What if the former guy suddenly became a Democrat?

[Cary]

We know that he could murder someone on Fifth Avenue in broad daylight and not lose a single cult follower.

But what if he became a Democrat? Whatever would the mopes do?

[Jilly_in_VA]

1. This is not an option

We would not have him.

[Cary]

2. It is a thought experiment

[Atticus]

3. I just trashed an OP which, if posted, would risk a visit from Agent Mike this evening. nt

[True Dough]

4. No one would believe him

We'd question his motives, and for damn good reason!

[Cary]

8. Has one of his cult followers ever questioned his motives?

The question was what would his cult followers do?

[True Dough]

19. I don't care about those people, to be honest

Trump trying to change his stripe just wouldn't be plausible to the rest of us, the sane ones.

[Cary]

20. They're dangerous

I care about our nation and they're a threat that I ignore at my peril

[True Dough]

29. I don't ignore them entirely

but I just can't be bothered getting invested in what they think. Trump disciples always going to be hostile to Democratic principles and would likely ascribe ulterior motives to the Orange Arsehole switching allegiances, just like we would, but they would probably profess that he's going to find a way to sink the Dems from the inside, or something.

Look what happened with Joe. He came into office preaching about bipartisanship and "reaching across the aisle." He's been forced to abandon that because of their recalcitrance.

[Cary]

33. We must defeat and demoralize them

[Marie Marie]

5. I still have nightmares about what if...

what if he had run (the same campaign that attracted all the crazies) as a Democrat and had still won? His cult was all about him - not the party so just maybe, that could have happened. And yes, I know that our party would not have enabled him like the GOP but he would still be our albatross.

[Salviati]

28. His mean girl snarking wouldn't have worked in the Democratic Primary.

There's no way he comes out of it with the nomination.

[comradebillyboy]

6. He wouldn't be the first prominent politician

to pretend to be a Democrat and probably not the last.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. They'd Accept Him

They'd claim he's just "owning the libs".
While we're on that subject, I'm a little surprised that T***p hasn't floated the notion that he never liked republicans and just ran for POTUS to expose them for what they are. " I didn't really believe in this stuff. Just wanted to shine a light on how crazy THEY are."
Seems like the kind of dodge he'd come up with.

[Cary]

9. Yes, me too.

Shining a light on crazy

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. I don't get "shining a light on crazy"

A conversation about a situation that would never happen doesn't "shine a light" on anything. Certainly not on anything "crazy"; you might say it shows how our own minds work as we extend the fiction. But, as you've seen, basically, people don't find the fiction interesting.

[Cary]

64. As.I said,.if you don't like it don't look at it

If you have a problem then you have a problem

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. That seems a nihilistic attitude to your own communication

If you explained what you meant, you might be able to start a conversation.

[Cary]

75. Some will, some won't, so what?

Next.

if you have a problem, then you have a problem.

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. He needs the Republican party to get the unthinking votes and financial support

He wouldn't say "I didn't really believe in this stuff. Just wanted to shine a light on how crazy THEY are", because then most of his money would stop. Sure, there are a few who support him because he hates the same people they do, and would be happy to do that outside the Republican party too, but most of them have a long history inside that party, and would resent him calling them crazy.

Calling them crazy would make him the centre of attention, but he wants more than that. He wants money and power. He also wants a defence against prosecution, and he needs major political support for that. He needs friends in high places.

[ProfessorGAC]

69. He Wants...

...
He doesn't know what he wants, Muriel.
He wasn't wielding power. He was just puking inflammatory rhetoric and was doing what he was told.
As to money, why does anybody here thinks he knows anything about making money?

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. In that case, you need to wonder why his controller (Putin? Someone else?) hasn't

told him to disown the Republican party. And you'll need to specify who the controller is (or are) for us to discuss it.

[ProfessorGAC]

74. Putting Words In My Mouth, Muriel

I didn't say he would do it. I said I'm surprised he hasn't come up with that dodge.
Sour graping the election loss, so to speak. "I didn't want to be president anyway."
But, I never said he would say it, nor did I suggest anyone would encourage him.
It was a simple surmise. Not sure how this started an argument.

[muriel_volestrangler]

76. But if you think he just does what he's told

then sour grapes on his part don't matter; he'll do what he's told.

Not so much an 'argument', more trying to get the suggestions consistent.

[Cary]

88. Occam' Razor

The "argument" started because one person's goal was to provoke the other.

smh

[Cary]

89. 100% agreement

He walked into this. He is a recent symptom of long standing pathology.

