Those of you who are urging others not to criticize the Prez tonight....

[senseandsensibility]

Don't you think you're underestimating him? He can take it, really. If anyone can, he can. He has that kind of persona. He doesn't take things personally. He learns and grows from them.

Yes, the response to the last debate was rough, but even his most ardent supporters have admitted that it wasn't his best performance. Has he complained? No, not at all. The responses by his top advisors have shown that they (including Obama himself) accept the criticism and think it's largely valid.

What if there had been no criticism, or only muted criticism? He could be headed into tonight without the strong desire to change the tone this time.

There's plenty of time left before the election, and tonight could be the beginning of our side's victory. Hushing up problems and the truth won't make that happen.

Just my two cents.

On the other hand, pointless bashing is damaging. I won't be indulging in that no matter what happens.

[Gman]

1. No! That's not the point

it's that all of us don't want to hear that shit right now.

[MrDiaz]

2. lol

well do not read the negatives...If he does a bad job, it would be a dis-service to the Democratic Party if you did not criticize him for it. Understanding truth is way better than being pampered with lies.

[regnaD kciN]

6. Just remember that what you post can "drive the narrative"...

Just as I'm convinced that, without the massive freak-out on MSNBC, Obama's immediate post-debate slide wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad, so I think that what people post here, at dKos, etc. can have implications we don't even begin to realize. "The left 'netroots' is in panic mode" is a pretty powerful meme, and can get fed up the media chain and become part of the post-debate spin that can so influence even those who haven't watched the debate itself. And, even if what you write doesn't reach that high, it can serve to heighten or lessen enthusiasm among those who read it, possibly turning RVs into LVs or vice-versa.

I think a good test, before writing anything tonight, would be to ask yourself "would what I write help our side to win, or possibly hurt it? I'm not saying legitimate criticism is out-of-line, but I'm suggesting that, if you have such criticism, you wait a few hours to calm down and reconsider if your reaction is entirely justified, or might be a little over-the-top, rather than rushing on here in mid-angst to deliver an emotion-driven "the sky is falling" post that will remain part of the public discussion, even if you no longer feel that intense in the cold light of day.

[treestar]

11. Yes, that's entirely possible

And when Lyan Ryan lost, the right net roots backed him up. The right has the audacity to claim Lyan won when he didn't. But we - noooooooo - we have to be honest. The people in the middle whose votes might be affected by the debate are not going to appreciate the honesty in such a way as to help Obama win.

[MrDiaz]

14. I understand

Where you are coming from, and I ALWAYS wait until the morning after to "vent" about what happened the previous day so I can get all the facts straight, and collect my thoughts. But at the same time if President Obama does not do well, then it has to be stated, and when I do get here and everyone is just overlooking the bad things that happened it makes me sick, it makes me feel that we also are "bots" blindly following a candidate because he choose a letter in front of his name. The democratic party's values deserve to be held to a high standard and if we refuse to hold that standard high... Our party will continue to lean right like it has been. My vote is always for the dem., but that does not mean they can not be criticized! When someone feels like the candidate they spend their money on deserves criticism, they should be able to criticize.

[treestar]

16. The point is the effect on other voters

We are not just bots but people deciding what to do to affect other voters.

So the indulgence in criticizing because you spent your money on him makes it more likely the money went down the drain.

[MrDiaz]

19. Listen

All I am saying is that if I feel like something needs to be said and or criticized, then I am not going to hold my tounge. I would want to know everything I could about the person getting my vote. You are suggesting that only the things people want to hear should be heard, that is wrong... That is how the repukes do it, and I refuse to do so.

[flamingdem]

15. The right wing uses email and calls to drive their points home

No media outlet wants to be deluged and they will respond .. at least sometimes

Here are some contact numbers:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021551573

[fwiff]

3. That's right! And the other point is

that our criticisms get picked up by the other side, and they use them against us.

We need to go after the lying liar(s), not eat our own.

[chowder66]

4. one cent

My take was that some of the criticism was over the top. That can effect other peoples views. Yes, Obama can take it but I can't be so sure others that are "undecided" "on the fence" "holding their nose" etc... can.

I think people are more capable of giving good and strong criticism without having to beat it to death.
I could only hope that when doing that to our candidate that we also examine the other candidate as closely.

[Skidmore]

5. Perhaps some are just overly anxious to

kneecap him. I hope you get my point.

[riverwalker]

7. your audience is not the President

you think he stays up late and reads posts on DU? No. The media reads DU and the media spins what we say because they are lazy.

[NYC Liberal]

8. It's not about Obama's feelings.

It's about the narrative that was spun after the debate. Democrats played right into the Republican and media "winner-loser" framing instead of rejecting it and forcing people to talk about the fact that Romney lied and Obama told the truth.

[flamingdem]

9. +1 well said here, here - It's all about the narrative and we are not falling for that again

[randome]

12. Obama said he lost. We need to call it as we see it. Always.

[NYC Liberal]

17. No. We should be trying to change the narrative.

Who the heck cares about "winning" and "losing"? The debates shouldn't be about winning or losing; they should be about the candidates informing voters about their plans and stances on the important issues of the campaign.

So...Romney lied the entire time, but that doesn't matter because he "won" (solely from style points)? That's absurd -- and that's the point we should be making.

[justiceischeap]

10. Nate Silver on UP w/ Chris Hayes this past weekend said that negative narrative can drive the polls

I think that is more the point folks are trying to make. So many Dems piled on President Obama after the first debate that it actually effected poll numbers and people's minds. I watched the debate and thought he could have done better but didn't do horribly and then I jumped on DU and according to lots of posts, he was the biggest loser of all losers of all time. That kind of narrative can plant seeds of doubt...

[grasswire]

13. it isn't about Obama's sensibilities.

It's about political strategy.

[BarackTheVote]

18. Not about whether or not Obama can take it

it's about giving aid and comfort to the enemy by freaking the f*ck out.