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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"If you have a Black friend and you've never discussed racism with them ..."
"If you have a Black friend and you've never discussed racism with them, you don't really have a Black friend. They don't trust you to even have the discussion because you've probably already showed your racism."
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MagickMuffin
(15,936 posts)They have discussed how they have been treated throughout their life time, and those experiences that went with them.
Several of my friends are from Cameroon and Nigeria. So, they might not have had the same experiences as my American friends.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,329 posts)
Elessar Zappa
(13,975 posts)K&R.
mysteryowl
(7,383 posts)
She also says a bit about white people need to have a black friend and it is okay for black people to not have any white friends.
She says, "I'm okay with that..." She is so funny. It is a Netflix special if you want to watch.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Is this the routine where she talked about Trump walking around with toilet paper on his shoe and no one told him?
mysteryowl
(7,383 posts)So hilarious!!! I have watched her comic routine a couple times on Netflix she is so funny!
"You know he is not respected when NO ONE tells him toilet paper is on his shoe! Not even the marines!"
Dreampuff
(778 posts)I have also discussed racism with Native Americans and that is also very enlightening!
wnylib
(21,445 posts)and feelings of some Native Americans, go to a pow wow celebration and read the slogans and comments on plaques and other items for sale in the booths.
Don't get defensive, just try to understand where they're coming from and why.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)I would love to do that, although my mobility is quite limited.
wnylib
(21,445 posts)often open to anyone. I have Native ancestry from my grandmother, but look more European than Native and am not an enrolled tribal member. I have been to Seneca pow wows in my area. Guests are welcomed with gracious hospitality. There are traditional dances, and food, crafts, and jewelry booths. The Seneca Nation hosts the pow wow on their territory, but there are Native people from across the country who attend and have their own booths. The Seneca have a long history of diplomacy and interaction with non Native people.
Most tribal nations are respectful and accommodating of seniors (elders) and people with disabilities.
Each tribal nation has its own traditions so just check with the tribal office about attendance and when a pow wow is being held.
I’ll think about it 
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)We also go to other festivals like cow chip throws and lumberjack festivals.
It’s not always about race. It’s about sharing in a community or interests.
Believe it or not you can find diversity anywhere.
Deep State Witch
(10,425 posts)In the DC area (Waldorf, MD). They've always been very gracious - especially when I admire their beadwork. They are very open to educating people about their culture.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)
FailureToCommunicate
(14,013 posts)Sometimes it don't.
A change is gonna come.
How long we gotta wait?
Movin' on.
Movin' on.
bahboo
(16,337 posts)white guy...musician....ton of black friends. Some I talk about racism with, some I don't. Some I talk sports, women...life...god...wine...etc. Others, I don't. In other words, my friends are my friends. We talk about all kinds of shit. But we're just people to each other. I totally get what you're saying. But we all are who we are...
Best thoughts to all, on this Independence Day for some...
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)not sure what we're supposed to do or say. Used to be easy... Just like you said. Now you are not supposed to just live you're life, treating everyone you know with equal respect, just automatically and instinctively. Think we are supposed to change?
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)I have had seriously intense conversations about it, lighter conversations about it, serious conversations about a lot of things other than it, and no conversations or serious discussions about anything related to it.
People are different, and honestly, a good number of my black friends don't really want to talk about it, just enjoy being around someone who isn't hung up on shit and who they can just be with.
They can read you, and to me, the best you can do is give them what they want/need and don't force anything on them.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)JI7
(89,248 posts)going about their day.
Like a someone that works regularly at the bank, coffee shop, grocery store etc that they say hi to .
And they won't admit it but they think saying hi and smiling at them is enough to show they can't be racist.
DFW
(54,369 posts)Sure, we talked about it from time to time. Our school was in West Philadelphia, so how could we not? But it never was an overpowering subject. If it had been, we never would have sought to have roomed together in college in the first place.
panader0
(25,816 posts)to be my roommate didn't like my long hair (it wasn't even very long yet) and the guy down
the hall didn't like having a black roommate, so we switched. Vic and I became tight friends, double dating.
getting motel rooms on the weekends for us and our girlfriends.
