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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOh my!!! If this is true about suit against trump there must be a god!!!
Link to tweet
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Link to tweet
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SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)soldierant
(6,857 posts)because it would really help this petition succeed:
https://freespeechforpeople.org/amendment-14-section-3-petition/
Bu t I have no idea how valid a compaint it is.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)I don't know why the MSM is not making a bigger deal that this. 7000 Americans died because of the previous Republican war criminals with an unnecessary, illegal invasion of Iraq. The number here doesn't even compare.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/lancet-study-40-percent-u-s-covid-19-coronavirus-deaths-avoidable-unnecessary.html
Lancet Study Finds 40 Percent of U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Could Have Been Avoided
The British medical journal the Lancet, on Wednesday, published a damning assessment of Donald Trumps presidency and its impact on Americans health, concluding that 40 percent of the nearly 500,000 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. over the past year were avoidable.
And that was written when the death toll was "only" 500,000. Now its over 600,000. So what's 40% of 600,000? About 250,000? Mothers, Fathers, Sons, Daughters....so many avoidable deaths. 250,000
I think there should be a class action suit from all the folks that can claim that a family member, or friend died because they followed their dear President's example.
soldierant
(6,857 posts)it's next to impossible to get most people, and especially Republicans, to internalize that a sin (or a crime) of omission is a real sin (or crime) with real consequences for which someone is really personally responsible.
If they were ablt to internalize that, they'd have to look at a lot of things they really, really don't want to look at. Like, but not limited to, racism.
Treefrog
(4,170 posts)RANDYWILDMAN
(2,672 posts)I don't see this getting much traction, too much space between him and the decisions he made.
Granted he pretty much killed tons of people with his stupid decisions...Blame the voters of 2016
Escurumbele
(3,392 posts)I guess I don't understand what you mean by "too much space between him and the decisions he made.", how can there be too much space between the decisions that a person makes and the person? The own the decisions.
If the decisions are by him, they are very close to him.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Statement that he didn't want people to panic? Strikes me that if you weighed people panicking and maybe not going to work? Or fighting for food in the grocery store? Against 140,000 people dying? The scales would certainly tip toward the massive death. And that's not counting the continuation of rallies and mocking mask wearing. Maybe the mocking of mask wearing and calling it a hoax is what he should be sued for?
stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 30, 2021, 11:51 PM - Edit history (1)
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Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)"we'd all have a very merry Christmas!"
The whole premise is a wild flight of fancy. I hope you've enjoyed your evening.
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Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)RANDYWILDMAN
(2,672 posts)and just like Nixon he knows how to create space between himself and the crime
Gordon Liddy went to Jail Nixon didn't, even though Nixon ordered the crime.
Michael Cohen went to jail Trump didn't , even though Trump ordered the crime.
People who can be between Trump and this decision are Birx and Atlas
I am not saying Trump doesn't own the deaths, he does, but he has enough insulation to keep any of this from sticking to just him
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)RANDYWILDMAN
(2,672 posts)if he had not been so quick to deny the masks and had just worn one and told everybody to wear one, more people would be alive and he would still be in the white house.
jmbar2
(4,886 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Sorry, I'm a pessimist.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)The case was refiled? Or different?
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)I think it depends on how you count. There's a bunch of names in the complaint, and a bunch of names in the March "letter" to the court.
Far be it from me to argue with some tweet.
But we are talking about the same case:
Link to tweet
That's the lead plaintiff - Arnett Thomas - a convicted kidnapper and murderer who spent decades in prison.
Filing lawsuits becomes a hobby for some people in jail, and they file some doozies.
mahina
(17,652 posts)You lose?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)That this is really true and will really get major traction. If you lost somebody it feels like some small sense of retribution
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)KS Toronado
(17,232 posts)The bright side is it'll point lawyers into a direction that would be more favorable to finding him guilty in the
next & next & next lawsuits. Just hope this paints him and all reQublican congressmen as being unable or
unwilling to lead this country during a crisis.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Ya think, man?
Even Charlie Brown's telling you to look at things a little more half-full.
