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Sat Jun 12, 2021, 08:49 AM

Why are the Jan 6th terrorists being allowed to bail out after being arrested?

Are there any criminal defense attorneys here who can answer this?
They are clearly a danger to society. These are not innocent bystanders who were " caught up in the moment". They're criminals who intentionally attacked the United States of America.

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Reply Why are the Jan 6th terrorists being allowed to bail out after being arrested? (Original post)
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 OP
malaise Jun 2021 #1
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #2
Bev54 Jun 2021 #33
brooklynite Jun 2021 #49
malaise Jun 2021 #50
The Magistrate Jun 2021 #3
malaise Jun 2021 #4
dawg day Jun 2021 #6
The Magistrate Jun 2021 #9
malaise Jun 2021 #11
underpants Jun 2021 #7
TigressDem Jun 2021 #8
bamagal62 Jun 2021 #14
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #10
The Magistrate Jun 2021 #13
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #15
former9thward Jun 2021 #34
Elessar Zappa Jun 2021 #5
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #12
Elessar Zappa Jun 2021 #29
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #16
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #17
hardluck Jun 2021 #18
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #20
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #21
Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #25
StarfishSaver Jun 2021 #30
MarineCombatEngineer Jun 2021 #31
Treefrog Jun 2021 #42
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #45
obamanut2012 Jun 2021 #43
MarineCombatEngineer Jun 2021 #22
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #23
MarineCombatEngineer Jun 2021 #24
former9thward Jun 2021 #35
Tomconroy Jun 2021 #19
MineralMan Jun 2021 #26
uponit7771 Jun 2021 #27
3Hotdogs Jun 2021 #28
StarfishSaver Jun 2021 #32
3Hotdogs Jun 2021 #36
Baked Potato Jun 2021 #37
Mr.Bill Jun 2021 #47
Owl Jun 2021 #38
MichMan Jun 2021 #39
Owl Jun 2021 #41
sarisataka Jun 2021 #40
obamanut2012 Jun 2021 #44
Progressive Jones Jun 2021 #46
ck4829 Jun 2021 #48

Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 08:53 AM

1. Let me see -I'll take because there are also judges who are white supremacists

for $2,000

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 08:55 AM

2. There's that factor... nt

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:57 AM

33. I haven't kept up on all the arrests but certainly at the beginning

s lot of those being bailed out, were by local judges and the DOJ then appealed to district courts which overturned the decisions.

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Response to malaise (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 04:12 PM

49. You can prove that of course?

All the bail approvals are a matter of public record, as are the Judges who approved them.

Additionally, there's the public record of the prosecutors (today reporting to AG Garland) who either approved or objected.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #49)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 04:16 PM

50. LOL

Can you prove Ukraine is now a NATO member?

Have a good afternoon

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 08:55 AM

3. Judges Apply Criteria For Bond, Sir


Many of these defendants look pretty good under them. Many have no criminal record, many have substantial ties to the community. The gravity of the charges can be given some weight, but a judge cannot treat a charge as a fact.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:03 AM

4. But Sir do they think White Supremacists who are anti-government

should be included among the criteria?

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:05 AM

6. Not to mention that many are continuing their actions

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Response to malaise (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:14 AM

9. That Certainly Does Not Appear In Print, Ma'am

I expect it does have some effect at the margins, where a decision might go either way, with some judges. Continuing activities have gotten bail revoked, or not extended in instances. Judges have also cited Trump's continuing agitation as grounds to hold people who have said they were just doing what Trump said to do, reasoning that they could well offend again in their obedience.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:16 AM

11. Thanks for your response

If they were Muslims now

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:06 AM

7. Cost of confinement and lack of flight risk

I’m guessing here. Aside from COVID and keeping numbers lower in custody I’d guess cost of keeping someone for trial has to factor in. Low flight risk - coming from across the country these people do have means but the idea of them fleeing and staying gone seems really low at least to me.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:07 AM

8. They aren't black for the most part. So obviously MUCH safer in their communities.




Because the congress critters themselves said, "Oh they look like people we know!" Even as they tear apart the building and smear feces on the walls while screaming KILL PENCE.


Versus scary black people or BLM folk who (supposedly) support looting and such even when peacefully, prayerfully protesting the murder of a fellow human being. WHO obviously need to be pepper sprayed and shot with rubber bullets instead of just ASKED to please vacate this space temporarily.



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Response to TigressDem (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:23 AM

14. This.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:14 AM

10. Understood, but we're not dealing with ordinary crime here.

Why is the length of one's rap sheet a consideration after they participated in a terrorist attack upon this nation?
They are being charged on evidence that can't be refuted. "You were there. We have ock solid evidence that you were there. You took part in a terror attack on the US."

I know that I'll never see the end to this that I desire. That would eithet be life in prison, or execution. Thats my anger at these shitbags talking. However, I don't think they should be freed before this is over.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:21 AM

13. I Am Not Defending Their Being Bailed Out, Sir

You asked why and I have given what I understand to be the answer.

Personally, I think all ought to be held, particularly if there are photographs or statements showing the defendant was on the Capitol premises.

On the day in question, the Capitol should been kettled, and everyone inside the cordon charged with mob action.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:23 AM

15. I wasn't going after your response. Just continuing my rant. nt

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:07 AM

34. They have not been charged with terrorism.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:04 AM

5. Probably because most are being charged

with misdemeanors and have no priors.

