Do you think that gyms are safe if you are vaccinated?

[Dawson Leery]

What about restaurants? Malls? How are we feeling at this time about the progress made on fighting the Corona Virus?

[Throck]

1. Depends on the state.

[Dawson Leery]

2. Connecticut.

[Throck]

8. I'd be good to go.

The north east is in excellent shape.

[GulfCoast66]

52. Actually depends on the area of the state.

My part of Florida has good vaccinated rates. Some of the rural counties are less than 30%.

I would go to a gym here. But in the dumb ass parts of Florida maybe not.

[we can do it]

3. Are you masking?

I’d say yes if masking, no if not. I do not trust others who are not masking indoors.

[Dawson Leery]

4. I am both vaccinated and masked.

[we can do it]

6. We have a lot of out of state visitors in our resort town.

None of them seem to wear masks and I doubt half of them are vaccinated. They were anti mask bullying last year. I’m in Delaware and we are at 70 percent vaxxed now.

[Shrek]

5. Yes

I'm comfortable with pretty much any of my normal activities.

[beaglelover]

17. I'm 100% with you!

[femmedem]

7. I still feel fairly safe in CT where we have a high vaccination rate and a low Delta rate.

Last week the Delta variant was a bit over 13% of new cases here. The previous week, Delta was less than 4% of new cases. In my city of approximately 30,000 people, we had zero cases last Friday through last Sunday, then four new cases Monday through Wednesday.

I went to a restaurant for lunch yesterday--the first time in a year and a half. I felt safe-ish, but I think that within a couple of weeks, cases will have risen rapidly. My restaurant excursion might have been my last for quite a while.

[Bleacher Creature]

9. I've been wondering the same thing.

My plan is to go during really quiet times, and stay masked the whole time. I'm in the DC area, so vaccination rates are good.

[bearsfootball516]

10. According to the CDC, yes.

As long as you're fully vaccinated, you're safe to enjoy everyday activities without masks without fear of infection.

[Ms. Toad]

37. And according to WHO you should be wearing a mask. n/t

[GulfCoast66]

41. If I had that shitty Chinese vaccine I would still be doing what I did a year ago

And lots of counties do. The WHO looks at the entire globe.

Not all vaccines are equal.

Chile had a large percentage of vaccinated people getting it even before Delta. We haven’t.

And Chile used the Chinese vaccine.

[Ms. Toad]

46. If you like the 19.2/100 odds of getting COVID,

not much I can do to change your mind. I just hope you don't contribute to creating more variants or expose any 0-11 year olds while you play Russian Roulette with your own health.

Given the decreased effectiveness of mRNA vaccines against Delta (88% v 95%) and the 60% higher infection rate, the exposure that would have created 100 COVID cases in unvaccinated individuals will create 19.2 Delta COVID cases in those vaccinated with mRNA vaccines - and at least 40 Delta COVID cases in those vaccinated with J&J (likely more, since we don't know what the drop in effectiveness of the J&J vaccines against Delta).

Far too many people are ignorant of how to read snapshots of a particular moment in time, and have extrapolated the minimal risk well beyond what the numbers actually represent.

[GulfCoast66]

51. I fully understand how the numbers work.

Using your scenarios if I’m in unvaccinated I have a 100% chance of catching Covid. I do not have an 89% chance of catching it. If so I would have already had it. It assumes I’m exposed to the virus in enough concentration to actually get it. My community has a decent vaccination rate. So that alone decreases my chances of being exposed to it. And we have a lot of people who had it, further decreasing my chances.

And I’ve never been a fan of big crowds. So that further minimizes my chance. And while I don’t go to the gym, I eat out often. But because in Florida usually outdoors. None of this is because of Covid but it’s what I’ve always done.

For a year we have heard on DU “listen to the CDC”. And I did. Masked like crazy. And it kept me safe. Since the CDC changed their recommendation it is suddenly not to be believed. And since that time we keep reading posts about how Covid is about to explode again. And in parts of the country like Missouri and east Texas with abysmal vaccination rates it’s going up again. As expected. But there there has been no explosion. It’s almost a month since Memorial Day. Our cases here continue to go down.

I do not criticize those who continue to take serious precautions. If I were older I might.

But the numbers I read make me comfortable resuming my normal life. Except if I go to the grocery when crowded. I wear my mask then.

Could I catch Covid? Sure. Could it kill me? Yeah. But I studied statistics and weighing the odds I’m comfortable not masking most of the time. I have as great a chance of dying in a car crash than from Covid. Others opinions may differ.

