How serious was the "attempted coup" against our government?

[kentuck]

In hindsight, with further knowledge, it appears to have been very, very serious.

All that was needed was one small military unit, such as the National Guard, to take over the Capitol and prohibit the Congress from returning to count the Electoral votes. (The planning was in place at the Pentagon to prohibit any interference from anyone) They were told to not interfere with the rights of the protestors (seditionists).

In hindsight, VP Pence was somewhat of a hero. If the insurrectionists had captured him, it is possible they would have held him hostage, or even worse, they could have hanged him, as they threatened. We do not know what they might have done with Nancy Pelosi or AOC? Their lives were threatened, also.

Once the military unit had secured the Capitol, Trump could have told the rest of the military to stand down. He was the Commander-in-Chief and there is no reason to believe they would have betrayed his orders?

The successful coup was closer than we think. If the Congress, with VP Pence, had not gathered to finish the count that evening, January 6th, we do not know what might have happened?

It was a well-planned conspiracy. It almost worked. It is very easy to see how they could have succeeded.

Since then, we have learned of how several individuals were put in place in different Departments of the government to block any intervening efforts to stop the coup. They were embedded in the highest branches of government.

It was not an amateurish effort. It was a sophisticated and well-planned conspiracy to halt the count and to stop Joe Biden from being named as the next President.

It almost succeeded.

They still have not surrendered the effort. The threat still exists.

[Texaswitchy]

1. Came real close.

Still think about it.

[FBaggins]

2. It didn't come close

Even if they achieved everything that we’ve heard they wanted… it wouldn’t have changed the results of the election. It came close to being much worse… but not to success

[Mr.Bill]

5. They could have burned that building to the ground and

Joe Biden would still be President. And Donald Trump would especially still not be President. His term was up on January 20th, period.

[azureblue]

56. remember the noose outside?

They came to kill at least Pence, AOC. and Pelosi. They said so. That's what Trump wanted to have happen - he knew that if that happened, he could declare martial law. Why do you think he was egging the mob to attack Pence?

[Mr.Bill]

61. That gallows was nothing but a prop.

It was not a functioning gallows. It didn't have the angular structural support to hang a human being from it, nor a properly tied noose.

[Mad_Machine76]

94. Whether or not it was functional and could have been used

it's still the thought that counts, right?

[Mr.Bill]

100. Exactly. That's why I called it a prop.

It was there for symbolic reasons, not practical ones.

[hot2na]

13. It doesn't matter if it didn't come close.

It's still a crime. If you get caught with marijuana that is not so good, you cant claim that the weed was not so good so it wasn't a crime.

[FBaggins]

24. Of course it matters

And of course it's still a crime (for many of them anyway). But we don't need to worry that we were close to losing the country to a coup.

[AnrothElf]

17. I think it kinda did.

IIRC if the electoral count hadn't been confirmed by a certain date -- say, because of insurrection and martial law -- then it would have been up to the state delegates, dominated by repugs thanks to gerrymandering.

The insurrection was their hail Mary. I think very many were deadly serious... Any means necessary mentality

[FBaggins]

27. Donald Trump dreaming something doesn't make it a reality

Last edited Sat Jun 12, 2021, 10:13 PM - Edit history (1)

You do not, in fact, "RC". Trump's term would end on 1/20 regardless... and Congress could finish the count the next day... or the next week without changing the results.

I think very many were deadly serious... Any means necessary mentality

And yet these far-right militia-loving types didn't bring... you know... guns? They thought that Pence had powers as president of the senate that he simply didn't have (much as some on our side imagine that Harris has the power to get rid of the filibuster). The fact that they were wrong doesn't change the fact that they were breaking the law... but it does mean that there was never a threat to the country.

[AnrothElf]

60. Yes, they fucking did bring guns.

And pepper spray. And pipe bombs. And flagpoles, etc.

Why are you minimizing this?

[azureblue]

53. an attempted coup is an attempted coup

There are no degrees of seriousness. Like degrees of attempted murder or running a stop sign - there are no shades of gray. Any attempt is serious

[uponit7771]

75. Are we supposed to believe you or our lying eyes? They were seconds away from congress members they

... intensed to murder

[FBaggins]

85. Murdering a congressman or even the VP...

… would be far worse than what occurred… but still wouldn’t be close to taking over the country.

