For those who trash the Democratic Brand... just leaving this here:

[Budi]

Link to tweet

Just FYI

People who think the Democratic leadership needs to "do more" or "play hardball":

What exactly do you want them to do?

Be specific, and be sure to look up the rules and procedures for your suggestion before you reply.
**********
People trashing “Democrats” are doing the GOP’s messaging work.

If you want to call out specific people (Schumer, Sinema, Manchin, etc), that makes more sense.

“Democrat” is a brand - and the vast bulk of Dems in elected office are doing amazing work.

Just be more specific.

[PortTack]

1. Thank you thank you!! Have said the same many times

This is not the time for arm chair politics. We have been thru some very dark times and our dem leaders have stood strong and seen us thru.

They need and deserve our support!!

[onecaliberal]

3. 👆🏻

[Budi]

5. The difference is in trashing the Democratic Brand vs specific people within the Party

I believe the OP twitter statements made clear the difference.

[GulfCoast66]

10. That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works!

Biden is doing all he can by putting his people in place in the areas he controls. Which is a lot.

But we have a 5 vote majority in the house and a tie in the Senate. WTF is Joe supposed to do?

Doesn’t matter what Joe or you want. Until we elect a congress that’s wants Universal Healthcare, enforced voter rights and on and on and on, we will not get it.

Nothing a president can do to change it.

We wasted a hell of a chance in 08 to go big. But we could not get all 60 democratic senators to agree. I doubt Obama could have convinced the Democratic Senators to supporters it.

I don’t think we will ever have a filibuster proof majority in my life. So unless voters make representatives pay a price for not supporting liberal policies nothing will change.

You want to action soon? What can Biden do?

You want action. What do you want to happen? Joe to declare the stuff we all want by fiat? That’s not happening. It’s one thing to bitch about a problem. It’s another to come up with solutions.

[StarfishSaver]

34. False choice

Recognizing that Biden and the Democrats can't wave a magic wand and deliver each of us a Shetland pony and sitting around doing nothing are not the only two alternatives.

But this "Democrats are weak" claims are one of the reasons we're in this situation. Back in 2010, too many Democrats hollered and moaned about how Democrats ain't sh&t, talked Democrats around the country down and refused to go out and vote. And then Republicans took back the House and took over statehouse across the country, took control of redistricting, gerrymandered districts, etc. And then in 2014, naysayers did the same thing and let the Senate go Republican.

Democrats have been busting their asses taking back the House, the White House and Senate and now we have many of the same whiners doing their best to tear down the Democrats who are doing everything in their power to hold this fragile ship together and keep it moving forward - and demanding they behave like we have an overwhelming majority, which we don't.

But since you are so sure the Democrats can do better, why not answer the OP and explain exactly what the Democrats should be doing differently - but be sure to explain it within the reality of the existing rules and procedures they have to work within.

[StarfishSaver]

41. That's the ultimate cop out of armchair exoerts

They bitch and moan from the sidelines as as if they're experts but when pressed to say what they would do differently, they suddenly pretend to be helpless observers with neither a clue nor any obligation to say what they'd do differently.

If you don't know enough to come up with an answer for what they should be doing differently, maybe you don't know enough to trash them for not doing their jobs as well as you think they should.

[StarfishSaver]

46. Do you do anything more than vote in elections and trash Democrats in between?

It doesn't take any strength, courage or smarts to vote every couple of years and
then scream about what the Democrats are or aren't doing. And that screaming is particularly empty when the screamer can't come up with a single concrete suggestion for what Democrats should do differently.

Claiming "Democrats need to get their dissenters in line by whatever means necessary and pass their agenda" is not a concrete suggestion. But let me guess - you have no idea how they should accomplish this feat, right?

FYI one of the things that makes us not Republicans is that we don't force our "dissenters into line by any means necessary" even if we could.

[live love laugh]

50. +1

[StarfishSaver]

61. Lol!

Going from bragging that "I do my part!" to whining and cursing that "what I do or don't do is none of your business" when asked just what that "part" might be is among the most petulant and laughable responses I've seen on DU in some time.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[StarfishSaver]

64. Nice try

Pathetic, but nice.

Since you seem to have spent quite a bit of time and effort researching me (a little weird, but whatever), you should already have the answers to your questions about what I do, if you're really interested.

And since I have never proclaimed to have a goal of educating anyone on time management skills, your demand that I explain myself to you is just as ridiculous as your previous posts.

[StarfishSaver]

66. It was certainly better than yours

Run along now.

[George II]

75. Looks like someone is keeping a little black book on some member here, eh? Weird is being nice.

[StarfishSaver]

104. Indeed

Looks like they realized that being so obvious about such an intense interest in another member is probably not a good idea.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

77. We lost a number of seats in 2020 that we should had won

It would have been nice not to have candidates lose winnable races due to be saddled with losing issues like "defund the police." I saw the effect of this slogan in a couple of state house races. Right now the GOP is about to cram a horrible voter suppression law down our throats and it would have been nice to have not lost some winnable seats.