[Cosmocat]

11. I have been a vigilant workout person since the early 90s

and I went an entire year plus, from when the pandemic started getting serious March of 2020 until about two weeks ago without stepping foot in my gym.

Its a really spacious planet fitness, and we are not piled onto each other at all, I got vacinnated about two months ago and our area is open.

Glad to be back, thought I upped my jogging when I was off and ran more the last year since before we had the kids.

[apcalc]

12. I am at my gym now

Two other people in the room…about 30’ away . People in my area (Philly burbs) are generally vaccinated.

I’ve been coming about a month-all good.

There is a local Y with many more attendees…and rarely I go there… mask up each time.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

13. No, and especially if you are high-risk.

That would depend on the individual gym and their quality of air treatment and cleanliness of the place. Masks are almost completely ineffective when people are breathing heavily, especially on the exhale side and most of the masks in common usage don't seal very well on the inhale side.

The world appears to be in for a long slog with this damn thing because large areas still don't take this seriously and many undeveloped nations simply can't afford to attack it properly. Humans are simply too territorial and selfish to attack a common problem efficiently, even when it's deadly. Europe and other areas are already having to take back steps away from opening up, mostly due to the Delta variant.

Being in a high risk category, I'm not yet changing my public exposure habits and probably won't until these viruses mutations die down.

KY

[Arkansas Granny]

14. The vaccination rate in Arkansas right now is 34%. We rank near the bottom.

The vaccination rate for my country is 25%. Our positivity rate is somewhere between 15% and 20%.

I'm keeping most of my Covid routine in place.

[beaglelover]

20. I'm curious. What are the main reasons people in your area won't get the vaccine?

Are they afraid of the vaccine because it's not fully approved yet? Or do they not believe COVID-19 is a real thing? Vaccines are plentiful now and I just don't understand why someone who could get the shots, will not get the shots.

[beaglelover]

15. Yes, both places are entirely safe if you are fully vaccinated.

I'm fully vaccinated and no longer wear a mask anywhere unless it is mandated by the business or workplace I am visiting. It's so nice to be living an almost normal life again. FREEDOM!!!

[doc03]

16. Since I got the vaccine I have gone back

to my life before the COVID. When the weather gets cold I plan on going back to the gym. For now I get my exercise bike riding and grass curtting.

[Klaralven]

18. Were gyms and malls safe before Covid?

It sort of depended...

[beaglelover]

21. Depended on the time of year. During flu season, probably more risky.

As long as you're vigilant about washing your hands thoroughly after visiting the gym you should be fine.

Many years ago I got a super nasty stomach virus from the gym. Probably picked up fecal matter somewhere. Man was I sick sick sick for a couple of days. Never again!!

[Klaralven]

22. Year and a half ago I was at a restaurant with a group. Waiter was sick. Everyone came down later.

Really nasty cold / flu type symptoms.

Hopefully, restaurants never again let sick employees work until well.

[Mr.Bill]

43. The virus aside,

gyms are bacterial cesspools. I used to own an upholstery shop about 20 years ago. A local gym used to bring me worn padded pieces to re-upholster. If you could see and smell those things when I took them apart you would never set foot in a gym as long as you live. And this was a high-end spa type of place and had several physical therapists working there using the place to do physical rehab.

I used to wear a mask and rubber gloves when I worked on that stuff.

[eShirl]

19. I dunno, the pool grossed me out even before the pandemic

[Mr.Bill]

44. I feel the same way about hot tubs.

Communal bathing with people I don't even know? Really?

[enid602]

23. Hold off

I'd hold off going to the gym until this fall, when we're well past Memorial Day, 4th of July, summer travel season, etc. See what the statistics look like them. HUGE outbreak of delta in Chile,where 64% of adults have had two shots. Good news is that very few hospitalizations of vaccinated people within the last two months.

[GulfCoast66]

45. 93% of the people in Chile got the Chinese vaccine.

Which was failing at large rates even before Delta.

They were having way more breakthrough cases even before Delta. Not all vaccines are equal.

[enid602]

56. Chile

Not failing in Chile. Almost no deaths/hospitalizations among vaccinated. They are quite appreciative of the Chinese, and hate us for not taking more of a leadership role with regard to vaccinations. The point, though is that the delta variant is wreaking havoc with the unvaccinated segment of the population. Hospitals at 100% capacity. It is not even being reported here.

[GulfCoast66]

57. Shows how American press does a shitty job of reporting from foreign countries.

Not surprising since they have all cut their foreign bureaus to the point of non-existence. Gotta pay the stock holders, you know.

