Can Democrats Stomach A National Voter ID Law To Please Joe Manchin?

[UCmeNdc]

Joe Manchin wants some kind of national voter ID law in exchange for his vote for the For The People Act. Voting and civil rights groups are skeptical.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-manchin-national-voter-id_n_60df8c28e4b03f72964a6889

Democratic party should create the national voter ID system that issues the voter ID to all registered voters for free. No more hodge podge of different IDs to represent voter identification. One national system that is controlled by the federal government. Get ahead of the GOP and say alright if you say voter ID is necessary then this is how the system will function fairly for all voters.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. This Democrat can't.

[Elessar Zappa]

4. It might be necessary

in order to get all the other voter protection that we want.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Voter ID laws are inherently exclusionary and giving the federal government that power is

a mistake. And if people think a national voter ID is a one-to-one for getting HR1 through the Senate, then they aren't paying attention.

[Demsrule86]

18. Well first of all, we can help folks acquire the ID's but if we get nothing, it will be much worse.

[Darwins_Retriever]

20. With popup sites

in underserved served areas. Buses that travel to remote areas such as reservations, small towns ... when congressional campaigns begin the candidates can have voter ID booths.

[Demsrule86]

57. Those are great ideas.

[brush]

21. I've never understood acquiescing to the republican talking point of voter IDs.

It's as if no one has ever done voter reg on a campaign. To get registered to vote one has to show a valid Id—a current driver's license, a passport, a state-issues ID card—to the campaign worker and fill out the registration form and sign it to be registered to vote.

The county/state will send the voter registration card later once the info on the form is certified. At the poll when the newly registered voter goes to vote, the poll worker will look up the voters name on the rolls, which will have a facsimile of his/her signature from the previously signed voter registration form and ask the voter to sign next to that signature. If the signatures don't match, he/she isn't allowed to vote.

My point is, legitimate voters presenting themselves at the polls have already offered up legitimate IDs that have been certified by the county/state long before showing up at polling place.

It's just another republican vote suppression tactic, remember, they try every trick in the book to stop Dems from voting, even this. But if we have to yield to this redundant bs to get voting bills passed, I guess we have to do it. Even Rep. Clyburn has resigned himself to go along with it to get bills passed.

[former9thward]

39. No, that is not a requirement for the federal VRA of 1993

A person can register to vote without providing identification. If they do they are given a federal only ballot and they can't vote for state or local offices. But they can vote for president, senator and House representatives.


https://www.justice.gov/crt/national-voter-registration-act-1993-nvra

[brush]

49. Seriosly? What percentage of voters do that? I'm betting not even one percent.

I'm speaking form years of experience. Both major parties go after voters to get them registered for city, county and state offices as well as federal. The federal offices are just a small part of a typical ballot.

And what in that link you provided is different than what I described? And what in that Act also doesn't state that a voter registered by those provisions has not presented valid identification to vote, which was my point in the first place? You've just proved that people can be lulled into endless and pointless redundancy.

[former9thward]

50. I don't know what the percent is.

But that is why they have federal only ballots in precincts when you go into vote.

[brush]

51. It's endless and pointless redundancy. Even if a voter fills out a federal only registration...

he or she has to have a legitimate ID to present, just as in the procedure I described.

[former9thward]

53. No they don't.

If someone refuses to give id we still have to register them. They are id ed on the poll sheets so that they are just allowed to vote for federal offices. So they get a federal ballot. They do not have to show id to get their ballot in the precinct. For whatever it is worth that is what the dispute in Congress is about for a federal voting law. You may be right that it is a very low percent. I don't know the numbers.

[brush]

54. I did read your link.

[Demsrule86]

56. I have no doubt what you say is true, but given the fact that the Senate is 50 50 and the house

is super close to... thus there is no alternative but to work with Republicans and we still may get nothing. But we should try.

[brush]

58. Agreed. Because of political realities we have to work around this to get done what we want done.

[Demsrule86]

59. We can at least improve the situation...even if we can't fix it permanently at this time.

[Hortensis]

26. Why not? The proposal is a national law requiring ID, not a national ID.

And of course voters have always had to identify themselves to vote. Isn't the devil in what would constitute "allowable alternatives"? I've ID'd to vote with utility bills and never imagined I was oppressed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. No matter who is issuing voter ID, it increases costs and restricts access for millions.

