The NRA was once the good guy.

[AndyS]

In the 1920s
The National Revolver Association, which was part of the NRA, proposed requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Other aspects of the NRA’s legislation: adding five years prison time if a gun was used in a crime, prohibiting the sale of a gun to a non-citizen, imposing a one-day waiting period before a purchaser could take possession of a gun, and opening records of gun sales to police. Nine states adopted the legislation.

I have told gunners for years that they are the ones best suited to write gun laws. Of course it fell on hostile ears. We will have sensible gun laws, laws the will reduce the number and kind of guns in circulation to a small fraction of what we have today. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but it will come and the gunners aren't going to be happy.

That's what happens when those who love a thing let others regulate it for them.

A History of the NRA
https://hickoryrecord.com/news/history-of-the-nra/collection_772d86f7-a01a-586a-abc8-930bcaa6d4f3.html#1

A short easy read and well worth the few minutes to better know who we are dealing with.

[Bettie]

1. Hasn't been one in a LONG time

Republicans used to be decent human beings too.

Not anymore.

[Bucky]

38. Thank you. The NRA resisted any gun laws after RFK & MLK assassinations.

That's 59 years at least of blind obstruction

[DenaliDemocrat]

2. They used to teach hunter education in school too

When I was n Jr High almost half of us took hunter education as sixth graders after school.

[Bucky]

39. One thing about championing deregulation of semi auto rifles & extended magazines...

You don't have to teach target practice. With enough firepower, hitting the target isn't really a problem.

[DenaliDemocrat]

46. As a person who has been charged by grizzly bears

And killed moose, I disagree. Magnum rounds are too large for semi-autos. I have a .416 Rigby. You still need to hit where you aim.

[Bucky]

47. Sometimes my jokes miss the target too

apparently

[DenaliDemocrat]

50. When it comes to guns around here

It’s hard to discern what people actually believe. It’s hard to tell.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. If its reasons for supporting those policies were racist and classist, does that still make it "the

good guy"?

[sarisataka]

18. It doesn't seem anyone

Wants to address your question.

I expect it will continue to be ignored; it leads into further uncomfortable reflection regarding if the present is different.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Lotta experts on this thread. Maybe it's something they already knew and don't feel like it needs

further discussion.

[Dial H For Hero]

4. What you predict will happen would require roughly 80% to 90% of firearms to be confiscated.

I don't think that's likely to happen for the foreseeable future.

[Hoyt]

5. No reason not to have it as a goal. We've coddled gunners too long.

[Dial H For Hero]

6. Hm...I don't feel particularly "coddled".

[Hoyt]

8. Well, Hero, you have been. No other country would put up with your gun love.

[Dial H For Hero]

9. The Czech Republic would. Check out this picture of a typical Czech gun shop:

Firearm laws are considerably less restrictive there than in many states in the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_Czech_Republic

[Hoyt]

10. Czech Republic, LMAO. And they have tougher requirements than most rube red states.

[Dial H For Hero]

12. Many of their laws are looser than those we have at the national level.

Silencers: No special paperwork, fees, or waiting period. In the US, pay $200, lots of paperwork, and around 9 months for approval.

Large caliber weapons: Up to 20mm treated no differently than anything else. In the US, anything over 12.7mm is technically possible to own, but highly restricted in practice.

Concealed carry: If you can own a handgun, you can carry it concealed. In the US, a number of states (for practical purposes) don't issue concealed carry permits to "ordinary" citizens.

[Beastly Boy]

11. Do you personally meet all these qualifications? How many US gun owners would?

From the Wikipedia page you cited:

Obtaining a license

An applicant applies for a gun license at a designated local office of the National police. If the conditions of age, qualification, health clearance, criminal integrity and personal reliability are met and a fee of 700 CZK (US$ 30.52) per type is paid, the license shall be issued in thirty days.[18] The license must be renewed every ten years[13] (no need to undergo qualification exam if the application is filed at least two months before termination of the previous license; health clearance still necessary[19]).
Age

To obtain a B or C type license, the applicant must be at least 18 years old. Under special circumstances, the applicant need only be 15 if a member of a sporting club, or 16 if taught hunting in schools with such a curriculum. To obtain an A, D or E type license, the applicant must be 21.[20]
Qualification
Apart from gun legislation, the theoretical part of the exam focuses also on first aid
Field strip is usually required to demonstrate "safe handling"

Obtaining the license requires passing a theoretical and practical exam.