I read about the Chile outbreak and it was blamed on the China vaccine. I guess I’m going to have to only use the BBC for foreign news.

Thanks for the clarification.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

24. If you're fully vaccinated you can go to gyms and restaurants.

I don't get why so many here (other than those who might actually be immuno-compromised) seem to have zero trust in the vaccines.

[Ms. Toad]

39. Recognizing the limitations of the vaccine is not the same thing as "zero trust"

There's a crap-ton of people who don't understand high school arithmetic, and are being fooled by out-of-context numbers that (1) focus exclusively on death and (2) completely misinterpret what the numbers reported out of LA mean **even** if the only concern was death.

A 95% effectiveness means that for every 100 cases in unvaccinated people, there will be 5 breakthrough cases in vaccinated people with the same exposure.

The Delta variant is 60% more contagious.

That means that for every 100 cases of original variant COVID, there will be 160 cases of Delta variant COVID in individuals with the same exposure.

AND - the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines decreases to 88%.

That means for exposure that would have created 100 cases of original COVID in unvaccinated people, there will be 19.2 breakthrough Delta cases in vaccinated individuals (160 x .12) (For J&J - 40 cases, not even taking into account any decrease in effectiveness since those numbers are not yet available for J&J)

COVID is deadly and unpredictable, and for every deadly case there are a significant number of cases that cause permanent heart or lung damage or long haul COVID.

I trust the vaccines to provide decent, but incomplete protection. With the number of unvaccinated idiots not wearing masks spreading the Delta variant, it is stupid not to add another layer of protection.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

53. So okay. You are very cautious about this.

The risk is still incredibly low. The actual risk of Covid is extremely small, and if you're vaccinated it's vastly smaller.

The unvaccinated idiots really have no effect on those of us who are vaccinated. So get over it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

54. Yes. The people here who are freaking out at the

extremely low risk of infection are making me crazy. Get over it. Your risk is incredibly small. Get a hobby.

[Ms. Toad]

55. It actually isn't.

The "extremely small" numbers you are relying on were collected over a very brief period of time, while people were wearing masks, when the Delta variant did not exist - yet they are being touted as if they apply for all time, in all circumstances. That is just plain math illiteracy.

Go back through the calculations, based on comparative risks for vaccinated v. unvaccinated (not a snapshot in time - which tells you next to nothing).

The exact same level of exposure that caused 100 garden-variety cases of COVID in unvaccinated people will now cause 19.2 cases of Delta in vaccinated people.

While I welcome an 80.8 % reduction in risk, I don't consider a 19.2% chance of contracting COVID, relative to the era before the Delta variant and vaccines "safe." Masks cost next to nothing - we should all stlll be using them.

The unvaccinated idiots infect our children ages 0-11 who cannot be vaccinated. They also impact us by creating variants. And the specific variant currently circulating increased our risk from 5% risk of a breakthrough case to a 19.2% risk of a breakthorugh case. So yes, they do impact us.

ETA: https://democraticunderground.com/100215588272

Unvaccinated people do more than merely risk their own health. They're also a risk to everyone if they become infected with coronavirus, infectious disease specialists say.

That's because the only source of new coronavirus variants is the body of an infected person.

"Unvaccinated people are potential variant factories," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told CNN Friday.

SNIP

The current vaccines protect well against all the variants so far, but that could change at any moment. That's why doctors and public health officials want more people to get vaccinated.
What parents need to know about children and the Delta variant.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/03/health/unvaccinated-variant-factories/index.html

[maxsolomon]

25. Nothing is ever 100% except death.

Odds are really good that you won't die - from Covid.

You'll die of something, eventually. That's 100%.

[pwb]

26. Do you trust others to be truthful?

The new variants kick ass? Vaccinated people can get it. Only difference if we get it most don't need hospitalizations . I just do my weekly loop still, with a mask. Just be careful, especially when being still around others.

[TheFarseer]

27. I went for the first time in a long time

Last week and felt pretty safe. I tried hard not to touch my face and tried to stay away from people. Did not feel it necessary to wear a mask.

[Ms. Toad]

40. The risk isn't touching your face.

It is breathing in aerosolized particles - which is less dependent on proximity than it is on the HVAC system, and where it sends those particles.

Feeling safe without a mask has little relationship to actually being safe.

[WarGamer]

28. Safe? Nothing is safe. Airplanes, cars, hot air balloons? Not safe.

Safety is relative.

If you're vaccinated, going to the gym is relatively safe. If you ALSO have underlying health conditions, then maybe work out at home. There ARE break-through infections and some deaths.