OverBurn
(950 posts)There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist, except an old optimist.
-Mark Twain
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)The man who is a pessimist before 48 knows too much; if he is an optimist after it he knows too little.
Mark Twain
OverBurn
(950 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Caliman73
(11,738 posts)I have no legal training so my opinion is worth as much as the paper it is printed on...
Anyone can file a law suit but there is no way that a court will decide in favor of the plaintiffs. That is like saying that we can sue LBJ for getting us into Vietnam by lying about the GoT incident and killing 58,000 Americans.
It is completely understandable and it is Trump's fault through incompetence and malfeasance, but proving that in a court of law, I think, would be a long shot.
certainot
(9,090 posts)the pandemic to get worse if the right people are asked the right questions. are there witnesses that heard trump tell limbaugh to keep calling it a hoax, for instance.
it goes back to republicans/limbaugh weaponizing the 2014 ebola scare as an october surprise to turn 9 senate seats. he actually attacked obama at the time for letting immigrants in, with ebola. when he was getting intel briefings did he ask for worst case scenarios and how it might help him call for emergency powers, delay elections, etc. how was he relating COVID with all the post office shenanigans? after he nearly died and got cured with the special sauce how can he justify continuing to say its no big deal?
imo the evidence is there if the investigators assume the worst. and of course hes capable. life is a game of golf to him. one hole after another. he has no imagination or empathy, he just visualizes a goal and goes for it.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)which misquoted with trump acting "unwillingly." It is purported that it was the public who were unwilling participants in trump's goal to strive for herd immunity.
It's a very interesting claim I hadn't really thought about. That once trump knew the virus was deadly and airborne, he chose two options...get a vaccine quickly and encourage/hope for herd immunity. The latter makes sense. What better way to strive for herd immunity than to do everything you could to ensure people got it versus didn't get it. Keep holding mass super spreader rallies. Mock those who wore masks. Don't wear a mask yourself. Call it a hoax.
As many have pointed out this case may not go anywhere. Despite this, it's underlying rationale for his actions actually make sense.
What he absolutely did not chose was to protect the public. Guess he must have thrown this idea out. Because it would hurt the economy which is a reflection on him and his ego?
certainot
(9,090 posts)millions of poor and brown people around the world who couldn't afford the vaccines and meds the trump org had a piece of. in the meantime the emergency would help him push through all sorts of fascism
herd immunity without heavy use of vaccines means a lot of death and misery but the right wing was selling it on cue. i'll bet when trump heard herd immunity could eventually end it without killing billons he was really disappointed.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)was WAY more nefarious than I had even imagined.
I could never understand how he could have said he didn't want to alarm the public that the virus was airborne and deadly and then go on to undermine it all. No masks, hoax, super-spreader events. Made zero sense.
But then this supposed schmuck files a class action and now I actually think the rationale makes the most sense! He opted to strive for herd immunity and rush the vaccine. And he even put the lives of his followers into it.
And then the lives of blue state citizens along with any of his followers that live there.
And then like you said...the lives of people around the world who couldn't afford a vaccine. Just like our brains automatically go to how we can help people. His brain automatically goes to how can we lower "their" vote and erase poor minorities from the world.
This man is the worst human being on earth. Mismanagement of covid response? only the tip of it. Too bad people questioned his china ban. If it wasn't for that, we might have been more on top of this travesty.
And, except for losing the election, he got away with it.
certainot
(9,090 posts)as the solution. that writer could have been a kremlin tool.
meanwhile the experts were pointing out ignoring it for herd immunity without vaccines and effective treatments could kill countless millions, not to mention the long term effects. that would be much more attractive to FG than all the complications and uncertainty and detail involved in actually thinking about trying to reduce the casualties, not to mention the moneymaking and authoritarian opportunities.
there are probably witnesses to some of those conversations, such as those between limbaugh and FG where FG wants limbaugh to call it a hoax, then sell herd immunity, politicize mask wearing, etc.
there's a lot to investigate and dems and media need to assume the worst from trump and get over calling it incompetence, etc - he is clearly capable. and also the russian angle - talk radio is big both in brazil and india, for instance. were the rw radio stations there using the same talking points and memes?
every advertiser, university, and pro sports team using rw radio shares responsibility and they have no excuse not to look for apolitical alternatives.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)yet, been meaning to. But do you think the claim that Democrats may have (rightly so) questioned the FG about his China ban, made the entire subject one to avoid?
