated in blue states. And even in red states, more older people have been vaccinated so the virus deaths are occurring among younger people.

Finding state-by-state analyses is time consuming. For example, you can use the NYT tracker to find state and country data. Just one example: the death rate in Iowa over the 14-day period is UP 13% and fewer than half the people are vaccinated. I suspect other red states are having similar increases. Why isn’t the media publicizing states where Covid is increasing instead of just reporting national statistics that are lowered significantly by those who got the vaccine? It is definitely in the public interest for people in states like Iowa to see that they’re dying at higher rates than in other states.

[TheRickles]

31. The CDC has an easy-to-use database that can be broken down, state by state.

Here's the link for a graph of weekly total deaths, aka all-cause mortality. I tend to follow this marker because it bypasses the question of whether people who died "with" Covid are being mis-labeled as dying "from" Covid in order to inflate the mortality numbers. These charts track all the people who died, period, regardless of how they died.

So if Covid was still wreaking havoc, that would be reflected by a spike in the total mortality figures. But according to the CDC, our death rates have returned to normal for this time of year.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm|

To check an individual state, go to "Select a jurisdiction" and choose your state.

[PurgedVoter]

21. The anti-vax population has not changed their behavior.

Those who were vaccinated were previously wearing masks and isolating. So, apart from the folk with sense being much safer, the idiots are still risking the lives of their children at the same rate. They are still a breeding ground for new variations and the same numbers of idiots that were ignoring the issue are still ignoring the issue.

The real question is where the money and orders are coming from that are keeping the right wing propaganda running. Is it all from Russia? Or is there still a secret circle of eugenics fans among the wealthy who see this as the way to relieve environmental issues and population pressures while reducing the stupid at the same time?

Funny to think that there might actually be evil Nazi eugenics fans running the right wing propaganda with the purpose of eliminating the right wing.

[not fooled]

34. I'm going with

Thom Hartmann's theory: pukes want the pandemic to continue in order to weaken Biden's presidency. Thousands of needlessly dead Americans are just collateral damage in the quest to gain more power.

Propagandizing their supporters to refuse vaccination--wherever the propaganda emanates from--is their vehicle to keep people dying and the economy weakened as much as possible. They want to be able to say that significant numbers of people died during Biden's presidency, so he's no better than red don.

[wnylib]

60. Kind of self-defeating if it's their own

followers who are dying at higher rates than the rest of us.

[not fooled]

61. I'm sure some sociopathic

number-cruncher in their ranks has done the calculations and concluded that it's a net positive, especially given that they are counting on stopping a lot of people from voting from now on.

[Hortensis]

64. Social media's driving it and that's both an amazingly inexpensive

and power weapon and at this point largely self perpetuating. The herd's stampeding, just some occasional shots fired needed to keep it from slowing too much.

[progree]

22. I'm glad there was mention of the **RACIAL DISPARITY** in vaccinations, however fleeting the mention

Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia have adjusted rates below the national average. In the region, however, lower vaccination rates in the Black community have concentrated cases there to an extraordinary degree. Before vaccines, Black people were about one third of new covid-19 patients in Maryland and half in D.C.. In the latest data, Black people are just under half of the new cases in Maryland and more than 80 percent in DC.

Here is something I posted May 20 on that subject:


Stark racial disparities persist in vaccinations, state-level CDC data shows, CNN, 5/20/21
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/20/health/racial-disparities-covid-19-vaccinations/index.html

There is a table/graphic showing most states as well as the national average.

Percentage of people who have received at least one dose of a covid vaccine

The national average is: Black: 22%, Hispanic: 29%, White: 33%, Asian: 41%, AmerIndian/Alaska Native: 45%

Of the states shown, the black rate lags the white rate in all but 2 states.

Many DUers have gleefully posted that they don't care if unvaccinated people die, they've all had plenty of opportunity to get their vaccinations, but chose not to, blah blah.

Here is the percent of people who have had NO DOSES of vaccines, i.e. the completely UNvaccinated (from sources dated May 15 and May 14 respectively):

Minnesota: 62% of Native Americans: 60% of African Americans, 60% of Hispanics, and 42% of whites [1]

Minneapolis: 72% of African Americans, 65% of Hispanics, and 29% of whites [2]

This one from the PBS Newshour (Friday May 14):

U.S. population overall that is NOT fully vaccinated (including children): 64%, African Americans: 72% [3]

So those who are gleefully rubbing their hands at the unvaxxed people croaking, and calling them idiots and assholes, let's contemplate the above statistics a bit. It's not just a redneck problem. Please see post#26 just below on some reasons for the racial/ethnic disparities

Sources: see https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=657128 . The Minnesota, and Minneapolis ones are the rates for adults 16 and over.

[progree]

26. Here's some reason for the disparity (it's not about disproportionately being idiots or aholes)

# Fear of the side effects of the 2nd shot and can't afford to lose time from work (or don't dare ask their crappy employer for time off) to recover from the sickness

# Fear that it will cost them monetarily - when scheduling, virtually all pharmacies and some other systems ask for insurance information, even though they don't mandate it. Many people still think they or their insurance will be charged for the vaccine, and people who have high deductibles, or poor prescription drug coverage, fear the cost.