Read 'Reaganland." All of this pathology existed in 1979 and before. Lying may not have been as pervasive but there was plenty of Republican lying and smearing. I am now re-reading "Anti-Intellectualism in America." The same crap was.being perpetrated by McCarthy and others.

Conservatism has failed, ironically for the same reasons as the failure of the Soviet Union.

[Ocelot II]

10. If my aunt had wheels she'd be a pastry cart.

[Hoyt]

11. He'd get laughed at like David Duke.

[Autumn]

12. He was a Democrat before so I guess he would be accepted by some.

[Cary]

15. The question was what would the cult followers do?

I assume that none of us would accept him.

[Autumn]

24. They would accept him as a Democrat. They have no logic or even love for the Republicans.

They would consider him doing some kind of elevently million level chess.

[TheRealNorth]

13. The RW Media would turn on him

and that would be the end of it.

[Cary]

18. I have a hard time picturing that

[dweller]

14. Democratic Party

is not fascist, nor will it ever be, so no

✌🏻

[Cary]

16. Nor are we cult followers

Not sure how you misconstrued my question.

[dweller]

21. Don't think that I did

Fatnixon is a fascist, the Democratic Party would reject him
I don’t give a flying fuck what his cult followers do

✌🏻

[Cary]

22. You did

[dweller]

26. Did

not

✌🏻

[Cary]

40. Ok, so you answered these questions:

Would the Democratic Party accept the former guy?

Would we Democrats be fascist?

And then you conclude "so no."

But I never asked whether the Democratic Party would accept the former guy, never asked whether we Democrats would be fascist, and never asked a yes or no question.

[dweller]

44. Don't put your questions

in my mouth
More than I have rejected your premise as false
Go parry with them

✌🏻

[Cary]

47. It's my fault that you didn't understand my post

[zuul]

41. No one could stop him from stating that he's a Democrat.

The original question in the OP is what would the cult do. Of course all of us would reject him, but would that finally make the MAGAts turn on him.

[Cary]

90. Thank you for reading exactly what I wrote

[Budi]

17. I recall a few change to D just in time for 2016. And just again in 2021

😐

[róisín_dubh]

54. Jim Justice in WV did

Changed back to R in 2017 after he was elected.

[Budi]

61. Seems to be a pattern!

[48656c6c6f20]

23. If he did

The mindless faithful would abandon him and we could do whatever we wanted to him with no opposition. Carte motherfucking blanche to lock it away forever.

[brooklynite]

25. What is the point of ridiculous speculation like this?

[Cary]

35. If you don't like it,

don't look at it.

[zuul]

42. I think it's an interesting question.

I’ve asked myself what would it take for the cult to abandon him.

No doubt there will someday be another politician as corrupt and dishonest as T———. And no doubt he will have followers. I think we need to understand why this happens and how to stop it.

Hitler was supposed to have been charismatic and look at all the destruction he caused.

[Cary]

91. It's also facetious

How sick are they, regardless?

[Caliman73]

27. The mopes would likely continue to follow the doctrine and reject Trump.

It isn't difficult to conceive. The Poor Boys have already shown signs of rejecting him for "betraying" them.

Trump becoming a Democrat would just prove to them how deep the Deep State goes.

Leaders in conservatism / fascism are fungible. While Trump definitely maintains his cult of personality, most conservatives would dump him and latch on to the next demagogue who can muster the charisma and authoritarian appeal.


That said, Trump could switch parties but we Democrats would NEVER in a million years accept him as one. He knows that so he would never set himself up for that kind of total rejection.

[Jedi Guy]

32. "They got to him!"

"It was the vacciiiiiiiiiiiines, they reprogrammed him when he got the 5G upgrade! Oh noooooooooooooooooo..."

[Blue Owl]

30. Just don't see it happening

Donny isn't worshipped or treated like a god by educated people -- he will remain "the leader" for only the very dumbest among us...

[Jedi Guy]

31. That's actually a funny question, in my opinion.

Waaaaaay back in the Before Times (like the 80s and 90s), Trump did identify as a Democrat and rubbed elbows with the Clintons on a few occasions, as I recall. He also donated to Democratic candidates.

The only reason he flipped Republican was because he correctly identified them as easier to manipulate. Hell, I seem to recall reading a story which reported him saying as much. I'm paraphrasing, but as I remember, the article quoted him as saying basically, "If I were ever to run for President, I'd do it as a Republican because they'd fall for it."

And he was right, fall for it they did. They are, in fact, still falling for it. Trump has no core ideology insofar as politics is concerned. His core ideology, his overriding impulse, is to enrich himself at all costs, while also ensuring that he receives fawning adulation and ever-accumulating power. All else is secondary to that.