In the evenings in our room, the small group of black guys (BSU) would gather and we listened to records and
drank cheap wine, smoking reefer when we could find it. I told them I wasn't racist, but they soon explained
to me how I was in sub conscious ways. They were right and I learned a lot that year, much more out of
class than in class.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)What was said that explained you were racist in sub-conscious ways. Maybe the same could be said to me. That's why I'd like to know what was said.
panader0
(25,816 posts)It was that I didn't understand what has become known as 'White Privilege".
I got a glimpse of it when I walked down the streets of Salem, Oregon with Vic and people
would slow down, roll down their car window and say"N****r lover" to me. I was shocked,
and began to get an idea what the guys were trying to explain to me. 1968.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Liberals don't understand what it feels like to POC and because of that we are racists? Because we don't ask what it feels like? Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)sammythecat
(3,568 posts)Response to sammythecat (Reply #96)
LakeArenal This message was self-deleted by its author.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)This is one of them.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)and say "it seems" rather than "I know" and somebody is triggered! Triggered about what ffs? Now I owe an apology to someone? This whole mini drama over simple semantics is both bizarre, ridiculous, and a completely unexpected and overblown reaction to absolutely nothing.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It certainly didn't deserve the reaction you got. But such reactions are common whenever race is discussed here ... And it almost always follows the same pattern and gameplan and involves the same people.
I appreciated your response and the fact that the person you directed it to engaged with you, if that's any consolation.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Thanks for sharing it!
speak easy
(9,244 posts)And I'm not racist if I have black friends 
-puke.
Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)
JCMach1 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)Trying to wrap my head around that one. I’m white. Most of my friends and partner are not. We discuss these things all the time. Sure, there are times we hang out and don’t discuss politics or social issues. But, if we’re friends, we’re having the conversations.
Not having those conversations with non-white friends is a foreign concept to me. How does that work?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I have the good fortune of being best friends with the wife. We share all hobbies; love of fishing, going to breweries, gardening and travel. My only 2 lifelong friends live hours away. I’m godfather to both of their kids. We vacation with both yearly including European trips. Love both like a brother. One I’ve been friends with for 42 years. He lives in NY. Me in Florida.
Of course I work with people of color but have a firm rule about not taking personal subjects at work. That said my company takes diversity very seriously so I often bring the subject up with my employees. But not in a friendship way. More in a this is how it’s going to be if you work here kind of way.
We had friends of all types in our twenties, but when you don’t have kids those friendships just peter out once they start having them. Sad in a way, but we understand and accept that. Kids bring you into a different set of friends you meet through them.
I’ll say this. I’m a 54 year old white man from the south. I’d rather BS at a brewery with an African American southern man than a white southern man. I know this from repeated experience. The conversation is not ended early when they bring up conservative shit like many white guys do, automatically assuming I will agree. And I have no patience for it. Once I tell them I’m a social democrat that votes straight ticket Democratic they normally move.
3Hotdogs
(12,374 posts)I don't feel good about it. I don't feel bad about it. It just is.
On the other hand, I don't get to say, "Well, one of my best friends is..."
Bucky
(53,998 posts)I generally abstain from political conversations or intense and intimate conversations (which a discussion about experiencing the business end of racism in America would necessarily be) unless I know I'm on safe ground with the other person.
But you're so right, and I don't think it's just here in the south (in in Houston). There's been times when I was talking with a stranger in the bar and I just gradually get a sense would have some reprehensible political views if we let the dialog drift in that direction. And it becomes immediately uncomfortable to even talk to this person. And invariably it's a white stranger who triggers my spidey senses like that.