Theoretical exam: The theoretical exam consists of a written test of 30 multiple choice questions (Created and distributed by the Ministry of the Interior) with a maximum of 79 points possible. To pass the written exam, 67 points are needed for typey A, 71 for type B or C, and 74 for type D or E.[21] The test deals with the following issues:

knowledge of firearms legislation,[22]
knowledge of legislation related to legitimate use of firearm (e.g. self-defense),[23]
general knowledge of firearms and ammunition,[24] and
first aid.[25]

Practical exam

Safe handling:[26] this comprises

inspecting, whether the firearm is loaded (safely unloading),[27]
field stripping as needed for clean-up,[28]
preparation of firearm and ammunition for shooting, shooting, procedure of handling the firearm in case of malfunction, conclusion of shooting.[29]

Touching the trigger, pointing in different than appointed safe direction or trying to field strip loaded gun (dummy round is used) results in the applicant failing the exam. Depending on the types of licenses sought, applicants may be asked to show their ability of safe manipulation on multiple firearms (typically CZ 75 and/or CZ 82 pistol, bolt-action CZ 452 rifle and a double-barreled shotgun).[30]

Shooting test,[31] which requires specific scores dependent on the type of license applied for:

For the B type license it is 25m on rifle target (A4 sheet sized) with 4 out of 5 rounds hitting the target sheet shooting from a rifle (2 out of five for A type). .22 Long Rifle chambered rifle is used.[32] Alternatively, an applicant can shoot a pistol on 50/20 pistol target at 10 m.
For the C type license, the applicant must fires at 25m with a rifle (same as cat. B) and also successfully hit the rifle target from the distance of 25m shooting from a shotgun (Usually double-barreled), 3 out of 4 rounds must hit the target (at least partially).[33]
For the E type license, the applicant must successfully hit the international pistol target 50/20 (50 cm x 50 cm) from a distance of 10m (15m for D type license) shooting from a pistol, 4 out of 5 rounds must hit the sheet (2 out of 5 for A type).[34]

In each of the cases above, the actual score is irrelevant; the projectiles simply have to hit the target sheet within the circles.[35] Also in each case, the applicant is allowed 3 test shots to familiarize with the particular firearm used for the test. The shotgun is an exception to this, where only one round is allowed as a test shot.[36

I wouldn't object to the indiscriminate gun ownership in the US if every gun owner went through the same process before obtaining a firearm.

[Dial H For Hero]

13. I could easily meet those requirements. I suspect most (certainly not all) American gun owners

could as well.

The fact remains that on the whole, the average citizen of the Czech Republic has considerably greater access to a wider variety of firearms than those in some US states such as California, New Jersey, New York, etc.

[AndyS]

22. Really? I can drive down to the local Walmart parking lot and buy a gun from some guy

on the internet with no background check. And it's legal.

How freakin' restrictive is that? Forget 'ghost guns' . . .

[Dial H For Hero]

24. Such a purchase is not legal in Colorado (where I live) or in California, New Mexico, New Mexico,

or a number of other states.

In every state in the US, purchasing a silencer requires one to file paperwork & fingerprints with the FBI, wait almost a year for approval, and pay $200 for the privilege. How freakin' restrictive is that? By way of comparison, in the Czech Republic they're sold over the counter.

That the Czech Republic's gun laws are less restrictive than ours in some respects is undeniable.

[AndyS]

26. I repeat; some parking lot, two strangers, no background check and no records kept.

And then there's ghost guns.

Nice diversion to silencers which have been nowhere in this conversation. Silly attempt at what-aboutism and a total fail but ya' tried.

[Dial H For Hero]

28. I said their laws were less restrictive than ours in *some* respects.

Was that not sufficiently clear?

And then there's ghost guns.

Nice diversion to silencers which have been nowhere in this conversation. Silly attempt at what-aboutism and a total fail but ya' tried.

You are the only person in this thread who has mentioned "ghost guns". Does that count as a diversion?

As for silencers, I'm not the only person who has mentioned them.

A total fail on your part, but credit where it's due...ya' tried.

Anyhoo, I'm out of here. It's going to be almost 100 degrees in Denver for the next few days, so I'm off to the mountains to cool off!

[Beastly Boy]

31. Can you articulate which Czech gun laws are less restricted than ours and in what?

[Dial H For Hero]

52. Silencers being sold over the counter and "shall issue" at the national level.

No local restrictions on “assault weapons “. Also, unless I’m mistaken, much easier to own short barreled rifles.

[Beastly Boy]

54. Silencers require license and registration. "Shall issue" is preceded by rigorous vetting and

a 30 day wait period. The same goes for "assault rifles", and since the Czech Republic is not a federation, all national gun laws and regulations extend to local municipalities.

You have succeeded in outlining some differences between Czech laws and US laws, but they don't amount to more lax gun laws. Each example you cited is preceded by, and therefore includes, the stringent mandatory process a prospective gun owner must undertake before obtaining ANY firearm, which is far more rigorous than anything in the US. Silencers, "assault weapons", "shall issue", short barreled rifles, etc., are all appended and conditional to obtaining this initial qualification. Over the counter silencers in themselves do not indicate unrestricted availability.

