As Always, This Week's Blowup Over Ilhan Omar Was Based On Baldfaced Lies

[wellst0nev0ter]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).

From The Intercept:

It all began with an hourslong hearing Monday by the House Foreign Affairs Committee with the snoozy title “State Department Foreign Policy Strategy and Fiscal 2022 Budget Request.” Secretary of State Antony Blinken took queries from committee members, including Omar.

Omar had a serious, rational question for Blinken about the significance of America’s policy toward the International Criminal Court at the Hague. “You opposed the court’s investigation in both Palestine and in Afghanistan,” she noted. “In both of these cases, if domestic courts can’t or won’t pursue justice, and we oppose the ICC, where do we think victims are supposed to go for justice, and what justice mechanisms do you support for them?”

Blinken had an unserious, irrational answer. “Whether it’s the United States or Israel,” he said, “we both have the mechanisms to make sure that there is accountability in any situations where there are concerns about the use of force and human rights.” This is insultingly false on its face. To choose one of hundreds of examples, there has been no American prosecution of those responsible for conducting torture during the Bush administration.

(snip)

It was this concept of equal justice under international law that drove Republicans and many Democrats into a rage when Omar tweeted this after the hearing. Again, the ICC planned investigations of the U.S. military and the Taliban and the Afghan government, as well as the IDF and Palestinian forces. That’s what Omar was referring to here:



The subsequent freak-out was something to behold, and all of it evaded the actual concerns of the people freaking out — i.e., making sure the ICC never prosecutes Americans.

In other words, the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban all have something in common: they are not subject to the oversight of the ICC due to the whims of their governments or their occupiers. This kneejerk impulse to protect Israel at all costs needs to stop.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. I've been informed by certain members that not always supporting the government of Israel

is prima facie evidence of antisemitism.

[Dorian Gray]

27. I think comparing the USA to a terrorist nation

is where the problem is. Though she's previously tarred herself with anti-semitic tropes, so people are less willing to give her the benefit of the doubt anymore.

[Cha]

77. Well said, Dorian Gray.. TY!

[wellst0nev0ter]

101. Hamas in not a nation

[ck4829]

2. K&R

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Agree to disagree

Only Trumpers, White Supremacists, 3% ers and the Klan are like Hamas and the Taliban.

The US, its history/roots are nothing like the Taliban or Israel.

My opinion - just some little nobody in NJ? She's talking out of her ass. Like Manchin - just a different issue.

[stillcool]

18. you're right. The U.S. and it's history

put the Taliban and Israel to shame.

"Since World War Two the United States has attempted to overthrow more than fifty foreign governments, it has dropped bombs on the people of around thirty countries, has attempted to assassinate some sixty foreign leaders, helped to suppress dozens of populist or nationalist movements, has tortured many thousands, and seriously and illegally intervened in one way or another in virtually every country on the planet, in the process of which the U.S. has caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair."
William Blum, in a speech at the University of Vermont, 2007

U.S. Military and CIA Interventions since World War II
Iran (1953); Guatemala(1954); Thailand (1957); Laos (1958-60); the Congo (1960); Turkey (1960, 1971 & 1980); Ecuador (1961 & 1963); South Vietnam (1963); Brazil (1964); the Dominican Republic (1963); Argentina (1963); Honduras (1963 & 2009); Iraq (1963 & 2003); Bolivia (1964, 1971 & 1980); Indonesia (1965); Ghana (1966); Greece (1967); Panama (1968 & 1989); Cambodia (1970); Chile (1973); Bangladesh (1975); Pakistan (1977); Grenada (1983); Mauritania (1984); Guinea (1984); Burkina Faso (1987); Paraguay (1989); Haiti (1991 & 2004); Russia (1993); Uganda (1996);and Libya (2011). This list does not include a roughly equal number of failed coups, nor coups in Africa and elsewhere in which a U.S. role is suspected but unproven.
from William Blum's book "Killing Hope"


"Coming to grips with U.S./CIA activities in broad numbers and figuring out how many people have been killed in the jungles of Laos or the hills of Nicaragua is very difficult. But, adding them up as best we can, we come up with a figure of six million people killed-and this is a minimum figure. Included are: one million killed in the Korean War, two million killed in the Vietnam War, 800,000 killed in Indonesia, one million in Cambodia, 20,000 killed in Angola ... and 22,000 killed in Nicaragua. These people would not have died if U.S. tax dollars had not been spent by the CIA to inflame tensions, finance covert political and military activities and destabilize societies."
John Stockwell, CIA official in the 1960s and 1970s

https://thirdworldtraveler.com/

[JustAnotherGen]

88. I'm a black woman

Its not me. It has been men in the dominant culture.

Don't put that shit on me until I get reparations for Jim Crow.

Too worried about continued lynchings by white American terrorists.

ETA - Clarity - black woman who descends from.enslaved people and those people lived through the Jim Crow Era New Deal.