I and a good number of Democrats are working to turn a red state blue. Texas is moving in the right direction which is why the GOP is going all in on voter suppression. Democrats will probably not be able to block this law but we are still fighting like crazy. I still feel good about flipping Texas and hope that the GOP help us with some infighting and a possible primary of Greg Abbott.

I have been happy and impressed with what Joe and the Democrats have accomplished so far. We are moving in the right direction and attacking the party accomplishes nothing.

[GulfCoast66]

36. That's just bullshit. Except for tax cuts republicans got nothing done. At all.

Yeah, a bunch of executive orders which Joe is rapidly overturning. Other than that, nothing.

Until we elect a solidly Democratic majority in Congress there is little a Democratic president can do.

[GulfCoast66]

40. Right. Because they had the votes in the Senate.

See how it works?

You win elections you get your way. H

Makes my point. If Biden gets to appoint justices they will go thru.

[StarfishSaver]

42. And one of the reasons they were able to do that

is too many Democrats behaved just the way people are in this thread - viciously tearing down Democrats in 2010 and 2014 and letting Republicans take back the House and Senate.

[Cha]

74. So True!

[Cha]

70. TY Gulfcoast.. Well Said!

[Crunchy Frog]

17. +1000.

[wnylib]

21. Agree that we can discuss issues among ourselves.

We do not always have to agree. But too often I have read posts that trash our leaders for not doing x, y, or z without the poster comprehending that their idea of what should be done is not possible, has secondary unwanted consequences, or is already being done but not publicized. I remember complaints during the 2020 campaign that Dems were not "doing" enough or not doing the right things necessary to win. Meantime, while they were whining, other party members, like Stacey Abrams, were working their asses off to get out the vote, win a southern state, and give us a majority control of the Senate.

Complaining is easy. Finding solutions and working to bring them about is more difficult but more rewarding in the end. After all, WE are the party. If we want something done, if we want results, then we need to identify what we can do, as individuals in our own communities, and as groups with other party members. Don't underestimate the value of local work to change attitudes among voters, to support good candidates, and to have national results. That's what Ms. Abrams did in Georgia.

To paraphrase one of our own leaders, "Ask not what your party can do for you. Ask what you can do for your party "

[StarfishSaver]

35. This

[betsuni]

44. +1

[Cha]

71. Exactly.. "..complaining is easy.." especially

without knowing the rules.

My personal favorite. "it's not fast enough.."

[wnylib]

73. Like kids wanting instant gratification.

[LenaBaby61]

25. "I have an expectation from the Biden administration."

If I wanted to be a blind follower of a party without input or comment - I’d be a Republican. That’s not trashing Dems. That’s stating my opinion."



I've gotten tons of emailers begging for monies from various Democratic organizations, and I used to give what I could give. But now, I have to watch my pennies. I mean, what good does it do to send them money and the GQP seems to be getting stronger? Also, when I was married earlier in life I didn't even agree with my husband 100%. My late parents bought me life, and I didn't agree with them 100% Yet, I have to agree with everything the Dems say and do?

Uh no, not in this nor any other lifetime.

My ass is fully grown, and in my 60's.

[George II]

54. Specifically?

[ansible]

68. I've gotten my posts deleted over Biden's actions on deportations and student loan forgivness

Apparently campaign promises mean nothing for some here.

[Budi]

81. 😭

[betsuni]

58. Four months? "So campaign platforms mean absolutely nothing as soon as a candidate takes office?"

[Budi]

82. Man, the crazy shit kids say nowadays, huh.

I.Want.It.NOW!
Or.Else!

[ChrisF1961]

33. Frustrated after 4 months???

If we were 2 years in, I would be frustrated too. But after only 4 months seems premature.

[kacekwl]

53. Yep n/t

[George II]

55. What results are you looking for? Remember, Biden has been President for just FOUR months!

"Rome wasn't built in a day"

What specifically are you frustrated about?

Is it:

More than half the country has been vaccinated?
1.5 million jobs have been created?
$1.9T has been passed for economic recovery?
Schools are reopening?
Construction of the wall has stopped?
Agreements with Ecuador and Guatemala have been reached to reduce migrants?
Troops in Afghanistan are being removed and are at their lowest in 20 year?
US back in the Paris climate accords?
We have the most diverse cabinet and administration in history?

WHAT ARE YOU FRUSTRATED ABOUT?

[Cha]

72. So Much Has Been Accomplished in Just 4 Months!

I'd like to know, too.. specifics of .. What's Not Fast Enough?!

TY

[sheshe2]

4. I hope you get better responses...

I posted this tweet as well along with this tweet. Did ya know, Schumer only needs to snap his fingers to get things done.

Link to tweet

My OP went nowhere and the few posts? I got had no specifics.

Good luck.