It's tiresome. I don't mind chatting with conservatives. It can be good sport. But all too often they turn into having the seathing racial anger composed of distorted neuroses and paranoid delusions. It's the same feeling when you're swimming out into the Gulf and suddenly think about how many sharks might be under you.
summer_in_TX
(2,737 posts)in it is a black friend who is very light skinned, so light skinned I often went for months not thinking of her race as being part of her identity. She was so carefully trying not to cry throughout our book club meeting, keeping her face turned away and looking out a window. She mentioned her sharp fear for her brothers, professional men in their 60s, yet at their age, any age, any black man could be in the same position as George Floyd.
We've spent the last year talking and reading about race. She led a monthly discussion of the history of our small town and its relationship to everyone who is Other. It once was a sundown town. Too often Hispanic kids get marked for ESL classes, even if their first language is English. The high school has a pride club but the school board had a hissy fit (which brought the ACLU to their doors), when a board member wished the students Happy Pride Month with a post with a rainbow colored school logo (which they'd never bothered to trademark and a local Christian business had used with changes on merchandise). Yet the town is very much mixed in their opinions and practices.
We had similar discussions in the LWV of which I'm a board member too. Our board was diverse then and is even more diverse now, and our leadership is the first Latina president and first Black president-elect.
It's been a remarkable year, of pandemic, and heartbreak, of disillusionment, and determination.
drmeow
(5,017 posts)We were in graduate school together - I went to her wedding in Senegal and she came to my wedding in Arizona. For the past 20 years we haven't lived anywhere near each other but we do talk on the phone periodically. As far as I can remember, we've never talked about racism - except I think once when we were talking about her struggle to get a job she complained about something being a barrier and I commented that it was probably an even bigger barrier because she is a black woman who was living in the south at the time. But having a conversation "about racism" - I don't know that we have. Most of our conversations are catching up with what's been going on in our lives since the last time (work, relationships, school when relevant, travel) - not politics and social issues.
Maybe if you've shown yourself to be an ally by your actions, your friend doesn't necessarily want to feel the need to steer the conversation that way if it doesn't naturally go there!
This statement makes a lot of assumptions about the nature of friendship and the nature of relationships.
I've had a 36yrs friendship but race has come up only naturally, thru her questions of me. And her oldest daughter has asked my help and advise - she married a white guy. I've always felt most comfortable with her & her family - no subject has been off-topic with us! Not one! We're both pretty confident old gals. 
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)Trying to wrap my head around that one. I’m white. Most of my friends and partner are not. We discuss these things all the time. Sure, there are times we hang out and don’t discuss politics or social issues. But, if we’re friends, we’re having the conversations.
Not having those conversations with non-white friends is a foreign concept to me. How does that work?
Trueblue Texan
(2,429 posts)…I don’t have enough black friends. Not by my choice. It just hasn’t happened. I invite people I like to events at my house, dance parties,etc. But my black friends just don’t come.I would love to know them better, but it just doesn’t happen. I would hate to think it’s because I’ve shown I’m a racist. I know we are all racists in this culture, but I don’t want to be a a racist and I’m committed to rooting it out in myself. The truth is, there are more black people I’d like to be friends with than white people, but it just hasn’t happened. I don’t know what to do to make it better, but I’m willing.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)That means they trust me to do it. I value that, and I listen because I’m still learning.
MyMission
(1,850 posts)Joys, sorrows, frustrations, concerns, stories and feelings.
I've had several close black friends over the years and we've discussed all of the above, and the subjects of racism, stereotyping, prejudice have also come up many times.
A close friend recently told me that as a light skinned black woman who grew up in Michigan she didn't feel overt racism until she moved here, to the south. She talked about her 2 brothers experiences, as black men, and how she didn't have those experiences growing up even though she was aware of them. She was fearful for the first time during a traffic stop here, feeling overt racism, and how it's different experiencing it first hand. We've had many discussions about racism but she'd never shared that story before.
I grew up in NYC. Over the years I had friends from the neighborhood, friends from public school, Sunday school, girl scouts, friends I worked with or commuted with, or friends I met through other activities. I was always aware there are different types or levels of friends and acquaintances.
I think if I haven't discussed racism with black friends then the friendship isn't that close or deep, yet.