What country in the Middle East stood up for my grandparents?

[Hortensis]

4. wellst0nev0ter posting The Intercept and Rep. Omar on Biden's SecState.

Am I correct in assuming accusation that the Biden administration is furthering America's intractable record of "unspeakable atrocities"? And that our determination to continue our "unspeakable atrocities" has unfortunately triggered an avalanch of lies about Rep. Omar?

The situation over there is horrible, with no ready solutions, ESPECIALLY in an era of rise in planetwide authoritarianism and racial hostilities. And an era in which the future of most of the Middle East threatens to turn to ashes. Nothing America can do now, in this era of great troubles, can fix it, we can only try to hold it together, encourage sustainability where we can, and try to keep people alive while waiting for more promising times for big advances.

And the power of intractable troublemakers who can only bring on ashes should be neutered by knowledge.

[Budi]

5. The knee-jerk to condemn Israel, US, HAMAS, Taliban as one & the same

..got her inti this stew.
This isn't the 1st nor innocent time she's poked that stick. She is well aware of what her words intend.

I see she left Palestine off the list of nations that have murdered innocents.

There is a violent history there as well .
I would like to hear her address this as well, please:

Palestinians bring it upon themselves starting with the Yom Kippur war, the 1972 Munich olympics, the hijacking of several Mediterranean ships like Achille Lauro etc. Their latest was indiscriminate rocket attacks against civilians which violates UN warfare rules.
Chirps on owning that history~



Here's the difference when lumping 4 countries together as she did under the jihadi terrorist umbrella.. (And I ain't buying the "but..but.. what I REALLY meant was"..days later as she watches as the shit hits the predictable fan, yet again)

It was asked: " How do you reconcile our country's dark past with its present claim to moral higher ground than rogue states and terrorist groups?"

There's an easy 3 part test she may want to consider for her next headline grabber.

*TEST 1:
Can you, without pre-clearing it with a regime, go their turf, criticize them and call them every name in the book, and walk out safe and sound without regime-imposed sanctions for your speech? In the US, you can. In Russia/Hamas territory/NK, you can't.

*TEST 2:
Is there an independent judiciary that protects the rights of its own people AND punishes people for committing atrocities, especially in a conflict or war situation, domestically or internationally?

*TEST 3:
What mechanisms exist to address the dark history of a country/regime? Are people/press/academicians free to speak + publish work on it? The ability to freely access information and have academic, not just political, debates over a country's/regime's past is important.


The US and Israel pass all these tests to a good degree. Rogue states and terrorist groups don't.

I will always stand by my country against terrorist nations.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

6. Well said.

[wellst0nev0ter]

15. You don't know how to read

This is you:

I see she left Palestine off the list of nations that have murdered innocents.

This is Omar

We have seen unthinkable atrocities committed by the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban.

Please get your facts right.

Also:

Can you, without pre-clearing it with a regime, go their turf, criticize them and call them every name in the book, and walk out safe and sound without regime-imposed sanctions for your speech?

Israel bars Muslim Reps. Omar and Tlaib from visiting the country

Pathetic.

[Budi]

26. Nice of you to wish me a lovely evening & you agree with me!

Gee, if only I could read... 😁



Well thanks! You have a great day as well then.

[sheshe2]

33. Gee, if only I could read... 😁

[wellst0nev0ter]

40. You said she left out Palestine

When she demonstrably did not.

I will not exchange views with those who argue in bad faith.

[Cha]

137. You know what is TRUE... When

anyone resorts to insults.. they've already lost.

[George II]

89. Palestine is Palestine, Hamas is Hamas.

Last edited Sun Jun 13, 2021, 09:10 AM - Edit history (1)

I her list that you included in your post, she DID leave Palestine off her list.

We have seen unthinkable atrocities committed by the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban.

Palestine is not included.

But I would never attack you by saying:

"You don't know how to read"

Or order you to

"get your facts right"

as you have done.

That's just not the way to debate an issue. I've found that when one resorts to attacks or insults, it generally means one is not confident in his/her own position.

[JustAnotherGen]

90. Thank you

I was confused about the Palestine comments. Clears things up.

And you are correct . . . attacks lead nowhere.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

30. Agree

[George II]

7. No it wasn't. It was based on her very own words, uttered by her and then....

...memorialized in her tweet which is still standing:

Link to tweet

We must have the same level of accountability and justice for all victims of crimes against humanity.

We have seen unthinkable atrocities committed by the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban.

This wasn't the first time she's made such controversial statements. She was forced to apologize for other anti-Semitic statements in the past, specifically:

Rep. Ilhan Omar Apologizes 'Unequivocally' For Remarks Condemned As Anti-Semitic

"Anti-Semitism is real," Omar tweeted Monday afternoon, "and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes."

She added, "We have to always be willing to step back and think through criticism, just as I expect people to hear me when others attack me for my identity. This is why I unequivocally apologize."