[Budi]

7. Considering what condition President Obama left America in and what Biden must now correct ...

...after 4 yrs of total & intentional dismantling of all America has stood for, by tRump, , I believe NO ONE has the right to criticize President Biden, just 4 months into that correction.

And to take a hammer to DEMOCRATS is equally questionable as to who the Fks side are they really on.

Give Biden & his Democrats as much time as was given tRump.

Btw, I see Tara Reade is back shilling her story on RT, OAN & predictably so, those who shoved her lies are back doing the same to vilify our President Biden & of course those Democrats who stand by him.

Fringe hate groups are full on the path that gave us tRump in the 1st place.
That was always their goal, then & now.

You're either with us or you are against the salvation of our Democracy.
Biden & his Democrats have had 4 months, give them the same 4 years they all granted tRump in 2016.

Broadbrushing he Democratic Brand is straight up playing the GOP's game.

[ShazzieB]

12. The RWNJ media are desperate to get some "dirt" on Biden, by hook or by crook.

They just can't with the fact that he's actually a smart, competent, decent, civil, kind, caring person (i.e., all the things their orange idol is not). That really sticks in their craw, and they're willing to go to any lengths to try to make him look bad. Ms. Reade wouldn't get nearly so much attention from them if they had anything real on him.

[Budi]

15. Thank You. You say it all with truth.

[Nexus2]

27. Schumer could force a speaking filibuster? [nt]

[betsuni]

48. Why didn't Daddy snap his fingers and do it? He should have! He could have!

He promised!



Again, the myth that Democrats can do anything they want but they secretly don't want to do anything progressive because they're corrupt. Public figures who spread this lie, that gullible people believed, should be ashamed of themselves.

[betsuni]

6. Democrats are trashed as "centrists" "corporate Dems" same as Republicans, corrupt, but

if you asked who exactly they're talking about, nothing. It's refreshing to finally, finally have two actual names named: Manchin and Sinema.

"What exactly do you want them to do?" is the question. It's not an action movie.

[Budi]

8. K & R Thank You!

It's the same coded wording that gave us tRump & the edge our Democracy hangs onto, today.
The edge of the cliff they assisted, via seating Donald tRump, in shoving our Democracy over.

Those coded words still circulate in shoving us over that same cliff as President Biden & his brilliant team of Democrats gather as a greater force than those who insist on burning it all down.
We will have Biden & his Democrat's Democracy, or we will have tRump's Authoritarian gov't.

There are only those 2 choices as to who's side is preferred.
They continue to show their hand in the same coded words that brought our Democracy to the edge.

[betsuni]

22. What is the deal with people whining about promises? "But Daddy promised!"

Are they five years old?

[Budi]

26. Like 5 yr olds they were promised a participation gift bag full of free stuff.

In a 5 yr old's fantasy world that sounded great! Until the fantasy of promises, met reality.

Then they got tRump. And now Dad is s'pose to fix it & make it better. And give them the gift bag of free stuff. Or Else!!
🙄

Who the heck messed with that bunch of 5 yr olds anyway.

[George II]

60. I went to the dentist Wednesday and they forgot to give me my little bag with a toothbrush...

....little tube of toothpaste and dental floss.

I'll never vote for that dentist again!!!

[NurseJackie]

76. Did you at least get a "NO CAVITIES / PERFECT CHECKUP" sticker?

[George II]

97. I wish!!!!

[Budi]

80. K & R

[UpInArms]

9. Been saying the same thing

Anyone saying different needs to go look in the mirror.

[Grokenstein]

11. Just one problem...

This is all they see.

[UpInArms]

13. Ewwww

Thanks for that .... I think

[ShazzieB]

14. Omfg, that's... disturbing.

Very apt and funny as hell. But also disturbing.

[Budi]

16. Ain't that the truth.

👍

[GulfCoast66]

18. One thing to remember when you think we have the upper hand

Had McCain not rejected the repeal of the ACA under reconciliation it would be gone. And he is dead and no one like him is taking his place. Imagine the senate in the first 2 years of Trump administration with no filibuster power. When they had the house as well. Ugly.

Senators are reluctant to give up the filibuster because they might be minority party after the next election. Which we may well be.

[Budi]

19. It's an extremely fine line worth consideration.

Thanks

[Elessar Zappa]

57. That's true but

I do think Repubs will definitely get rid of it if they regain power. We might as well do it before them and get some stuff done. And I’m not blaming Democrats for inaction, I’m blaming Manchin and Sinema specifically.

[speaknow]

20. What do I want the Dems to do, first go to the nearest

Hospital and get a spine. After they get their spine,
Stop saying we want to work with the Repub when
those SOB's say they are not interested.
Stop delaying what has to be done, move forward
in what we want done. And above all tell the DOJ
stop kissing up to Barr. And by the way get rid of
any left over Repubs. Maybe I'm asking to much.

