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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am 72 years old. I have always thought of climate change as a disaster that I would
Last edited Sat Jul 3, 2021, 10:19 AM - Edit history (1)
leave my children and grandchildren to confront. I felt guilty that I would be dead by the time they would be suffering for my generation's ignorance, apathy and lack of political will. I no longer feel that way.
The drastic adverse effects of climate change are no longer "coming"--- they are here. Barring unexpected fatal illness, I will "share the pain" we have wrought.
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secondwind
(16,903 posts)Am 75, and grandkids range from 3 to 22. Ugh 
Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)climate and our environment. But that won't stop the volcano, the earthquake, the hurricane/typhoon
or prevent comet/asteroid strikes on our planet. I'm also 72 and I'm leaving my grandkids the same
situation that I inherited when I was born.
Response to abqtommy (Reply #3)
Post removed
stopdiggin
(15,463 posts)is that this is not just 'misunderstanding' - it's deliberate misunderstanding, with a side dish of obfuscation. And it's getting to the place where I'm pretty short on tolerance for the misinformation and 'tower of babel' crowd.
If this is a case where the poster just genuinely doesn't understand the subject at all - my apologies. But if they're just flinging around their bullsh*t in an effort to troll this site ... I say F off - and crawl back under your rock.
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PatrickforB
(15,426 posts)all she wrote for much of North America.
As to misunderstandings, I believe the person to whom your replied rudely was merely pointing out that human-caused carbon emissions have opened the way for ever more severe storms.
Now, let us address your rudeness. You called the person to whom you replied 'grandpa' in a patronizing way, as if you have the corner on the market for either wisdom or knowledge.
I am 62 and a grandpa. I've also had a lifetime of achievement in my own field and am highly respected. And yes, I am a baby boomer. And yes, I RESENT people such as yourself applying pejorative terms to people in my generation as they grow older.
You were out of line and should apologize for that. You can disagree with someone on here - that's fine - but you do not get to call them names.
On edit: I still stand by my statements around your rudeness, but upon a review of the person's post, I can see why you felt the way you did. 'Passing on the same situation he inherited,' indeed. It is time to fix the problem in as far as we possibly can. Think as a species and plan as a species, because this really is an existential problem. I'm wholly with you on the urgency of that. No one presently alive is excused from doing whatever they can, as well as voting in people who WILL address the problem.
But...please don't be rude to aging boomers.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)that deserves rudeness, it is us. We've had EVERY opportunity to improve our world and blew it at EVERY turn. We generally had a pretty good public education but have let that elementary priority slide. Studying history is, apparently, hard on people. I saw US put Nixon and then Reagan in office. I saw US buy into all the half-witted propaganda put out there by the MIC since right after WWII and the petrochemical lobby since the early 70's. And, THAT, after we had front and center seats at the biggest eyeopener of the 20th century, the Viet Nam fraud, in living color every night at 6:00 CST. It was exemplary of how screwed we are when we give credibility to those whose lifestyle is predicated on lying in public for the benefit of the energy and finance industries.
What pisses me off is when people parade out the trash logic of FOX news and expect me to respect their "opinion". The poster particularly seems to take no responsibility and does not even acknowledge that humans are the culprit for this mess. He has decided our footprint in the issue is negligible when the fact is that human presence is the ONLY commonality with the global climate data which reveals evidence of an unprecedented long term trend. Hell, he doesn't even seem to understand the difference between a local event and systemic phenomena. That's pretty important. People confused that isolated volcanoes or severe hurricanes are comparable to GLOBAL TEMPERATURE RISE certainly don't realize that it's already way past too late to turn the calendar back 50 years.
So yeah, when our grandkids and great-grandkids are choking to death on whatever they call atmosphere we'll have within 50 years or LESS then I'm sure they'll appreciate that they, at least, missed the big earthquake.
And the smugness of ignorance is sickening. He's the guy standing behind his grandchildren with his Alfred E. Newman impersonation, saying "yep kids, this is all I had when I was just a kid, so suck it up".
But, and I sincerely mean it, sorry if I offended anyone.
PatrickforB
(15,426 posts)my own state, and I have been harping on how teleworking can reduce our carbon footprint. My governor is trying to work with surrounding states to build out a plug-in car charging grid so we can get 900K electric cars on the roads by 2035. In the meantime, by the same year, I think, our power utility wants to be 85% carbon free.
The pandemic was a real drag, especially how Trump handled it, but I can remember back to April and May 2020 when there were very few cars on the road. I remember being struck by how clean the air had gotten, and how many wild animals began showing up.
Now, shockingly, I read in the NYT that the commute pattern in my city has snapped right back to pre-pandemic levels. How blind can we be??? And then those Exxon lobbyists that successfully watered down Biden's infrastructure bill. I agree - we are SO short sighted.
As to offense, none taken, and no worries!
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)until climate change is brought into the equation...
dianaredwing
(406 posts)As a Katrina survivor, I understand storms and I have lived here long enough to see the effects of climate change. However, what people tend to ignore is the fact that we have scientists of all sorts who have a pretty good idea what will happen if....and yet we have allowed at least fifty years of inept government response to effecting means of ameliorating the worst case scenarios. We know what will happen and when, but we have given our money to corporations instead of investing it in levees, bridges, roads, buildings, and other infrastructure that could lessen some of the worst results of those inevitable disasters. Texas freeze is one example. We have to fight this battle on many fronts and not with one another. Defund the corporations and refund the people.