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/11/693480995/house-democrats-urge-party-leaders-to-condemn-anti-semitism

[Budi]

8. Ain't it great that the US allows her to openly condemn her own US govt?

What a country, right?

I mean, surely HAMAS & the Taliban would give as much freedom & safety to do the same, right?
Guess that's what makes us the same as them. RIGHT?
Am I Right?

Can someone ask her, for me?

🤪

[Voltaire2]

10. She made no claim of equivalence in all aspects.

But you know that.

[Budi]

13. Just aligned the US & Israel with HAMAS & Taliban in one sentence.

And she knew that, too.

(Walleed loves this stuff.)

Wait a minute, I thought Cori Bush deflected to the race card... So which is it?

Is the backlash about Race or about the US being aligned with 'Jihadi terrorist orgs'?

There's a pattern emerging:
1. Lob the headline grabbing shock-bomb
2. Deflect
3. Wait 2 days & say what you REALLY Meant instead of what everyone heard.

She knows that, as well.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. Yeah, the U.S. has a whole Wiki page of war crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

Unfortunately, not all the victims were able to get justice.

Remember how Trump pardoned the war criminals?

And I'll bet Israel is really, really sorry it killed 63 children last month.

[George II]

14. Those 63 children were killed because Hamas cowardly hid in civilian homes, from where they....

....fired thousands of rockets into Israel. That is a blatant violation of international war.

[wellst0nev0ter]

16. Yep Blame Hamas for the children's deaths

case closed! Who needs a court?

Thanks for making Omar's case for her.

[Budi]

17. Lol. That's some mixmaster of words there. Whew!

Waleed would be proud of such a skillset.

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. Sorry, who?

[George II]

24. Sorry, by hiding among civilians and firing thousands of rockets indiscriminately.....

....from civilian neighborhood, in blatant violation of International Law, Hamas is responsible for those deaths.

The only case that has been "made" is that Hamas is a terrorist organization with no regard for International Law or civilian life.

I'm certainly glad that at least on this point we agree.

Have a great evening!

[wellst0nev0ter]

28. Yes, Yes, it's the kids' fault they were governed by Hamas

Case closed. They don't deserve justice, let's move on

[George II]

32. Nobody said it's the kids' fault, I said it was HAMAS' FAULT. My exact words:

Hamas is responsible for those deaths.

Didn't you just make this accusation about someone in the subject line here?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15521901

So, please calmly reread my post and if you agree that it's Hamas' fault (as you seem to be doing here), let me know. Otherwise, meh?

Again, the case that's closed is that Hamas is an international terrorist organization that has no regard for civilian life, including the lives of their own civilians. They cowardly hide behind their own civilians and wage warfare. They've even used children as suicide bombers. Yes, the case that they're an immoral international terrorist organization is indeed closed.

[wellst0nev0ter]

38. The kids deserve to die because HAMAS

Whatever song and dance you come up with, that's what your argument boils down to.

63 kids died by Israeli bombs and bullets, without any recourse to justice, because they just happened to be governed by Hamas.

[George II]

42. I don't know why are you trying to twist this around, but it's not working. Hamas cowardly hid....

....among civilians including children and then launched attacks on Israeli civilians with thousands of rockets. Israel defended itself by firing back at the locations from where the rockets were fired. Because of Hamas' cowardice and abject disdain of international law, along with members of Hamas their human shields were killed, too. That is solely on the head of Hamas, no one else. You can try to turn it around, but it's not working.

NOBODY said the children (not "kids" ) deserved to die except the cowards that hid behind them - Hamas. Were it not for Hamas violating international law and being cowards, those children would not have been killed. They hid among the children and their families, knowing that their presence there AND their unlawful attacks on Israeli civilians, many of the civilians among whom they were hiding - men, women, and children - would be killed once they illegally attacked Israel.

My "argument" is not what you conclude, fake "song and dance" notwithstanding. It's not an argument, it's a statement of plain fact.

It's really encouraging, though, that you finally admit that those poor children were killed because of the illegal and immoral behavior of those who governed them - Hamas.

What's really disappointing is that you continue to stick up for an international terrorist organization comprised of cowards. Do you an explanation as to why?

[wellst0nev0ter]

43. Then Israel sucks at its job because Hamas still has rockets

Meanwhile, at least 63 kids (yes K.I.D.S.) are killed because Israel doesn't even bother to be discriminate in its bombing anymore.

Remember the AP building? The U.S. has not seen any intelligence justifying that bombing.

So somebody is lying and we need a neutral arbiter, like the ICC, to sort this out.

In any case, the death of the kids was tragic, but oh well, they chose to live near Hamas, so what can you do?