Ok, I will admit, my question is not really fair, because it forces you to compare apples to oranges. But even a cursory look at the Czech gun laws leave no doubt that, in aggregate and in the particulars, they are far more stringent than those in the US.

[Beastly Boy]

30. I am sure you could. But do you?

In the Czech Republic, if you don't, you can't have a gun. Period. Not an option. Theirs is the difference between responsible gun ownership and having no responsibilities attached to gun ownership. I am all in favor of responsible gun ownership. When "could" becomes "must" in the US, I will have no problems with guns or gun owners.

[sarisataka]

21. These requirements don't seem unreasonable

I don't think more than 2% would fail to pass.

To look further, silencers are available over the counter in the Czech Republic. Concealed carry permits are shall issue and there are no "gun free zones." Approximately 81% of Czech gun owners licenses allow them to concealed carry.

Do you still have no objection to Czech style laws?

[Beastly Boy]

37. I would speculate there are more than 2% of gun owners who are under 18 yo.

So that alone takes us over the 2% who would be ineligible to own guns. Additionally, there are matters of "qualification, health clearance, criminal integrity and personal reliability" that must be met. Different types of firearms would require separate licenses. A 30 day wait period. Registration is required for every firearm. Special permit for silencers. Passing theoretical and practical exams alone will likely weed out hordes of morons with a gun fetish who only want to play "patriots" and "liberators". The AR15 freaks would likely not know how to handle a .22 caliber long rifle described in the test requirements. And don't even get me started on health clearance, which must be undertaken every 10 years.

And the Wikipedia link doesn't even mention the severity of penalties which await the violators.

Yeah, safeguards like these would likely eliminate up to 90% of human casualties incurred by firearms in the US, and I will have no objections to Czech style laws. In fact, I would welcome them.

[sarisataka]

41. Since it is illegal for licensed dealers

To sell to people under 18 (with a few limited exceptions) most of those guns would actually depend on the parents to purchase them. I highly doubt you will find that 2% in the under 18 crowd.

As for health etc. unless you are setting standards that are way above average (which would have Constitutional issues) the majority are going to fly through.

The unsubstantiated commentary about intelligence and that someone who owns an AR being unable to figure out a 22LR is simply bias and not worthy of further comment.

I'm not sure what you mean by penalties, usually the only penalty for failing to pass the requirements for getting a license is not getting the license.

Let's assume however a ridiculous percentage fail the tests. Based on an estimated 72 million gun owners a 25% fail rate would reduce that number to 54 million. Given the Czech ratio about 43 million of those would then be able to carry concealed. There would be no restrictions on carry in schools, bars, etc and public buildings would have to provide secure storage for firearms if they wish to prohibit them on premises. It is estimated as of 2018 the US has 17 million concealed carry permits issued.

If all of that adds up to a 90% reduction in firearms related death/ injury sign me up. I will personally carry that bill on a velvet pillow to Biden for his signature. But first I would like to check your math.

[AndyS]

27. Happened in Australia. Gunners there didn't like either. Makes my heart bleed yellow water . . .

[Dial H For Hero]

29. Australia isn't the US. If the US actually attempts to confiscate the majority of fireams held in

private hands, I invite you to come back to this thread and mock me until the end of time for my lack of precognition.

[AndyS]

33. Rebelling against the government hasn't worked out so well for the Jan 6ers.

Drag out your precious and and shout Come and TAKE IT in front of Federal Marshals and see how it works out.

Ruby Ridge?

David Koresh?

Yeah, be a tough guy. See how it works against the forces of the United States of America.

Don't save all the Confederate money, Boy, the South ain't gonna rise again . . . ever.

I invite you to put your body where your words are.

[Dial H For Hero]

51. Where did I say I was going to defy the US government?

I simply expressed the opinion that the chances of the government confiscating the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands is virtually nil. Your reaction was to invite me to get myself killed resisting such an action.

That doesn’t speak well of you.

[AndyS]

53. I apologize for my interpretation of your response.

It certainly seemed to indicate that any attempt to 'confiscate' guns in the US would result in violent opposition.

Given the proliferation of militant gun groups like:

3 Percenters
Not Fucking Around Coalition
Arizona Border Recon
Sasabe Hutaree
Idaho Light Foot Militia
Michigan Militia
Militia of Montana
Missouri Citizens Militia
Missouri Militia
New York Light Foot Militia
Oath Keepers
Ohio Defense Force
Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia
Texas Light Foot Militia

it isn't surprising that one might jump to that conclusion.

[Dial H For Hero]

55. I think a violent response to the government attempting to confiscate 80% of guns would be

a virtual certainty. The question is, what percentage of gun owners would violently resist such an attempt? 10%? 1%? Less?

Be that as it may, I was objecting to your comment which was made towards me on a personal basis, given that I have never made the slightest indication that I would resist in such a manner.