[Budi]

24. Dems, Dems, Dems. Stop trashing the entire Democratic Party.

Re-read the OP twitter post.
This is exactly what they are saying.

All the Dems? Some of the Dems? Which Dems are you specifically speaking of?
Because there are a majorityy of Dems who have been steadily & diligently been putting in the effort to correct the extreme dismantling of our Democracy by 4 yrs of tRump.

They may not be in the Media headlines & not the ones tootin' their own horn of disgust toward the "do nothin Democrats' for likes on a daily fundraising email, but gddammit, they are the heros who will hold the line in correcting the pages of what tRump ripped from our US Constitution.

*************

"What do I want the Dems to do, first go to the nearest
Hospital and get a spine. After they get their spine,
Stop saying we want to work with the Repub when
those SOB's say they are not interested.
Stop delaying what has to be done, move forward
in what we want done. And above all tell the DOJ
stop kissing up to Barr. And by the way get rid of
any left over Repubs. Maybe I'm asking to much."

Try again to be more specific. ALL DEMOCRATS? THE entire Democratic Brand?
Is that what you're claiming to be the problem?
Democrats?

Re-read the OP & start over.

Thank you.

[GulfCoast66]

29. Yes, you're asking too much.

Getting rid of the filibuster with no likelihood of holding the Senate for years on end ls crazy. Politicizing the DOJ after years of criticism of the Trump administration for so doing is crazy.

I have no doubt many American white folks and even more Evangelical define real Americans as white and Christian. Because I know them. But we can’t because then.

[StarfishSaver]

39. You're not asking too much. You're just throwing out a bunch of nothing

"Getting a spine," "tell DOJ to stop kissing up to Barr," "move forward," and "getting rid of left over Republicans" aren't actual actions.That's just the kind of stuff the loudmouth at the end of the bar spews when he's complaining about politicians. It says nothing and means nothing.

It's easy to scream and complain about what the Democrats aren't doing. But I haven't seen anyone here who's complaining come up with any actual thing the Democrats can do differently. It's all talk.

[wnylib]

43. Maybe you are missing the larger picture.

Dems in Congress have set the stage for us by offering cooperation on a commission. The Rs rejected that. Now we are free to establish a House select committee to handle investigations ourselves, without Rs to muck it up. When they complain about not being involved, we can point to their refusal.

Or, we can appoint a special prosecutor.

Why complain before seeing what Pelosi et.al. will do next? Such demands for instant gratification are precipitous. We have a good set of leaders. Let's show them some trust. They are experienced and they know what we are up against. We don't need to do the Republicans' trashing of Dems for them. They are quite capable of doing that on their own.

[betsuni]

52. What does "get a spine" mean?

[sheshe2]

84. It is a slur most often used against Democrats.

[betsuni]

85. I wasn't aware hospitals are giving away spines.

But only to Democrats I guess.

[sheshe2]

88. I haven't heard of it either.

It must be a new medical procedure. Or I guess they can "Grow a Spine" on their own if they really put their minds to it.

Wait one second. I got it they can go off tho see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz!

[betsuni]

106. I wonder if anyone will advise Democrats to go to the hospital for a "complacency" removal.

I keep hearing that Democrats are complacent as well as spineless. I guess Republican authoritarian ideologues who don't dare vote against the party line, whatever it is, seem to have nice strong spines to some people.

[sheshe2]

108. Well..

I feel complacent
Oh so complacent
I feel complacent and in need of therapy
And I pity
Any girl who isn't me today

I feel spineless
Oh so spineless
It's alarming how spineless I feel
And so spineless
That I feel I need surgery

[betsuni]

109. ...

[Roy Rolling]

23. Normally....

I detest underserved and brand loyalty. But in this case, supporting Democrats 100% is warranted regardless of any flaws.

Why?

Because Republicans do it, and expect Democrats will try a different, “Kumbaya” approach and fail. Republicanism is built on them being superior organizers and business people and wealth. Now, the wealth is given by a select few in gigantic amounts and the rest of the Republicans are incompetent and corrupt managers like Trump. Their business success has been a sham, it’s built on corruption and government manipulation.

They don’t realize when Democrats take the wheel of the bus things get better always. And this time, with the super success of Democrats and Biden so far, I’m not gonna let the Republicans get near the steering wheel again, and expect the Democratic Party to be my partner in making that happen. Regardless of individuals within that party who I may disagree with at times.

[StarfishSaver]

30. THANK you!!!

[rownesheck]

49. I think the problem is

it seems when republicans have slim majorities they act like they have huge majorities and change rules in order to force through what they want (tax cuts for wealthy and unqualified judges). When democrats have majorities, it seems they keep trying to play by the rules and find "common ground" and do things in a bipartisan way. The frustration from democratic voters comes from watching this occur. Why can't our leaders change the rules and force things through? Our side actually has the vast majority of public support.