He is, for all intents and purposes, a stupid version of Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars. He doesn't want power to achieve a purpose; power is the purpose... and the money and luxuries that accompany it, naturally.

[Cary]

34. I have run into people like the former guy

They buy influence

[Hortensis]

48. Right. He is obviously somewhat conservative, but most of the

social-wars issues that have so many of his followers in flames require passion and attention he can't direct away from himself. I've always believed his only ideology is "me, I, my." And that he identified "Democrat" for a while because he grew up in NYC and a lot of the people he wanted to be accepted by did.

[Jedi Guy]

50. Yep, I'd say that's pretty much spot-on.

Aligning himself with the Democratic Party was little more than social camouflage over a total lack of any real core beliefs. He's pretty much an orange weathervane. Whatever alignment serves him best at that particular moment is the one he'll cling to, just to discard it when it's no longer convenient. He's an empty shell.

[Hortensis]

68. Yes. He also would have noticed from very young what public behaviors got

the most noisy approval and from whom. Talk about running as a Democrat now and then was just big talk. Since he lives for very positive feedback, he must have identified from the beginning the RW authoritarian types who thrilled to RW strongman rabblerousing, delivering the white populist and fascistic rhetoric they wanted.

LWers seeking a cult leader for adulation couldn't have impressed with their much smaller numbers and comparatively weak worst to bring out. And mainstream Democratic types don't do the adoring follower thing he craves. Not his people.

[Jedi Guy]

72. "And mainstream Democratic types don't do the adoring follower thing he craves."

Ehhhhhhh, I dunno. Some of the adulation showered on Obama was a little... over the top, shall we say? The folks who were banging on about him being a "Lightworker" (whatever that is) and such. Still, they were a pretty small minority, and it never developed into anything like the cult of personality that arose around Dolt 45.

[Hortensis]

77. :) Agree on some being over the top. Of course. Always.

Obama inevitably did draw some of the personality cultists and/or romantics looking for a great leader and cause to be part of, as well as others prone to extremism, but he ran on high ideals, not populist antagonisms. And he emphatically did not get the populists. He never asked Democrats to give him unconditional support for cruel and lawless actions the way Individual One did, or for antidemocratic electoral tactics the way both populist leaders did in 2016 and IndOne in 2020.

Interestingly, some of those most rabidly opposed to Hillary in 2016 were anti-Obama and PRO-Hillary in 2008 and 2012 (!), though, like Obama, she ran on very positive mainstream Democratic values and on a very big and sensible to-do list. A way to be against him, maybe, because the same sorts, eamined by pollsters, turned on her in 2016 in favor of the populist candidate(s). They swore they'd never vote for her, and didn't, and in 2020 again promised never to vote for any Democratic nominee but the leader of the LW populist movement.

And they're still at it, which brings us back to hypothesizing about what they'd do if Individual One ran on the Democratic ticket (we wouldn't let him!) in 2024. We do kinda know. A significant number voted for him in the 2016 GE, and probably 2020, though I didn't see numbers for that, and beyond doubt many of his RW followers would follow him to destroy the Democratic Party.

All worth thinking about because these bad-trouble people haven't gone anywhere. As you say, a pretty small minority, but it was enough in 2016.

[Cary]

80. He is a malignant narcissist

He will not become a Democrat.

That was neither my question nor my point.

There are people on DU who argue just to argue. Don't be one of those.

[Jedi Guy]

82. My point is that he WAS a Democrat at one time, or called himself a Democrat.

As I noted, he donated to Democratic candidates and rubbed elbows with Democratic Party luminaries. I don't believe for a moment that it was because he subscribed to the party's ideology, though. It was simply an imprimatur to get him access to people he wanted to associate with, in addition to social camouflage.

[Cary]

84. Yes I understood your point

My point is that people like him, the scum of the earth, do not use logic or reason and never operate in good faith.

It is a mistake to believe otherwise.

[Jedi Guy]

86. Trump has no core ideology, principles, or ethics, I think we can all agree on that.

He's the ultimate user and abuser, and he doesn't care who gets hurt or destroyed as long as he gets what he wants. He's one of those comparatively rare people who isn't just immoral, but is actually amoral.

[Cary]

87. He's a malignant narcissist

That is a real thing. There is a lot.of.overlap in that with sociopathy and psychopathy.

A lot has been written about this.

[Johonny]

36. It would destroy his cult of personality

and he'd be finished. Republicans would pop Champaign corks, though.

[mvd]

37. It wouldn't compute with them

In the end, these nuts would even find Trump a traitor to them.