NH Ethylene
(31,346 posts)I am a grandparent and I don't think that fact should be turned into a slur.
People of all ages can be ignorant of climate change facts. The ability to understand science and be concerned about the environment is not age-related. In fact, many older people here have a long history of environmental activism.
Captain Zero
(8,905 posts)Lots of younger people whine and moan about us,
but we are still having to BEG so very many of them to simply go VOTE.
NH Ethylene
(31,346 posts)But have voted in every presidential election ever since.
stopdiggin
(15,463 posts)brought his age and 'grandpa' status to the fore. With an (attempt) to make a smug and condescending (not to mention flat out wrong) point on that basis.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,604 posts)This is now the thread of the 72 year-olds.
On my planet, Chicago had years of frostbite-cold winter waves that would last for days, sometimes weeks, days when temperatures of 10F were a warming spell. When I moved to northwest Oregon over 30 years ago, a half-dozen 90F days per summer were a little above average.
Humans are absolutely wreaking the planet. And they're (eh... WE!) doing so because money is the reward. It's a centuries-old story that "modern" humans exploit resources with the intent of "conquering" nature and accumulating wealth, when our only path to preserving the planet is to act as if we are at one with nature and the Earth.
We know that the record of life on Earth shows that 99% of all organisms that ever lived are EXTINCT. We are just another species that can either adapt to nature's force or die off and take most of the more advanced life forms with us. There is no magic.
Tommy, when you are 82, and you watch those hurricanes wash over the Florida peninsula, leaving half of Florida under salt water, tell your grandkids what it was like in the 1960s, when the Amazon rain forests weren't being burned down so that corporations could raise methane-producing cattle for fast-food hamburgers and the oceans weren't being trolled clean of fish for cat food.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)old and that catastrophic weather events, ice ages, heat waves and extermination events have
occurred even before there was a human race around.
It is important for us to do what we can but the basic reality is that we live on a dangerous planet located in a very dangerous universe. Thanks for your comments.
stopdiggin
(15,463 posts)(and I think a good deal more accurate) if it were presented thus:
It's the fact that you just can't quite seem to get to the second part ...
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)criticism.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)Overshooting the carrying capacity of earth eating the fish.
If you really want to know what commercial cat food is made of think chicken waste from the floor,beef entrails,roadkill and fish waste. Spoiling meat from supermarkets euthanized pets It's all ground up with a huge auger, cooked at 212°
The grease siphoned off and what's left is protein powder,looks like brown sugar. Gets mixed with pink slime cooked and chopped to bits .
That's what humans feed pets.
Its fucking wrong,but there are too many human mouths to feed. Very little left for pets and wild animals.
While the bugs die and birds die of starvation.
The animal deaths and wild animal death caused by humans and farming and cars is staggering.
We are horrible creatures. We should know better,and know not to let sociopaths control our lives via corporations and profiteering.
But there it is.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)large number of our population. And that we should make better decisions. I agree. By the way, I don't
keep any pets but I don't think people who do should give them up. 
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)give him up. We love each other.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)
dixiegrrrrl
(60,161 posts)Was born and raised in the Pac. NW. Got to know almost every inch of Wash. state, both sides.
We watched Exxon lie and cover up the infamous Valdez oil spill, and the decades long resistance to any environmental regulation.
I have watched the destruction of the fishing industry, including the famed salmon runs. the now threatened extinction of the beloved orcas in the Sound, massive loss of forests as more are destroyed to build housing into what once were foothills of the Cascade mountains, and reduction of the winter snowpacks that provide drinking water to Western Washington.
Plus the huge losses and damage to now annual massive forest fires.
The yearly rise of annual temperatures are now threatening the survival of important crops, esp. the apples, cherries, in E. Washington.
this year so far it was reported 100 fruit pickers died of the heat as farmers rushed to get the crops picked.
I really don't have the stomach to buy and eat any that fruit now.
My 2 sons grew up to appreciate some of the remaining wonders of the state, my oldest son got a degree in Fisheries, learned first hand about problems with the salmon runs.
When they reached their mid-20s, they both, independently of each other,decided to not have kids because of the future they saw coming. That was 30 years ago.
Every year I have seen the growing danger of ignoring climate change,and have applauded their decision.
the problem I have now is that all my memories of growing up and living in a true paradise are deeply tainted with sadness of what has been lost just up to this point.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)yes, I was born in Washington State, for what that's worth.
mahina
(20,645 posts)
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)but the whole weight shouldn't have fallen on their shoulders, nor the consequences of our failure to meet the challenge.
I'm heartbroken over it, as well as the state of our political and social culture.
NH Ethylene
(31,346 posts)I feel so sad for my grandchildren. I don't know how bad it's going to get for them, but I suspect the worst.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the changes would probably force enough action before it got this bad of course, but everything my college physical geography teacher once explained would happen if we didn't stop it has been ever since, including the acceleration we've been living through in recent decades.