[FBaggins]

3. Oh puh-lease

If the military would have obeyed his orders to take over… why did he need the Capitol event at all??

[Texaswitchy]

4. A lot of people could have died.

More then the five.

[BGBD]

6. A small military unit like the NG?

That isn't a small group at all. Beyond that there are a few very big steps between a Ya'll Quada mob and a military coup.

[monkeyman1]

7. DEM. PARTY - BI-PARTISANSHIP IS " DEAD " -LEARN-ADJUST- APPLY ! NOT HARD !

[Jon King]

8. Stop, none of this was going to happen.....

The military leaders said many times they would not participate, the Supreme Court rejected every effort by Trumpers to intervene.

Even if everything you said would have happened, the vote would have been certified by the remaining members of Congress at any location they chose.

Big corporations make a ton of money from a stable America, what you describe would have resulted in the entire country shutting down, riots, boycotts....and all the kids and grandkids of the huge corporation CEOs would have had their cushy lives messed up.

Corporate America would have told the Repugs behind the scenes to get the election certified and move on. Sure they like Repug tax cuts....but they also need a stable country to make money, they would rather have a Democrat than Trump as a dictator ruling over a country shut down by strikes and cities being burnt to the ground.

[Stuart G]

10. Yes, the above is an excellent post....Please read above Jon King post number 8.

[Gaugamela]

14. Agreed that it probably wouldn't have succeeded, but that doesn't mean Trump wouldn't try.

He doesn’t live in the real world. And if he invoked the insurrection act he could issue “lawful” orders to bring in the military and federalize the National Guard.

[PortTack]

42. Well stated!!

[uponit7771]

76. So yeah military leaders did participate in slowing down the national guard response. If telling ...

... makes you feel better then you can tell yourself that that didn't happen but those who heard a congressional testimony of the flag officer for the national guard of DC understand the truth.

[DashOneBravo]

91. +1

[Joinfortmill]

9. Makes me shiver

[Gaugamela]

11. It seems all it would have taken is for the mob to seize hostages and Trump would have invoked

the insurrection act to declare martial law. That was the plan. If they took Pence hostage (or worse) Trump would have blamed it on Antifa. This is why he targeted Pence before and during the insurrection. Shortly after the election Trump had his henchmen installed at the DOD to carry out his orders in this.

Imagine the outrage and mobilization of protest from liberals and leftists all across the country. Huge crowds would have inundated the streets of America. There would have been police and NG riots in DC. In my opinion this is why high level DOD officials had military guards stationed to protect their homes early during the riot even as they denied help to congress. They knew what was going down.

[kentuck]

16. If Trump had told the military to "stand down" until Congress "resolved the issue"...

...knowing that Congress would not have continued the process, if there had been no VP Pence or no Nancy Pelosi. Trump would have announced that he would remain in control until the order was "restored". Joe Biden would never have been named the winner of the Electoral vote.
There would have been chaos and probable violence. The coup would have been complete.

[Gaugamela]

20. Yep. I suspect there were multiple ways to play it. Trump's MO is to create chaos and then

manipulate the outcome. He just keeps fomenting chaos and confusion until he gets what he wants. And he would have had the support of Republicans and right wing media.

[kentuck]

23. Exactly!

There is no reason to believe the Republican leaders or right-wing media would not have gone along with Trump if it had become a more chaotic situation.

[Gaugamela]

33. It also explains the bombs planted at the RNC and DNC headquarters. Had these been detonated

it would have given Trump even more cover for martial law. As I recall Pence was whisked out about 30 seconds before the mob showed up. This is by far the most serious threat to the Republic the country has ever faced. Thirty seconds!

[PortTack]

47. Except absolutely NO support from the military...which you absolutely have to have

Also one has to have control over the courts..that was not the case either

[Gaugamela]

55. The issue is not whether it would have worked, but whether Trump would have tried it. And if

Trump had been able to invoke the insurrection act, he could have legally used the military and National Guard at his discretion. Would the military have disobeyed a lawful order? How many laws and norms did we see upended during Trump’s tenure? Why wouldn’t he think he could get away with it? All coups are illegal until they succeed.

[PortTack]

63. Look at the video clip in post #47. Mark Milley was very clear he would not have issued any such

Order..regardless. as he pointed out in written notices to all serviceman, Ntl guard, reserves and active duty regarding legal and lawful orders and illegal orders. You can find that online in you care to.