[George II]

45. Israel is pretty good at their "job" - since their first day of existence about 75 years ago....

....they've been attacked relentlessly from all directions, starting with the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the Palestinian Fedayeen insurgency of the 50s/60s, the Six-Day War, the Yom Kippur War, etc., and countless acts of terrorism within Israel and around the world - Achille Lauro attack, the Munich Olympics, airliner hijackings to Uganda, and others. And they've survived each and every one of them.

Their job is their very existence, and they do it very well.

Yes, the death of those children was tragic, only because of the cowardice of Hamas. They didn't "choose to live near Hamas", Hamas chose to ignore international law and cowardly chose to live among civilian men, women, and children. That you're trying to "blame" the children and Israel for the abject cowardice of Hamas is truly disappointing and sad.

As for the "AP building", your report is from about a month ago, just days after it was destroyed. You may want to read up on recent reports and developments and evidence that Hamas was indeed in that building, conducting a jamming operation aimed at Iron Dome.

But unlike Hamas' gutless, inhuman attacks on civilians, Israel gave everyone ample warning ahead of time - no one was killed in the building.

[wellst0nev0ter]

47. 75 what?

Oh you mean how Israel itself was founded by terrorist groups? Even Netanyahu continues to celebrate the bombing of the King David Hotel.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/israel-original-terrorist-state

[George II]

49. I hit by mistake as I was typing - I completed the post.

[George II]

59. I guess my FULL post was disappointing to you inasmuch as it didn't confirm your off-base premise.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

95. ...

In any case, the death of the kids was tragic, but oh well, they chose to live near Hamas, so what can you do?

That's a totally misleading statement bordering on an outright lie, those kids did not choose to live near Hamas, Hamas choose to set up their rockets among those kids and use them as shields without any regard to those kid's lives, and to top it off, now Hamas can use the tragic deaths of these children, whom they are responsible for their deaths, as a propaganda tool to hammer Israel.

It really is quite that brutally simple.

[sheshe2]

35. Excuse me?

[div class="excerpt"wellst0nev0ter

28. Yes, Yes, it's the kids' fault they were governed by Hamas

Case closed. They don't deserve justice, let's move on

Would you please point out the exact words George posted where he said it is the kids fault ????

Sorry your post makes no sense.

[sheshe2]

44. Crickets

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. "Those 63 children were killed because Hamas cowardly hid in civilian homes"

If only those kids didn't live in civilian homes, they would still be alive.

Seems like blatant victim blaming to me.

[sheshe2]

48. Who?

Hamas or the children.

Hamas never should have put those children at risk. Or maybe they are seen as collateral damage for their cause.

[wellst0nev0ter]

55. You and the other poster

Continue to say that the deaths of those 63 children are justified because of their proximity to Hamas militants. And now you yourself are suggesting those children are "collateral damage" a term that would be monstrous if applied to any other ethnicity.

[sheshe2]

62. They were in PROXIMITY!?

They sure were, Hamas entered their homes to fire into Israel.

wellst0nev0ter

55. You and the other poster

Continue to say that the deaths of those 63 children are justified because of their proximity to Hamas militants.

Perhaps you should hone your reading skills and try again. Neither me or the "other" poster are saying that the deaths were justified. If the enemy of my enemy enters my home to launch an attack against said enemy it will draw fire against the innocents in said homes. Children died and using them as human shields is against every law.

Not sure why you are going to such great depths to protect those that did not protect their own.

And now you yourself are suggesting those children are "collateral damage" a term that would be monstrous if applied to any other ethnicity.

Once again! You need to chill and actually read what is written. I said:

Star Member sheshe2 (72,092 posts)

48. Who?

Hamas or the children.

Hamas never should have put those children at risk. Or maybe they are seen as collateral damage for their cause.

Collateral damage? Yes. I believe that HAMAS THINKS OF THEM AS COLLATERAL DAMAGE why else would they have entered said homes to launch their attacks.

Read it again!

I am done here.

[Cha]

76. Mahalo, she.. for the

Much Needed Reality Check!

[sheshe2]

78. Thank you, Cha.

This place makes me so tired at times.

There are days when I just want to give up and walk away from all the foolishness.

*sigh*

[Cha]

79. I know.. We Should ALL BE FIGHTING

FASCISM.. Instead we have to deal with ******* *********** ***** TOO!.

[sheshe2]

81. I hear ya, loud and clear.

************* *********** *********

This!

[Cha]

83. 💙.. TO Our Patriotic Dems on the Front Lines Fighting Fascism..

[MarineCombatEngineer]

96. Thank you sheshe2 for telling it like it is.

I don't understand the mindset of that poster, it's almost like he/she doesn't want any blame to fall on Hamas for putting those children's lives in danger.

[wellst0nev0ter]

102. By your logic, the lives of those kids are always negotiable

Since they are always near Hamas agents at any point in time.

Seriously, this is the same dumb logic that we heard when justifying the atrocities during the Iraq War.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

131. Well, IMO, and many many others, you are completely wrong,

I'll just leave it at that and you have a great Sunday.