[StarfishSaver]

107. One thing people keep forgetting

The Republicans are a monolith who all walk in lockstep, so it's not difficult keeping them in line and happy. Democrats are a diverse party with people all across the spectrum. When folks talk about "getting everyone in line," whose line are they talking about? Do they expect Bernie Sanders and Tammy Duckworth and Joe Manchin and Cory Booker to always think exactly alike on everything? If they aren't all on the same page, who decides who is on the right page and who should be beaten into submission or punished if they don't comply?

We are not Republicans. And I don't want us ever to even try.

[ck4829]

51. I think the thing to ask here, to everyone, EVERYONE, is... "What are YOU doing to play hardball?"

I'm flagging Craigslist job ads that are just outright pathetic - The minimum wage jobs that are physically demanding but where the employees are probably treated like trash - The kind of toxic "employers" that will benefit from the Republican cuts to unemployment payments. I'm watching them get removed from listings.

I'm getting far-right groups caught in my spam honeypot email lists.

I'm deplatforming hate. There is a certain satisfaction reporting tweets that say violent things about the groups the right wants to disenfranchise. I really do aim to "raise the cost" when it comes to them saying Rep. Ilhan Omar should be doused in pig's blood, a very common thing they like to scream about.

I'm getting the "white nationalist terrorist" label they don't want to talk about out there.

There is no "sit back and enjoy the show", our Democracy is not a spectator sport, I challenge everyone out there who want others to do the fighting for them to lead or at least follow.

Critical Race Theory

[TheFarseer]

56. One observation I have

The Democrats tend to put their entire agenda for 4 years into one bill (obviously I'm exaggerating here) and the Republicans find a couple things in it they don't like and that they can sell to the American people as "bad" for lack of a better word and it doesn't get passed. Would it be possible to present a bill for a $9 minimum wage, more Pell grants, grants for trade school, eliminate the carried interest deduction, change taxes to encourage bringing jobs back to the USA, fund the IRS more to catch tax cheats etc etc as stand alone bills so we can actually get popular legislation passed?

[StarfishSaver]

62. I get your point, but

many people demand that Democrats "Go BIG!" - if they took this piecemeal approach, they'd be getting trashed, too, especially if some of those smaller pieces fell through the cracks. We'd be hearing all about how they should have done just what they're doing now.

There are different ways to get where we need to go. Democratic leadership has determined that this approach is the best way for now, but they can always shift to a different strategy if this doesn't work.

As I've said. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and lob criticisms, insults and attacks when you aren't responsible for coming up with or carrying out the plan. Not saying that's what you're doing, but too many people do just that and do it in ways that's damaging to the party and our interests.

[Cha]

69. I was thinking similar thoughts

yesterday.. Rt TY!

[wellst0nev0ter]

78. I want the Dem leadership to do the same thing to Manchin

that they did to Franken, short of pushing him out of office.

That is it.

Those who say the Dem leadership has no leverage are obviously too comfortable with constant defeat.

[StarfishSaver]

79. What exactly do you think they should "do" to Manchin "short of pushing him out of office"?

And explain how that will result in the Democratic agenda moving forward more effectively. Please be specific.

[Budi]

83. Right, I'm betting McConnell's just itchin to be Majority Leader again

"If only those Dems would get rid of Manchin, the world would be MINE!" mmmuuaaaahaahaa

[wellst0nev0ter]

87. Then let that fucking Liebercrat switch parties

Did coddling Lieberman and the rest of his ilk do the Democrats any favor in 2009-2010?

No it didn't. Doing nothing cost Democrats everything. Dems must do something here, lean in on Manchin and the rest of the holdouts, or they'll find themselves out of power, leaving Biden as nothing more than a veto machine.

In any case, if Manchin DID switch parties, his political career is over. Republicans won't vote for him since he voted to impeach the orange money TWICE. He'll be primaried out in a heartbeat.

He needs to understand his only political future is to stick with the Democrats and help us pass meaningful legislation.

[StarfishSaver]

90. I just love when Democrats come up with these kind of ridiculous "solutions"

Thankfully, party leadership knows better.

[wellst0nev0ter]

91. Just like they did in 2009-2010 n/t

[StarfishSaver]

95. You mean when they ended the recession, saved the economy, passed Obamacare, rescued auto industry

passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, passed the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, and repealed Don't Ask Don't Tell? (and that's just off the top of my head).

Yeah, just like they did then.

[wellst0nev0ter]

98. And lost the house? Then the Senate?

Democrats obviously didn't do enough to stay in control of government because they let Lieberman and his ilk call the shots.

Now this cavalier attitude is being repeated with Manchin, and I am done with hearing the same tired excuses and rationalizations.

Get the wayward Democrats in line, or lose again.

[StarfishSaver]

100. Two of the reasons we lost the House and then the Senate are 1) we WERE

successful and Republicans and the Tea Party rose up to fight back and 2) too many confused progressives whined and attacked and undermined Dems because nothing they did was ever good enough.