Have to say one thing, there is an unnamed source that worked with Jared on the covid committee that claims he absolutely knew what he was doing when they transferred covid response from the feds to the states. Wonder who it is?
certainot
(9,090 posts)that ramped up so now we have an asian racism problem. blame the disaster on china instead of russia and GOP and trump pushing 1500 radio stations licensed to operate in the public interest to tell millions every day that it'ss a hoax, or overblown, or masks are for democrat sissies.
it makes a difference in prevention and science to know where it came from but blaming china for trumps's pandemicidal inaction is just sex on the wrong brain authoritarian bullshit
as long as dems allow 1500 radio stations to dominate messaging in the US it really doesn't matter what dems do or say unless they get 'lucky' with some major accident or tragedy or other event rw radio can't spin immediately
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)And it's so much more than just RW opinion. It's orchestrated brainwashing with alternative "facts" . I know two wing nuts who were brainwashed early on to believe that CNN is all fake news. They have even blocked the channel on their TVs. I think this is an important piece to making it all work. Never hearing anything different than what they are trying to espouse.
And some of this bleeds out too. When we have no effective means to reach large audiences to correct the record. Until this moment I even thought Harris or Biden may have said early on that the covid travel ban was xenophobic. Where that was twisted from:
Link to tweet
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Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Yeah....
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59679150/thomas-v-trump/
Off to a rousing start:
Feb 24, 2021
CLERK'S QUALITY CONTROL MESSAGE - The 1 Complaint Received submitted by ARNETT L. THOMAS on 2/19/2021 does not contain a signature. Please submit a signed copy of the Complaint to our Office as soon as soon as possible. (bt, )
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Incidentally, it was filed back in February and the plaintiff has not even requested a summons, let alone served the suit. Plaintiff didn't even respond to the clerk's request for a signed copy of the complaint.
Someone just found this turd sitting there, going nowhere for months, and decided they wanted some Twitter love.
It will get tossed off of the docket when the court gets around to it, since it is already well overdue for dismissal for non-prosecution.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Ty for info, Effete.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Think should modify because a whole shitload of good people died because of this asshole
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Tell me about the people who died because of him.
The tweet is touting a pro se "class action" filed by a murderer back in February, which is already over the time limit for service or any other sign of moving forward under the federal rules.
The tweet is an irresponsible piece of clickbait based on a piece of months-old junk that is typical of pro se prison litigators, and is a disservice to people who take it at face value. It is irresponsible and abusive of the trust of the large number of followers that account has.
Anyway, I researched the tweets, found the original source materials, and provided them here so that anyone who found the tweet interesting would have access to the complete facts on which the tweets were based.
Along the way I found it disappointing that someone with that many Twitter followers would be so abusive of their trust and not provide complete factual information. That's offensive to me.
stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)yonder
(9,665 posts)Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)not the least of which is that there are some very specific requirements for maintaining a class action, and they are not easy to meet. Most attempted class actions are not certified. This one won't be either.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)... whether or not DOJ can be made defend him.
This is going to get bad before it gets good but this is ... MUCH MUCH ... needed
Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)It's a lame attempt by a pro se litigant and it won't meet the requirements for certifying it as a class.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/04/nj-man-who-spent-decades-in-prison-sues-donald-trump-over-criminal-handling-of-covid-outbreak.html
N.J. man who spent decades in prison sues Donald Trump over criminal handling of COVID outbreak
Thomas says the 29-page lawsuit was the result of years of paralegal classes he took in state prisons, where found himself as a repeat offender for decades, he said.
