Does anyone face criminal liability for the Surfside collapse?

[SoonerPride]

With numerous engineers noting issues with the building and after years of neglect and stalling, the owners had finally begun to address the issues with the failing building.

Will they face criminal negligent homicide charges?

What do you predict?

[hlthe2b]

1. Depends on the results of the investigation. If this was China, heads would (literally) roll.

Here, more likely major civil liability unless fraud/intentional negligence can be proven.

[rurallib]

4. Wasn't there a beheading shortly after an apartment building collapsed

in Shanghai? Within a week or two?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. The thing is, with condominiums ... the owners of the condos are also the owners of the building

Ergo, many if not most of the deceased ... are the very owners you're referring to.

You might see the families of the some of the renters (or perhaps even owners) going after the Condo Owners Association (or its insurance company) though, that wouldn't be surprising.

Doubt there will be any criminal liability though.

[C_U_L8R]

3. If anything, the insurance companies will look for someone to blame.

Especially if it's the condo board.

[NutmegYankee]

5. It is rare for criminal charges in these cases.

Usually it results in civil liabilities and pulling of professional licenses.

[Hekate]

6. Condos have Homeowners' Boards to whom this report should have gone. They are responsible ...

…for due diligence, and there should be records of every meeting and every financial decision, especially ones regarding deferred maintenance on a very very expensive repair project, which this would have been.

The Board members who are still alive may very soon be sorry that they are. Hope that’s not too harsh.

[dumbcat]

8. That's also what I was thinking ...

But consider this scenario:

The CEO or Manager or whatever he is called that manages the Building Owner's Board get the report in 2018 that there are serious structural issues in the building possibly leading to failure. The manager/CEO calls a board meeting (the owners of the condos in the building) and recommends that they all evacuate and move out of their homes until further notice that it is safe, and says they need to assess each owner approx. $100K each to begin the repairs needed to the structure. It remains to be seen how long it will take or what the ultimate assessment to each condo owner will be. That's what the manager needs to do to limit his liability.

What do you think the condo board members (and all the condo owners) will do? (Remember, this is back in 2018, and based on a report from some engineers.)

[Sgent]

22. Most buildings like this

don't have a CEO. They have the President of the board, but he cannot act alone. They also have a management company who deals with all the day to day stuff (hires gardeners / supers, maintains common areas, etc.), but they have no authority to spend except what the board gives them.

Your right though, if I was on our condo board the only thing I could do is call for an emergency meeting (instead of annual), go over the engineering findings / cost, and let the owners decide. Once I call that meeting, everyone's home value drops by 100k+ until the work is finished.

[dumbcat]

25. I read something this morning about repairs costing about $9 mil

I've never lived in or been around a condo, but I assume that the condo board would have had to agree to assess themselves that much to do the repairs? Is it assessed equally, or by assessed value of the condo? Do condo owners typically do that? I would imagine there would always be arguments about it.

[Politicub]

27. The association would vote on a special assessment, if there was not

enough money in reserves. The board is not free to do anything it wants.

The fees in this building were low for its age. I can’t imagine there was enough reserved for $10m in repairs on top of running the building.

The board is made of people from the HOA. It is not separate from it, and can’t make unilateral decisions about costs above a certain amount.

[Hoyt]

7. Suspect it's too late to go after developers. Condo Board maybe, but they

would be representing, and are, owners. So criminal charges seem unlikely. I did read some family has already sued the association.

I may end up living in a condo someday against my will, but associations and those who can’t/won’t pay up for repairs are a pain.

[dumbcat]

9. I can't even imagine living in a condo building like that

I'm in a neighborhood of minimum 1 acre lots, and I still feel crowded sometimes. I guess I am just a country boy at heart.

[Skittles]

11. seems like people will put up with a lot for a view of the ocean

[Generic Brad]

17. I used to live in a building larger than that

And when I retire, I will probably do so again. Large buildings rarely collapse, the views are great, and they afford the privacy I appreciate. If this happened routinely, it would not be news.

[Hoyt]

18. I agree on view, safety, etc. But depending on a bunch of people on Board

to do the right thing for all residents, is not what I want. My luck, I’d end up with a Board of trumpsters.

[Generic Brad]

20. I sit on my condo board right now

There are fewer than 50 buildings in our complex and 7 buildings. All we talk about is lawn care, repairs, and garbage pick up. No politics are discussed. I’m sure some of them are Trump supporters, but none of us go there.

[Hoyt]

21. I'm speaking of internal politics. Some have their favorite landscape

contractors, some want things done that are favorable to some and not others, some don’t want to do needed repairs and upgrades, others do, some do costly enhancements that benefit themselves more than other owners, some are just A-holes (like trump), . . . . .

[Generic Brad]

23. I've lived in a place managed like that

I avoided that board like the plague. No doubt they are plentiful.

[USALiberal]

24. Well you realize millions of people do have to? Nt

[Klaralven]

15. A relative got on a condo board. First thing I asked was did they have officer's liability insurance

[Bev54]

10. I think it is a bit early for that, can we try and get everyone out first.

[Skittles]

12. there are other buildings nearby

finding the cause must start immediately

[Bev54]

13. That may be but it is not the time to be talking about

criminal liability.

[Skittles]

19. I disagree

[dumbcat]

16. I think the city building oficials and the condo boards ...

... of similar buildings in the area with any signs of structural weaknesses should order a precautionary evacuation of all similar buildings, if only to avoid future civil or criminal liability.

[Klaralven]

14. The recovery should start in a couple days

There won't be any survivors.

Those that weren't crushed or injured fatally in the collapse, have certainly succumbed to the toxic fumes of burning diesel oil or the water that the fire department is using to put it out.

[TraceNC]

26. Way too early to tell.

But yes, this is likely to get ugly on a legal level.