For a service member to disregard their oath to the constitution, and follow a wanna be dictator is extremely harsh.

Under the insurrection act or martial law the courts would have had the final say. Even frump appointed judges right up to SCOTUS made it very clear they would not support his demands, but uphold the constitution

[Gaugamela]

69. I respect the military brass, but when push comes to shove I do not think they would disobey a

lawful order. And again, the question is what would Trump attempt. Consider what Trump might reasonably suspect would happen: the mob overruns the Capitol, the mob seizes and very possibly murders Pence and members of congress. Counter protesters which Trump expected to be there are part of the melee and Trump blames Antifa and BLM for all the violence. Bombs go off at the headquarters of the RNC and the DNC. Trump invokes the the insurrection act and legally calls out the military and the National Guard to enforce order. All over the country people are taking to the streets in numbers never seen before against a right wing coup. Hawley, Cruz, Cotten, et al are on TV bellowing about a leftist attempt to overthrow the government and the constitution. Right wing media are screaming at the top of their lungs about the clear duty of the military top brass to support their commander in chief. So — on what basis would Milley have disobeyed lawful orders, even if he wanted to? Again, this is how Trump sees this thing playing out. Trump is looking at losing his legal immunity and facing all kinds of litigation and prosecution. His business could collapse. He’s the worst kind of narcissist and a moron. What would stop him from trying?

Here is info on Milley from Wikipedia:

On June 1, 2020, during protests in Washington, D.C., in the wake of the murder of George Floyd, Milley joined National Guardsmen and various police forces assembling in Lafayette Square, across the street from the White House.[50] Minutes later, the troops and police used tear gas and other riot control tactics to disperse peaceful protestors so President Trump could stage a photo-op at nearby St. John's Episcopal Church. About half an hour after that, Milley, in combat uniform, walked alongside the president from the White House to the church, drawing sharp criticism from former military officers and others.[51][52][53][54][55][56] Milley subsequently refused to testify in front of Congress regarding the military's role in the response to the protests.[57] He reportedly considered resigning over the incident,[58] but chose instead to address it in a video recorded as his commencement address to the National Defense University. In that speech, streamed on June 11, Milley said he should not have been at the event because his presence created a perception of military involvement in domestic politics.[59] Milley testified in front of Congress in July 2020 about the military's role in the George Floyd protests.[60]

[Mad_Machine76]

95. The key word being "lawful"

I guess the question would be whether or not they would have considered such an order to be "lawful".

[uponit7771]

78. This is false a flag officer has already testified the military slowed down the national guard of DC

... response to the terrorist attack

I'll choose to believe my lying ears and eyes

[Evolve Dammit]

38. I think that is what they were anticipating. Capitol Security prevented it. Despite the roadblocks.

[kentuck]

39. I think they were already standing down, if not for the MD governor sending in his National Guard?

That was the key to stopping the on-going coup at that time, in my opinion.

[Evolve Dammit]

48. I defer to your knowledge of the specifics. We need a complete and thorough investigation.

[kentuck]

51. I would agree that we need a thorough investigation...

A Commission would have been preferable.

[Evolve Dammit]

89. the truth would be most inconvenient to a traitorous party

[uponit7771]

79. YES !!! Because the mayor and no one else had control of DC national guard at that time

.. if it wasn't for the Maryland national guard there would have been no control at all

[flotsam]

70. Also remember that but for the actions of a few

The insurrectionists could have taken the possession of the ACTUAL electoral votes held in those boxes-which might have made it tough to declare Biden the winner when congress did return...

[kentuck]

72. A very good point.

Some quick-thinking person took possession of the ballots during the attack.

[uponit7771]

99. RIGHT !!

[uponit7771]

77. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾, People want to blind themselves to how close we came to no democracy

[bucolic_frolic]

12. Yes, that is an accurate render of the insurrection

Whoever is actually behind it was adept at ignoring the traditional framework of power while using parts of that framework along with trusted installed others in or out of hierarchies to execute the plan. In a similar vein it was reported today that Barr and Rosenstein did *not* sign off on the data obtained from Apple on Congressmen in 2017 or 2018. Well, someone did. They even convinced a grand jury. Hello?