[struggle4progress]

38. What if illegal aliens set up a moonbase and the Italians improved the Jewish space laser

and the illegal alien moonbase commandeered the space laser and melted down our border wall to turn it into new confederate statues? Has anybody thought about what we would do then?

[SharonClark]

46. LOL. I like how you think.

[Captain Stern]

39. Don't know what the mopes would do...better question....what would we do?

After all....can't talk bad about Democrats here.

I suspect membership would drop drastically.

[Progressive Jones]

43. I'd see to it that he's not a Democrat for very long. nt

[LakeArenal]

45. He used to be a fake Democrat.

The Clintons went to his wedding.
Ivanka and Chelsea were friends.

[Hortensis]

49. He'd fail MISERABLY. BUT, don't forget that he leads a RW populist

movement and that many people in the much smaller LW populist movement behaved like their RW counterparts. They cheered populist themes and blatant but pleasing lies from their leader and his surrogates, both movements wooed each others' followers, and some who started on the left moved to TRump in the GE.

Let's face it, the LW "lock her up" and other aggressively antagonistic, antidemocracy sorts would have supported TRump if he'd presented himself to them as their LW populist leader. Populists, like TRump himself, tend to be ideology-lite at best, as illustrated by ability to move from a class-warware populism to a fascistic populism. I believe he would have elbowed out any competition handily because he has a lot more of what populist types want and would have said all the things the LW versions wanted to hear.

We're not talking large numbers here, but they were and are real, and many are still infiltrated into our party (nothing to stop them if they choose), even if TRump is not.

So, yes. TRump might have behaved enough to make it onto our ballot in 2016 (less dangerous inside than out theory) and thus could have been Russia's LW spoiler in that election. And in these crazy times, when populist movements threaten to destroy our and many other nations, I wouldn't rule out 2024 theoretically just for discussion, though we know it wouldn't happen under our banner even if the nightmare of both LW and RW populists uniting behind TRump to take down our government were to.

[NurseJackie]

51. He's more likely to become an "I" instead.

I could see that.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

52. He'd never have my support.

If he was never a Republican, I'd still despise him because of his poor character and stupidity.

[Volaris]

53. That's what fox news will call him after hes found guilty lol.

Oh, he was never a really really real republican...he was an east coast New York elite rich liberal the whole time. A wolf in sheeps clothing. See, the dems will do whatever they can to destroy the republican party see how much they hate us?

Itll be how they keep the cult members in line.

[JI7]

55. They like him as long as he is a racist asshole

[UCmeNdc]

56. Trump would not get elected as a Democratic candidate. Not enough support.

[treestar]

57. They would be Democrats then

Though not enough to get Dump the nomination.

[Cary]

58. I re-read my post a few times

It is straight forward and in plain English.

Why have so many misconstrued it? WTF?

[Doc Sportello]

92. I think it's the thought experiment thing

Some people just don't get it, or they do in some respect but are very literal and don't want to take part in an exercise like that. Others may be offended at the thought of it, which is silly. I think it's an interesting question. My guess is the majority of dump's supporters would be turned off, or even more confused than they already are and leave politics. We can only hope that happens when he leaves this earth.

[Wounded Bear]

59. Regardless of labels, Trump will always be Trump...

he won't get elected to anything as a Dem, though.

[Mad_Machine76]

60. That might literally be the ONLY thing that he could do

that would lose him followers. But I would hope that the Democratic Party would take great pains to disavow him and his followers because we certainly do NOT need him- or them.

[Cary]

62. Agreed

[blogslug]

65. Not going to happen

He was a democrat of convenience once but discovered his "base" was in the republican party so he switched. He'll never change to Democrat, he has no base in our party.

[whistler162]

71. He can vote for whomever he wants

running for office is another story!

[MissMillie]

73. He'll always be what he is now--an "opportunist"

and a con man.

[demtenjeep]

78. he would get 0 votes from anyone

he is pathetic

[Cary]

79. So there is a limit to what his cult followers will tolerate from him?

Treason?

No problem.

Incessant lying?

No problem.

600,000 Americans dead due to his recklessness? Self dealing? Obstruction of justice? Inciting an insurrection? Corrupting the DOJ?...

No problem. But changing his affiliation from R to D would be a deal breaker?

smh

[fescuerescue]

81. We would have to change the rules here.

[Kaleva]

83. They'd say he's MasterMind infiltrating our camp in order to destroy us.

[Cary]

85. I think that's true

Or they would concoct similar mishugash to avoid admitting anything true.

Thank you for understanding my point. I am amazed at how petty and nasty people here can be, for no real reason.