General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo fair to James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and Franklin Pierce.
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overallOur modern historians need to improve their understanding of worst. Afterall, Buchanan inherited the divisions; he didn't create them.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,129 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)And why Trump isn't last. W is a little too high on the list as well.
wryter2000
(46,037 posts)Maybe it's because he was very successful at what he did, as horrible as it was.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I should think a good president would be one who made the nation a better place to live for the most people. But maybe I'm just naive that way.
moondust
(19,972 posts)Ronnie unbridled it so wealthy whites could practice predatory capitalism.
dsc
(52,155 posts)and only ding him to middle of the pack on equality.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)That's a stretch. And how they didn't place Trump dead last is a mystery as well. There was not one thing that he made better for the masses.
I kind of get the feeling, regarding both Reagan's and Trump's placement, that those doing the judging place cutting taxes for the wealthy very high on the scale of "contributing to society".
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)At that point I would expect (if I'm still around) that they will have revised their opinions and placed TFG where he really belongs. My own evaluation is here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213193898
wryter2000
(46,037 posts)The Republican onslaught against truth and decency started a long, long time ago with Reagan (actually, you can go all the way back to George Wallace). It metastasized with the Tea Party. OTOH, did the others let 600,000 Americas die because they just didn't give a F?
roamer65
(36,745 posts)But he exploited them for personal gain and profit.
Far worse than any other other president, hands down.
Raygun started the divisive bullshit in 1980.
Other parts of this are an empire in its death convulsions.
Was horrible. I always hated him back to when he was Governor of California. Forty years of his bullshit has decimated our middle class and our manufacturing.
wryter2000
(46,037 posts)He was a horrible governor and worse president.
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)Eisenhower rates above Jefferson?
JFK rates above LBJ & BHO? He was inspirational for the time, but he was only president for 33 months.
Reagan is top 10? He ran up the debt by a higher fraction above existing than any postwar POTUS.
McKinley rates above Madison? He was only POTUS for 42 months!
A bit odd.
NNadir
(33,512 posts)...the worst Democratic President of the 20th century, tied with the racist Woodrow Wilson on that score.
JFK nearly blew the entire planet up, and I believe if you look into the matter, his cold warrior mentality, his unfortunate dalliances playing a role in his lack of preparation for the Vienna Summit which led Khrushchev to evaluate him as a lightweight, you will find that he had a lot to do with creating the crisis. That he addressed it is one thing, but prevention is better than cure.
Johnson had Vietnam, but his record on equality and domestic policy should certainly put him over that Senile racist bastard Reagan.
I don't get Reagan either.
The thing that I do agree with is the trend of increasing the stature of President Grant. I regard him as the most essential President of the 19th century after Lincoln, and his rise in historical reputation is still short of what it should be, but it's much improved.
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)The scandals which were happening 2,000 miles away (50 years before mass communication), and his "drunk" & "butcher" tags from the war (both wrong and one each started by each side) hung on him for a century.
Undeserved.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)He simply choose to exploit them to what he believed was his own benefit.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)Is Rump the only one to attempt a coup?
If so, then LAST! Worst! Etc.
Freddie
(9,259 posts)The James Buchanan Homestead and Museum in Lancaster is a worthwhile day trip. Lots of interesting history and his family keeps the original furniture etc in good working order. Considering he lived with lots of family and servants the house really isnt all that big. Now home of the 2nd Worst President Ever!
hedda_foil
(16,372 posts)Was there anyone even halfway decent between the framers and Lincoln or between Grant and TR? And that's before every damn Republican president after WWI except Eisenhower.
Response to hedda_foil (Reply #18)
StevieM This message was self-deleted by its author.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Ever since Hillary lost a ridiculously rigged election, the media has decided that they can, and always will, pile on the Clintons. So we have to pretend that he was only an OK president.
With regards to your comments below, I would argue that JFK should get better rankings in world history than in American history. JFK was largely responsible for putting a man on the moon. That was a significant event in the history of humanity.
NNadir
(33,512 posts)He certainly was a much better President than Woodrow Wilson and ridiculous to rate him lower than Polk in my view.
As for Kennedy and the Space program, I believe that his "challenge" was a part of his cold warrior mentality, stick it to the Ruskies, coupled with a certain "frat boy" entitlement, a kind of off the cuff poorly considered promise made without input from the people who would actually have to execute the program. He was very much Joe Kennedy's son - Kennedy Sr. informed anyone who asked that his son was no liberal - and Joe Kennedy Sr. was at the end of the day, not a good guy. Beschloss wrote a wonderful book on the subject of the relationship between the Roosevelts and the Kennedys, and it's not flattering to the Kennedys.
John F. Kennedy didn't really consult with engineers when he made this cold warriors challenge to put men on the moon, and I've read and heard that most engineers were at a loss to think of how it might be done.
That they actually did it is a credit to them, the engineers and scientists, and not to Kennedy, but the reality is that the it is true that the US Space program did allow for the development of many critical technologies, small portable computers among many others, and many advances in the area of Material Science. In that sense, I'm glad he issued the challenge, but I think it more luck than insight.
Now we did have a very, very, strong scientific infrastructure at the time, including, in the missile/rocket area, along with captured senior scientists from the Nazi "National Lab" at Peenemunde - all of whom were "liberated" to "help" in the "struggle" with the Soviets - teams of very talented native aerospace engineers. (I have read, that the US intelligence community was thrilled during the Eisenhower administration that Soviets launched Sputnik, since it set an international legal basis for spacecraft to overfly foreign countries.)
So Kennedy's promise was fulfilled because of the infrastructure was there and not as a result of any real input, or understanding of the nature of the task, from him.
For me, any positives from Kennedy, (who by the way watched the March on Washington down the block on the TV set, wondering if it would effect his chances for reelection), including, if he really was responsible for it, the moon shot, are outweighed by the fact that he very nearly stumbled into a nuclear war. I was a child at the time, and I remember thinking I was going to die in the afternoon. The psychological impact of that event led my generation to make some poor decisions that to me, with my particular focus, had serious implications for the future. I consider that we might not have had people dropping dead from heat stroke in Vancouver yesterday if there had been enough sobriety at the top to have prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis.
I believe if he'd lived, Kennedy would rank much lower than he does in these surveys. He was not, really, a serious man, and to the extent that Bill Clinton was inspired by him, it may have been in one Kennedy's worst personality traits, not his best.
Overall Clinton was a much better, much more intelligent, and much more serious man than Kennedy could have ever hoped to have been. He should rate higher than Kennedy, and certainly higher than Reagan. I recently attended (virtually) a brief talk by Clinton on the viability of Democracy at Cornell and I was struck with a deeper respect for him than ever, his inability to manage his zipper for the benefit of the country notwithstanding. I think Obama was a better President than Clinton, but that Clinton was far superior to the likes of Reagan, McKinley, Madison, J.Q. Adams, and Monroe. The claim to the contrary is somewhat absurd.
In any case, they didn't ask for my input for preparing this ranking list. If they had, Buchanan would have been spared the bottom. I'm sure that Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz disagree with it far more than I do overall.