[wellst0nev0ter]

145. Those who wipe their hands of 63 children's deaths by citing Hamas

believe those children's lives are expendable.

[George II]

72. Their "proximity" was intentional. Hamas intentionally embeds themselves....

....in civilian neighborhoods just for situations like this. They launch attacks on Israel, and when Israel defends themselves Hamas calls for international condemnation because "Israel attacked civilians". These Palestinian organizations have been doing this for decades. Thankfully the principled international community hasn't fallen for it.

NO ONE SAID THE DEATHS OF 63 CHILDREN WAS JUSTIFIED, that's your rationalization. Why do you insist on making excuses for and supporting a murderous international terrorist organization.

In keeping with YOUR off-topic wanderings in this thread, does this mean you also support al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden? Just a hypothetical question. Answer?

[mcar]

130. You are incorrect (deliberately so, one must think)

Not one person on this OP said the deaths of the children is justified - not one.

This is a complicated issue but obfuscating does not help.

[George II]

51. The COMPLETE sentence:

Those 63 children were killed because Hamas cowardly hid in civilian homes, from where they....

....fired thousands of rockets into Israel.

I guess what I said didn't conform to what you would have liked me to say, so you had to misrepresent me and edit my post.

Why did you do that?

[wellst0nev0ter]

56. I quoted you accurately

And any reasonable person can see you meant armed Hamas militants.

We know you're cool with kids being killed as long as they're collateral damage, just like the kids who died in the MOVE bombing in Philadelphia.

[George II]

57. You quoted me partially. David Letterman used to do a bit like that about once a week....

....it was very entertaining. No, it was hysterical.

[wellst0nev0ter]

63. David Letterman?

Wasn't he accused of sexual misconduct?

[George II]

64. Are you SERIOUSLY accusing me of being:

"...cool with kids being killed as long as they're collateral damage, just like the kids who died in the MOVE bombing in Philadelphia."

That is fucking insulting and offensive!!!! I can't believe someone on DU would accuse another of that - you should be ashamed of yourself.

I would suggest you delete that post as soon as possible! Garbage like that does not belong on this site.

[wellst0nev0ter]

66. Then if you're not cool with kids being killed

Then you don't blanket justify the killings by citing Hamas, just like you don't justify the kids in Philadelphia being bombed by blaming MOVE.

[George II]

68. To put it in YOUR context, you're "cool with kids (children) being killed" because the terrorist....

...organization you're advocating for here, Hamas, uses them as human shields. But again, in your context, I guess you're okay with murderous terrorist organizations.

Were it not for Hamas' blatant disregard for the safety of THEIR OWN PEOPLE, including children, those children would be alive today. Those deaths, regardless of how bizarrely you want to spin it, fall entirely in the lap Hamas.

Now, what the fuck does MOVE and Philadelphia, something that occurred 42 years ago, have to do with this?

For your information, I was actually in Philadelphia that day when it happened. It was a horrible and tragic event, and no one, NO ONE, is happy with it. I can't believe that even you would accuse me of being okay with those people, children included, being killed back then.

I never thought someone here on DU would ever stoop to making such a deplorable accusation, but I guess there's a first for everything. If I was ever in a state of mind to make such a claim, I would be ashamed of myself and would immediately retract it and apologize.

But that's just me.

Anxiously awaiting your next personal attack.

[betsuni]

71. The "you don't care about murdered children" insult is so Obama administration (drones) era.

Resurrected!

[George II]

74. Exactly. It smacks of the bush II era when the question was, if you didn't 110% agree.........

....."Why do you hate America?"

[sheshe2]

80. What a horrible thing to say about a member here.

A long time member of a Democratic board.

We know you're cool with kids being killed as long as they're collateral damage, just like the kids who died in the MOVE bombing in Philadelphia.

To say anyone, let alone a member is "cool with kids being killed" what the hell are you doing? I think you owe George and me an apology. You accused both of us of condoning mass murder of children.

What is wrong with you? Just STOP!

[sarisataka]

54. I like to think I am fairly proficient

In the English language.

There is no way I can read that sentence that results in blaming the children for their own deaths.

[George II]

58. Bizarre, isn't it? Thanks!

[sheshe2]

67. Thank you.

[George II]

12. They conduct public stoning of women for adultery, execute women for the "crime" of being raped...

Throw men off the roofs of buildings for being gay, amputate hands and feet for theft.

Hamas embeds themselves in residential neighborhoods among civilians and fire thousands of rockets into Israel from those civilian neighborhoods (in blatant violation of international law and the Geneva conventions).

Hamas even used the civilian office building occupied by businesses and Associate Press to operate jamming equipment to thwart "Iron Dome".

And yet the US gets lumped in with those organizations.

[Budi]

22. K & R ..but They're all the SAAAAME!!!

Don't cha know!

Good post George ll.
Thank you for telling the Real Ugly Side of the Story They Omitted.