The low level operatives who breached the Capitol are being held to account. The Big Fish remain free to try again. They must be rooted out, but DOJ has the legal business of the country to attend to, and Congress has legislation to pass. So it's not clear if there is any effort to root out the traitors, and that network must be very very large, involve foreign as well as domestic players, have access to large amounts of funding, and as you say it's ongoing.

The question I have is how could they have put all those pieces in place, with all the high-level planning, launched the assault, yet failed to see the opening and enact their plan? They were incompetent? Doesn't sound like it. Happenstance? What is that?

Pres. Biden needs to clean house. All agencies, top to bottom. I don't think the traitors are gaining momentum at this point, I think MAGA support is waning as the truth leaks out, but it may take serious accountability to convince a substantial minority of America. Get on with it.

[Evolve Dammit]

40. great post. Hope the truth does more than leak out.

[David__77]

15. It was very serious.

There is a laxness, assuming that tomorrow will look like today. There was a serious rupture and the danger has not passed.

[Crunchy Frog]

18. They won't fail next time. If there is a next time.

[bottomofthehill]

30. If they ever get their hands on all the levers of government again, we are fucked.

[rgbecker]

19. As far as I know, Trump still hasn't conceded nor wished Biden well.

Only loser ever to not give a concession speech.

Think about it.

[Bev54]

21. Another thing that stymied the insurrection was they counted on

BLM and the left to be there to counter their demonstration, so there could be a big mess up and it would make it hard to tell on whose side people were on. The left did not give that to them, thus made it difficult for Trump to use the insurrection act to bring in military. I do think they were open about them going to the capitol, hoping to have counter protesters, instead their open social media is putting them all in prison.

[bottomofthehill]

28. Totally correct. The ability to blame others was not there.

Fucked up the whole, we brought the bats, clubs, chemicals, explosives etc and could blame no one but themselves.

[Fiendish Thingy]

22. If the scenario you describe played out, and held, right now we would have President Pelosi.

I would like to think the Republicans, preferring Biden to Pelosi, would have impeached and removed Trump if this scenario played out.

But if they didn’t, it would be welcome Madame President.

[bottomofthehill]

25. If not for the Metropolitan Police showing up to assist the Capitol Police in holding the line

And a little bit later, the New Jersey state police showing up and deciding this bull shit was over and fighting back. Maryland, and Virginia state troopers and Fairfax, Montgomery,Prince Georges and Prince William were all here to hold the line, NJ decided to buy back real estate. After all that, the National Guard showed up

[kentuck]

31. The MD Governor, a Republican, was another hero in this attempted coup...

He disrupted any military plans at that time by sending in the Maryland National Guard to quell the violence. It was then that Trump decided to call for the withdrawal of the insurrectionists and to tell them to go home and that were loved....blah...blah...blah...

[kentuck]

26. If his present scenario plays out...

He will claim a victory from an "audit" in Arizona, and possibly GA. All he would need to claim an electoral victory would be Wisconsin. He would then have more electoral votes than Joe Biden and he would claim that he was the "legitimate" President. The PTB do not want to count the votes in Wisconsin, he would argue, creating a very divisive and possibly violent situation.

This seems to be his strategy at this moment, in my opinion.

[Johnny2X2X]

29. It was not a threat to our democracy

But it was a threat to the safety of our leaders and would have caused a lot of turmoil for a long time. Biden was assuming the presidency no matter what happened 1/6.

[PortTack]

50. Exactly

[uponit7771]

80. I disagree, they were seconds away from murdering senators until the one guard

Last edited Sun Jun 13, 2021, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

... led them all away.

The FBI is literally showing post in testimony and witnesses saying they were intending to murder Congress members so they could not certify the election

I don't understand why people want to put their heads in the sand about this issue

[Johnny2X2X]

86. And how would that have changed the election?

There was no way they were going to change the outcome. They were just there committing terrorism.

[kentuck]

87. They were not "constitutionalists".

If they could prohibit the Congress from meeting, that would have been a significant matter. They were not accepting, and still do not accept, the election results.

[Johnny2X2X]

88. And that still wouldn't have been a coup

The election was not under threat of being overturned. A bunch of thugs may have been able to kill people and delay things a day or two, but the inauguration would have went on as planned and on time.

