Was Lincoln right?

[bigtree]

Abraham Lincoln quote:

While the people retain their virtue and vigilance, no administration, by any extreme of wickedness or folly, can very seriously injure the government in the short space of four years.

-First Inaugural Address (1861)

[DFW]

1. I guess that depends on what is meant by serious injury

Though we may have avoided any fatal blows, my assessment is that the Trump „presidency“ left the nation critically injured.

[bigtree]

2. I think I agree

...fundamental damage was done to all three branches in his term.

I was inclined to believe his sentiment before Trump.

[RegularJam]

14. My reply below contradicts yours a bit.

But I think yours is more of a fair statement.

[DFW]

20. That's OK.

If there's anything I'm used to on DU, it's that!

[TreasonousBastard]

3. I agree, but the key words are...

"While the people retain their virtue and vigilance..."

Last year 75 million did not.

[Trailrider1951]

10. That clause is absolutely the key to the rest of the quote

I'm nearly 70 years old, and I have seen first-hand the downgrading that has happened to Public Education in this country, beginning in the early 1970's. Science and Math were once the Holy Grail of Education in the USA, back in the 1950's and early 1960's. The English language was taught in great detail, along with French, German, Latin and Spanish in my high school. Art and Music were required of elementary students, and offered as electives in high school. Things really began to change around 1968, with the Civil Rights upheavals, the student unrest over Vietnam, and the assassinations of our liberal leaders. The Powell memo in the early 1970's was the blueprint for what we have now: a large part of American voters who have been uneducated and miseducated all their lives, and when exposed to the propaganda of Fox "News", Newsmax, and One America "News", are ripe for manipulation by emotional hot-button topics like abortion, crime, guns and the like.

And that's where we are today. Public school teachers now have to teach to the test, instead of guiding the children's innate intellectual curiosity. Scientific method now stands on the same level as creationism. University students whose families are not wealthy are having to mortgage their futures in order to educate themselves. And that present-day education is now more of a training ground for the job market, instead of the exploration of ideas that it should be. It's vulture capitalism to its core.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Klaralven]

4. It may have been true in Lincoln's day, but the power of the President is greatly increased

WW I, WW II and the Cold War all contributed to making the executive much more powerful than the other two branches.

[brush]

5. Just as Abe couldn't imagine the evilness of a trump, neither could the founding fathers...

imagine the wickedness of the present-day, anti-democracy republican party.

[empedocles]

6. Seems too soon to render a verdict on the 4 trump years to me. If strong justice on trump prevails

and the 'cons are seriously damaged, the U.S. survives at least ok.

If justice doesn not prevail, the trump/trumper will have - 'won'.

[bigtree]

8. good points

...we are substantially altered as a nation 'if justice does not prevail.'

[brush]

17. Seriously? Too soon, do you not remember the stolen seats on SCOTUS?

The failure to convict on impeachment twice, and the failure of the republican party to authorize a commission to investigate the Jan.6 attempted coup.

There is an on-going movement to overthrow out democracy, what with all the vote suppression bills passing in red states all over then nation and the faudit going on in Arizona which the GOP will of course try to do in other states.

We need to stop acting like trump was just a bad dream. He did significant damage and the big lie is till being pushed by the GOP with plans to use it in helping them take over the House and Senate in '22. And look out if they do because fascism won't be far behind.

[RegularJam]

13. Abe could imagine people just as bad as Trump.

Some were close to him.

[WarGamer]

7. The way our system is configured...

Pretty much everything can be reversed by the next administration.

Trump wiped out a lot of Obama work and Biden is erasing Trump crap.

[lpbk2713]

9. Lincoln was relying on a Congress of honorable and ethical patriots.

Times have changed in 160 years in so many ways Lincoln could not have imagined.

[empedocles]

15. All that passed the 13th Amendment, were not honest and ethical.

Lincoln according to the documentary, 'Lincoln', I recently saw, said to his immediate confidantes as they counted probable votes, and they were short - Lincoln in the documentary clearly said, 'I need you to procure those votes'. Apparently, they did 'procure' enough votes.

The Founding Fathers were very aware of the risks of 'tyrants and mobs'. Corruption also.

[RegularJam]

11. Yes.

There are multiple factors that brought about the possibility of Trump and these factors have been cooked up for decades.

We are still the United States of America. Elections are currently taking place. We have a voice on the world stage. We continue marching toward equality for all. This is all post Trump.

[andym]

12. While the people retain their virtue and vigilance.... have they?

Certainly many have, but many have had their virtue brainwashed away by the likes of Fox News.

[JHB]

16. Yes, he was right. However, this has not been going on for "four short years"

Trump is a symptom, not a cause. Conservatives have been steadily radicalizing the Republican Party for over 50 years, and they have actively denied the legitimacy of Democratic administrations since the day after Election Day, 1992.

[brush]

19. Right. They've been trying to turn back FDR's New Deal policies since the '30s.

And many of those policies have served the nation well. LBJ finished the job as his Great Society policies inclusive of Black people and other POCs.

[lagomorph777]

18. "While the people retain their virtue and vigilance" - now there's the catch.