IF I were to go to a large gym, I'd probably try to keep socially distant, wear latex gloves and use hand sanitizer back in the car.

[Deuxcents]

29. In a word..No

Ty to the du poster that had the Tampa Times chart of Florida by zip codes. My zip had 36% reported vaccinations. Nope. Not safe.

[Happy Hoosier]

30. I think I am safe in most circumstances

I won’t go to a tightly packed situation where the unvaxxed may be, but otherwise, I am anxious to live my life again.

[mcar]

31. I've been going back to the gym since April

I was vaccinated in February. I feel comfortable, especially given the ongoing reports from the CDC that the vaccines work, even against the Delta variant.

[LAS14]

32. I'm fine with being fully vaccinated. Wolinsky explained the WHO...

... statement to my satisfaction. It was focused on unvaccinated people. 95% of the population in some countries. The public isn't up to dealing with nuance. It's MASK or DON'T MASK. And in most countries it better be MASKED, even if fully vaccinated people don't need to.

[Scrivener7]

33. I'm doing restaurants but I'm keeping an eye on the numbers. There are already a number

of states whose numbers seem to be beginning to jump.

No reason, but I don't think I'll feel comfortable in a gym anytime soon.

[DET]

34. Depends

My son is a personal trainer at a popular local gym. He went back to work in July 2020, plus he works out several hours each day at the gym. We were terrified that he’d get Covid, but neither he nor his clients nor the staff ever did.

But this is in Northern Virginia where most people have been very compliant with mask and distancing requirements and most of us are now vaccinated. If I lived in the deep South, Florida, Texas, or parts of the Midwest I don’t know that I’d feel safe just stepping outside the door.

[Crunchy Frog]

35. I just took a look at the Worldometer site, and it looks like case numbers are rising again.

Over 18,000 today, when it had been closer to 10,000 a few days ago.

So I'm still in the wait and see mode. I wear masks indoors and avoid indoor places with lots of people.

I'm being more lax with my vaxxed 12 year olds, though. They've restarted karate and have been swimming at the Y, and the local lake.

They've been socially isolated too long, plus the Pfizer is supposed to be super effective in kids their age.

[Ms. Toad]

42. They have been rising from 3% to 11% over the past 3 weeks or so.

This week is up 11% over the prior week.

[tavernier]

36. No.

I bought a room size treadmill for a great price at Amazon last month and I’ve walked the world on YouTube in my A/C ever since, and haven’t had to worry about mouth breather magats.

[milestogo]

38. Too much heavy breathing going on.

[madinmaryland]

47. Absolutely not! Gym Jordan should be in jail.

[Dawson Leery]

60. ROLF!

That's Borowitz level material.

[Ms. Toad]

48. With layers of protection (mRNA vaccine + masks + distancing)

they are pretty safe.

Restaurants are, of course, the riskiest since you have to remove a layer of protection. I'm minimizing visits to restaurants - with a strong (near exclusive) preference for outdoor seating.

[GulfCoast66]

49. Yep. Realize no vaccine is perfect.

But if vaccinated you are unlikely to get it and the odds of you going to the hospital are astronomically low.

Especially if you live in a place where vaccination rates are 50%+. And my experience with gyms is most people willing to pay money to stay healthy probably have been vaccinated.

[Hekate]

50. I desperately need to get back to Pilates or the Y and am trying to goad myself into it...

I think that given my propensity for touching my face, it would be smart to wear a mask in a gym.

We are just taking it step by step. We’ll take our SIL out to a restaurant for her b’day next week. We wear masks to the grocery store. I met an old friend for salad at the Natural Cafe. Our medical appointments still require masking up. My allergist sadly told me how many docs at the clinic got sick, and that one of them died.

I think California is doing okay, all things considered, but dh and I still hardly go anywhere.

Oh, a friend of mine went to song-writing camp in Idaho and said that she and her travel buddy wore masks into town and the locals looked at them as if they were from another planet.

This is not over, is it? But at least those of us who are vaccinated can not only find our keys in a jiffy but have some genuine assurance that we should be reasonably safe in this new world. Now if only all our loved ones would do likewise.

[KentuckyWoman]

58. According to CDC and my doc yes.

However, I am still nervous and have not yet gone.

[Liberal In Texas]

59. Sort of. I'm using some of the equipment in a nearby hospital PT area.

They charge a nominal fee and it's in the same area with recovering cardiac patients. Masks are required and without knowing for sure I would bet most if not all us elderly are vaccinated.