Up until now, for the most part, GOP stole elections by voter obstruction, gerrymandering.

[Eliot Rosewater]

Flipping votes didnt happen (Yes, I said it did and I was wrong) and fixing voting machines probably also didnt happen.

None of this matters, however, in red states now, because if the GOP loses the election they will simply say there was fraud and they will begin the end of Democracy in America and someone please tell me WHAT in the FUCK can we do to stop it?

Cuz I cant thing of a god damn thing.

Well, if I had a time machine we could all go back 5 years and people on the left could NOT trash Hillary all day everyday, THAT would have avoided most of this. But I dont have it this week, my ex-wife has it and she is not speaking to me right now because I took the grilled cheese machine she wanted when we split up.





Imagine how many people either did not vote at all or voted but not for Prez or voted 3rd party because every time they correctly heard someone describe trump as a complete idiot and prick, someone chimed in with anyone of the following:

"Well Hillary isnt much better"

"Hillary is a terrible candidate but I will HOLD MY NOSE and vote for her."

[WarGamer]

1. She's probably the single most qualified person ever to run for POTUS...

It's a travesty that she didn't win. Bill is still my #1 POTUS of my lifetime. The 90's were the BEST decade ever.

[RKP5637]

2. Yes and Yes!!!

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. I know progs who TO THIS DAY bash Hillary while applauding President Biden

when they cant tell me a SINGLE thing the two would have done differently where Joe would have been more progressive than she would have been.

I hope the way I mangled that statement makes sense.

The 25 year long propaganda machine BASHING her worked on more than we realized.

And the worst part the WORST PART is being on a youtube chat of a progressive talker and the VERY moderators who relentlessly TRASHED her in 2016 acting like they have no idea what I am talking about as in their participation.

F U C K

[-misanthroptimist]

4. I can tell you one big thing that would be different.

Joe would do things and say things in a way that people found less irritating, and even likeable. And that's what it gets down to for a lot of people -the old "beer test." It's not smart; it's not right; and it's certainly not good for the country. However, it's the way a lot of people think.

It should also always be remembered that Clinton won with the voters.

[pnwmom]

7. That that's because in general smart, capable men are ALWAYS considered more likable

than smart, capable women.

The exact same behaviors that are considered admirable in a man, are irritating when a woman displays them.

[SunSeeker]

8. Yup.

[DFW]

13. In general, maybe

Here in Germany, Angela Merkel turned that one upside down. Unimpressed by theatrics, owing nothing to anyone, she guided Germany through the years of Cheney, Obama and Trump with a steady hand, making the best of an EU hampered by incompetent (e.g. Hollande) to downright evil (e.g. Orban) fellow heads of state, as well as serious regional situations she was saddled with, such as Greece, Brexit and the refugees. None of the candidates seeking to succeed her, from ANY party, including her own, promise anywhere near such competent leadership.

[pnwmom]

14. I'm talking about in the US. Yes, Angela Merkel and Mary Robinson of Ireland

are examples of female European leaders who have not faced the Hillary treatment.

[ymetca]

5. It goes all the way back

to when HRC was advocating for the public option when her husband was President. The medical industrial complex has spent billions attempting to destroy her ever since. She was a threat to their gravy train.

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. And this was her CARDINAL sin

https://www.popsugar.com/news/Hillary-Clinton-Baking-Cookies-Comment-42252587

[NBachers]

6. I'd head back to Al Gore and Ralph Nader.

[ymetca]

12. Yeah, and Bush V. Gore

and the "Brooks Brothers riot", hanging chads and that fatal mess of an election.

But really, I'm thinking now maybe Nixon. When Cheney self-selected himself as VP for Bush the Dumber, I said to myself "we just can't get rid of these Nixonites".

Along comes Trump and it's more "Nixonites" again --Stone, Barr, etc., ad nauseum.

Like they just keep "roiling in the deep" of Cthulhu's Madness, waiting to return all the time.

[Hortensis]

9. There are more of us than them. What we can do is GOTV.

I've never forgiven the "I just don't like Hillary people" looking for an excuse not to vote Democratic or for a woman, whatever's going on in their heads, but this isn't the time to give up on helping them not shoot themselves in the head. Just needs to be long enough for them to finish filling out and mailing their ballot.

[Metaphorical]

10. Hillary would have been a good president, but

she has always been an indifferent campaigner, and her 2016 presidential campaign, in particular, was one marred by missteps that the GOP was waiting to pounce on. I think I realized she was going to lose when she brought out her Basket of Deplorables comment because it easily alienated far more people who were already unhappy with how things had turned out with Sanders. She turned the race from "I am the best candidate for president because I will represent all of you" to "I am the leader of Blue America".

It didn't help that the DNC, and particularly Wasserman, were remarkably tone-deaf in that campaign. The messaging came across as a coronation, not an election, and even as a Clinton supporter, I found that off-putting. Additionally, the run-up to the election, and the mud being slung by the Republicans, was admittedly brutal, but the fact that much of it was reflected by the Sanders team didn't help, and to me was a red flag for the campaign. At the same time, Clinton's pick of Tim Kaine as running mate did nothing positive for the ticket - he was a relative unknown, and if anything only served to cement Clinton as a centrist at a time when it was fairly obvious that Democratic voters were willing to take a chance on a more progressive ticket.

I had prayed that Clinton would win, because there was no question that Trump would end up being a disaster of a president (he was), but let's not whitewash 2016 either. The election was hers to lose, and she lost it. Biden won in part because he realized that the only way to win against an incumbent president, was to reach out to everyone, to present himself as the anti-Trump, and to capitalize on the fact that while in 2016, Trump had no real political record, by 2020 he did, and it was abysmal.