[Hortensis]

32. No. How COULD it increase costs if it basically wrote existing

practices into federal law? It's not like it'd mandate municipalities issue two annual property tax bills, one for voting only, or schools issue two student IDs, one for voting.

As for restricting access, we have always had to identify ourselves to vote. So, those who've always insisted on living off the radar would still not be able to vote, but that wouldn't restrict access to those eligible beyond what has always been.

People are knee-jerking over Manchin's name, but I'd be awfully surprised if this wasn't planned by our Democratic leaders in conjunction with him. It's such a simple and obvious move.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. What existing practices? Each state has its own.

Assembling documents to prove you are who you are for a new ID costs money, time and effort.

those who've always insisted on living off the radar

Requiring a utility bill restricts people who are homeless or in temporary or institutional housing.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. I'd be for it if

it means other essential protections are included. It might be the only way forward.

[Wounded Bear]

3. Wait, I thought it was conservatives who fought this...

[ProudMNDemocrat]

5. But Republicans DO NOT want Democrats to vote!

That is, in their demented thinking, how they win elections. A National Voter ID card goes against their efforts to SUPPRESS the right of citizens to vote.

The Republicans will scream, "But what of State's rights?"

[Effete Snob]

12. A national ID card is perfectly consistent with voter suppression

Go ahead and tell me exactly what is the process for getting one of these cards?

Step by step, just walk me through it. To whom do I have to show what and how? How long does the process take? How is the card delivered?

[Hortensis]

27. No. This would NOT be a national voter ID card.

It would be a LAW requiring voters to provide identification. What's new about that?

The final form would define what ALTERNATIVES to formal picture IDs would be allowable. Manchin likes the utility bills most states have always used.

[Effete Snob]

6. No, it is a stupid idea

It simply creates a bureaucratic mess while solving no actual problem whatsoever.

Dumb idea.

[Rebl2]

10. You are absolutely

right! It would just be a mess.

[Effete Snob]

11. Can you imagine?

....a Republican administration getting their hands on a national agency in charge of determining who can vote? Insane.

[Rebl2]

13. Scary thought

isn’t it

[BGBD]

60. Good news then

because that isn't what they are doing.

The plan doesn't create a national voter ID card or an agency issue and oversee them. It creates a national policy on what counts as a valid voter ID so that Republican state legislatures can't decide on their own.

[Hortensis]

29. How would letting voters use student ID or utility bills create bureaucracy?

[Effete Snob]

41. So, you have seen some kind of draft version of these regulations?

Well, let's see, if someone is not a student and doesn't pay the utilities where they live, then they don't have either of those two things, now do they?

But, from what national ID proposal did you pull these?

I'll play along. What do you do to get this national voter ID with your student ID? Do you mail them somewhere or go to a federal office somewhere?

[Hortensis]

44. Anyone can read about the proposal being discussed

by our reps in congress. To play along, go ahead and start by googling Manchin and "allowable alternatives."

[Effete Snob]

45. I do not find a draft anywhere

All that turns up is news articles, and not a draft of any proposal.

[Hortensis]

46. Okay, maybe watch from the sidelines. That's all we really do, anyway. nt

[Effete Snob]

47. You can read pending legislation on a number of sites

Actual bills, amendments, etc. are all online. Popular press summaries are usually horseshit.

This sounds like delaying bullshit, because there has never been anything approaching a National ID, and without any specific implementation to discuss, then it is not only stupid, but also a waste of time.

It is simply layering on another level of nonsense that is not needed, but will reduce the number of qualified eligible voters.

[Hortensis]

48. If you read about it, you'd have learned this isn't "pending legislation."

You'll be able to follow the conversation after you have. This isn't actually a new event. President Obama was among those who endorsed the idea of Manchin's proposed compromise some 2 weeks ago.

Here's one article among many:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/for-the-people-act-alternative-from-manchin-includes-voter-id-requirement-but-mcconnell-is-still-opposed-01623984411

[abqtommy]

7. If we focus on jailing the reTHUG Fascist Insurrectionist Cultists then we won't have to

please Joe Manchin. At all.

[Girard442]

8. The GOP wants to suppress enough votes to win in 2022 and 2024.

Manchin looks to be in the GOP's pocket. He won't support any national voter ID system that doesn't suppress votes.