[wellst0nev0ter]

39. And Hamas killed 63 kids

The U.S. got lumped in with Hamas because it refuses to join the ICC. That is all.

Otherwise, keep saying it's all unfair to be grouped with terrorist regimes.

[George II]

52. Hamas was responsible for the death of those 63 children. It's sad that you have to use....

....that tragic event to make a political point. Very sad.

[sheshe2]

50. They sound a lot like republicans.

[JustAnotherGen]

86. This

[Voltaire2]

9. Expect to be attacked.

[Budi]

19. Expect to be attacked back for her original blanket statement attack

Fixed it for ya.

US is not Hamas nor the Taliban.
She wouldn't be seated where she is if we were.
She knows that, too. But..but..

[JustAnotherGen]

87. Excellent point

Hamas and the Taliban would kill a woman before allowing her to hold a political office.

[wellst0nev0ter]

106. I thought my original post was clear

That this statement relates to joining the ICC, but I see you are committed to driving non-existent controversies.

[Budi]

107. Hey nice to see you back! Hope you got some much deserved rest after the marathon pace of ....

...defending the indefensible.

Though I can't read your whole post to me, I've learned your name, so hears a hello & a wave & have a great day!!

I know I sure am..!!! 💙🌻

[wellst0nev0ter]

112. No, you obviously have not read my posts

Or else you would not engage in this exhaustive display of bad faith discourse.

Have a good day.

[sheshe2]

70. Perhaps you should read the whole thread now.

You can see who is being attacked.

[stillcool]

20. I am stunned. It's not only black history that is unacceptable..

https://thirdworldtraveler.com/

[Budi]

21. Problem is using Black History as a deflection, followed days later with...

"But..but..but...What I REALLY REALLY meant was"...

Same pattern as always. 🙄

[stillcool]

23. the attempt to erase black history is a deflection?

I can understand having an issue with what Omar said, if someone is concerned about not rocking the boat. But to call her a liar is bullshit. American History is easy to find. You don't have to go back too far.

https://thirdworldtraveler.com/

[Budi]

25. No one is erasing it. Using Race as cover to a damning statement against the country that..

..that gives her the opportunity to speak as she does, is the problem.

To claim we're now against her because of her race rather than her words, says more about how carlessly they consider the seriousness of fight for Racial inequality.
To use it as a cudgle to hide behind is damned disgusting.
NO ONE but her own (C. Bush) brought up Race after her statement aligning this nation with jihadi terrorist orgs.

To immediately throw out the Race Card in that circumstance, is really f'd up.

[stillcool]

31. no one is erasing history?

okay. I guess I'm just not on your wave-length.

[Budi]

34. See post 27, top of the page

No one made it about race until she needed a place to hide from her own words.

That is sick.

[MineralMan]

36. "From The Intercept?"

Oh, my...

[wellst0nev0ter]

41. They got rid of Glenn Greenwald

for what it's worth.

[George II]

61. He resigned. But it's still the Intercept, "for what it's worth."

[sheshe2]

82. For what it's worth.

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[MineralMan]

91. To me, it's not worth much.

That didn't seem to change their whiny tone about Democrats. I don't read it, and would never quote a story from there.

[wellst0nev0ter]

113. So blame the messenger instead of the message?

Guess that's what we're doing then.

[Autumn]

37. I found out a long time ago that any outrage posted about Progressives turns out

to have bullshit behind it and the truth is ignored. Usually pushed by the same people.

[George II]

60. I found out the very same thing, Autumn, if you catch my drift.....

[Autumn]

85. Yeah George I caught your drift.

[George II]

69. Of course, but remember we're "establishment Democrats".

[sheshe2]

73. Pfft!

[Autumn]

84. No. I was clear in what I said she.

[wellst0nev0ter]

103. Ilhan is a Democrat

Though that fact may be lost on you

[tonedevil]

116. She isn't a Democrat they approve of. /nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

118. She's also... nevermind

I'm sure it's just her rhetoric they have a problem with.

[mcar]

132. Oh do go on

What is she also?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

135. So now you're implying that those here speaking out against her is because

of her race? Her religion?
Quit being coy about it and just come out and say it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

141. Accusing people of racism without evidence would be wrong

Just like it's wrong for certain people to accuse Omar of antisemitism without a shred of evidence.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

150. You were implying because you knew you would get a hide if you came out and said it.

Anyway, I'm done with you.
Have a great day.

[betsuni]

154. The technique of attacking character instead of the issue.

Same as attacking Democrats' character while insisting it's all about policy.

[betsuni]

136. She's American. American elected officials' words and actions are being discussed.

What are you saying? That quotes of what she says aren't real?

[JustAnotherGen]

139. Rhetoric?

Which one? Ethos, Pathos, or Logos?