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Response to Elessar Zappa (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:17 AM

12. Yes. They are being coddled. nt

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:36 AM

29. Maybe, but it's

pretty standard to give a reasonable bail if they meet those conditions.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:28 AM

16. Some are and some aren't - why? Um, the Constitution? Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:35 AM

17. What does the Constitution say about treason/insurrection?

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:40 AM

18. Are those the charges?

Most I’ve seen have been misdemeanors which explains the bail.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:56 AM

20. Treason is narrowly defined in the Constitution, insurrection isn't defined,

And due process, which is defined in the Constitution, applies to them both.

BTW, no one has been charged with either treason or insurrection.

Were you suggesting that Constitutional due process be suspended for the accused January 6 insurrectionists, just to satisfy some sort of sense of revenge?

That’s what the insurrectionists themselves had planned- just grab Pence, Pelosi and anyone else, and string ‘em up…

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:05 AM

21. It's a major failure that there haven't been treason charges.

How does what the trash did on 1/6 not qualify as treason?
I've read how it's laid out in the Constitution.
I saw treason being committed.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:14 AM

25. Well, I guess you know better than anyone else.

Perhaps you could build a gallows outside the Federal courts with a sign that says “traitors enter here”

There’s a reason we have a Justice system that seeks to remove emotional passion from deciding the fate of the accused…

I, myself, will wait patiently as the accused make their way through the process, and celebrate each time one is sentenced for their crimes. I especially look forward to some of the little fish flipping and testifying against their more prominent conspirators…something unlikely to happen if they were quickly charged with treason and executed, as your OP seems to suggest.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:41 AM

30. Excellent response

 

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:43 AM

31. What StarfishSaver said. nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 04:53 PM

42. Well said.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 13, 2021, 12:19 AM

45. OK.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 06:45 PM

43. It literally wasn't treason

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:06 AM

22. Name one defendant that's been charged with treason/insurrection?

The majority of the charges have been misdemeanors, not treason/insurrection, ergo, these defendants are entitled to have bail set or released on own recognizant with special conditions.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:10 AM

23. Therein lies the problem. They are being given watered down charges.

These violent criminals are being coddled by the very government they attacked.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:13 AM

24. Well then, I would suggest that you contact the DoJ and air your complaints

and see if they'll upgrade the charges to treason/insurrection, meanwhile, I'll trust M. Garland's DoJ on their handling of these defendants.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:10 AM

35. Treason is defined in the Constitution.

One of the only crimes that is. None of them meet that definition.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 09:56 AM

19. In the federal system the presumption

Is that a defendant will not be held pending trial. There are two exceptions to the rule. A defendant will be held if the government can establish that he is a flight risk or that he is dangerous I. e. a threat to the community. There was a DC circuit decision over what the idea of 'dangerous' meant in the context of the 1/6 events. It's a little hazy, but apparently it means more than just one time presence at the scene of a violent assault on the Capitol (even if you are in possession of a taser).

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:14 AM

26. Federal courts have bail guidelines.

Most of those recommend bail for misdemeanor offenses. Same thing in state courtrooms. Virtually nobody charged with a misdemeanor offense is remanded into custody.

Felony offenses have different standards, and things like risk of flight, risk of danger to self or others, and other factors are in play.

Arguments could be made that more felony charges should be made, but charges are up to federal prosecutors, not judges, so the judges take them as they arrive and are charged, and act accordingly.

One thing that is not taken into consideration is outrage by people not directly and immediately affected by the charges that are filed.

Why not charge most of them with insurrection or even treason? Because those charges would not result in a conviction in most cases. Treason, for example, is the only crime mentioned in the Constitution. It is the most serious crime against the state there is. That charge is rarely made, for that reason. Insurrection is not a crime that is well-described, so it is difficult to prosecute.

That's why, to answer your question. Is that a good thing? I don't think so, but that is why. Judicial Guidelines.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:15 AM

27. If these guys were brown skinned and or Muslim the expectations wouldn't be able to bail out

... of jail.

Come on people

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:23 AM

28. Bail has been a right since 1257, English law.

It is also promulgated in our Constitution.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:44 AM

32. Perhaps, but more likely

 

is that they would be granted bail, but be unable to pay it.

The problem in our system is not that too many white people are granted it and too many Black and Brown aren't, but that bail terms tend to be too onerous for many Black and Brown people to meet.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:16 AM

36. Agree, but that wasn't the focus of the original post.

Bail setting has a checklist of facts and who gets let out “on their own recognizance” is a function of what boxes are checked.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:18 AM

37. Also, I notice a lot of ankle monitors and surrendering of firearms.

They will at least be put through an embarrassing, maybe job killing ordeal. I want to see the most severe punishment available.

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Response to Baked Potato (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 13, 2021, 01:05 AM

47. I was going to post about that when I saw this thread.

A lot of these people are being released on house arrest with electronic monitoring. We live in an age when this is more common and the technology makes it more secure and frankly cheaper than it used to be.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:19 AM

38. When do they start going to prison?

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Response to Owl (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:28 AM

39. Only after conviction and sentencing ?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 03:47 PM

41. Yes. I just haven't heard of any projected trial dates.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 11:38 AM

40. Perhaps the 8th Amendment may be helpful nt

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Sat Jun 12, 2021, 06:46 PM

44. Because of something called the US Constitution

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #44)

Sun Jun 13, 2021, 12:25 AM

46. I know what the Constitution says on this. Bail is typically granted at a Judges' discretion.

I guess that's who my beef is with.

I don't think that shit should be walking free.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 04:10 PM

48. Good question

Last edited Tue Jun 29, 2021, 11:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Critical Race Theory

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