Interestingly, when I've discussed racism with my white friends I sometimes find extreme discomfort on their part. They usually haven't had a real conversation about racism because they don't have any close black friends, or close white friends who feel it's important to discuss.
Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)
Hekate This message was self-deleted by its author.
wnylib
(21,445 posts)with a few Black friends, but in more depth with one particular friend that I was closest with. (Past tense because she passed away a few years ago.)
She was a generation older than me. I first met her when I was a college student. She was on the faculty and was the advisor for the Black student union. A Black student friend introduced us. It was a few years later, when I was working on the same campus, that we became friends.
She had gone to Howard University and we talked about the pros and cons of going to an all Black college. She also had some Native ancestry, and told me one day how glad she was that her Native ancestor had married a Black man and not White. At first it felt like a slap, a put down of my whiteness. But I realized that she was expressing pride in who she was and challenging me to fully recognize it, too.
When she was working on an Underground Railroad project, I told her about a site in my hometown and drove her there to do some research. She invited me to a group at her church that was studying the US constitution. The first week that I went, they were covering the 3/5 clause.
She was active in the civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s in her younger years and had known Medgar Evers. As friends, we didn't just discuss race, but when we did, I learned a lot from listening to her.
Baitball Blogger
(46,703 posts)That's been my experience with so many white conservatives I use to socialize with. They thought we were good, close friends despite the fact that there was this elephant in the room that no one wanted to bring up. So, they cherry picked the friendship, while I grew more convinced each day that the relationship was turning toxic.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)Being old, I remember a time when it was popular for people to said they "didn't see" a person's color. It was something like a badge that identified those advocating a color-blind society. This was one of the things that, as a youngster, made me re-think my belief that adults were all smarter than kids.
Certainly, by the time I was a teenager, and traveling about the northeast on boxing team from the sticks competing against teams from large cities, simply walking through a locker room required the ability to recognize -- and respect -- different colors. Indeed, in that era, there were frequent tensions between groups in those locker rooms. That has changed significantly in the last fifty years, all for the better. Most teams have a variety of fighters, and almost everyone gets along well.
I suspect that a number of white people who haven't discussed racism with their non-white friends allow a sense of discomfort to prevent this type of communication. Our duty is to convince them that it is a bit like sex -- it may feel awkward at first, but in time it proves to be a meaningful pleasure. One becomes more comfortable in a range of settings. For example, I used to enjoy sitting in the hall on Onondaga Territory, listening to residents talking about them darned white people. Why, I never even had the urge to jump up and shout, "But not me! I'm okay!" I do remember one lady looking at me after saying a few harsh and accurate things saying, "Not you Pat -- we don't think of you as white."
Indeed, up until the end of WW1, WASP society did not recognize Irish Catholics as white. Then they did, kind of. But they never asked us. We didn't get to vote on it or anything. While I'd have voted "other," I have no problem admitting that growing up, I heard some of the most racist shit coming from the lips of some of the generation that came before me. I think that, like boxing locker rooms, we have evolved.
Speaking of "evolved" ......my DNA documents that the blood running through my veins matches the DNA of the exclusive group of first settlers in Ireland. They were a relatively light brown skinned people up until somewhere between 8-6500 years ago. But that in no sense means that the Old Sod was Patmos. I'm not saying that was the next island over. (grin)
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)In this theoretical friendship between a black person and a white person: maybe the black person wants to discuss racial bias or racism, but is afraid to mention it.
Maybe it's up to the white person to signal that the subject of racism can be discussed freely, without anger or defensiveness. If the white person doesn't know this and never gives the signal, then the black person perhaps feels that it can't be mentioned.
The feelings of both parties should be considered because they are both material to the friendship. In many more cases the white person is perhaps guilty of being oblivious, rather than outright racist or unfeeling. The white person may not even realize what needs to be done to reach out to the friendship being offered by the black person.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)There is often the perception that it is the responsibility of black people to bring up the issue. There's nothing wrong with a white person initiating the conversation without waiting to get signals or permission from the black person they wish to talk to.