Climate/water concerns were actually one thing that made me willing to leave Southern California 20 years ago, not the only ones but on the list. Seven years of drought and increasing temperatures out of the past 9 were not fun for a gardener, and I knew it was only going to get worse.
Btw, all those decades it's always been the left through the Democratic Party that's lead what action has been taken, and conservative-business opposition that's fought ferociously to block it. When Democratic President Johnson officially warned the nation in 1965 that we had to change to meet this giant threat, conservative big business immediately weaponized to fight action, including using the new, modern advertising techniques to swamp the populace with lies that it wasn't happening.
markie
(24,017 posts)over 50 years ago, involved with a community that knew and did what we could... it takes collective action and too many greedy, self-centered deniers are destroying what we have
Jedi Guy
(3,477 posts)To some extent it's human nature to close one's eyes to a problem one would just as soon not confront. Not because one is greedy and wants more, but because one doesn't want to upset the applecart of what's familiar and comfortable. "If I don't acknowledge the problem, it'll just sort itself out." Trump's response (heavy sarcasm here) to Covid is a perfect example of this mindset.
There's probably a significant fear component there, as well. Some people are just loath to acknowledge when they're afraid of something, anything. I worked with a guy who was clearly an arachnophobe. If he saw a spider, he was out of the room so fast he left a vapor trail. But he refused to acknowledge that fear and insisted he "just doesn't like them."
Unfortunately, we're fighting human nature in addition to climate change. A friend of mine is fond of referring to humans as "overclocked monkeys" and he's certainly right in that the monkey-brain is still very much present.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,604 posts)then "human nature" dictates that the human species is on the road to extinction. It means the "human nature" is NOT compatible with the "operating manual for spaceship Earth." I know. I'm pulling Bucky Fuller out of my memory bank. He was absolutely correct in his predictions from the late '60s and '70s.
markie
(24,017 posts)seems that way if those of us that are aware cannot overpower the rest...
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for humanity, varying in degree regionally but overall with much suffering and death, seems within our reach.
It's always been the job of sensible, balanced people to check the others. When we fail, things go bad. That doesn't mean we're all incompatible with life. I never indulge the irresponsible fantasy that I'm doomed to dysfunction and don't have a job to do.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)And that's the way it is................ on aisle J-38.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Evolve Dammit
(21,777 posts)Nixon, who wouldn't make it out of a primary today. And yes, "advertising swamping the populace with lies" included 24/7/365 deniers and propagandists like Limbaugh for the last 35 years. The model worked so well, there are hundreds following it and millions are completely, intentionally, defiantly ignorant, and proud of it. Covid and 1/6 show us how deep this mis/dis-information has reached.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)congressman's voting record on a variety of environment-related issues since about 1971, I think -- the year before Biden was first elected. We can see annual and lifetime voting records for each and how the Republicans dropped from their pre- climate-war years averages, and Dems rose.
Now, the typical Republican annual average is 0% support of these issues, Dems 100%. For relative newcomers that's their lifetime average also. Biden's always been a climate supporter, one of the big people in congress that groups like the LCV worked with.
As you noted, back in those years the GOP still had moderate and progressive cons, like Tricky Dicky, as well as some liberals, who worked with Dems for common cause, including to keep extremists in check. The Southern conservative culture hadn't taken over yet.
Sigh.
Evolve Dammit
(21,777 posts)progressive. Even Bush the Smarter called them "the crazies" when W was appointed and they were all about "nation building", "creating our own reality" the "unitary executive" and "deficits don't matter." Enron's Ken Lay having his own desk in the WH drooling over Iraq's oil fields. 
And When League of Conservation Voters hosted/ moderated the debates, the quality was much better. Thanks for the perspective!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)has progressed to extremism over the decades, and now they all "the crazies." The corruption and extremism are from bottom up, not just top down, so no idea how they're supposed to get better leaders, but I do believe if they decided to follow another Bush the Smarter, say, we'd see a dramatic change in their overall attitudes to reflect their leader's. Not that he didn't reflect them to a lesser degree, but...
Oh, well.
Evolve Dammit
(21,777 posts)now though, that's for sure. A different leader like a Cheney or Kinsinger isn't nasty enough for them though, so I don't expect any change. If anything, the base will double down echoing orange guy's rhetoric. He owns the party even in defeat, which is just incredible. They believe the Big Lie; hook, line and sinker.
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)the hell with the future (I won't be alive anyway) and my children and grandchildren must take care of themselves"
has always been the business/Republican party line...
Ayn Rand and "selfishness"
malaise
(296,111 posts)and if you want proof a hurricane came real close to Barbados on July 2nd.
That simply does not happen.
NH Ethylene
(31,346 posts)The first Atlantic hurricane is not coming just a little bit earlier than usual, but a LOT earlier.
