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Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 02:36 PM Jun 2021

NASA doubles down on Venus missions, asking what made the planet uninhabitable

NASA announced yesterday that it will fund two new missions to Venus to study its atmosphere and topography, both chosen from the Discovery Program.

...

DAVINCI+ will send a probe to determine the composition of Venus' atmosphere and whether it ever had an ocean, measuring noble gasses and taking pictures of the planet's surface on the way down. Beyond volcanos and clues of weathering history, the surface of Venus is covered in plate tectonic-like tesserae that DAVINCI+ plans to capture. It is yet to be determined whether Venus actually has plate tectonics, but the VERITAS project hopes to confirm this.

...

VERITAS will create a high-resolution map of Venus’ surface and infrared emissions by orbiting it with a synthetic aperture radar, in part to confirm whether plate tectonics and volcanos are still active. Suzanne Smrekar of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory is the principal investigator leading the team which hopes the mission will shed light on Venus’ rock type, geologic history and answer why it developed so differently than Earth.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/03/nasa_doubles_down_on_venus/

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NASA doubles down on Venus missions, asking what made the planet uninhabitable (Original Post) Klaralven Jun 2021 OP
My personal theory is Venus is uninhabitable because it lacks a substantial... Hugin Jun 2021 #1
Certainly not an implausible idea..... lastlib Jun 2021 #2
If it was possible to place an artificial moon, would that make Venus habitable? Irish_Dem Jun 2021 #3
Not for quite a period of time... Hugin Jun 2021 #4
How else could tidal cycles be established? Irish_Dem Jun 2021 #10
Pls see post #26 in this thread. n/t Hugin Jun 2021 #27
Thank you! Irish_Dem Jun 2021 #28
Probably not Sympthsical Jun 2021 #9
Thanks. Irish_Dem Jun 2021 #11
Yer welcome! Disaffected Jun 2021 #17
Yes the wealthy elite are trying to find a planet to terraform. Irish_Dem Jun 2021 #18
You got it it brother(sister)! Disaffected Jun 2021 #19
There is no mechanism whereby a moon of Venus Disaffected Jun 2021 #13
Ok thanks. Irish_Dem Jun 2021 #15
Or maybe it had a Republican government.... Dale in Laurel MD Jun 2021 #5
Leaving the planet in a global stagnation for billions of Venusian years. Hugin Jun 2021 #7
It's nearness to the sun could be why there's no moon. Mercury doesn't... brush Jun 2021 #12
Could be... Dale in Laurel MD Jun 2021 #20
Hmmm? Twin planets? There have been discoveries of such systems... brush Jun 2021 #21
Actually, my hypothesis is a triad of large scale events... Hugin Jun 2021 #26
There's been a lot of work on this sort of thing since Asimov was around... JHB Jun 2021 #29
The lack of a moon is irrelevant. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #25
I had a conversation with My Son The Astronomer about Venus. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #23
It's always seemed to me that the moon-induced tides were Dale in Laurel MD Jun 2021 #30
That is one hypothesis. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #33
My personal theory is Venus is uninhabitable because it lacks a substantial craft beer industry FSogol Jun 2021 #31
That, too. Hugin Jun 2021 #32
I wish they would rename The Veritas Project. Midnight Writer Jun 2021 #6
I'd be surprised if there were plate tectonics Sympthsical Jun 2021 #8
No plate tectonics on Venus PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #24
Volcanoes, send me a $10M check then fund real money drilling Europa and Enceladus for sea life!!! Shanti Shanti Shanti Jun 2021 #14
I'm reminded of Carl Sagan's Cosmos Ron Obvious Jun 2021 #16
According to My Son The Astronomer PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #22

Hugin

(37,848 posts)
1. My personal theory is Venus is uninhabitable because it lacks a substantial...
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 02:43 PM
Jun 2021

satellite such as Earth's Moon.

Hugin

(37,848 posts)
4. Not for quite a period of time...
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 03:15 PM
Jun 2021

Theoretically according to my hypothesis tidal cycles would need to establish themselves and become stable.