[AndyS]

56. As I was responding to your personally addressing me. nt

[Dial H For Hero]

57. How does my invitation for you to mock me if my prediction is wrong justify your suggestion that I

I should violently engage the US government, likely resulting in my death?

Not to mention calling me “boy”….

[AndyS]

58. First, the 'Boy' was a paraphrase of a '50s vintage C&W song

and is a misquote, should have read 'Boys'. Referred to confederate soldiers and the worthless money they were paid with. It was NOT a racial slur.

Secondly I was responding to a post I took as aggressive and explained to you why.

I am weary of spoon feeding you information.

Accept my apology or not, I'm done.

[Polybius]

34. There's two things they didn't have that we do:

A 2nd Amendment and a right-wing Supreme Court.

[AndyS]

35. The 2nd doesn't mean what gunners are brain washed to think it does.

Things change and like Dylan said, the times they are a changin' . . .

[Polybius]

36. To the Court it does

Confiscating won't happen.

[sarisataka]

42. It's a moot point

I have heard from many very strong proponents of gun control that nobody is talking about confiscation and indeed nobody wants to confiscate guns.

Confiscation is just an NRA talking point to scare up more members.

[YMB]

45. Realistically confiscation isnt possible.

But that doesnt stop certain politicians from saying it to varying degrees (like Beto, Pelosi, Biden) which only further enforces the 2a crowds paranoia on the subject. There is also no shortage of people in this forum specifically who would be in favor of it which also helps muddy the waters from ANY type of mutual policies from happening in fear of the "slippery slope" argument.

[AndyS]

43. Australia didn't confiscate guns. They bought them. Gunners had two options:

sell their guns to the government or keep them and become criminals who forfeit some rights like the right to own a gun.

For the US we have a mechanism in place; eminent domain. Seizing property with some form of compensation for the benefit of the country at large. We do it with land a lot to build highways or, lately, a wall. It can be used with guns.

[USALiberal]

40. No NRA gun nut I know would never turn in their guns. They would die first. nt

[AndyS]

44. Uh, that could happen. nt

[Hoyt]

7. NRA Leadership in recent years-- John Bolton, Bob Barr, Grover Norquist, Ted Nugent,

Chuck Norris, Larry Craig, Allen West, gun profiteers, etc.

http://nraontherecord.org/

Don't think the list above has been updated since 2016.

[hack89]

14. The Federal AWB of 1994 was the greatest political gift the NRA ever received

it so fundamentally changed how guns are viewed in America that just getting back to where we were in 1993 would be very difficult. It opened up the floodgates to liberalizing gun laws in America as the gun control groups were not prepared for the inevitable NRA counter-attack.

[Dial H For Hero]

16. I agree. Ironically enough, had the '94 AWB not been passed, the number of "assault weapons"

currently in private hands would almost certainly be many millions fewer.

[SYFROYH]

15. This "history" shows the NRA of today was born out of gun control efforts.

The NRA of today is a reaction. It's hard to say what will happen in the future.

From 1967 - 1994 we saw tightening gun control at the federal and state levels. A good 24-year run.

Then we the pendulum swing to loosening of federal laws (really just the AWB sunsetting), but state laws really changed. It was a good run from 1994-2018 -- 24 years.

The Stoneman Douglas mass shooting was a pivotal event where we saw changes in state laws -- red flag laws took off in popularity. But on the other hand, we see the loosening of gun laws too such as permitless carry.

These next 20 years are going to differ from previous eras.

[Chainfire]

17. In my mind, the NRA completed its transformation from a gun safety organization to a

Right wing political organization in 1995, with their "Jack Booted Thugs" letter, referring to Federal agents, carrying out their duty
against right-wing terrorists. I now see the NRA as the armed wing of the Republican Party; a bunch of Brown Shirts, in coats and ties.

[keithbvadu2]

19. The NRA used to be for sportsmen, hunters and gun safety.

The NRA used to be for sportsmen, hunters and gun safety.

Now it has become an industry owned shill for the sale of more guns and the enrichment of its leaders.

[jmowreader]

20. At the current time...

...the best program the NRA has is Eddie Eagle, a gun safety program for children. It teaches them that if they see a gun, don’t touch it and tell an adult. It does not teach them to shoot the things.

[AndyS]

23. Unfortunately there is no difference in the behavior toward guns by children

who have had Eddie Eagle training and those who have not. Not saying it's a bad idea, just that it sadly doesn't work.

[Hoyt]

32. Yeah, some white wing gun-humping nutjob teaching children about gunz.

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[Johonny]

48. I think what we learned in recent years is the NRA exists to enrich their management

at the expense of the NRA's viability.

[GulfCoast66]

49. When I was a kid the NRA meant gun safety. And the Southern Baptist convention had liberal churches

The nut jobs took over both.

I’m no longer associated with either.