The first hurricane of the Atlantic season typically forms around Aug. 10, University of Georgia meteorologist Marshall Shepherd wrote in Forbes. We usually do not see the E storm, the fifth of the season, “E” (5th) storm of the season until around Aug. 31, he said.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/07/02/hurricane-elsa-becomes-first-2021-season-florida-path-next-week/7838508002/?fbclid=IwAR1cwaYsHp4kPSdrNX-TAM3xrklucGtksSQ2vVLJpkGZLa9ZgHJvHphOdjo
malaise
(296,111 posts)It's time for all to get serious
dianaredwing
(406 posts)Third worlder here in Louisiana too and I watch all the storms with trepedation. I don't trust them to do what they are supposed to do any more. Who let the dogs out, indeed. After seeing Katrina engulf the Gulf, I will never again doubt that climate change is real and a demon to be dealt with.
Stay safe.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,957 posts)Yes, we will share it...some more than others.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,681 posts)Secondly, the effects of climate change are still just hints and predictions. The major stuff is maybe a few decades off. There are still glaciers that feed some mighty rivers: Brahmaputra, Mekong, Ganges, Yangtse(sp?). When those are gone, rivers will dry up, millions will starve. Snow/Ice caps on Antarctica and Greenland are still mostly intact. When those melt, adios Florida, Bangladesh, Diego Garcia. Fun stuff is still in our children's future.
Goodheart
(5,760 posts)Javaman
(65,711 posts)Nothing of much effort will be done.
And even when and if that happens, the repukes will say that these types of storms that flood and destroyed properties in D.C. have always happened and climate change is a hoax. All the while, while they are standing in ankle deep water in the middle of congress
NH Ethylene
(31,346 posts)Especially in NJ and NYC.
It probably increased awareness of impending climate change effects a bit. But the hits keep coming and nothing seems to be pivotal.
Pobeka
(5,006 posts)We (humans) are going to have to actively modify the atmosphere very quickly to block a fraction of incoming solar or the planet may be left for the insects...
Duppers
(28,469 posts)
Moostache
(11,179 posts)Insect decline in the Anthropocene: Death by a thousand cuts
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/2/e2023989118
Ongoing losses have been clearly demonstrated for better-studied groups of organisms. Terrestrial vertebrate population sizes and ranges have contracted by one-third, and many mammals have experienced range declines of at least 80% over the last century (5). A 2019 assessment suggests that half of all amphibians are imperiled (2.5% of which have recently gone extinct) (6). Bird numbers across North America have fallen by 2.9 billion since 1970 (7). Prospects for the world’s coral reefs, beyond the middle of this century, could scarcely be more dire
The future has been known for decades, but many people were put to sleep by predictions that focused on hiding the median predictions in favor of the outlying ones that showed the problems being many decades in the future. We're about 5-10 years AT MOST away from climate refugees on a planetary scale that will result in WWIII and deaths on a scale that will make the 20th century wars look tame. When water supplies continue to dry up, Las Vegas and Phoenix become uninhabitable - as does much of California and that is before we worry about the crop failures that will accompany this catastrophe.
If life on Earth is typical of life in the universe, the reason we have never made documented contact with other life forms is likely that they - like us - did not make it out of their technological and mental infancy either.
misanthrope
(9,495 posts)I've read this thread starting at the top and while I've come across plenty of salient points, yours was the best response I've encountered thus far. We discounted the median predictions in favor of rosier outliers; that's it in a nutshell.
We've not only done so with the climate predictions, we've done it with our species. Because there are outlying individuals who contain the will and self-awareness to make changes, that is no indicator of the median of the species.
As I've said frequently, the COVID pandemic has been more than one of the zoonotic disease outbreaks predicted by those watching human activity for the last half-century. It's a symptom and predictor both by showing the inherent obstacles to tackling climate change. All we asked people to do was wear masks, take common sense precaution and get vaccinated. Even so, there was enough pushback that it's now speculated this virus will become endemic.
Climate change is far, far more complex and onerous a problem than COVD. But, if we couldn't tackle COVID better than this, what chance do we have against climate change? That failure across our species is evidence we don't want to confront.
In my mind, we don't have any choice but to try. We are way past proactivity at this point.
yonder
(10,293 posts)
Dreampuff
(778 posts)Fellow baby boomer here, so I understand what you are saying. We just have too many deniers and they try to sabotage any way they can. I realize the story I am about to post has some reports saying about Greenpeace setting a trap for this guy, but he said what he said and it wasn't pretty.
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/01/1012138741/exxon-lobbyist-caught-on-video-talks-about-undermining-bidens-climate-push
Ponietz
(4,330 posts)Link to tweet
?s=21|
NewHendoLib
(61,857 posts)
Magoo48
(6,721 posts)Magoo48
(6,721 posts)Duppers
(28,469 posts)Having one fewer child will save 58.6 tonnes of CO2-equivalent per year.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
DH and I are in our mid-70s, made the decision to postpone having children, then decided on only one
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I have no children, don't drive, don't fly unless I absolutely have to and I have cut way back on my meat consumption (which wasn't that high to begin with).
CousinIT
(12,541 posts)Next car will be electric - not gas powered. I fly every 2-4 years only to see family.
Crunchy Frog
(28,280 posts)to the uneducated or religiously insane is necessarily the best strategy.
We don't need a next generation that's largely been produced by people like the Duggars.
I would hope that educated progressives would at least consider adopting, in order to hopefully pass on their values.
JMHO.
Duppers
(28,469 posts)At the rate we're going, there will be nothing to leave to anyone.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)We tend to forget that.