Could the necessary cycles be established via other means? Probably.

Sympthsical

(10,969 posts)
9. Probably not
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 03:41 PM
Jun 2021

Its rotation is very, very slow. 243 days. The atmospheric pressure and heat would melt lead. There's a lot wrong there.

Some people have posited creating floating habitations above the clouds. The temperature and pressure there are a thought. There have been several works of fictions about it. But the lack of oxygen and all the sulfur would be a thing.

It's a very pretty place. Also a pretty nightmarish one.

Disaffected

(6,403 posts)
17. Yer welcome!
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 06:03 PM
Jun 2021

Terraforming Venus is well nigh impossible with any foreseeable technology but Mars OTOH is somewhat feasible (in the far future) provided there is sufficient water present beneath the surface. FWIW, I believe Elon has that as a distant goal...

Irish_Dem

(81,271 posts)
18. Yes the wealthy elite are trying to find a planet to terraform.
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 06:13 PM
Jun 2021

Once they have trashed Earth, they will look for another place to live.

Disaffected

(6,403 posts)
13. There is no mechanism whereby a moon of Venus
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 04:29 PM
Jun 2021

could overcome the the extremely hostile conditions on the Venusian surface (hot enough to melt lead with an atmosphere 90 times more dense than on earth and composed mainly of CO2 with a good amount of sulphurous gasses added to the mix).

Dale in Laurel MD

(797 posts)
5. Or maybe it had a Republican government....
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 03:17 PM
Jun 2021

Seriously, the lack of a sizeable moon may have had a big influence.

Hugin

(37,848 posts)
7. Leaving the planet in a global stagnation for billions of Venusian years.
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 03:23 PM
Jun 2021

Heh. Yeah, I could see that.

It's something I've pondered. It could be true for Mars as well.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
12. It's nearness to the sun could be why there's no moon. Mercury doesn't...
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 03:47 PM
Jun 2021

have one either. The sun's more powerful gravitational pull could be the reason. Notice how the planets farther away from the sun have moons. Even Mars has two moons.

Dale in Laurel MD

(797 posts)
20. Could be...
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 06:26 PM
Jun 2021

Isaac Asimov once gave a mathematical proof that a moon for Mercury was impossible as there was no stable zone. If the moon was far enough out not to be pulled down to the planetary surface, it would be pulled into the sun instead.

The same article demonstrated that mathematically our moon can't be a satellite (too far away to be stable). Rather Earth and Moon must be a twin planet.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
21. Hmmm? Twin planets? There have been discoveries of such systems...
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 10:07 PM
Jun 2021

usually giant planets compared to earth because of the limitations of our detection equipment, but it's a possibility as most of the moons in our solar system are much smaller than their planets.

Hugin

(37,848 posts)
26. Actually, my hypothesis is a triad of large scale events...
Fri Jun 4, 2021, 11:19 AM
Jun 2021

The first step being "The Big Splat" where a very large mostly water bearing planetoid (it has a name in the literature, too lazy to look it up) collided with the proto-Earth. This event is thought to have created the Moon. Also, it left an unusually large amount of water for a planet in the inner Solar system.

Secondly, the advent of anaerobic microbial life capable of existing in a harsh acidic environment. (now, whether it formed on Earth or was brought here is an open question) One of the by-products of the metabolisms of these creatures is oxygen which turns out to be a requirement for other higher forms of life. This stage took a heck of a long time, but, eventually these critters had changed the Earth's atmosphere with their output to the point it became toxic to them and they became a minority life form in favor of oxygen tolerant microbes. But, that is a whole other hypothesis.

The role the large ratio Moon played in this whole thing is manifold. It acts to partially shield the Earth from large impacts. Which creates the large periods of relative climactic stability needed by organic and inorganic processes to form a consistent atmosphere. It also acts to gravitationally stimulate the various structures and stratigraphy of the Earth to keep it from 'dying'. Similar to what has happened on Venus and Mars. This stimulation by the large Moon is also thought to keep the water present and atmosphere on the Earth from 'evaporating' from the planet and diffusing into space.

I thought I'd add this clarification and depth to my hypothesis. Seeing as how I'm getting pretty beat up for having my own hypothesis and the audacity to post it on DU without some sort of credentials.

JHB

(38,213 posts)
29. There's been a lot of work on this sort of thing since Asimov was around...
Fri Jun 4, 2021, 11:32 AM
Jun 2021

I'm not saying he was wrong about Mercury, but I'd also look for more recent corroboration.

And the "twin planet" theory covers motion but not differences in composition. If I recall correctly, the current strongest theory is that early Earth shared an orbit with a Mars-sized planed. That's not stable long-term, and when they eventually collided most of the result formed the Earth, and much of what "splashed" into space and didn't fall back to Earth collected into the Moon. Still a "twin planet", but in a looser sense than in Azimov's day.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
23. I had a conversation with My Son The Astronomer about Venus.
Fri Jun 4, 2021, 10:41 AM
Jun 2021

Not having a moon is simply not a factor. It is simply too close to the sun. Period.

Over time the sun has gotten brighter and hotter, so a couple of billion years ago it would have potentially had livable conditions. I also asked him, if I could wave a magic wand, terraform it, how long would it remain habitable. He pointed out that one essential problem is that it doesn't have much variety in topography, and so it wouldn't be able to have oceans. But more to the point, it's so close to the sun that it would very quickly heat back up and be unlivable. Quickly as in perhaps a hundred years.

Our moon may well be a factor in life developing, because of tides and tidal pools, but it's probably not the only reason. Being as we are in the Goldilocks Zone is most important.

He's actually researching exoplanets, and some the approximate size and mass of Earth have been found. Now the trick is to figure out what kind of evidence of life would exist, and how to detect it from so far away.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
33. That is one hypothesis.
Fri Jun 4, 2021, 04:24 PM
Jun 2021

I'm not sure how widely it is believed these days. But even if Venus had a moon, it is still too close to the sun. And it has very little deep holes for oceans. Plus, it is so much closer to the sun that tidal forces would be a whole lot greater. But too close to the sun is the biggest problem.

FSogol

(47,623 posts)
31. My personal theory is Venus is uninhabitable because it lacks a substantial craft beer industry
Fri Jun 4, 2021, 02:24 PM
Jun 2021

Sympthsical

(10,969 posts)
8. I'd be surprised if there were plate tectonics
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 03:30 PM
Jun 2021

Given its lack of rotation, there isn't much a dynamo in the core. There's very little convection as well. But, one never knows. It's also this close to being tidally locked.

Still worth exploring.

 

Shanti Shanti Shanti

(12,047 posts)
14. Volcanoes, send me a $10M check then fund real money drilling Europa and Enceladus for sea life!!!
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 04:37 PM
Jun 2021

Go for the water!

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
16. I'm reminded of Carl Sagan's Cosmos
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 05:03 PM
Jun 2021

The Heaven and Hell episode is well worth watching again.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(28,493 posts)
22. According to My Son The Astronomer
Thu Jun 3, 2021, 11:06 PM
Jun 2021

Venus is simply too near the sun. A moon would not matter. Even plate tectonics wouldn't help. The planet actually rotates retrograde, 243 days. Its year is 225 days, so it takes more than a year for one rotation.

I did ask My Son The Astronomer what would happen if we could wave a magic wand and immediately give Venus an Earth-like atmosphere and the like. First off, the planet has few indentations that would be suitable for oceans. Even ignoring that, he thinks that within a century it would heat up enough as to be uninhabitable.

Early on in the solar system, Venus would have been in the Goldilocks Zone, and could hypothetically have had life evolve. But that time ended long ago, probably before any life could have realistically evolved. A shame, in a way, since in certain ways it really is a twin of Earth.

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