[BobTheSubgenius]

53. I'm assuming the final para is from you, wellst0nev0ter. (Great handle, btw)

Based on that, I'm going to address the final sentence. I find that impulse both perplexing and dangerous - especially the viewpoint of the radical Christian right. The geopolitical one is much more understandable, but only a little less dangerous. At least it's a thought-out policy, however much one might disagree with the calculus.

[wellst0nev0ter]

117. Thanks, had this handle before the plane accident

People on this forum are supporting an extremist, rightwing government unconditionally. I simply don't get it.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

133. ....

117. Thanks, had this handle before the plane accident
View profile
People on this forum are supporting an extremist, rightwing government unconditionally. I simply don't get it.

Prove it, otherwise this statement is an out and out lie.

[betsuni]

138. +1

[wellst0nev0ter]

148. Look up Likud and the parties it formed a coalition with

Here, I'll help

https://www.axios.com/netanyahu-deal-jewish-power-israel-election-be6b4501-fa62-472a-ad93-f73bb68a5cbc.html

Also, racism against Arab politicians from Netanyahu himself:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-facebook-chat-warns-arabs-want-to-annihilate-us-all/

[MarineCombatEngineer]

152. This is what YOU said:

People on this forum are supporting an extremist, rightwing government unconditionally.

You said, and I quote,"People on this forum are supporting an extremist, rightwing government unconditionally."

Those were your words were they not?

So, point out where anyone on this forum has done so.
I'll wait.................

[wellst0nev0ter]

155. If you support the killing of 63 children you support the government

I'll wait.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

159. I challenge you to point out anyone here supporting the killing of these children?

The only thing many of us have said is that if Hamas hadn't placed their rockets in civilian homes, then these children would still be alive, ergo, Hamas is responsible for their deaths.

That in no way equals support for the killing of children.

[Hekate]

157. Baldfaced, even

[RegularJam]

92. It was based off distortions...

And the Intercept is a bogus outlet for anything opinion related.

[LymphocyteLover]

93. Her basic point is valid. But clearly people get their feefees hurt by comparing us with the Taliban

and Hamas.

but we do have an appalling history and I think the point is fair even if she could have phrased it better.

[Budi]

94. Didn't she recently vote against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide

Guess That was no biggie either, huh.

Truth is, she is lobbing the shock-bombs of her leaders Max Bruger, Waleed Shahid, Saikat Chakrabarti. And lets not forget Cenk & his TYT financier, Buddy Roemer, rip.
All anti-Israel antisemites, anti Democratic & all, wait for it...multi-millionares.
Appears her whole message comes from the top.

But That's another Thread all together.
Talk about hurt feefees. It is based in pure hate.
"But..but..What she really meant to say..."
This isn't the 1st time her political directors have used her position to run their own personal hatred .

Division thru hate.
And her message is a lie for a shock-headline.
I personally believe she should be censored for her repeated violations & warnings.

It's not just her, it is the repeated anti-Democracy messaging from those handlers at the top who she speaks for.

Dig deeper than "hurt fee fees" 🙄

[George II]

97. "Present". Some "unthinkable atrocities" are acceptable?

[Budi]

98. Oh yes, 'Present'. Not a no, but a shrug.

The Hypocrisy is noted.

[George II]

99. In other words......

[Budi]

100. "Present, but I don't care."

👍

[wellst0nev0ter]

105. Omar said the Armenian genocide is in fact a genocide

She said she doesn't agree with using genocide as a political cudgel against the Enemy Of The Week.

Thanks for drudging up yet another nontroversy promulgated by her political enemies.

[Budi]

109. Haaahaa.. boy there's a totally innocent explanation for every shockbomb she throws

"She said she doesn't agree with using genocide as a political cudgel against the Enemy Of The Week."

WTF ever...
Omg. The hypocrisy is so damned rich with this one.

'Word salad' after 'Word salad'....she makes Palin look like a baby.

🤪

[wellst0nev0ter]

111. Did she, or did she NOT say that the Armenian genocide happened?

If she did condemn the Armenian genocide, then all you're doing is complaining about a message vote.

[betsuni]

115. I didn't understand her reasoning, that "we should demand accountability for human rights

abuses consistently, not simply when it suits our political goals."

She's a politician. That's politics.

[wellst0nev0ter]

119. It was a message bill that cheapens genocide to an act of political opportunism

Omar, who was victimized by that crass political opportunism (remember that resolution condemning antisemitism?) refuses to play along in those games.

[Budi]

123. Refuses, unless it suits a specific personal political agenda

C'mon.
Enough already of making excuses for her words, that not even SHE gives.

Not ONE at the top of that crew of multimillionare techies running the group is pro-Israel
The spokespeople have spoken. Then walk back from the ire & say it again.

Enough already.
Its well known what they represent.

I'm done with this circle ----

Btw. NOW OUR PRESIDENT BIDEN CONCLUDING THE G-7, IS THE NEWS WORTHY HEADLINE:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215524195

[wellst0nev0ter]

125. And the backlash against her isn't a personal political agenda

She said she condemns the Armenian genocide, but that is not enough for you, because there is always cheap political points to be scored against her.