Though I take your point. A world of Duggars would be a hell of its own.
roamer65
(37,953 posts)Its fast becoming an issue of having a habitable planet or not.
Duppers
(28,469 posts)TY!
Backseat Driver
(4,671 posts)DH and I have replaced ourselves on this planet with two females. If I would advise, they have each other to share the burdens of the ridiculous costs of elderly medical care and associated end of life costs and needs for quality life coming up for their boomer parents. One daughter is very sad to still be single and childless. One daughter is happily married, and I have only one grandson for which I am much concerned should he be the family member upon which the burdens of both responsibilities of his parents, possibly even grandparents, would fall. Educational costs along the way for life-long learning that will enable him to take up responsible management should our collective illnesses result in disability is also so important.
After what the economy did in past years under mostly selfish GOP leadership in light of climate change and government's role toward the least among its citizens is unconscionable. Bold DEM leadership will certainly help that single gentleman with possible financial "familial responsibilities" mandated in my sort of purple state. He's the last leaf growing on this branch of the family tree with any ability to claim those obligations. We most definitely need to amend the soil, at the very least, and change certain over-the-top consumer lifestyles to make much head way in assuaging the challenges Mother Nature is in the process of handing the whole planet.
That one-child policy in China had some unexpected consequences. I think there's a Netflix documentary that tells what happened. Then two children were allowed by law, and just recently I had heard that three's the limit presently.
There's so much for my only grandson to learn, to be an informed voter, to be the recipient of truthful information, so those kids can accomplish things we barely ever imagined at the close of WWII. Yes population will continue to grow, but it won't be unbearable if we can be better stewards of clean air, water, growing the food that will nurture us, with more vision, more discipline, and more cooperation and sharing than the sickos that are so enarmored of cancel culture, critical race theory, and weapons - and somehow those folks seem to be "RED." If we can't do it; its pretty clear that near extinction for humans the world over along the lines of the Lewis and Clark expedition or, ultimately, the movie, ALIVE, will ensue in war or in the chaos climate change will cause!
Pachamama
(17,564 posts)...I honestly can say that I believe too many humans do not learn and do not care about the planet and existence of life - including and especially their own or others.
My DU name Pachamama was chosen because of my concern for Mother Earth and climate change and what we are doing (and not doing) to protect and save the planet.
Sadly, after nearly 20 years on DU and seeing what is happening around us, I share your same feelings and great sorrow Atticus. Many things we could and should have done that could have helped were not done and we have reached a critical point where events are happening at faster rates and setting off reactions that can’t be stopped. Just wait till the jet streams and the effects on the Atlantic currents take effect. It was 115 degrees in Portland and Seattle this week - this doesn’t happen without reason and more of this is coming. I remember the blood red skies last year in the San Francisco Bay Area following the fires. Right now we are in a drought and I seriously fear for the fire season coming sooner and worse than the last 5 years.
I was taught by the indigenous people I spent time with decades ago that Pachamama will survive - just in a different form. This is about human survival and the existence of life as we know it. And like I said in my first paragraph, after watching humans for the last 18 months regarding COVID, I think that a large minority of people, through reckless, careless, arrogant and dangerous behavior will put us all in danger and have made me question our survival and the future. And if we can’t come together for battling a virus in a global pandemic, how will we convince humans to care for the planet that sustains us?
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)the question is if civilization will also survive. If we don’t drastically act before 2030, it may very well be too late. Even if we act decisively right now, we’ll still have continued warming for a number of decades.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)It will change, of course; We may end up more Agrarian, or the climate change may slow or reach equilibrium altogether, or it will continue and humanity will adapt. There will be massive die-offs in the billions of course, and I don't expect you'd see humanity return to the days of super-dense metropolises (A fantastic thing, IMO), but both humanity and civilization will survive in one way or another. We're a remarkably adaptive species with incredible social bonds and physical resilience; We're built to survive, and civilization/society is built into our genes at this point as a survival mechanism. We'll be all right.
StevieM
(10,578 posts)It is not at all clear that civilization, or even humanity, will survive.
You should read this article.
http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm?fbclid=IwAR3nSMwxlQIMupZRwA8uLBjaTX3DhqT3e6oWm8YM1y2cTcYreaUamnWwXZ4
If you are not inclined to read the whole thing then I hope you will at least skip down to the final section and read about what happens at 6 degrees celsius of warming (10.8 degrees Fahrenheit).
StevieM
(10,578 posts)You should read this article.
http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm?fbclid=IwAR3nSMwxlQIMupZRwA8uLBjaTX3DhqT3e6oWm8YM1y2cTcYreaUamnWwXZ4
If you are not inclined to read the whole thing then I hope you will at least skip down to the final section and read about what happens at 6 degrees celsius of warming (10.8 degrees Fahrenheit).
misanthrope
(9,495 posts)In the stark terms needed. All backed by examples from science and observations of human history.
Moostache
(11,179 posts)The planet isn't going anywhere....WE are...we're going away.
An evolutionary cul de sac...a bad case of fleas.