[kentuck]

92. Definition of a "coup"

From Wikipedia:

A coup d'état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/ (About this soundlisten); French for "blow of state&quot or just coup[1] is the removal and seizure of a government and its powers. Typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a political faction, the military, or a dictator.[2] Many scholars consider a coup successful when the usurpers seize and hold power for at least seven days

[Johnny2X2X]

93. Yeah, we were nowhere near that

No one seized power, they delayed congress for a few hours, even if the delay would have gone in for days it wouldn’t have been a seize of power.

[uponit7771]

96. They didn't have to change it just delay it, I don't know what peoples problems are with 1/6

... but that was some shit and it should be taken seriously.

History has told us they'll be back if we don't

[Johnny2X2X]

97. Whoa not taking it seriously?

It was one of the darkest days in our nation’s history, but it was not anywhere close to a coup.

[uponit7771]

98. It didn't have to be close, that's not taking it seriously to set what happened up to fail a false

... metric of "close" where the attempt and follow ups is a democracy destroyer in itself.

Historically all they have to do is attempt it and the insurrection in other forms will continue and it has.

We may have worse than 1/6 now and its the utter outward insurgency against the constitution implemented by GQP because there's no national demonization of 1/6.

I mean we need the federal level erroring to the point of treating these assholes ... JUST LIKE ... terrorist and demonizing their asshole supporters in congress to the point of investigations for supporting the terrorist.

Some think that is going to far but that's the mindset of close not being horrid enough.

Lets learn from the past that we don't repeat the bad parts of it.

[tiptonic]

32. I think, therefore I am

I think I smell Putin in all this.

[gab13by13]

36. Actually, I am therefore I am.

[kentuck]

37. From the very beginning...

I would agree.

There were no guardrails. The rules and regulations meant nothing to Donald Trump. Witness the number of Democratic leaders he was willing to spy upon, including Schiff and Swalwell, and we do not know who else may have on the subpoena list?

[gab13by13]

34. Everyone is looking at this rationally,

adhering to laws and the Constitution.

Answer me this those who think this was not really serious. What would have happened had they not gone back that night and certified the votes? What would have happened? Think about it. There were objections from casting the ballots of several states. When Speaker Pelosi convinced Pence to go back that night the effect of the terrorist insurrection was still fresh. The objections of those states were voted down, would they have been had they waited? If they had waited until the next day turmoil would have erupted, if the count could not have been completed then MF45 could have intervened, he could have declared martial law, a suspension of the certification or some other non-normal procedure.

I truly believe that had not Speaker Pelosi convinced Pence to go back that night that MF45 would still be president.

[Evolve Dammit]

45. you could very well be correct. It was very close, and the traitors need to be locked up.

[PortTack]

58. The constitution CLEARLY states frump's term in office would have ended on 1/20/2021 regardless

And had there been any interruptions in the certification of the vote, an interim president would have been declared.say hello to President Pelosi.

Declaring martial law would not have allowed frump to stay in power either. 1. The military did not back him. 2. reasons to declare martial law are if local officials are unable to contain lawlessness, or if there is not a functioning court system. Neither were the case

[stillcool]

35. the scene at Lafayette Park had such an impact

on me, that Jan. 6th was not surprising. The worst part of all of it, as you mentioned, was the need for many, many people in positions to make things happen across the government, and across the country. It wasn't, and isn't a one man band. Everyone playing has something to say, and I just hope when the time comes they sing their hearts out.

[brooklynite]

41. Sorry, but occupying the Capitol wouldn't have stopped the count

The Capitol has no official status in the legislative process. They could have been at the Convention Center or Nationals Stadium.

[kentuck]

44. It would have been like herding cats...

to try and get Democrats and Republicans together at that time, in another place, in my opinion. Republicans would have blocked it.

[brooklynite]

49. McConnell was happy to go on with the count. He wouldn't have blocked it somewhere else

[gab13by13]

54. You mean like Jeb Bush?

[PortTack]

59. Blocking the count would have ended up with An interim President..President Pelosi

Until such a time the vote was certified

[gab13by13]

52. You are absolutely correct,

January 6th should have only been a formality, I say, so what? How many laws and norms did MF45 break in 4 years?

It would have been a different outcome had Congress not finished the tally that night, I believe that with all my heart.

In 4 years MF45 broke many laws, violated the Constitution many times, and got away with it. What would have happened if the next day he suspends the certification because of safety concerns and declares martial law?