But that aside, politics is cyclical and no one stays in power permanently. The fact that we lost in 2010 and 2014 doesn't mean we didn't do good things in 2008 and 2009. And if you want to stick with that "we lost in 2010 so we didn't do enough to stay in power" argument, the fact that we took back the House in 2018 and the White House and Senate back in 2020 should tell you we're doing something right.

[betsuni]

102. Point #2:

"But even before he [Obama] was elected, I was driving with friends to a movie when the guy in the back seat, an old '60s radical, began ranting about how Obama was just a corporate shill, as bad as the Republicans. My heart sank. I knew what that meant. I went online and there they were, the baby-boomer radicals and their political descendants, all foaming at the mouth. ... At a MoveOn meeting after his first midterm election, the few radicals there were crowing that they had given him a few dollars but had not worked for him -- he was 'such a disappointment.' Right. In two years. all he'd done was prevent another Great Depression, save the auto industry and pass Obamacare, the first big addition to FDR's agenda since 1965.

"Just before his second midterm election, Michael Moore summed up the radicals' view: 'Mr. Obama, when the history is written of this era, this is how you'll be remembered: He was the first Black president. Okay, not a bad accomplishment, but that's it. A big disappointment.' No Republican could have been more damaging than this inside hit job. As his second term ended, the radicals shifted into overdrive, and after eight years of sabotage, we lost by a hair. ... Watching this unfold, I did my best to figure out how a small group of dedicated, well-intentioned politicos could repeatedly stymie the very changes they wanted. ... It was believing righteousness beats thinking."

Steven Stoft, Ripped Apart, How Democrats Can Fight Polarization to Win

[StarfishSaver]

103. Yep

I mean, really. The white guy saying, "Sure, you're the first Black president, but so what" really needs to STFU. Unfortunately, people listened to that idiot.

And they're now already starting the same crap with Biden. Interestingly, these people hold themselves out as some kind of political savants when many of the loudest and most critical ones are clearly clueless, ignorant, inexperienced and couldn't govern their way out of a paper bag if ever given the chance. Fortunately, they will never get anywhere near the mechanisms of politics or government. Their experience will forever be limited to sitting at their computers or, in the case of people like Michael Moore, showing up on television, talking crap about the people who are out here doing the real work.

[betsuni]

105. MM and the clueless will be out there predicting Republicans retake Congress,

which might happen, but they'll be completely, absurdly, wrong about why. Same "disappointed" "economic insecurity" "teach the Democrats a lesson" "both sides" song and dance that promotes cynicism, ignorance, anger at Democrats for no actual reason, voter apathy.

[mcar]

130. This is revolting

These idiots saw the same catastrophe we all saw and experienced, saw that President Obama and his team saved us from complete collapse, and threw it all away because they didn't get a pony.

[betsuni]

132. Righteousness beats thinking.

Being wrong never gets old for some people. I don't understand it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

110. Anyone with half a brain could have predicted a teahadist backlash to Obama

And of course the Democratic leadership can never fail, it can only BE failed by the dirtbag left.

The progressive wing of the Democratic Party has been loyal to Obama. The only Democrats voting against Obamacare or to weaken it have been the who's-who of the right-wing flank, including our favorite lawmaker Kristin Sinema. That flank also voted against the stimulus package and other pieces of Obama's agenda, you can check the voting records yourself.

No more giving cover to those in the Democratic caucus who will sabotage the president's agenda. We all need to call them out, pressure them, and shun them until they decide to vote the right way.

[StarfishSaver]

112. There's a difference between calling out "those in the Democratic caucus who will sabotage

the president's agenda" and accusing the president and the Democratic leadership and caucus (not just the recalcitrant members) of being spineless wimps who don't fight hard enough and are failures because they didn't immediately get every single thing certain people in the party wanted (on Obama's case, they were pissed that it didn't happen in the first year, in Biden's, they're already angry it hasn't happened in just the first four months). Plenty of people in the progressive left did - and are still doing - exactly that. To use your language, anyone with half a brain can see that.

[wellst0nev0ter]

113. In Obama's case, it is the right that sunk the legislative majorities

Too much time and political capital was spent to placate the Liebercrats and the so-called Republican moderates on Obamacare that pretty much everything else was put on the wayside. And in the end, Obamacare was structured in a way that the benefits were not immediately apparent until after the goops trashed the legislation and won both houses of Congress.

That was not a smart way of governing, and it is high time that Democrats learn the lessons from the past and get the rightwing holdouts in line.

[StarfishSaver]

118. Go back and look at what happened in 2010

Many in the progressive left turned on Obama and the Democrats - just as many are sowing seeds for doing the same thing to Biden and the Democrats. The targets may have changed, but the language and complaints are identical.

[wellst0nev0ter]

121. Look at the legislative record

Those who have actually opposed Obama when it actually counted in passing bills were the right wing of the party, including Sinema.

Those are the facts, you can choose to accept them or not.

