Armed Militia stand off in Wakefield Ma, my home town

[Fla Dem]

Last edited Sat Jul 3, 2021, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Wakefield, Reading Residents Asked To Shelter In Place As Armed Standoff Closes I-95 In Wakefield


WAKEFIELD (CBS) — Wakefield and Reading residents were asked to shelter in place as Massachusetts State Police deal with a standoff that has shut down Interstate 95 in Wakefield. The highway was closed in both directions between Lynnfield and Stoneham Saturday morning.

Two people were arrested around 6:45 a.m. State Police said they had “several armed persons accounted for at this scene” who were “refusing to comply with orders to provide their information and put down their weapons.”

More.......................

Live Local CBS coverage......
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/07/03/2-arrested-armed-standoff-closed-i-95-wakefield-shelter-in-place/

[marble falls]

1. Light them up. It's time to shut them down.

[WinstonSmith4740]

31. Totally agree!

I really hate feeling this way, but the only way this will stop is when these people get bloody. Right now, they take advantage of the rights that flow from the system they want to destroy. Law enforcement needs to treat these people like the terrorists they are and start shooting. They'll whine like the cowardly little bitches that they are, but it is the only way to stop them and force them back into their damn caves. Only this time, we need to cement the cave opening shut so they can't get out again.

[CrackityJones75]

35. Wrong.

It was handled under the law. They will have their day in court. We are a nation of laws. If YOU are ready to go to war fine. But you are other people to start a war. No thanks.

[WinstonSmith4740]

41. I understand how you feel.

Like I said, I don't like feeling this way. And yes, we are and always have been a nation of laws. It's what made up unique. Under normal times, I'd be right there with you. But we are dealing with seditionists who don't respect the law. They wave the flag and call themselves patriots, but are they? They have no respect for the rule of law, and think that their god Trump should have the final say in what happens, under all circumstances. They think that some day they'll be wearing the boot that's on their neck. They want an emperor, not a president, and as long as they think the emperor is their guy, they don't give a damn about what the law says. These are people that would have killed elected representatives if they had gotten their hands on them. But look at their reaction to one of their own being killed that day. Like I said...whiny little bitches.

Trump is not the end of this. Right now, in the ranks of the Republican party, another Trump is watching and learning. The next one will be smarter. He or she will be just as ego driven, but will learn to hide it. The straight up fascism will be in the background until needed. If this or any other democracy is going to survive, we have to fight fire with fire. We haven't been showing up to the gunfight with a knife...we've been showing up with a book. And they're burning it in front of us.

What they don't seem to realize is the only reason January 6th occured is because TFG didn't call out "the troops". Biden will. Let's see how these "patriots" stand up against the best trained military the world has even seen, instead of outnumbered capital police. My prediction is they turn and run the first time a bullet comes at them.

[CrackityJones75]

46. It is NOT time to take up arms.

It is people like you trying to decide that others should march off to die that scare the living shit out of me. And to be clear marching off to die in a stupid war is only one of the ways we die in your violence fantasy. Innocent bystanders die in wars. People die of starvation. Make no mistake Bout it if we start to gun people down for i fractions like closing down a fucking freeway there WILL be consequences. Do you believe BLM protestors should be gunned down when they close down feeeways too? Do you agree with the laws that have been passed making it ok to run down protestors on the freeway.

Come in people enough with the violence fantasies.

[wnylib]

65. Big difference as far as I can see

between BLM and the Sovereign Moor movement.

I did not know about the Sovereign Moors until now. So I read through the SPLC article about them. If SPLC info is accurate, it is insulting to BLM to be compared with them.

According to SPLC, the Sovereign Moors consist of two separate groups, a small religious group (which denounces the other group) and a bunch of non-organized people who use the sovereignty idea as an ideology for immunity from a host of illegal activities that include financial scams, tax frauds, making and selling their own licenses and citizenship papers, house squatting, filing false liens on properties, engaging in armed confrontations with police (and deliberately provoking them). Individuals operate web sites, but there is no centralized organization.

They are not so much anti government as anti US government. They consider themselves a "government" unto themselves.

Their claim to immunity from US law and opposition to the existence of the US is based on the false premise that Moors are the original inhabitants of the Americas, the true indigenous people, and all Africans are Moors.

As an American with Native American ancestry, I see the indigenous claim of the Sovereign Moors as not only inaccurate, but ludicrously offensive. It's not enough that little white kids put on face paint and run around waving tomahawks as Halloween costumes, or white, adult plastic shamans claim to teach the "secrets of the (name the tribe) for huge fees to gullible New Agers. Now other ethnic groups try to usurp Native American identity to claim immunity for criminal actions. Not the first time in US history, considering the Boston Tea Party.

The Sovereign Moors have, according to SPLC, also at times aligned themselves with criminal gangs, e.g. the Bloods and Latin Kings.

These people are not protesters on behalf of human rights. They are people using an ideology as justification for illegal and violent actions.

[CrackityJones75]

66. Why are you writing tomes about this?

It is NOT time to take up arms, gun anyone down, and get bloody. Just stop.

[wnylib]

68. Where the f did you get the notion that

I advocate "taking up arms"? Do not make false assumptions about me. Just stop.

Read my #48.

[CrackityJones75]

71. I didn't say you said that.

Sorry I didn’t mean to imply you were the one saying that.

Originally how I became involved in this thread is when the calls for gunning people down started.

[wnylib]

69. The tome is because so many posts

on this thread have no idea what the group is.

[CrackityJones75]

72. Yep I agree.

I agree with that. However I never even delved into that at all. The point is that regardless of which group we are talking about, handling these things legally versus through violence is the way to handle it.

I don’t care who it was that was the group is handling it without gunfire is the way it should be handled.

[wnylib]

73. So we both agree that it should be handled

legally, without guns, as I said on my post #48. And it has been.

I would have just posted a link to the SPLC article on the group instead of describing them myself, but I can't copy and paste from my phone.

[CrackityJones75]

74. Yes I agree

Maybe I hit reply to the wrong person? I am not sure because looking back I don’t disagree with what you have said here.

[wnylib]

81. Could be. There were a couple posters

Last edited Sun Jul 4, 2021, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

who were advocating gunfire. I just wasn't one of them.

Peace.

[wnylib]

85. Actually, I feel more pity and sadness

toward the Moors group than anger. I think they are deluded, but it's a sad commentary on a racist society that some people will seek and create an ideology that offers an alternative reality.

But when they cynically use their ideology to cooperate with gangs, illegally arm themselves, and defy laws, then it becomes a legal matter.

[CrackityJones75]

91. Cheers!

And apologies for the mixup

[wnylib]

48. So you are ready and willing to play

into their hands and give them the civil war that they want. That's what their behavior now is all about.

Start a battle with them now and their sympathizers across the country will claim that this is their moment, time to rise up and fight. Innocent lives will be lost.

Handle this as a legal matter instead of going in with guns blazing and their balloon of heroism will deflate.

[sarisataka]

55. Knowing what we know now

Is "light them up" still your preferred course of action?

[Treefrog]

82. Lol!

[rockfordfile]

67. I agree

[TreasonousBastard]

2. "Rise of the Moors"? WTF? Who's bringing in people for training?

[underpants]

8. From another thread. Seems someone's been a preaching on this ($$$) for a while

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2764896

The Southern Poverty Law Center describes the Moorish sovereign citizen movement as “a collection of independent organizations and lone individuals that emerged in the early 1990s as an offshoot of the anti-government sovereign citizens movement, which believes that individual citizens hold sovereignty over, and are independent of, the authority of federal and state governments.” Its roots are based in the Moorish Science Temple of America founded in 1913 by Noble Drew Ali.

Many of the groups hold the belief that there is a 1787 treaty between the United States and Morocco that grants them immunity from U.S. law, the center said. They frequently use the surnames Bey and El.

[Klaralven]

17. Noble Drew Ali

Wallace Fard Muhammad, the founder of Nation of Islam, was previously a prominent member of the Moorish Science Temple of America, where he was known as David Ford-El.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Drew_Ali

[Klaralven]

23. Treaty with Morocco June 28 and July 15, 1786

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1786t.asp

[underpants]

26. Thanks I was going to look it up. I'm guessing they are reading Article 6 as their basis

6.

If any Moor shall bring Citizens of the United States or their Effects to His Majesty, the Citizens shall immediately be set at Liberty and the Effects restored, and in like Manner, if any Moor not a Subject of these Dominions shall make Prize of any of the Citizens of America or their Effects and bring them into any of the Ports of His Majesty, they shall be immediately released, as they will then be considered as under His Majesty's Protection.

[Klaralven]

32. Or possibly article 14

.14. The Commerce with the United States shall be on the same footing as is the Commerce with Spain or as that with the most favored Nation for the time being and their Citizens shall be respected and esteemed and have full Liberty to pass and repass our Country and Sea Ports whenever they please without interruption.

This would have the assumed effect if "their Citizens" is interpreted as "the Citizens of the other country". However, it seems clear that "their" refers to "the United States" so the correct reading would be "and their (United States) Citizens shall be respected and esteemed and have full Liberty to pass and repass our (Morocco) Country and Sea Ports whenever they please without interruption."

[wnylib]

56. I'm not sure about the whole background

on this, but didn't this treaty come about as a result of pirates taking shelter on the Moroccan coast? Do these people think they are land pirates?

[Politicub]

57. So in loony moor logic, if they are soldiers of a sovereign nation, opening fire on U.S. citizens

within our borders would be an act of war.

Not a good look for the moors.

In all seriousness, sovereign citizens are a big headache in the county where I live. There are not many, but they file lots of frivolous lawsuits and harass public officials.

[underpants]

59. They are regulars at foreclosure I hear

Friend of a friend works in foreclosures. Not every day but pretty regularly there’s a sovereign citizen in court. The judges are sick of it and usually shut them down right away from what I understand.

[Blue_true]

75. In other words, Planters doesn't have the nuts market cornered like it hoped. nt

[SharonClark]

9. Weird

from their website...http://www.riseofthemoors.org/

Mission
The main focus of Rise of the Moors is to perform all things relating to and appropriate to portraying the overall history of our ancestors - the Olmecs, Moabites, Canaanites, Hittites etc.; Informing all Moors of their political status here in the Maghreb Al Aqsa (America – Morocco the most extreme west); Enlighten the minds of the fallen Moors, restoring them the their ‘In Full Life,’ ‘In Propria Persona Sui Juris’ status, as opposed to the mentality of a minor who is ‘Civil liter Mortuus’; to promote a collective of Moorish Americans and connecting them to the Rise of the Moors social and economic platform; to promote the use of moral principles and the branches of knowledge dealing with ethical awareness; to encourage all Moorish Americans to believe in the capacity of each other to succeed in business, to encourage, support and provide patronage in our affairs.
​
Our business endeavors will achieve its highest in fulfillment and confidence with the cooperation and patronage of all nationals and especially emphasized whenever possible between other Moorish Americans.

[Thomas Hurt]

16. Just an AA riff on the white supremacist sovereigns like Bundy.

[ancianita]

43. Maybe. More like a major message that white supremacist sovereigns would pay attention to.

4th of July weekend seems timed for that.

[Politicub]

63. It looks like they are a spam cult based on the thing about how *you* can

make $40,000 in one weekend… Just buy the webinar to find out the secret to moorish riches.

[obamanut2012]

70. They are AA sov cits

Raise that fringed flag!

[HAB911]

3. Darwin Award nominees

[Baitball Blogger]

28. Yup. Really, really a bad idea for this period in time.

Read the Room!

(Actually, a bad idea period, but especially bad for this period in time.)

[Takket]

4. didn't comply or put down their weapons?

Why didn't they just shoot them the instant they didn't comply?

That's the procedure, right?

[getagrip_already]

10. one cop, 10 beligerent armed men....

NOT a good time to go hot on the gun.

They usually open fire when it's 4 cops on one suspect who isn't armed.

[Dial H For Hero]

7. You take it wrong. They're Moorish Sovereign Citizens.

[getagrip_already]

6. well, at least they say they aren't anti-government.... ;)

Of course, they don't recognize the gov't, or the authority of the state police, or any laws whatsoever they don't themselves enforce.

You can't be against something that doesn't exist I guess.

Eventually, they will be cold, wet, and hungry and then they will start crying. Todays weather in MA is cold and rainy. They left their cars in a hurry with only what was on their backs. If they can't start afire, they will be very weary warriors.....

It sounds like they are contained in some woods. Shutting down 95 will certainly cause a headache, especially on a holiday weekend.

Happy fourth!

[albacore]

11. It's a black group. Cognitive dissonance for EVERYbody. nt

[Blue_true]

76. Maybe now that some Black people are leaning into the crazy-assed, armed to the teeth

mantra, laws will be passed to rid us of heavily armed nuts roaming about freely.

[albacore]

86. I see (white) militia heads exploding. "Blacks with guns!?!?!?".... nt

[Blue_true]

87. Nah. They will insist that Blacks just hand their guns over without question.

After all, they want a totally different set of laws for themselves.

[PufPuf23]

12. Recently - can't recall where - saw where ex-military sedition-type

saying he was an Army sniper and claiming he could with 25 snipers shut down commercial trucking in the eastern USA.

[Marrah_Goodman]

89. Actually, that probably would work for a while.

Scary thought. That is one big reason these groups need to be infiltrated and watched.

[getagrip_already]

13. it sounds like a visit by nat guard is needed at a training camp in new hampshire.....

That's where they were going. And they weren't likely going to be alone.

[forthemiddle]

14. Two have been arrested

Link to tweet

[mcar]

15. Good gad!

[SharonClark]

18. On Youtube they sound like a cult preparing for the "depression"

But really disorganized
Episode 1 - Conference
Episode 2 - Healing from trauma and toxic relationships
Episode 3 - Moorish Science and Civics
Episode 4 - Coronavirus
Episode 5- EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS
Episode 6 - Ramadan and Nutrition
Episode 7 - Mothering
Episode 8

Episode 4
buy gold, silver, and copper
they're shutting everything down so martial law
US military colonizes everyone everywhere
be prepared
government using coronovirus as a cover for what's really going on
catch rainwater, make suer you have candles
the covid panic will make things worse
they outlaw large groups to control us
covid isn't a new virus
if you look at the back of lightbulbs it says it kills covid
the covid news is 95% lies
do you know anyone with coronovirus? I don't.
Celebrities and NBA players are part of the coronovirus act.
Don't watch tv or the news.
Don't allow anyone to stick anything in your mouth or stick you with anything.
People were find before they were tested.
why is there still soap but no toilet paper
buy food with seeds so you can grow your own food
OHio and OKlahoma and the President (trump) declared a state of emergency and something about habeous corpus
practice self care, dance, sing, walk around outside, don't panic
Bill Gates talking about lowering world population thru the use of birth control is bad
5G causes radiation sickness and vaccines are part of the government plot
Karen Silkwood died of radiation poisoning and it was covered up
Bill Gates's father and mother ran Planned Parenthood - they were monsters.
Bill Pharma gave aids to child by dumping aids in some water
Scientists are dumping viruses into remote areas of the world where it is picked up by mosquitos and spread
Big Pharma is spreading STDs
You can use shuinge to purify your water.
Cilantro, iodine, sea moss, etc, will purify your water.

and on and on

[Klaralven]

20. Moorish Qanon?

Pretty standard list for Qanon.

[SharonClark]

24. With a little less chest-thumping but the same delusions.

[Sapient Donkey]

94. I've been to that part of twitter. I was surprised with the numbers of people

A whole lot of overlap with qanon-types. The internet, for all its good, is soooooo bad.

[Maru Kitteh]

64. Big Pharma is spreading STDs?

They don't know what the S and the T stand for, apparently . . .

[Blue_true]

77. Oh, you missed...

“Big Pharma gave AIDS to a child by dumping AIDS into some water”. Damnnnnnnn, makes me scared to take a drink. I wonder which one of their esteemed scientists discovered that one?

[David__77]

19. Video.

https://m.

[SharonClark]

25. They want protection of federal US laws.

As a self-proclaimed sovereign nation within the US.

[Chainfire]

21. Nuts come in all flavors.

[Dial H For Hero]

22. Update: 9 now in custody.

[underpants]

27. Only 1 Moor left

[AllaN01Bear]

33. good pun up.

[underpants]

58. 😁

[Politicub]

54. Soon there will be no more moors holding up traffic.

[Sapient Donkey]

95. I laughed.

Thank you.

[FailureToCommunicate]

29. Here is another DU thread from earlier today...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142764803

[AllaN01Bear]

30. and they werent shot and or tazed or teargassed or the dogs sent on them?

[TeamProg]

34. GOP, the 'law & order' party... Uh huh.

[Treefrog]

83. You might want to read up on this group.

[Traildogbob]

36. Wow

Lots of criticizing these armed citizens and lots of scared whites. A lot different than a heavily armed bunch of Trump bubbas storming a state capital talking about kidnapping and executing a Governor.
No arrests then, no terrified white people.
This guy sounds intelligent, calm, well spoken and well read. Not like an armed MAGA. Only law they can quote is a few words of the 2nd amendment.
Watch when massive numbers of blacks start buying war toys and dressing up. Gun restrictions will look like voting restrictions…………for black folk.

[LiberatedUSA]

37. No they won't.

The gun lobby wants as many people as possible to buy guns. If more people typically viewed as Democratic voters buy guns, the more they can use the issue to divide us on getting gun legislation passed.

[Traildogbob]

40. I am as left as they come

After Sandy Hook I started with a pistol, then a simple Rifle and a 12 gauge. All I need to protect myself. The damn ammo is freakin expensive. Live in rural WNC and it blows me away at how many of these gubment check dependent white bubbas can fire guns all day, every day.
I wish there was a gun shop here ran by liberals. Every one here has Trump flags, Jesus flags, Back the Blue flags, with tens of bubbas always there like use to hang out at barber shops. Back in Mayberry days.
I will not go in them. There is a stench of rotting brain and if you are masked, you may get shot.

[Wicked Blue]

60. Maybe we need more barber shops to keep them occupied

The situation you have there sounds awful.

I hope it gets better for you.

[Traildogbob]

61. Thanks

Surrounded by literally thousands of acres of mountainous forests. Spent my career in them. Know them all well. Two Labs, one a new puppy, and I do not have to be near the MAGA’s, most are too fat to get where I go. No trails. I am blessed to have that resource right out my door.

[uponit7771]

42. Yes they will, gun lobbies can't beat fear of the other

[sop]

38. One report states the group "ran out of gas" along I-95 on the way to their training camp.

That pretty much says it all. The doofuses didn't even remember to top off the tanks before setting out on their little armed adventure.

[rickford66]

45. The "leader" in the video said they carry gas so they don't have to stop at gas stations.

They were stopped to fill up. Don't sound like doofuses.

[Blue_true]

78. Yeah, that floored me also.

The not ready for prime time revolutionaries. With enemies like that, who needs friends?

[IronLionZion]

39. Weird views being yelled to the cops in this video

[Dial H For Hero]

47. Um....not so much.....

Have you seen pictures of them? White, they ain't.

[Fla Dem]

49. See post 39.

[lonely bird]

50. Humans...

Are prone no matter who they are to simplistic solutions for complex problems. And far too many in this country are as susceptible to charlatans as a dog is to fleas.

Strange times, stressors, fear of change and so on cause knee-jerk unthinking responses.

For every political/economic action there is a reaction of which the magnitude and direction becomes increasingly hard to measure as complexity increases.

[Jon King]

51. They are not white, they are not Trumpers, they are not a militia....

Always important to get the facts before posting stuff.

[Treefrog]

84. But it's so fun to read the posts of the conclusion jumpers!

[malthaussen]

52. Who's got the M-72? A law they can understand. n/t

[iluvtennis]

53. So grateful that law enforcement kept cool heads and followed the law as this could have

easily lead to a bloodbath.

[Blue_true]

79. After reading a little about their escapade,

something in my gut says that a group of clowns like that would not have stood up against a SWAT team. So the bloodbath would have been purely one sided.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

62. There's dudes with guns out in the forest, so we have to shut down the nearby highway?

Given that the 'offense' was 'declining to show the cops their ID's ... that seems extreme.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that's the case in many parts of the USA every day of the year.

Honestly I don't think the cops should have the authority to force people to show their ID unless they're driving, or there's some evidence they're involved in a crime.

[Blue_true]

80. So, you are ok with having armed nuts beside a road you are driving down?

Not me!!!!!

It depends upon what the State Trooper that drove up to the stalled cars saw. The Trooper could have just stopped to see why the cars were stalled, which Troopers regularly do. If the Trooper saw a gun and there was no clear owner, then that Trooper would have been justified to ask for IDs in a state that has pretty strict gun ownership laws like I’ve heard Massachusetts has.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

92. I'm not all that ok with guns period but the fact of the matter is

there's 'armed nuts' near roads I drive down all day, every day.

Most of them are in their houses, but they're still there.

[Blue_true]

93. They are not always stopped on a big road. nt

[uponit7771]

90. +1, something looks off except the over reaction to black people with guns.

[Marrah_Goodman]

88. Glad it ended without bloodshed.

[Sapient Donkey]

96. I wonder if they were travelling legally (even if with arms)

would have they been allowed to continue on to their LARPing festival that they call training if they simply stowed their weapons properly and not insisted on a stand-off.

I suppose that would have went against their entire worldview, though.