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Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:38 AM

The Democratic Senators Hiding Behind Joe Manchin

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democratic-senators-hiding-behind-joe-manchin

As I've said before on this board, Manchin serves as a tank to take incoming fire for other Democrats who agree with him. Being the bipartisan guy who is willing to stand up to his party help him in WV and it protects others from having to constantly deal with progressive ire.

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Reply The Democratic Senators Hiding Behind Joe Manchin (Original post)
BGBD Jun 2021 OP
lagomorph777 Jun 2021 #1
marble falls Jun 2021 #2
bluewater Jun 2021 #3
marble falls Jun 2021 #4
bluewater Jun 2021 #7
marble falls Jun 2021 #9
Politicub Jun 2021 #6
marble falls Jun 2021 #11
Politicub Jun 2021 #12
marble falls Jun 2021 #14
bluewater Jun 2021 #13
marble falls Jun 2021 #15
BGBD Jun 2021 #23
marble falls Jun 2021 #25
Politicub Jun 2021 #16
bluewater Jun 2021 #17
FBaggins Jun 2021 #10
marble falls Jun 2021 #26
lagomorph777 Jun 2021 #5
marble falls Jun 2021 #8
marble falls Jun 2021 #22
brush Jun 2021 #19
bdamomma Jun 2021 #24
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #18
brush Jun 2021 #21
FBaggins Jun 2021 #27
brush Jun 2021 #29
FBaggins Jun 2021 #30
brush Jun 2021 #31
FBaggins Jun 2021 #32
brush Jun 2021 #33
FBaggins Jun 2021 #34
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #36
brush Jun 2021 #37
FBaggins Jun 2021 #28
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #35
FBaggins Jun 2021 #38
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #39
HiramWisdom Jun 2021 #20

Response to BGBD (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 09:39 AM

1. That means it's all the more important to whip him into line.

Mass protests, infrastructure bribes, Kompromat. I don't care, whatever it takes, we must do it.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:00 AM

2. " Mass protests, infrastructure bribes, Kompromat. I don't care, whatever it takes, we must do it."

Situational ethics is usually a GOP kind of thing. We need to be careful before we also embrace it. The big question is: does he or does he not represent his constituency?

I mean, I'd vote against him in the primary, but so what - I live in Texas and I find Cruz and Cornyn much, much bigger turds in the punch bowl right now.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:18 AM

3. Is Manchin the best Democrat that can be elected in West Virginia?

I mean, the man won in 2020 when so many other Democratic senatorial candidates lost.

He's from the reddest state in the union that Trump won by 39% in 2020, that's just about a 70/30 split.

Where would we be right now if Manchin lost? In the minority in the Senate.

And yeah, the other 49 senators matter too, but Manchin is the senator getting the most criticism from our party right now.
Face it, if Manchin decided to switch parties, he would be a shoo-in to stay senator for life in West Virginia.

About the only productive thing I think we can do about Manchin is essentially bribe him with enough "pork" to mollify his West Virginia voters if he pushes President Biden's agenda.

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Response to bluewater (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:23 AM

4. You arguing with the wrong guy. If Manchin falls, the basket will elect a deplorible. Manchin is ...

... the best we're going to do. WVA votes against its own interests. Shocking to see the poor vote so consistently with the ones who made them poor and guarantee they'll stay poor.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:29 AM

7. Actually I am amplifying your point ;)

I totally agree with your point.

I should have said that up front.

Cheers.

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Response to bluewater (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:31 AM

9. Thanks! I'm not used to being agreed with!

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Response to bluewater (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:26 AM

6. Manchin inserted the lightening rod firmly in his ass when he did his media

campaign about not supporting HR 1.

It started with the op-Ed in a WV newspaper, and continued with a media tour of Sunday talk shows. This was not by accident.

It’s hard to defend him when he went out of his way — and directed his staff — to aggressively oppose voting rights and defend the fabricated history of the filibuster.