You are 100% correct what should have happened, but then again I remember history. I remember the brother of a presidential candidate stopping the counting of ballots in Florida when Al Gore was going to overtake his brother. I remember for the first time in our nation's history that the Supreme Court picked our president. That scenario was against the law, it should not have happened, am I right?

[kentuck]

57. Also, if something had happened to Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi....

...there would not have been an electoral count the next day. It would have been postponed indefinitely.

[PortTack]

66. house majority leader Steny Hoyer would have taken her place as he is #2

[uponit7771]

81. Murdering Congress members would have though, they are testifying that with their intention

[orleans]

43. doesn't it make you cringe a bit to write: "In hindsight, VP Pence was somewhat of a hero"

it makes me cringe just to read that.

[kentuck]

46. Yes, as a matter of fact, it does make me cringe to write such a thing...

But, I think that is now the case.

[gab13by13]

62. I think that Speaker Pelosi was the real hero.

She was the driving force to continue the count that night, I think she understood what might happen if they waited.

[JHB]

64. It was planned, but not "well-"planned, and it was, in fact, amateurish. That's why it failed.

Trump was relying on his mob-boss habits -- "Make my wishes known and see who delivers for me" -- instead of doing actual planning and making real arrangements.

There were a couple of organized groups involved, but they were organized among their own selves, not communicating with others, and not coordinating toward reaching specific objectives.

He and his flunkies did try to clear a path, but they left the essential, dirty make-it-happen work to poorly organized goofball zealots.

A strike team that knew the f*** what it was doing could have achieved his goal, but the guy in charge was Donald F***ing Trump, so quality was never going to be Job One, deniability was.

[oldsoftie]

65. The military wouldnt follow unlawful orders

The military leaders had already made that clear

[uponit7771]

82. The military was involved in slowing down the response to the DC national guard.

[PA_jen]

67. Extremely close! and still very dangerous as you have Trumpers/ politicians still

speak in violent terms.

[BobTheSubgenius]

68. What eats at me is that it would not have taken a very large well-armed suppression force...

...to turn the insurrection into mewling children. Granted, some of the rabble were experienced men of violence and training, and presumably motivated, as well. They might not have collapsed so quickly, but well-armed, hard men would be very persuasive to them...knowing what might be coming next.

It's not lost on me that turning them into martyrs would be a great risk in this scenario, but it might have a chilling effect on others waiting in the wings. There was and is no easy way out. We all hope to whatever we view as the Supreme that it will never happen again, but it might well come to a shooting war that hypothetical next time.

[kentuck]

73. If not for the heroic efforts of the Capitol Police...

...it could have, and probably would have been much worse? Their resistance was similar to the resistance at Fort Sumter.

(The Battle of Fort Sumter (April 12–13, 1861) was the bombardment of Fort Sumter near Charleston, South Carolina by the South Carolina militia (the Confederate Army did not yet exist), and the return gunfire and subsequent surrender by the United States Army, that started the American Civil War.) From wikipedia

[Ligyron]

71. Hey, be careful here.

Let’s not give them any ideas for a “next time “.

[LiberatedUSA]

74. While it was serious, it didn't look like they have talked for years.

They had a few guns, but they didn’t have death squads of people armed with AR-15, their death squads were dressed for a Skyrim convention.

We can probably thank the overall Washington security for them not making it there looking like mall ninjas. It was bad, but all the guns they have at home, I am surprised it wasn’t worse. They won’t get another chance.

[uponit7771]

83. Their intentions was to murder Congress person so they couldn't certify the election...

... they didn't need guns for that

[UCmeNdc]

84. It was and is a very serious matter. It was a coup attempt orchestrated by the Trump admin

A serious investigation into this coup attempt would determine just how close they were to actually succeeding in the overthrow of the government.

[KentuckyWoman]

90. I believe the military would have ultimately disobeyed him.

Officers and enlisted personnel do have the right and responsibility to disobey unlawful orders. However, I would expect the aftermath of doing so would not be pretty.

Saying this, I've recently been absolutely shocked by how many AREN'T showing DJT the door. His support at every level of government, and among the population is astonishing. At this point, I am unsure what to expect.

[mvd]

101. It was ragtag like everything the Thing tried. But it was very serious

We have never had such a scene in the Capitol before. Trump and these insurrectionists clearly wanted to overthrow democracy.