Captain Zero
(8,905 posts)Not always a lot, but practically every night. I have lived here all my life and I know it has never done this before. I've said to people asking if they have noticed a lot of our severe storms have not started up this year but rather it rains, at least a little, sometimes more, EVERY NIGHT.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)Dark triad personalities
The narcissist,authoritarian and psychopaths among us
Are the biggest threat to life on earth.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)that short term profits trump long term survival.
It may not be the actual climate that gets us, but the upheaval caused by the climate. Disasters can be the seeds of war.
Moostache
(11,179 posts)Our entire SYSTEM of economics is based on a fundamental untruth - that infinite "growth" is possible in a finite system. The ONLY way that our economy can work long-term is by infusions of energy and resources external to the limited supply on our planet.
The greed and maleficence of the CEOs and their ilk is an accelerant but not a prime cause. They are scumbags, but they are the natural by-product of a system that convinces people to buy poorly made things that are designed to fail as a business model.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)has a right to be furious with us.
jmbar2
(7,989 posts)In my first semester at college, in the 70s, I took an introductory course on ecology where all of the threats to the planet were discussed. It is all unfolding just as described way back then.
To those who are tempted to jump on the intergenerational warfare track, protecting earth was actually a pretty big movement in the 60s-70s. Our generation passed a lot of legislation that made a difference:
1969 – National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA)
1970 - First Earth Day
1970 – Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
1970 – Clean Air Act (Extension). National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS), New Source Performance Standards (NSPS) Hazardous Air Pollutant standards, and auto emissions tailpipe standards.
1970 – Occupational Safety and Health Act --OSHA and NIOSH
1970 – Lead-Based Paint Poisoning Prevention Act
1970 – Environmental Quality Improvement Act
1972 – Federal Water Pollution Control Amendments of 1972 (P.L. 92-500).
1972 – Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA)
1972 – Marine Protection, Research, and Sanctuaries Act of 1972
1973 – Endangered Species Act
1974 – Safe Drinking Water Act
1975 – Hazardous Materials Transportation Act
1976 – Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA)
1976 – Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA)
1977 – Clean Water Act. Amended FWPCA of 1972.
1977 – Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act
1978 – National Energy Conservation Policy Act
1980 – (CERCLA) Superfund program.
1980 – Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act
1980 – Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act
1982 – Nuclear Waste Policy Act
1986 – Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986
1986 – Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know Act (EPCRKA)
1986 – Superfund Amendments and Reauthorization Act (SARA)
1987 – Water Quality Act. Amended FWPCA of 1972.
1989 – Basel Convention
1989 – Montreal Protocol on ozone-depleting chemicals enters into force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_major_U.S._environmental_and_occupational_health_regulation
It hasn't been enough.
Last week, my little coastal community was flooded with folks fleeing the oppressive temperatures inland. Temporary refugee camps formed all over the coast as vanlife and RV folks, plus regular city folks filled the hotels, campgrounds, state parks, roadside pullouts, and unofficial parking areas for a few days.
There are hundreds of thousands of people living full time in vans and RVs who have been displaced by excessive housing costs. Too many to be accommodated by regular parks. They are the vanguard (excuse the pun) of a coming climate refugee crisis that I read about so many years ago. Not to mention the people who are affected in Mexico, Central and South America.
A lot of us did what we could in the Earth movement. Our efforts were overwhelmed by the collective decisions of the fossil fuels giants worldwide. Yes, our generation worked in those industries, but our little voices in those cubicles could not turn around the giant ships of industry. That needed to come from the government. And it didn't.
I am so sorry for the mess that we are leaving. I try to do what I can, but know it isn't enough. Godspeed to the younger generations to figure it out.
I am so sorry.
misanthrope
(9,495 posts)It's easy to see what comes along with massive migration fleeing disaster and loss of resources.
War. People get protective. They clash. States grow more authoritarian, which tends to exacerbate conflict.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)The class, titled Technology, Ecology, and Man, changed the course of my life. For one thing, as the oldest of 4 kids myself, I was sure I would also have 4 children — before the end of that semester it was irrevocably only two.
I could go on — but our efforts, noble as they may have been, were swamped by the money that outvoted and outshouted us at every turn.
A lot of tried our best. I’m living to see that it didn’t work.
TexasBushwhacker
(21,204 posts)We are the most powerful country on the planet, but even if a collective lightning bolt if awareness struck every person in the US and we reduced our carbon footprint on the planet by 50% or more overnight, most other countries are still burning fossil fuels, including China and India. Just those 2 countries make up over 35% of the world's population and every one of those humans needs energy to live.
Don't get me wrong. I still think it's worth to conserve as much as we can, get off of fossil fuels and use more renewable sources, if for no other reason than to have cleaner air and water. But in terms of slowing climate change, I think where past the tipping point.
chowder66
(12,245 posts)that have been sounding the alarms and coming up with ideas and solutions since before I was born.
Every country has been competing against each other using up and abusing resources.
Many countries have been warring against each other for far, far too long.
Climate issues are a collective issue that needs collective solutions, fast.
Concerned citizens push and prod but the same horrible decision makers keep getting elected over and over.... and in some countries they don't get a choice.
If we want to make real change bad policy makers need to be thrown out.
Another Jackalope
(202 posts)15 years ago I suddenly understood that I would live to see it unravel.