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)... however a lot of white people don't realize that it's up to them to reach out to the black person.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)is for them to assume it's not up to them ...
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)who are white who are not asking their friends who are POC what it's like to live through the horrors of racism then we are guilty of using our white privilege to avoid it?
That's really hard for me to get. First of all, hard for me to understand that someone can automatically know that every POC wants to talk about what they've lived through.
I kind of liken it to being around someone (anyone regardless of color) who you know has had a life-changing experience - death of loved one, divorce, maybe loss of home or livelihood. It always seems natural to wait for that person to raise the subject. It's the only way a listener knows if the person really wants to talk about it.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)and "asking their friends who are POC what it's like to live through the horrors of racism."
For many Black people in America, racism is not an ongoing horrific, traumatic, life-threatening experience. It's just a reality that we deal with every day, like a job or a heavy coat we have to wear.
No one's suggesting you launch into the kind of extreme and rather bizarre conversation you depict. It could be as simple as asking something like: "I've heard some Black people say that racism affects them every day. Do you feel that way?" - and then listening to them without telling them why they're wrong. That's a far cry from asking "what it's like to live through the horrors of racism."
If more people actually had a conversation with some Black people about it, instead of consistently having a defensive, kneejerk reaction and then trying to pick a fight whenever the topic is brought up, they'd better understand it.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)your expectations better.
Oops, then came the attack...? Not sure why that had to be thrown in ??.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I gues that was just until it made you a little uncomfortable.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Of course I haven't read every thread about the subject but it is absolutely the first time I personally have seen any attempt to truly explain. And I find it really sad that it can't be explained to an empathetic liberal audience without including a trashing statement in the same breathe.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)My humble opinion but "having a black friend" is already trouble.
Just have friends. Period.
Edit to add my genuine friends over my life have come in all types. Wealthier, poorer, older, younger, of various skin colors and ethnic backgrounds. It isn't that I don't notice skin color or upbringing. Of course I do. But when it comes to picking friends whether or not we can talk about anything and everything is a prerequisite.
I agree with the author ... sometimes whites think they "have a black friend" and don't. People need to think about why they are "friends" in the first place.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)You always have to say black friend.
Why?
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I don't think there is a rule that you must discuss EVERYTHING with EVERYONE close.
Heck there are lots of topics that aren't even discussed with Husbands and Wives, but they are still husbands and wives.
So I dismiss this gal's notion.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)There's a difference between "discussing EVERYTHING with EVERYONE" and never ever talking about one of the most important things that affects a "friend's" life.
And while husbands and wives don't talk about everything, they damn sure talk about things that matter to their spouse.
You're dismissal of "gal's notion" speaks volumes.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)That speaks volumes.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)and certainly wouldn't dismiss every conversation about race as a conversation about "the same exact topic."
Maybe you should talk to a Black person about this and listen to what they have to say.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)But I am wondering why you feel that you are talking about a monolithic group.
People are unique.
Yes I dismissed a person. Not a group.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)intrinsically self disproving.
Some people value their friendships too much to want to stick knives in them. They know they're good.
We feel that way these days about our conservative friends. We know they're friends here in rural Georgia because, very unlike others who are actively hostile or quietly rejecting here, they ARE friends with us despite the stew of hostility we're all in the middle of. They also voted for Trump/Republicans, if they voted. We've mostly chosen to appreciate them for what we like and respect in them and not to go into that.
It would be much more insightful to say that many friendships could be enlightened if these issues were explored. But we all have our own capabilities and limitations, and revealing just what those are would inevitably damage some friendships.
Btw, what is advocated absolutely would include exploring black racism and hostility and failures of understanding and respect for people of (all) other colors, ethnic groups, religions, etc. Only for those individuals in whom they exist enough to need opening up of course (it's "of course" to me anyway), but racist poisons go all ways. If we're going to lance these boils in hopes it helps, that is required.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)There's always an excuse, isn't there?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)foisting on others a discussion of one's own attitudes in need of improving wpuid not appeal. Even if I really imagined there wasn't anything painful to uncover.