This hits some groups — minorities, the LGBTQ community, etc. — harder than those in the demographic majority. It does not help to Manchin-splain to us about how grateful we should be about him being in the party. We get it. But screw the pleas not to criticize his toxic ideas.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:34 AM

11. That's true. Sadly it won't hurt him, he's not running for support of any sort of minority ...

... except self-identifying Democrats in WVW.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:40 AM

12. He's self-serving. I hope his influence in the party gets diluted. Glad

we have a majority, but loathe that grabs the spotlight with praise for putting progressives in their place.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:42 AM

14. He's self serving. And it isn't as if the GOP care more about minority citizens. Double Whammy.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:40 AM

13. Great points, but what do we do with Manchin these next two years?

Absolutely, criticize Manchin on his positions, many of them deserve condemnation.

But then what?

Rightly raking him over the coals only makes him more popular in West Virginia. But how will such condemnations, suggested mass protests and the like get him to change his behavior now? I don't think that approach will.

Again, please don't think I am defending his policies, but too many people, not you, seem oblivious to the current political reality -- Manchin might be the only type of Democrat that can win in West Virginia now. Sure it would be nice to write off West Virginia and say to hell with Manchin but until we get a secure majority in the Senate, we can't afford to do that.



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Response to bluewater (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:45 AM

15. Find a unicorn to primary him? Maybe the answer is let him fall so we can stop trying to find ...

... a way to bring him into line, and then do a hard core battle to the death against his GOP replacement's re-election?

There are no solutions. It's in the hands of the Democrats who vote for him.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:42 PM

23. You can ask

Paula Jean Swerengin about that. She has tried to both primary Manchin and run a general senate election against a republican.....she lost by 40 in each. That's what you're going to get.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #23)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:48 PM

25. Like I said, no good end game. It's in the hands of the voters and they seem satisfied if not happy

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Response to bluewater (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:47 AM

16. I can't do a damn thing. That's frustrating. So I vent on DU.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:50 AM

17. Thanks for the discussion

Best regards.




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Response to bluewater (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:34 AM

10. He is necessarily the "best"... since he is the ONLY nt

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:52 PM

26. Frustrating turn of events. And no clear way out. Why I would probably vote against him in ...

... primary if there were a candidate to beat him, I sure as hell would vote for him in the election.

I sure as hell prefer him to Cruz and Cornyn, my Senators.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:24 AM

5. He does not. Maybe they are socially conservative, but WV dems have the same needs as anybody else.

And surely they are not demanding that he take away their right to vote!

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:29 AM

8. They all seem to be pretty quiet about it right now. It's a sort of reverse NIMBY. They ...

... don't feel like their voting rights are challenged, they think it's only PoC, BLM, antifa, commies that need to worry.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:26 PM

22. We all have the same needs. Alway have. Always will. Obviously Manchin is meeting the needs ...

... the Democrats who keep electing him back into Congress and don't primary him.

So we've bumped the Republicans down a notch. What are we going to next, purity test of all Democrats?

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:19 PM

19. Persuading with infrastructure projects/jobs for his state is not...

bribing. It's how politics is done. Come on, we all know that.

Manchin so far seem impervious to that or anything else his own party has tried to get him to help pass HR 1. There must be a reason he can't be moved as the that bill certainly has provisions in it to help his poor state.

Maybe the reason he's taken on McTurtle's obstructionist role is because he's in the Koch organization's pocket?

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:46 PM

24. why was

Sinema kissing up to Cornyn.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:02 AM

18. Name the senators who are hiding behind J.C. Joe

Not any of the following:
Coons
Casey
DiFi
Gillibrand
Tester

Possibly:
Shaheen
Kelly
One of the Delaware Sens.

I firmly believe if Schumer forces a floor vote on changing the filibuster rules in order to pass S1, all of the above will vote to kill or modify the filibuster.

That would leave Koch’s Sucker, along with Kyrsty Curtsy, all on their own.

Note to jurors:
If this were 1960, would you vote to hide posts disparaging Democrats Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, well known segregationist supporters of Jim Crow?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:26 PM

21. Is not S 1 a budget bill that can be passed by reconciliation...

without having to deal with a filibuster challenge? The recalcitrant senators can pass it the same way Biden's rescue bill was passed, a simple majority, 50-50 with the Veep' vote breaking the tie in our favor. Remember the parliamentarian of the Senate has rule it can be done.