I was in prison for 21 years and I have 21 years out, Thomas said. My worst day out here is better than my best day in prison.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)It will go nowhere.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/04/nj-man-who-spent-decades-in-prison-sues-donald-trump-over-criminal-handling-of-covid-outbreak.html
N.J. man who spent decades in prison sues Donald Trump over criminal handling of COVID outbreak
Thomas says the 29-page lawsuit was the result of years of paralegal classes he took in state prisons, where found himself as a repeat offender for decades, he said.
I was in prison for 21 years and I have 21 years out, Thomas said. My worst day out here is better than my best day in prison.
ShazzieB
(16,394 posts)Wonderful.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)I doubt the orange fascist will be either
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)doc03
(35,334 posts)magicarpet
(14,150 posts)A very diverse and mixed crowd we got here.
George II
(67,782 posts)rickyhall
(4,889 posts)msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)so many lawsuits with so much more evidence than what this tweet seems to promise, like the poster above said: too much much space between threat and evidence.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)During his interview with Woodward is what I would base a case on. It's irrefutable. He said he chose not to warn anyone when he knew it was airborne and deadly. People died early on because they weren't warned. I read somewhere that people attributed 140,000 lives to him for this period.
If someone can do this without any type of punishment at all then something is seriously wrong with our legal system duh
msfiddlestix
(7,282 posts)especially wrt to organized crime, headed by and at the behest of a crime boss-real estate mogul, installed as President of the United States and allowed to continue with his criminal enterprises with absolutely no legal consequences whatsoever, never mind political.
and this is beyond heartbreaking, imo.
malaise
(268,993 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)brooklynite
(94,547 posts)WarGamer
(12,440 posts)UnderThisLaw
(318 posts)Trumps lawyers dont expect to get paid either.
WarGamer
(12,440 posts)Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)Lawsuits filed pro se are usually hopeless because if they had any real merit a real lawyer would have taken them on (sometimes even real lawyers file stupid lawsuits, as we have seen; but they get shot down fast, too). Class action suits are especially difficult and require much more work (and jumping through legal hoops) than regular lawsuits, which is why they are almost always filed by large law firms with vast resources - they can be lucrative for the lawyers, but a pro se plaintiff is doomed from the start.
WarGamer
(12,440 posts)For people missing work Monday morning after Game of Thrones episodes...
And I appreciate the Lawyer angle! Thanks
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Are you seriously suggesting that the "Fired TX Lawyer" is not going to get the WDTX to order up a new presidential election?
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59673930/bravo-v-pelosi/
UnderThisLaw
(318 posts)But its hilarious the reaction its causing in all the usual suspects
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)way to heal. I am sure hundreds of thousands may feel the same way
UnderThisLaw
(318 posts)Referring to people who seem offended that this lawsuit was even filed
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)" there's nothing in this world I'd rather see than for him to be held accountable for his horrendous actions but..."
Same thing happened before impeachment#1,. It was never a point by point pros and cons of doing it. Nor was it ever prefaced with wanting to hold him accountable. Just NO
iemanja
(53,032 posts)from liability due to official actions as president. This lawsuit won't succeed.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)iemanja
(53,032 posts)Virtually all of them. Who has been subject to civil suit? Not one. When was LBJ successfully sued? Reagan? Bush? Never. This is the kind of feel good thing that excites some and goes no where. The whole thing is absurd. The courts have been clear about this. Indulge your day dreams if you want. It's going no where.
This is Fitzmas all over again.
The possibilities for Trump paying for his actions are in New York state. And even there they are pulling their punches. Presidents literally get away with murder and have countless times in US history. There is a reason the US is not a signatory to the Hague.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)piece on civil and criminal charges for Covid.
It's interesting how they talk about getting kushner for his actions
https://theconversation.com/prosecute-donald-trump-for-coronavirus-crimes-no-but-maybe-jared-kushner-146510
He did deliver a cache of N-95 masks to New York City. Yet Kushners outside-the-box thinking also brought a sudden shift in pandemic responsibilities from the national government to the various states. The task force also seems to have nixed its own plan for nationwide testing.
These decisions were objectively disastrous. Unable to draw on federal resources, states competed with one another for equipment. Testing lagged for crucial weeks, resulting in more infections and dead Americans.