In my case, though, I wouldn't find getting to enlighten others about what I think's wrong with them all that appealing, either. For itself, alone. But also because I do really know that assuming the problem was all on the other race's side would be horribly bigoted in me and invite a very nasty awakening.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)an issue that is an elemental part of their lives, is "foisting on others a discussion of one's own attitudes in need of improving" or "assumes the problem is all on one side."
But it certainly does help explain why Black people probably don't talk to you about race.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Has zero applicability to what Hortensia wrote.
Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #48)
StarfishSaver This message was self-deleted by its author.
Deep State Witch
(10,425 posts)I have a friend that I've known for 30 years who hails from the USVI. I learned a lot about racism through her eyes. Hanging with her has made me a lot more conscious of implicit racism, even in a majority-minority area.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)You been raggin on us for so long about our racism that I can hardly take you seriously anymore.
My BLACK friend’s attitude
about my “ entitlement” is opposite of yours. Of course, my BLACK friend knows me as you don’t. But that
never stops you from pronouncements that are both demeaning and dismissive.
Also my FRIEND has many more labels than black. Many more interests than my white entitlement. She also has a name.
I never refer to her as my black friend, her black husband and their whole black family.
Posting this on a liberal site like this seems counter productive. You either piss us off or stroke your ego. There’s NO WAY to prove a negative like “ I’m not a racist.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And yet here you are telling us all about your "BLACK friend" ...
It seems that anyone so easily triggered that reading a stranger's post on an anonymous discussion board makes them feel "demeaned and dismissed" should probably just put that poster on Ignore.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)I say that because YOU refer to BLACK friends. It’s the fourth word in your subject.
I also don’t capitalize on black either because as I said, it just a label YOU insist we identify.
The word black is here because YOU bring it up constantly in order to dismiss and deflect on folks here when used.
Are you feeling challenged? You put it up for discussion. If we disagree with you we should ignore you. If you want to be ignored put me on ignore. Sounds like pretty one sided to me.
Edit: I won’t have you on ignore.
But sure as heck don’t want you in my
jury. Perhaps you might ignore me or put me on your no jury list. Your ops are easily identifiable even if there are no id’s
uponit7771
(90,335 posts).... most purposefully malicious racist since Andrew Johnson who literally two children away from traveling parents that were brown as a deterrent from coming to America... Shouldn't we have more conversation about America's racism?
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Oh dear, I should have said our “supposed” racism. Maybe implied racism.
I doubt that anyone on DU is one of those 77 million you speak of.
The op isn’t about that. It’s personal.
About our friends and what we discuss with them.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Or do you mean white friend ?
Or do you mean black friend?
Or do you mean BLACK friend?
Or do you mean POC friend?
Parsing has gone way beyond absurd.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)
Polybius
(15,394 posts)I know they are not racist.
Fix The Stupid
(948 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)are silly. No matter what someone's color is.
Fix The Stupid
(948 posts)They can't see it because of their privilege, but very obvious to anyone paying attention.
I miss the old DU when the adults were in charge and nonsense like this would get moved to "creative speculation".
When it's OK for one group or poster to constantly (with EVERY post, mind you) generalize and cast aspersions or foist their own twisted characteristics on an entire group of people, you will always have problems. When one side does it, we are 'supposed to understand' or some other goofy rationale - when the other side does it, it's "RACISM!!! ELEVENTY!!!". It's tiring and counter-productive.
There used to be standards. Not so anymore.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Yeah... We hear you.
Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #77)
Post removed
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)That emoji where someone's heads spinning
Bucky
(53,998 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Bucky
(53,998 posts)"Oh say, Michelle, you're black. Mind if I ask you a couple of questions?"
"Speaking of the Astros, how does it feel to be disproportionately at risk for police violence?"
"Ya know, the thought just popped in my head yesterday that due to 20th century economic expansion and US domination of the global industrial economy in the post-war generation that Jim Crow segregation is a far more significant cause of racial wealth disparity and the perpetuation of slavery in the antebellum period. What are your thoughts, honey?"