[StarfishSaver]

124. Sinema voted against bills Obama supported in 2010?

I'll bet that will come as a surprise to Obama. And definitely a surprise to Sinema, who wasn't even in the U.S. Congress at the time.

In case you go back and edit, this is what you wrote:

Look at the legislative record
Those who have actually opposed Obama when it actually counted in passing bills were the right wing of the party, including Sinema.

Those are the facts, you can choose to accept them or not.

But, please, go on and share more of your interpretations of the "legislative record " It's very interesting.

[wellst0nev0ter]

126. Read and learn

On Thursday, Congress voted to gut the employer mandate of the Affordable Care Act aka “ObamaCare” with a bill to define full-time work at 40 hours a week (from the current 30 hour standard).

The bill passed largely along party lines on a 252-172 vote, with Arizona’s Kyrsten Sinema voting with the Arizona GOP delegation (Congressman Ruben Gallego was not present for the vote, as he was with President Obama touring his district in Phoenix on Thursday).

https://blogforarizona.net/kyrsten-sinema-votes-with-the-gop-to-gut-the-employer-mandate-under-obamacare/

[StarfishSaver]

128. We were talking about how Democrats lost majorities in 2010.

Bringing up something that Sinema did in 2015 is completely beside the point of discussion.

[wellst0nev0ter]

129. The point of that post

Was about "those who have actually opposed Obama when it actually counted," and your friend Sinema was one of them.

[mcar]

94. Wait, you want McConnell to be Majority Leader?

Yeah, that'll teach those Dems.

[wellst0nev0ter]

114. Joe Manchin can't switch parties

Unless he wants to retire in 2024. Trumpanzees won't vote for someone who impeached 45 twice.

[mcar]

131. So what are you talking about, then?

[wellst0nev0ter]

133. McConnel will not get control of the Senate

You can connect the dots yourself.

[wellst0nev0ter]

86. From Jane Mayer's Al Franken piece

On December 1, 2017, seven female Democratic senators—Gillibrand, Kamala Harris, Claire McCaskill, Mazie Hirono, Patty Murray, Maggie Hassan, and Catherine Cortez Masto—met with Chuck Schumer to tell him that most of them were on the verge of demanding Franken’s resignation. At least one of them had already drafted such a statement, and the group’s resolve hardened further when some of its members learned of an impending Politico story that contained a seventh allegation, by a former Senate staff member. The accuser, whose name is being withheld at her request, was known to some of the seven female senators. The woman said that, in 2006, when Franken was still a comedian, he had made her uneasy by looking as if he planned to kiss her. The senator she had worked for hadn’t known of the allegation at the time, but vouched for her credibility.

(snip)

Soon after Gillibrand declared that Franken must resign, Senator Murray, who is in the Democratic leadership, made the same call, sending a signal to colleagues that the push was coming from the top. The Rhode Island senator Sheldon Whitehouse, a friend of Franken’s, recalls being astonished that there had been no emergency meeting of the Democratic caucus. “A reasonably organized group of our caucus decided to do this without giving their own colleagues a heads-up,” he said. “This was about demanding that a member of our own caucus resign from the Senate. It was a big deal.” From that point on, he said, “it was like a slow-rolling stampede through the day, waiting to see who would bolt next, with no meeting, no hearing, no process.”

Franken asked to meet with Schumer, who suggested talking at his apartment in downtown D.C., in order to avoid the press. “It was like a scene out of a movie,” Franken recalled. Schumer sat on the edge of his bed while Franken and his wife, who had come to lend moral support, pleaded for more time. According to Franken, Schumer told him to quit by 5 p.m.; otherwise, he would instruct the entire Democratic caucus to demand Franken’s resignation. Schumer’s spokesperson denied that Schumer had threatened to organize the rest of the caucus against Franken. But he confirmed that Schumer told Franken that he needed to announce his resignation by five o’clock. Schumer also said that if Franken stayed he could be censured and stripped of committee assignments.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

The other Democratic senators ganged up on Franken and pushed him to resign. Schumer threatened to take away his committee assignments and censure him.

It's really not that hard for all the Democrats who matter to do the same thing to Manchin and get him to do what needs to be done.

[StarfishSaver]

89. You said they should do what they did to Franken short of forcing him to resign

And then cited an article that explained how they forced Franken to resign.

And no, threatening to take away his committee assignments and censure him is not even close to being a possibility. Manchin has done nothing illegal or immoral or even inappropriate. He has every right to vote however he chooses or how his constituency wants him to, even if we don't like his choices. Party leadership is NOT going to censure him or remove his committee assignments because they don't like the way he votes - That is a slippery slope you DON'T want to start down - unless you'd be happy having Schumer remove Bernie Sanders' committee assignments the next time he doesn't vote the party line or Pelosi censure AOC if she keeps pushing an agenda the moderate Dems don't like.