You're free to indulge in topics that interest you, such as this one.

[Budi]

128. 🙄 and to the trash bin

Have fun..

[wellst0nev0ter]

129. How many times have you said "have fun" to me?

Guess I can't blame you for caring

[betsuni]

151. Why is it a "personal political agenda"? A politician's voting record isn't important?

We've been told over and over that holding feet to the fire and voting records are very very important.

[wellst0nev0ter]

158. And I demonstrated repeatedly that the backlash is in bad faith

Which points to a political agenda based on personal animus against Omar.

[betsuni]

124. Armenian Americans are happy about it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

126. Yes they are.

[Budi]

120. "not simply when it suits our political goals."

Wow.
"But..but..but..lemme explain (days later) what I reeeeaally meant."

Totally NOT political...😳

We'll have to wait for Waleed to issue the next headline to deflect from the LAST shockbomb headline.

Cuz ya know shit hit the fan of reality in the VA election wipeout.
"Fire up the base!!! Do Something!!!"
DEFLECT!!!...DEFLECT!!! We Need A Headline!!

ffs Waleed. Really?

[wellst0nev0ter]

142. Seriously, Who's Waleed?

Why bring up that name in this conversation?

[mcar]

134. But she's happy with grouping the US in with Hamas and the Taliban

as a political cudgel? That sounds a wee bit hypocritical to me.

[wellst0nev0ter]

143. We've already gone over why she named the U.S. aith the Taliban and Hamas

It's in the OP. Twitter prompts you to read the original article before you retweet for a reason.

[mcar]

153. Well bless your heart. I've read the OP

I'm responding because I have read it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

156. Bless your heart, too, dear

I've responded as such because your words make it obvious you have not read the OP.

[JustAnotherGen]

140. I wish she and her coalition

Would spend as much time denigrating Muslim Countries as they do Israel.

Maybe they have and I've missed it?

A few things -
MBS's purge in Saudi Arabia.
The lack of women's rights in Qatar, Kuwait, UAE.
Blasphemy laws.
Kidnappings of non-Muslim girls in Pakistan.
Female genital mutilation.

They should give Muslim countries equal time.



She and I are at odds.

[wellst0nev0ter]

144. Read the OP

Omar criticized the Taliban and Hamas too.

This is getting tiresome.

[Mariana]

147. As you said in your OP, baldfaced lies. nt.

[betsuni]

149. "This is getting tiresome."

Now you know how DU feels.

[LymphocyteLover]

146. why do you think she is driven by hate exactly?

[RANDYWILDMAN]

104. She is an easy target and we as country have a blind/black eye to israel

and it's behavior and our own.

[Budi]

108. Well her words & accusations may be part of that target problem.

She's done this same thing before & was called out for it by the congressional members she insulted, by mistake of course.
As with this issue.

She knowingly & willfully makes herself the target, again & again.

[Hortensis]

110. Again and again and again, so she obviously feels it works for her.

Horrible thought that so many find this behavior laudable, but even though we're the "good" party doesn't mean we're everything we need to be. Rising, or perhaps just more open, antisemitism on the left is appallingly real, especially among LW populists and radicals.

Btw, might as well drop this little bit here since it happened to be handy and may help explain support for Ms. Omar's alarming comment even as she's been forced by backlash to retreat from it. Badness knows there's plenty of antisemitism and anti-American sentiment among their populist counterparts on the right.

“We find that populist Democratic populists tend to consume conservative political news from outlets like Fox News, Breitbart, etc. ... This means that the influence of the conservative media is not limited to only Republicans who consume that content, but also populist Democrats.”

https://www.psypost.org/2021/02/populism-and-conservative-media-linked-to-covid-19-conspiracy-beliefs-among-both-republicans-and-democrats-59753

[H2O Man]

114. Recommended.

Rep. Ilhan Omar is not only among my favorite politicians of this era, but from all of American history. Though I'm not from her state, she represents me. Thus, I keep in touch with her office by e-mail and telephone.

[ChrisF1961]

122. To quote Nancy Pelosi on the issue

"We did not rebuke her. We acknowledged that she made a clarification," Pelosi told CNN's Dana Bash on "State of the Union." "Congresswoman Omar is a valued member of our caucus. She asked her questions of the Secretary of State. Nobody criticized those, about how people will be held accountable if we're not going to the International Court of Justice. That was a very legitimate question. That was not of concern."

Asked if she wants people to let the matter go, Pelosi replied, "She clarified, we thanked her, end of subject."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/13/politics/pelosi-ilhan-omar-democrats-cnntv/index.html

[Wanderlust988]

127. If the GOP takes over in 2022, she will probably be stripped of all committees

She will be the left wing version of MTG.

[Omaha Steve]

160. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

Because of the subject, this must be posted in I/P: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1134

GD: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum.