Leaving a cult

[Hippo_The_Pointer]

Over the past week I've spent some time watching videos of people who have left cults or the more extreme cult-like forms of religion. There are many such videos on YouTube and I thought I'd watch in an effort to understand the thought processes that make someone come to their senses and get out. Based on the 20 or more videos I watched this week (a small but hopefully representative set), here are some observations:

1) It took time. Of the ones I watched no on had a sudden epiphany and left, instead they had slowly growing doubts or concerns that built up over time (often 2 or more years)

2) They came to the conclusion they should leave on their own - So far I haven't come across a video in which the person leaving the cult got into an argument with an 'outsider' who convinced them to leave. Similarly I haven't found any so far where a family staged an 'intervention' to get some one out. Instead, inner doubts and questions built up within and the person started to do their own independent research that opened their eyes up to the outside world. I would guess some people have left after a well timed and expressed intervention, but so far I haven't found any such videos in my watch list.

3) The ages are mixed. There are many of younger people who left a cult that their parents had indicted them into, but somewhat surprisingly there are also quite a number of middle aged people who started to become disillusioned.

4) There were a number of common themes in the underlying rationale. One big one was how the cult approached LGBTQ rights. Some of the people leaving were closet LGBTQ themselves before they left. Others had LGBTQ family or friends who were marginalized, ostracized or otherwise mistreated by the cult. The other big one was that the person started to see the cult as hypocritical. They started to recognize that the words espoused by the cult leaders didn't match their actions.

5) I should also add that in the video's I watched, even through the people featured were at one time deeply embedded in their cult, they did not come across as stupid in their videos. In fact many of them seemed really intelligent (that is relative to me, which may not be saying too much . Rather than being stupid, they got swept up by the propaganda. Because cults isolate their members from the outside, those people then didn't recognize to begin with that they were even in a cult.

The reason I share the above is because I know I'm not alone in looking for ways to help a MAGA recover some sanity. What the videos I watched implied to me is that it takes time.

I also think that slowly, gently and subtly pointing out the hypocrisy maybe one way forward. Maybe that won't help for the hard core, but for those who are in the cult, but already having doubts or who are only marginal members, then using memes or other devices to gently point out the hypocrisy may be in part a solution. There are of course many different examples of the MAGA and Christo-fascist hypocrisy. I plan on looking at how best to communicate that hypocrisy for this week's video viewings.

For those who have a friend, colleague or family member who left a cult (even the MAGA cult) any other experiences that might help others who are trying to restore some sanity to their loved ones?

The Hippo

[underpants]

1. Thank you for your research.

As sad as this is it’s fascinating to watch.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. That is very interesting.

Thank you for sharing.

[ret5hd]

3. OK, so what I'm hearing is...

me and you are so stupid even wacky cults don’t want us.

(gawd I kill me. and I think your analysis is at least close to correct)

[Hippo_The_Pointer]

4. Would Trump U help?

Maybe to really tune into the MAGA cult we should attend some Trump U classes - Shudder - Maybe not

[cbabe]

5. Escape: A Memoir

by Carolyn Jessup about her heartwrenching, harrowing escape from Mormon sect.

Also, search for books about escaping from Scientology. Lots of titles.

[Hippo_The_Pointer]

12. Thanks for the book reference

Hi cbabe - Thanks for the book reference. I see there are a number of interviews with Carolyn online, I'll watch those first to get a flavor of things first.

[RussellCattle]

6. I think that your effort in analysing the process of leaving a cult is very well done. I've got....

....friends who are Trump supporters and, though I've never really considered giving up on them, I'm encouraged by the suggestion that some patience may be a long term solution.

[StarryNite]

7. Very well thought out post.

Thank you. And welcome to DU!

[drmeow]

8. In some ways a more accurrate comparisong

might be leaving violent extremist groups. RAND has a report about Al Qa'ida - MAGA has similarities: https://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_reports/TR785.html

[Hippo_The_Pointer]

11. Will read

Hi Drmeow - Thanks for the article I've had a quick flick through, but there is a lot there. I will have a full read through during the week.

[FreeState]

9. I was raised in a cult and left when I was in my 20s.

Most of my family is still involved with the cult (a high demand religion that requires complete devotion, massive amounts of time, a portion of your income I order to take part in sacred ceremonies etc.)

Probably the biggest thing people don’t understand is the pressure to stay in the cult is massive, usually from your family and friends (it’s unlikely you have many that aren’t involved in the cult and the ones you do are work friends). If you leave you lose connection and access to your family. Your seen as a huge disappointment and someone who’s gone “astray”.

This happens with Trump followers too. They don’t want to lose family of friends.

[Hippo_The_Pointer]

10. Need for acceptance

Hi Freestate - I can certainly see how the need to feel we belong and are accepted must be a powerful force that keeps many in their cult. We humans are in general social beings and loneliness and the fear of being rejected are powerful factors. As such those of us wanting to help a cultist leave or turn towards healthier options would need to consider how to make the leaver feel supported and accepted. You've given me some goof food for thought...Thanks

[TheBlackAdder]

13. Did a university research paper on that for one of my religion courses.

.

The person has to be completely removed from the span of control.

Unfortunately, this is not like being extricated and deprogrammed after leaving a small cult. Most Trumpers live in an are that is Trump country. Their family, neighbors, friends, church congregants, people in town and in the stores and restaurants, are all Trumpers. They can never really leave Trump to regain a sense of self. The community they are living in determines that. Most can not make a clean break, and won't. Their family that would normally perform the kidnapping and relocation to an undisclosed house where family love-bomb them back to counter the cult's love-bombing doesn't exist.

Religious conversions typically come at moments of undue and overwhelming stress, grief, or feelings of loneliness. Many cults operate at colleges, because that is often the first time students are away from their families, in a strange environment and subject to unchecked influences. They prey on people from fractured households or with no friends. It starts slowly, and the target is filled with a strong sense of self-worth and community and that makes them want to initially stay, and then afterwards, they slowly get assimilated into the cult. They would need another type of conversion to leave, or complete removal from all strings that connect them to the cult influence.

.

[cbabe]

14. Educated by

Tara Westover is another extraordinary book about escaping a family cult.

[NNadir]

16. Thanks. I wasn't aware of this book.

I had an aunt an cousins in a cult; and my sister-in-law is in one as well, as is one of her two daughters.

I may check it out.

Welcome to DU.

[myccrider]

15. My somewhat adjacent experience tends to support your research.

I spent several years participating in an on-line forum called talk.origins that consisted of people who argued with fundamentalist, anti-science believers about science. The main thrust was around biological evolution, but everything from astronomy to zoology (even the occasional flat-earther) came up for scrutiny at one time or another. Most of these people weren’t technically in cults, but their vociferous, blind beliefs based on deeply emotional attachments to worldviews that denied known facts is, imo, similar to cult-like thinking.

No one was convinced in some epiphany while we argued with them. But people would come back later (sometimes years later) and tell us that our arguments and evidence had planted a seed of doubt that eventually convinced them that the science was correct. As you report, that seed caused them to do their own independent research and self-reflection. Some left their fundamentalist religions, in part, because of our discourse. No one likes being duped.

We got a lot of feedback from the "audience" who just watched the arguments, too. Many of them said that they had also changed their outlooks.

Even though what you say to someone with these whackadoodle ideas may not seem to make a dent, you could still say something that starts the first stone of an avalanche rolling. I don’t know what the percentages for success are but the more people we can peel away, or just neutralize with doubts, the better...for them and for society as a whole.

I’d emphasize that yelling and name-calling didn’t seem to be the most successful approach, though. No matter how frustrated we got.

[usonian]

17. Kick

This gets to the heart of the matter quickly.

I just found several books on the subject, but who has time?
Just disempower the cult leaders RFN, and let people slowly realize how their lives have been taken away form them, not by the "enemy du jour" but by the scumbags manipulating them.

Steven Hassan
Combating Cult Mind Control

A former cult member, now a counselor helping those affected by destructive cults, Hassan exposes the troubling facts about cults' recruitment, their use of psychological manipulation, and their often subtle influence on government, the legal system, and society as a whole. This updated paperback edition includes a new preface by the author and an expanded bibliography and resource list.

Freedom of Mind

In the post 911 world, people are more susceptible than ever to charismatic figures who offer simple, black v. white, us v. them, good v. evil, formulaic solutions. The rise of the Internet; increasingly sophisticated knowledge about how to influence and manipulate others; and the growing vulnerabilities of people across the planet-make for a dangerous, potentially devastating combination. Dr. Steven Hassan's revised book, Freedom of Mind, provides the knowledge and awareness needed to help yourself and loved ones avoid or escape from such dangerous people and situations. The world has changed greatly in the last decade. The rise of the Internet, the emergence of global terrorism and of dangerous totalistic ideologies, and the shifts in global markets-these and other changes have created new opportunities for unscrupulous individuals, groups, and institutions to exert unethical control over others. Freedom of Mind exposes the techniques and methods that individuals, cults, and institutions of all types-religious, business, therapeutic, educational, governmental-use to undo a person's capacity to think and act independently. Meanwhile, people are becoming increasingly vulnerable. Sleep-deprived, overweight and looking to improve themselves, overloaded with often frightening images and information; anxious about the current economic decline, climate change, and government corruption on all levels. People are more susceptible than ever to charismatic figures who offer simple, black v. white, us v. them, good v. evil, formulaic solutions. Freedom of Mind book aims to fill the gap. It identifies and explains how to identify and evaluate potentially dangerous groups and individuals. Hassan details his groundbreaking approach, the 'Strategic Interactive Approach,' which can be used to help a loved one leave such a situation. Step-by-step, Hassan shows you how to: evaluate the situation; interact with dual identities; develop communication strategies using phone calls, letter writing and visits; understand and utilize cult beliefs and tactics; use reality-testing and other techniques to promote freedom of mind. He emphasizes the value of meeting with trained consultants to be effectively guided and coached and also to plan and implement effective interventions. The best way to protect yourself and your loved ones is knowledge and awareness.

The Cult of Trump

In The Cult of Trump, mind-control and licensed mental health expert Steven Hassan draws parallels between our current president and people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, Ron Hubbard and Sun Myung Moon, arguing that this presidency is in many ways like a destructive cult. He specifically details the ways in which people are influenced through an array of social psychology methods and how they become fiercely loyal and obedient. Hassan was a former “Moonie” himself, and he draws on his forty years of personal and professional experience studying hypnosis and destructive cults, working as a deprogrammer, and a strategic communications interventionist. He emphasizes why it’s crucial that we recognize ways to identify and protect ourselves and our loved ones.

The Cult of Trump is an accessible and in-depth analysis of the president, showing that under the right circumstances, even sane, rational, well-adjusted people can be persuaded to believe the most outrageous ideas. Hassan’s book is essential reading for anyone wanting to understand the Trump phenomenon and looking for a way forward.