"I heard some Black people say that racism affects them every day. Do you feel that way?"
or
"I heard someone say the other day that Black and white people rarely talk about race and racism with each other. That seems to be true with us. Is it something you're comfortable talking about with me?"
or
"I've never really had a reason to fear the police, but I'm learning that many Black people have a completely different feeling about them. What's been your experience?"
Those are just a couple right off the top of my head, but there are many, many ways to open an interesting, enlightening, respectful and mutually beneficial conversation about racism.
Perhaps some white DUers who actually talk to Black people about race could offer you some additional suggestions.
In the meantime, I strongly recommend that you don't try any of the conversation starters in your post if you want to be taken seriously.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Just like every woman had a me-too story when that broke.
We could start to get past this if everyone could acknowledge that it's real and that that they are both affected by and benefit from racist systems. But they're too hung up on clinging to the idea that they are being asked to accept a personal responsibility and guilt for it.
They are being asked to acknowledge and confront and try to change it.
I do not feel a personal sense of responsibility or guilt for racism. I didn't build it. But I can commit to try and help tear it down. We won't get there until we acknowledge it though.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)my DNA so weird to have to proclaim. Don't even have to think about it. So hard to imagine people saying to do what you have done all your existence.
But thanks for expressing the concept so succinctly. Some can help maybe with ideas on trying to convert non-DUers or un-informed people we meet???
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)have never read Letter from Birmingham Jail and it shows
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Just like in the rest of the country. The difference is some people here think that because they're Democrats, they're above it all, have nothing to learn and no room for improvement. And usually the ones who think that are the ones most in need of enlightening but resist it tooth and nail.
electric_blue68
(14,888 posts)at different times through the decades long before George Floyd.
We've sighed, and gotten teary eyed.
Talked about past, and current events. When extra bad stuff is going on (since there's almost something(s) bad going on somewhere(s) ) I try to check in on them specifically besides our usual talks.
They're my friends because our personalities work well enough together, gone through things together, and share passionate interests togrher. Like any other friends - along with this extra layer, aspect.
I also keep reading, and listening to Black people in various media, mediums - as I have for about 50+ years
to keep on learning.
I've done the same kind of learning regarding Asians, Latinx, and Native Americans.
Partly growing up in "The '60's" in NYC in a somewhat mixed neighborhood, being out and about in the city itself doing stuff betond school as well -
not holding yourself away from any group in general you have chances to meet many different people (in certain ways) from you, strike up conversations, and maybe make a new acquaintance, possibly a new friend over time, and sometimes those nearly instant clicking together.
Hekate
(90,671 posts)I only ask because you brought up the topic of race, and I imagined you might be saying something interesting there, and I hadn’t been there in a long time so I dropped in. And you had not been there, from what I could see. (Alas, some of the old-timers are not there either. I miss FrenchieCat to this day.)
So I am curious, and since you’ve given us permission to be curious — at least to those with whom we hope to be friends, you even indicate we ought to express curiosity — I thought I’d ask.
I actually saw a lot of people I interact with all the time, and I have no idea what their ethnicity is, since they don’t tell me. Maybe they’re just interlopers — do you know? It might matter to you, but who am I to say, after all. I’m just a guest when I drop in — but I will say the overall posts going back months kind of cheered me up.
Have a nice day. Or evening.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Hekate
(90,671 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)And always greeted with scorn!
And she's the one generalizing about black people, telling us all black people think the same. She's talking about two people she does not know, and telling one what the other thinks of them! The irony.
maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)"Are you only asking me this because I'm black?" I was, because I respect her opinion, and she has insights I can't have.
Even though I have other Af-Am friends, I haven't engaged them explicitly on race since. My Anti-Racism training reinforced that take: not everyone wants to be a spokesperson. I concentrate on being sincere and deferential to their opinions.
Have I "showed my Racism" to my Af-Am friends? Probably, but if I have, it was through ignorance rather than malice.
Lecia Michelle 11 is painting with a broad brush here. But it's Twitter, so what else is new.