The hold up has always been Manchin, Sinema and the rest of the closet obstructionist Dems who I believe will come around if Manchin does as it's not a matter of changing the filibuster rule.

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Response to brush (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:22 PM

27. No. S1 can't use reconciliation

There's almost no budget impact at all.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #27)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:35 PM

29. I'm not so sure about that. Isn't S 1 the Senate version of HR1? See below. It's 2.3 T about budget.

Using a revised budget resolution to take an extra crack at reconciliation to advance Democratic priorities through the Senate appears unlikely during this Congress, given a new opinion from the Senate parliamentarian.

The new guidance, issued to Senate staff on Friday, suggests that Democrats will get just one more try this year to pass a filibuster-proof legislative package to enact additional priorities ranging from infrastructure to immigration policy proposed by President Joe Biden and party leaders on Capitol Hill. If they want to use reconciliation yet again, they'd need to adopt a fiscal 2023 budget resolution next year, but would likely get only one shot then as well.


https://www.rollcall.com/2021/06/02/democrats-reconciliation-strategy-dealt-blow-senate-parliamentarian/

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Response to brush (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:45 PM

30. That's not related to S.1. at all

There was a working theory saying that reconciliation might not be limited to usage once per budget year (it's really three times, but effectively once). It wasn't an opinion that changed what reconciliation could cover. This article covers a more recent opinion by the parliamentarian that effectively returned to the once-per-year standard. But that gives us "one more crack" at another reconciliation in 2021... because budget years overlap calendar years.

Infrastructure would clearly qualify. Immigration would be somewhat more difficult (certainly not comprehensively), but S.1. is well outside of what can be done with reconciliation.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #30)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:27 PM

31. You're right. S 1 and HR 1 are not the same.

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Response to brush (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:30 PM

32. They're pretty close to the same...

… but neither would be able to use reconciliation to avoid a filibuster in the Senate.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:32 PM

33. Isn't HR 1 the infrastructure bill?

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Response to brush (Reply #33)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:37 PM

34. That explains the confusion

Both HR1 and S1 are the “For the People” voting rights bills.

The infrastructure bill can use reconciliation (with perhaps some tweaks)… but that’s a different bill.

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Response to brush (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:43 PM

36. No S1 is the senate version of the For the People Voting rights act, not subject to reconciliation

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #36)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:48 PM

37. Yes, another poster explained it to me.

I was thinking it was the infrastructure bill.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:32 PM

28. If you could name them... they wouldn't be hiding, would they?

The pressure put on Manchin by the left doesn't scare him much (because there's almost nothing that they can do to him), but most other Democrats in the Senate would be risking their careers at this point if they appeared to agree with him on this issue.

As long as Manchin and Sinema are providing cover, they can make noise about how awful the abuse of the rule is on the right and how they would support "reform"... but never anything that would draw unwanted attention.

My guess is that Feinstein is one such... and just look at the number of posts here about DUers being done with her and it's time for her to retire and let the governor replace her.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:41 PM

35. DiFi has state she will vote to kill the filibuster to f needed to pass HR1. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #35)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:53 PM

38. Nope

She did say that she was open to changes that would keep it from being blocked, but had so far rejected (“not at this time”) actually killing the filibuster.

Her most recent comment:

Asked Feinstein if a 1/6 filibuster would motivate her to abolish the rule:

"I don't see us abolishing the 60-vote threshold. I don't."

Would she vote to nix?

"This is the first time I've heard it. No one has proposed it. No one has talked to me about it. So it's a non-issue."


Also “The Senate is an institution, and this is part of that institution,” Feinstein said of the filibuster. Asked if there was anything Senate Republicans could do to get Feinstein to change the rule to 51 votes, she told me: “I haven’t gone that far in my thinking, because I just know that votes aren’t there to do it.”

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #38)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 07:49 PM

39. She did make a qualified statement a few months ago about ending the filibuster

If she truly doesn’t remember, then it is indeed time for her to retire.

Regardless, I predict Schumer will force the issue before the August recess, and DiFi will have to go on the record either supporting democracy and voting rights, or prioritizing the filibuster and enabling Jim Crow 2.0

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:26 PM

20. I'm afraid you are correct. n/t

 

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