[madville]

14. I don't think it's a big deal

I realize there is probably a 98 year old out there who doesn’t have some form of ID but 99.99999% of the US adult population has some form of ID in 2021 so it won’t affect election outcomes. I have 7 different picture IDs in my wallet right now.

I think mostly it’s another issue people have chosen a side on and will refuse to budge on just out of reflex.

[UCmeNdc]

61. The real problem is that the Republicans will say none of your IDs are good enough

Without a standard agreed upon ID, the GOP will just say you cannot vote because your IDs are fake.

Of course your IDs are legitimate, but when a person of color shows up to vote with their seven forms of ID none will be good enough. Then for that day they cannot vote.

After the voting is done the GOP will claim the IDs were good after all. Our mistake, meanwhile the voter does not get a chance to vote and have his or her vote count for that election.

[madville]

62. We have had a photo ID law in FL since 1998

Never seen anyone with valid ID denied their ballot at any precinct I have worked in and the political parties don’t run the polls here. Where is this happening at?

[Bettie]

63. I have one

my driver's license.

Most people have one form of picture ID.

At one time, long ago, I had a student ID, but that was long ago and it wouldn't be accepted for voting these days.

I do need to renew my passport, so that would count once I get it done.

[madville]

65. Student ID is an acceptable form of photo ID in FL

They also take:

Florida driver’s license
Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
United States passport
Debit or credit card
Military identification
Student identification
Retirement center identification
Neighborhood association identification
Public assistance identification
Veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs
License to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06
Employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the federal government, the state, a county, or a municipality

[DFW]

15. Republicans may be mean and evil, but they are not all idiots

They know that in fairly held elections, they are at a distinct disadvantage, and they want to even out that disadvantage by preventing people they presume will vote for Democrats from voting.

They will not support any measure that they think will greatly increase voter participation. More people voting means less Republicans getting elected. They will never support any such measure until what they are offering sounds better to a majority than what Democrats are offering. That's not likely to happen soon, so any law that will increase voter participation will have to be extremely cleverly constructed to give them the impression that they won't suffer from its being enacted. That will have to involve some well-constructed verbal acrobatics.

[Hortensis]

31. Yes. :) It'd be good if they saw something of a win for their "side" in this,

although as you say they're not stupid. But many do believe they want secure elections, not stolen ones.

[StarfishSaver]

38. Requiring ID is not the problem

Requiring ID and then limiting the acceptable IDs to the kind that are difficult and expensive for many people to get while allowing the kind that are much simpler for other people to get is the problem.

I have no problem with requiring ID - IF the acceptable forms of ID are readily available to everyone (e.g., utility bills, bank statements, student IDs, benefits ID cards, etc.).

[rampartc]

16. what other posters say about being a facilitator to voter suppression is true

but i like bringing it up to get the evangelicals riled about the beast. they are totally irrational about "real id."

[BradAllison]

17. Republicans want to control IDs at the state level

This is calling their bluff in a few ways.

I've had debates with right wingers about why they haven't proposed free national ID for voting, and you they say they support it but you can tell they really don't.

[Amishman]

19. Sure, I like it

For a federal voter ID, you'd need a federal voter database.

It kills just about every election fraud argument.

Claiming people are voting in multiple states? Would be caught immediately.

Claiming non-citizens are voting? Nope, a federal database could easily be cross referenced to citizenship records.

Claiming faked ballots? Nope, easy to cross reference voter ref totals, voter turnout records, and ballots counted.

Claiming dead people are voting? Easy to cross reference a federal database with the social security records.

There go their excuses clean or purge inactive voters anymore.

[Progressive Jones]

22. I could, under one condition...

It has massive Federal firearms oversight attached to it.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

23. We have to show ID already and the requirement

Has been there for a long time.

I'd be ok with a voter ID if Everyone got one for free and easily with no barriers to getting it.
And replacing it was no cost or hassles.

[Hortensis]

24. "Require voter ID with allowable alternatives (utility bill, etc.) to prove identity to vote."

THAT is Manchin's current, obviously deliberately nonspecific idea of a voter ID with

"ALLOWABLE ALTERNATIVES."