And, of course, that doesn't even get to the fact that such a move would result in every single Democrat losing their committee chairmanships because McConnell would becoming Majority Leader and Republicans would get the Senate back thanks to the Democrats driving Manchin out of our party and right into their arms.

[wellst0nev0ter]

92. If the way a member of the caucus votes will cost them power

Then the Democratic leadership better do everything to pressure the holdouts.

You saw what they did with Franken, they have the toolbox to do it.

Doing something is better than doing nothing. And Manchin is not going to switch parties if he knows what's good for him.

[StarfishSaver]

96. No. That's not how it works

Parties don't censure Members or take away committee assignments because "the way a Member votes will cost them power."

At least Democrats don't.

That may be how Republicans operate, but one of the things that makes us not Republicans is that we don't do stupid sh*t like Republicans do.

And you are living in la-la-land if you believe that Manchin would no switch parties if Democrats treated him like that. And it wouldn't hurt him one bit. He'd be a hero in West Virginia and have a guaranteed seat for as long as he wanted.

But, as I said, fortunately no one in any decision-making position is listening to the people on DU who are coming up with these bizarre "solutions."

[wellst0nev0ter]

99. So Repukes know how to keep members in line, but Dems don't?

Because that's what I'm reading here.

No, we don't have to copy exactly what the goops are doing, but the Democratic leadership need to start wielding the same kind of pressure on Manchin that got Franken to resign.

And if you really think Manchin will be a "hero" in West Virginia, think again. He switches parties, the trumpanzees aren't going to want him since he voted TWICE to impeach 45. Manchin would be primaried in a New York minute. And of course, no Democrat will want a turncoat, unless you're living in la-la land.

Doing something is way better than your proposal of doing nothing.

[StarfishSaver]

101. Do you want Democrats to "keep Members in line" the way Republicans do?

I don't.

And you seem confused. Not doing the stupid things that you're proposing is not the same thing as doing nothing.

Fortunately, as I said, the Democrats are neither stupid nor do they think that turning into Republicans is a good idea.

[wellst0nev0ter]

111. Keeping Democrats in line is not turning into Republicans

Keeping Democrats in line is how you be a true governing party.

Some people might be comfortable with inertia and ineffectiveness, and they may think that is a good message to take to the voters next year, but others like me have actually learned from the mistakes from the last Democratic administration.

[StarfishSaver]

116. You keep taking about "getting them in line" but have offered no suggestions for doing that

besides stripping them of committee assignments and censure, which is exactly the kind of steel baton tactics Republicans use. We don't do that and we shouldn't.

It's not party leadership's job - nor is it even close to appropriate - to smack members around because they don't vote the way the leadership wants. And I don't think you'd be so gung ho to see such tactics used on a senator or rep to force an outcome you didn't agree with.

And you really need to stop with the "if leadership doesn't go medieval on Manchin and Sinema, it means they're not doing anything" false equivalence. That's BS. Not doing what YOU want them to do and not doing ANYTHING are two different things. And claiming otherwise exposes the weakness of your entire premise.

Democrats are doing what they can with what they have within the reality we're in and they well know that bashing people about the head who don't go along with them is stupid and counterproductive, no matter how much some folks in the peanut section are screaming for blood.

[wellst0nev0ter]

117. Yes, it is the party leader's job to "snack members round"

Especially if Biden's agenda is on the line. You can either be successful or end up in failure. Democrats, if united, are capable of pressuring members to do what they want, just like they did with Franken. What was good for Franken is certainly good for Manchin. No more half measures.

[StarfishSaver]

119. Actually, it's not

But why am I arguing with someone who clearly hasn't the first clue how any of this works but thinks they're an expert?

Think whatever you want. It's not worth any more of my time or effort to try to enlighten you any further.

Enjoy your day.

[wellst0nev0ter]

120. What's the point of having party leaders if they don't lead

I'm sure the Democratic leadership understands how urgent the situation is and doesn't choose the path of least resistance, like what you are suggesting.

[StarfishSaver]

122. One of the reasons I'm a Democrat is that we don't think "leading" means forcing everyo in ourbranks

to do exactly what leadership wants and I'd we don't find ourselves subjected to harsh punishment and expulsion.

That's not leadership.

But you think it is, so whatever.

[mcar]

93. This doesn't make any sense

I want the Dem leadership to do the same thing to Manchin
that they did to Franken, short of pushing him out of office

What did the Dem leadership "do" to Franken, exactly?

[wellst0nev0ter]

115. Read the thread n/t

[treestar]

123. They might not have done anything to Franken

Had they not felt sure a Democrat would replace him.

[StarfishSaver]

125. Good point

[wellst0nev0ter]

127. They certainly wouldn't have touched Franken if he's a senator from NJ

Luckily, the charges against Bob Menendez was dropped, so removing him would have been a monumental, ACORN-level mistake. but he has to thank Chris Christie for being the governor.

In any case, the Democratic leadership should learn how to stop limiting punishment to easy political targets.