"It" being:
Depletion of the planet's accessible non-renewable resources
Destruction of the biosphere
Planetary overheating
Overpopulation
Cascading collapse of human systems
Fracturing and "rapid simplification" of global civilization, with attendant violence at all scales
I probably sensed it at some subconscious level 50 years ago when I decided never to have children. Good decision.
cagefreesoylentgreen
(838 posts)I’m Gen X and climate change is why I’ve been ambivalent about planning for my retirement. More than likely I won’t live long enough to enjoy reaping the benefits of my savings. Or the drastic changes will simply wipe my nest egg out.
It’s even worse for some of the younger folks I know. They don’t see the point of saving up when they’re convinced they won’t be around long enough to get old.
roamer65
(37,953 posts)“All paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value...zero.”
-Voltaire
In a world with a large scale climate crisis and rapidly dwindling resources, paper money will fast become worthless.
Food and water will be king.
Snackshack
(2,587 posts)Over the years the 1000’s upon 1000’s of models climate scientists have generated to try and understand the effects of rising temperatures on the climate have always had one assumption across the spectrum of models wrong. While the models themselves were correct in the relationship of cause and effect the timelines in the models have consistently been much more optimistic then the reality.
The Paris Accord has target dates for reductions in greenhouse gas emissions that are in 2030 others set at 2050, 2080, 2100. We don’t have this much time if in fact we still have any time at all. We currently sit at ~416ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere. A level not seen on Earth in millions of years. The temp will catch up to that CO2 level going right past the 2C limit agreed upon at the Accord and Earth will be a radically different place then it is today.
CousinIT
(12,541 posts)...is 'someone else's' problem. Namely her two kids and their families. And her younger siblings.
But - she doesn't realize that these issues are going to affect HER too and sooner than she thinks.
Hekate
(100,133 posts) Vinca
(53,994 posts)Climate change seems to have been injected with speed and from coast-to-coast (as well as worldwide) the results are apparent. I wonder if there is any hope at all of turning it around at this point. Probably not given the Republican state of mind in combination with the election manipulating that will no doubt keep them in office.
sellitman
(11,745 posts)He is really entering a way different world then I grew up in.
BigmanPigman
(55,137 posts)One of the reasons was because I didn't think the world was on the right track as far as human beings go. I didn't want to be responsible for dumping our shit on some innocent victim. I also knew I wouldn't be able to protect this person from what humans have created and humans have created some pretty bad shit. I was self aware at a young age and was realistic in my evaluation.
roamer65
(37,953 posts)I had thought about trying to father a child, but now I am glad I did not.
waterwatcher123
(513 posts)I agree that is dreadfully clear that we have crossed a threshold where there are going to be serious consequences for our in-action on climate change. But, we have no alternative but to do whatever we can personally, professionally and collectively to change course so the magic of this planet continues on into the future.
When I was going to graduate school at the Humphrey Institute at the University of Minnesota, about eight of us took a course from a professor who was the advisor to the union in the Silk-wood movie (Kerr-McGee plutonium case). He had us all do a paper on climate change from the perspective of an energy company. What I found in the literature at the time about carbon dioxide levels absolutely shocked me. The scientific community was pretty clear even in the 1980s that the CO2 measurements at Mauna Loa were higher than at any time in the history of the human race. Exxon Mobil, Koch Brothers and their ilk were also aware of this information (earlier yet) and proceeded to obfuscate and confuse the public for the next forty years. These corporations and bad actors deserve to be held accountable and pay reparations for these lies.
We need to make everyone who lives in the reality based world understand that this is the issue of our time. It is not another issue where we can be polled on whether we believe it or how high it should be ranked among a list of pressing considerations. The planet will not be moved one way or another by whether the human race believes in climate change. It is simply going to change as it is doing now due to physics of loading the atmosphere with carbon, methane and other greenhouse gases. The news media needs to connect the dots for a public unable to do so themselves. We also need to do everything we can personally, professionally and collectively to reduce CO2 emissions and to sequester as much carbon as possible. Our city passed a climate emergency. However, the city leaders seem to think we can do this without any change to our lifestyle. It is not possible to continue our energy intensive lives and think we can make progress on reversing climate change. One of the things everyone can do is to get rid of their investments in fossil fuels. Your 401K, pension plan and investment advisors need to hear loud and clear that you do not support investments that put the planet at risk. One of the next items on the to-do-list is to start eating lower on the food chain (animal agriculture is a huge source of carbon emissions). We also need to quickly replace all of the internal combustion trucks, cars and devices with electric alternatives (hopefully produced and fueled with clean energy). President Biden could help this along with cash for clunkers effort where everyone receives a subsidy for trading an internal combustion automobile or device (more assistance for people with lower incomes).