Of course, voters have to identify themselves. What we don't want, of course, is something that could lead to all Americans being required to carry federal ID. Republicans have also traditionally been vehemently opposed to that as well.

ID with allowable alternatives is what states have always required, probably all of them. When I misplaced my driver's license in CA I grabbed a couple of bills with my address on them. A gentleman last time we voted in person in GA was proudly showing everyone in line his discharge papers from WWII as his ID.

Pending agreement on what alternatives would be, many Dems in congress tentatively support this, including cosponsor Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) and Raphael Warnock, as well as voters rights activists like Stacey Abrams.

AND as Amishman said so well, a formal voter ID requirement would actually add strength to the For the People Act by kicking the Republican leadership's main argument out from under their feet.

[peggysue2]

35. x1000, Hortensis

. . . a formal voter ID requirement would actually add strength to the For the People Act by kicking the Republican leadership's main argument out from under their feet.

Exactly. Squash the faux concern of 'massive illegal voting' by making sure our voters can meet and offer the formally declared ID requirement--including the allowable alternatives--and we've punched the GOP's argument in the nose.

This isn't a losing proposition. This is the way we win.

[Hortensis]

36. "This isn't a losing proposition. This is the way we win." Exactly.

[tirebiter]

25. A utility bill sent to one's residence is used in California

To locate the correct polling station and that’s exactly what Manchin suggested as a for instance.

[Effete Snob]

42. I do mine online, and don't get one sent to me

There are a lot of people who don't have utility bills mailed to them, or who live in a house but whose name is not on the utility bills.

[brooklynite]

30. I have no objection to a National. alter ID requirement.

Provided that it comes with Government ID issued to every citizen.

[GoCubsGo]

33. If the IDs are free and easily available to qualified individuals, yes.

The problem isn't IDs. The problem is having to pay for one. That's the real hold-up, not the IDs, themselves. Requiring an individual to go out and get an ID that has fees attached to attaining it is a poll tax. A free government ID is not.

[Vinca]

37. I think a national voter ID program is something we could overcome. There would be no excuse

for Republicans to pass legislation that does shit like accept gun licenses as proof of ID, but not college ID. A free, national ID with an effort as serious as any we've ever undertaken to get everyone documented would call their bluff. It could be done so the ID could also be used as proof for things like check cashing or proof of ID on applications, etc. It shouldn't be necessary at all, of course, but until we have super majorities we're stuck and we'll never get super majorities if they don't let us vote.

[uponit7771]

52. +1, They'll add some excuses even though this solves little to nothing

[krawhitham]

40. If the ID is free then do it

Something has to be done and we need his vote, if this is the only way to get his vote then do it. It can be tweaked later if we pick up more Senators


If the ID is not free then it a poll tax

[FakeNoose]

43. In my way of thinking, the RWNJ ChumpHumping crazies will be against this

... much more than the liberal progressives.

If the Democratic Party came out with a proposal for National Voter ID cards for EVERYONE, the ChumpHumpers will be immediately against it. They must own the libs, after all.

[Cosmocat]

55. Their inconsistencies and contradictions are mind boggling

basically they just flop around from one fuck wittery to the next based on what some profiteering right wing scumbag is screaming about at any given moment.

[Jedi Guy]

64. I don't see why not. As far as I know, you're required to show an ID to vote here in Canada.

I'm not eligible to vote as I'm not yet a citizen, so I could be wrong. But as I understand it, you have to prove who you are to vote here.

The major argument I usually see against voter ID laws in the States is the cost issue, as it excludes those who can't afford one. I think the last time I renewed my driver's license it was like $25 or somewhere in that neighborhood, so that doesn't seem particularly onerous to me. But for the sake of argument, sure, some people can't afford an extra $25 every 5 years. Okay, so make IDs, whether state or federal, free. There we go.

The second argument I usually see is the, "what about people who don't have ID and therefore can't prove their identity to get a new ID?" Okay, I'll grant you that that's an issue for a tiny, tiny fraction of eligible voters. In that instance, have a workaround of some kind for folks in that situation. I'm not a bureaucrat so I don't know what that'd look like.

The rabid opposition to voter ID laws has always seemed odd to me, since none of the issues with it are insurmountable. If we can put a man on the moon, surely we can manage to provide IDs to all of our citizens.

[Polybius]

66. I don't give a shit

I'll even show my license if necessary.