At the time of these events, Kushner and some other members of the task force among them a Morgan Stanley executive and a Silicon Valley billionaire were not elected officials. They were private citizens who, despite having no public health expertise, had assumed a specific responsibility to protect American citizens from the pandemic. They failed to do so.
According to a health official who worked closely with Kushners team, this failure was deliberate
More at link
onecaliberal
(32,856 posts)The number one responsibility of the President is to provide for the safety of the American people. Trump LIED repeatedly. Not only was he willfully negligent, it was wreckless. The result more than 800,000 dead people. So much pain, so much injustice for us little people. A fucking ridiculous thing to defend.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)anymore.
You are absolutely right about protecting the people. I once read some writings from founders during the time they debated the impeachment clause. That was a very important thing to many... What if a president creates harm to the country's citizens.
onecaliberal
(32,856 posts)We all heard the Woodward tape.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)onecaliberal
(32,856 posts)LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)But we can still hope for some smiting or the wrath of god.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)of deaths he caused. The mortality rate from his negligence, lethal leadership, undermining of sound medical practice can be calculated. He caused deaths, he, himself personally.
Justice matters.
(6,928 posts)It will disapear with the SUN in the spring. Yeah. He used it as a political weapon against the Dems.
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS preventable deaths and he walks out making stupid rallies scot free???
Lock him up.
Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)and downplay it all to keep the economy from failing? My guess for his defense ?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)about people panicking if he told everyone. Can't think of anything other than people maybe refusing to go to work? Economy over people? Or swarming groceries? Shit I'd bring up that he continued to have his stupid hate rallies. That was negligence for sure.
And we didn't even impeach him for this
Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)for acts done in their capacity as president. Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731 (1982).
Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)a crime under federal law (the statute calls it second-degree murder) only when it occurs in the violation of federal law or on federal land or territory. But no prosecutor is going to charge TFG for murder or manslaughter on account of the pandemic. There is a lot of lower-hanging legal fruit.
stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)this is kind of a silly topic. I'm sorry that I've spent the time I already have on it.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Is an incredible waste of time. Luckily you still have time to go to the garage and find a cure for acid rain.
stopdiggin
(11,306 posts)or change what is real. Sometimes the unvarnished truth is a better serum than gallons of foolish but misguided optimism. What you are attempting to advance here is the latter.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Stuart G
(38,424 posts)this will cost Trump a whole lot..The people that filed this, know what to do and how to do it...
And Donald Trump doesn't have a clue...He will pay more in lawyer's fees than he can imagine..
And after a while, he will not be able to raise money....
Why?...Trump will be indicted soon, and that will take him down...This is not an impeachment. Trump will
not settle this lawsuit, and the people that filed won't allow it to be settled..
........So, it ain't over till it is over.........AND IT AIN'T OVER...!!!!!! ......
Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)that presidents are immune from civil liability for acts taken in their capacity as president, and the guy who filed this lawsuit clearly doesn't know what he's doing (pro se litigants usually don't). Trump might be indicted for other things - and I hope he is - but this lawsuit will crash and burn on takeoff.
Stuart G
(38,424 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,728 posts)Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)C'mon...it's not happening.
the slobfather hasn't even been indicted yet on stuff that's easy to figure out.
live love laugh
(13,105 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)public who were unwillingly used.
LudwigPastorius
(9,140 posts)This 5 - 4 decision by the Supreme Court establishes that the President is entitled to absolute immunity from legal liability for civil damages based on his official acts.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)of airborne deadly virus. Is that an official act?
Ocelot II
(115,690 posts)Rhiannon12866
(205,320 posts)YoshidaYui
(41,831 posts)Smackdown2019
(1,187 posts)All his comments and actions are executive privilege and are protected. US Attorneys would have to defend on this, meaning you and I will flipping the bill.
Kid Berwyn
(14,904 posts)I dont want the money as much as the history to fully relate the truth about the mass murdering fascist shitbag.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Some consolation
Blue Owl
(50,362 posts)librechik
(30,674 posts)good luck to all the families.