I retired in 2018 after 30 years of trying to slow and reverse the ongoing environmental damage to Lake Superior and the many rivers and lakes in its watershed. It is disheartening to say the least when you know that you are but one person trying to mitigate the thousands of individual decisions that collectively leave their mark on the land and water. I am still using my experience and skills to try and protect public land, and by extension, the same lakes and rivers. When your time comes, I hope you can look back and say that you did whatever you could to change the course of history. This is by no means an easy time for people of conscience. But, the final chapters have not been written yet. So, keep the faith and do whatever you can personally, professionally and collectively to keep the magic of the blue planet alive.
jmbar2
(7,989 posts)Although we are losing the war, we've had some fierce warriors along the way. Thanks for your many years of service to our shared earth.
waterwatcher123
(513 posts)If you ever need to read an interesting book about our human predicament, check out a book called "the World Without US" by Alan Weisman. It is a subtle polemic about the need to reduce our footprint on the Earth before nature does it ruthlessly.
misanthrope
(9,495 posts)As far as we know, we are the sole example of the universe achieving self-awareness. To me, that is an extraordinarily precious thing. I understand the biases and anthropocentrism at play in my belief but I hold it anyway.
I know all species, all matter, the universe itself is finite. But that consciousness seems so elegant and astounding that it would be a shame to waste it.
waterwatcher123
(513 posts)Susan Calvin
(2,438 posts)Every time the scientists say it is bad, it turns out to be worse. I am currently convinced it's exponential. Man. And I don't have the intestinal fortitude to suicide, so I'm going to live through whatever it is, unless natural causes kill me. I am not looking forward to it.
MLAA
(19,745 posts)control would be to stop eating animals. That would reduce methane, save water and on and on. Would also improve people’s health. I’ve been on a plant only diet for about 7 years. I’m on the animals are friends not food bandwagon. I don’t get much support when I occasionally suggest it on DU.
Aussie105
(7,920 posts)Wife and I turned vegetarian, she came to the conclusion all life is worth preserving.
Meat of any sort now turns my stomach and makes me lethargic for days afterwards.
Side effects of not eating meat? Oh, minor ones. Like feeling healthier, having more energy, loosing weight, better control of blood sugar (me with type 2 diabetes) and blood pressure. Nothing important!
OK, I confess. Fish is on the menu for me. Once a week at most.
You are doing great! I’ve got my husband about 95 perfect there, and I’m so proud of him.
I’ve been to Sydney twice and Melbourne once. Was lucky to work with a few Aussies for a few years and they are some of the nicest, most fun people ever.
mgardener
(2,360 posts)I worry what kind of world my children and grandson will inherit.
Aussie105
(7,920 posts)Two laws of Biology and Nature in action here:
1. Reproduction: Any species will multiply to the full extent resources allow.
Malthus, pre-industrial revolution in the UK, predicted the maximum population would be limited by agricultural production of food.
He hadn't foreseen the ability of humans to shift those limitations, and keep on growing.
2. Succession:
Any species modifies it's environment and makes it LESS suitable for it's own survival.
Case study: Krakatoa, an island, after eruption, was bare rock.
Lichen grew on the bare rock as the dominant life form, lived off minerals in the rock and broke them down into soil.
Grasses grew in the thin soil.
Sun, temperature changes, root action broke the soil down further.
Larger plants developed there.
Today, the original rain forest has returned. complete with insects and vertebrate life.
The original early parts of the succession chain have been largely displaced by the later development of vegetation.
Bad luck if you were a lichen, right?
Prediction:
Climate change is here, has been ever since people discovered fossil fuel was a good substitute for human muscle labour.
We are only starting to see the full effects of that now.
The future?
Anyone's guess. Can we reverse the effects of 2 centuries of modifying the environment?
Or are we doomed to seeing large parts of the planet become uninhabitable by humans?
Anyway, no one claims evolution of life on this planet is always bound to increase in complexity. It may be entering a phase of reversal, simplification of biological complexity of life on this planet. Humans aren't the end point in evolution, just like he dinosaurs were not.
yonder
(10,293 posts)Thanks for getting the ball rolling Atticus.
roamer65
(37,953 posts)Especially the Great Climate Exodus.
Aussie105
(7,920 posts)A place like Las Vegas has no future without a reliable water supply. A future ghost town?
Here in Adelaide we are relying on water from a river, a river that gets overused and is degraded by human activity upstream.
Last drought, the state government committed to building a desalination plant to ensure future water supply.
I'm glad they did.
We are 53 and 57. I expect we'll see people leaving places like FL sooner, rather than later.
roamer65
(37,953 posts)Also violent crime as well.
When people lose hope, they lose it.
Sad, but true.
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)I am 14 years younger and thought the same as you... but I am starting to rethink that...
I thank God that Michigan so far seems to be avoiding most of these climate problems, but much of the country seems to be turning into a world of shit over them...
NickB79
(20,356 posts)Guess I get to see some real hell in my remaining 40 years, eh?
If you need me, I'll be working on my permaculture mini-farm in Minnesota to hand down to my daughter as a lifeboat of sorts. She's only 11. She's gonna need it.
ribrepin
(1,902 posts)I live north of Seattle and went thru an unprecedented heat wave last week. It reached a 108 degrees. That is an unbelievable temp in an area full of trees and greens. My rhododendrons and the evergreens across the street have sunburn. Now we prepare for the inevitable smoke from wild fires. The leading edge in here in the northwest.
I remember a few years ago when the smoke first came in, they said it was a once in a century event. Oh no, smoke was back the next year and every year since.