# There are people who don't have identification, or even fixed addresses. ... People may be afraid to avail themselves of the vaccines because they're afraid they'll be turned away and/or don't know where their information will be shared. For someone who is not legally in the United States that is terrifying. For someone who is homeless it's humiliating. That's why I LOVE the groups that explicitly say that insurance and identification are NOT required.

# among asylum seeking families I have heard: 1) concerns about the public charge rule being applied to vaccines, i.e. is if they make use of a free vaccine, it will affect their eligibility for a green card or path to citizenship. 2) concerns about the MIIC database, and the fact that they are asked for an address, and that it could be used to find and deport them. (I will add that with the MDH mobile bus clinics, we were allowed to use the location of the vaccine clinic for people that were concerned.)

# Distrust of government / white establishment - the Tuskegee syphilis experiment on blacks (there are many other examples of horrifying medical experimentation on people of color)

# Terrified of needles (not something that is disproportionately an issue with people of color, but its a reason why some people of all races and ethnicities are procrastinating or finding excuses to not get vaxed. Google: Trypanophobia )


Thoughts:

# If every vaccinating entity would state, in bold letters, that insurance and identification are NOT REQUIRED for vaccination we could print and share those notices, and people who learned (under the previous administration) to be fearful of disclosing their lack of insurance/identification might be more willing to put themselves out there and get the shot, even though it means they're now in the presence of people they perceive to be state officials.

Most of above from: https://www.facebook.com/groups/350853309230438/permalink/408745900107845/?comment_id=408904816758620

[LisaL]

32. Unless people work 24/7, you can get vaccinated on Saturday or Sunday.

You no longer need to make appointments to do it as far as I can tell. Basically, those who want to get vaccinated can now get vaccinated.
There are presumably all kind of excuses one can find for not getting vaccinated.

[progree]

35. Nowhere on my list did I say that it's hard to find a place to get vaccinated

My reference to time off from work is about fearing being sick for several days. There are plenty of stories like that, I've seen them on DU too.

There are presumably all kind of excuses one can find for not getting vaccinated.

I don't think they are all flimsy excuses. But presumably POC disproportionately make flimsy excuses? (I know you didn't say "flimsy" but I kind of thought that might be the gist)

[LisaL]

38. If they get covid, they will be presumably needing more time off work than a few days.

And nowhere in my post do I say anything about POC making more excuses.

[progree]

40. But POC are unvaccinated at a higher rate than whites, and #26 is all about reasons

that disproportionately affect people of color.

That's what my post #22 and #26 is about in its entirety.

I am tired of unvaccinated people being demonized and people cheering on their croaking when its an issue that disproportionately affects POC.

[MichMan]

43. Does that make policies that refuse admission to those not vaccinated unintentional discrimination ?

[progree]

48. Such policies would unarguably disproportionately affect POC, as long as they are disproportionatly

unvaccinated.

That said, it's not a perfect world, and we need such policies to protect the overall public health, which includes the health of all races and ethnicities.

[MichMan]

42. Why do so many keep posting that they are all RW anti science Trumpers that are unvaccinated ?

[progree]

44. Ideology. It doesn't fit our "progressive" memes that POC are less vaccinated, and its easier

to just blow it off.

I'm particularly dismayed when some are demeaning the reasons (e.g. #26) that explain some of the under-vaccination of POC. Seems like it's indirectly (or directly) demeaning POC.

[LisaL]

45. Obviously not all, but

a large number of RW Trumpers refuse to get vaccinated.

[MichMan]

47. All of the reasons in post #26 except the reference to Tuskegee, could apply to any ethnicity

[progree]

51. But all the reasons in #26 DISPROPORTIONATELY affect people of color (except fear of needles)

who disproportionately have higher rates of poverty (excepting Asians, unless the Census Bureau statistics are wrong). So the economic reasons disproportionately affect people of color. And who disproportionately work in low-wage service sector jobs (unless everything I've been reading is wrong).

And certainly the problems of the undocumented fearing deportation are overwhelmingly a POC issue.

As for Tuskegee, actually, medical experimentation has been used on people of all races / ethnicities in the U.S., e.g. incarcerated or confined to mental institutions back in the day.

[MineralMan]

27. I'm not at all surprised.

I had hoped that information would help people make the decision to get vaccinated, but apparently it's not work with some people.

[Hortensis]

62. Yes, and give it time, of course. Hot spots of unvaccinated social clusters

will become increasingly obvious, and with it realization that vaccinated "others" can't protect them from transmission among their unvaccinated friends. The sooner the better.

[AllyCat]

30. I have taken care of a half dozen covid patients in the last month

All but one were unvaccinated. The one that was vaccinated didn't get as sick as her boyfriend who was not vaccinated. She felt good.

It is still out there folks. Us HCWs are almost all vaccinated (but a few are still believers of woo). None of us have gotten sick or tested positive. And we work with these folks all the time. The vaccine, from our facility viewpoint, works.

[RegularJam]

33. It's going to be like the flu shot in ten years.

Annual with a group determining which strains will be dominant that year.

[ornotna]

66. I sent this to my oldest son

He's the only one unvaccinated in my family. Said he's getting one tomorrow. I hope he follows through.