Proof that Trump was never audited

[Under The Radar]

At Trumps rally in Florida Saturday he said that he didn’t know this stuff was taxable…
If he were ever audited by the IRS, any agent would have highlighted this ‘mistake’ and the recipient of the benefits would have to amend their personal tax return and also pay a penalty.

“What Trump is claiming is that they had no idea this was taxable income to Weisselberg, which is an attempt to argue that they didn’t “willfully” fail to pay taxes.”


https://www.rawstory.com/trump-indictment-2653677740/

[Walleye]

1. Maybe the IRS agent was bribed. Quid pro quo anyone?

[diddlysquat]

2. Or he is lying...

[Walleye]

3. Both, probably

[Under The Radar]

4. Trump claims that he is audited every year.

How lucky would it be to get the same auditor each year?
That would be luckier than a lobster in the Titanic’s kitchen.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

5. Trump quotes from the article...

"I know the details of taxes better than anybody. Better than the greatest C.P.A. I know the details of health care better than most, better than most. And if I didn't, I couldn't have talked all these people into doing ultimately only to be rejected."

With this quote showing that he knew expenses were taxable:

"The tax cut will be, the tax bill, prediction, will be far bigger than anyone imagines. Expensing will be perhaps the greatest of all provisions. Where you can do something, you can buy something. … Piece of equipment. … You can do lots of different things, and you can write it off and expense it in one year. That will be one of the great stimuli in history. You watch. That'll be one of the big. … People don't even talk about expensing, what's the word "expensing." [Inaudible.] One year expensing. Watch the money coming back into the country, it'll be more money than people anticipate."

Somebody toss the orange MOBSTER in jail, please!

Edit: All of this probably explains why he never wanted his tax returns made public. More so than any embarrassment over lies about his wealth.

[Buns_of_Fire]

6. So the all-seeing, all-knowing Master of Business didn't know.

With most people, I would mumble "Bullshit." But since it's Mr. Dumber-Than-Dumb, I could almost buy it. Almost.

[Under The Radar]

9. Ivy League Educated

[WA-03 Democrat]

10. TFG

Doesn’t have a masters. Undergraduate degree only

[Dreampuff]

28. It's pretty evident

That he paid the smart kids to take his tests and do his homework.

[Dream Girl]

36. He is basically a high school grad.

[WA-03 Democrat]

50. with a Bachelors degree

earned or not, it is a full 4 year degree. Yes I know he went to Fordham and transfer late to the University of Penn. He did not attend Wharton. He wants you to think that. It's a critical lie for the stable genius.

Many people don't have the chance, time or smarts to get it. I did and it was more than high school. It was work. I know many people who wished they completed it or started.

It doesn't make him smart but he does have the paper.

[usaf-vet]

39. He had his attorney threaten with suits all schools TFG attended if they released his grades. CON!

[Wounded Bear]

7. Show me the letter from the IRS that notifies him of the audit...

It's a simple thing. Simpler than providing a birth certificate.

If trump had been audited, he would have recieved a letter of notification. He never produced even that, ergo he has been lying all along about being under audit. Fuck this "if" shit. There is on "if." He's not under audit, he's lying.

[doubleplusgood]

52. That IRS letter would be the audit's "Birth Certificate" nt

[gulliver]

8. Maybe the IRS audited the clean set of books (of Trump's two sets)

And maybe that's the reason Trump wasn't revealing his tax returns.

[Under The Radar]

12. Trump spent millions in legal fees keeping his returns secret.

He wouldn’t likely go through that expense just to cover up untaxed fringe benefits.
The NY Times found $500 million in tax fraud, Michael Cohen testified to Congress that he witnessed bank fraud. Deutsche Bank was cooperating with the Southern district
over Trump / Russia money laundering which was shut down by Bill Barr. There is much more to sink Trump and his entire empire for life if there is a prosecutor brave enough to go after it.

[spooky3]

13. Agree we have seen only the tip of the iceberg. Nt

[gulliver]

15. I agree there's more, but these aren't just "untaxed fringe benefits."

That's a false Trump talking point, and we need to keep ourselves free from its influence.

Trump allegedly kept two sets of books, one with and one without the payments. My understanding is that makes it fraud and much more serious than simply failing to withhold taxes. Also, Weisselberg apparently received about half his total take from the Trump operation untaxed.

[Under The Radar]

26. Weisselberg is responsible for paying the tax. That is why he is Indicted not Trump

[gulliver]

27. Well, the little feller just went in front of his gushing rally fans and said...

...(paraphrasing)..."but, but, it was just a company car."

And his poor "no life" rally numbskulls were like..."yeah, Martha, it's just a car, mumble mumble."

Then Trump said (again, all this is paraphrasing), "...and an apartment. The person just needs a place to live...what could be wrong with that?"

And his rally dips were like, "Hmm. Apartment you say? Well, um, yeah, I guess they, um, just needed somewhere to live. Yeah, Martha, the nice salesman was just giving some poor homeless employee a roof over their head. It was kindness, right Martha? That's what I'm thinking. Kindness."

Then Trump said (paraphrasing), "...and paying for college for the person's grandchildren. Who even knows? Do you have to pay taxes on that? I don't know...does anyone?" And you see Trump's little "are they buying this?" pause for sucker smell in the air.

And his rally audience (some of them) seemed like, "Ok, college money for the grandchildren. That seems like a lot of money but, I don't know Martha. That's just...I don't know"

[Under The Radar]

33. I was hit with a very similar situation

My company used to pay my country club bill, as it did all VP and regional managers, until we were audited and each VP was forded to file an amended personal tax return and each of us were hit with a penalty. The company paid nothing.

[StarfishSaver]

20. Ding Ding Ding

This is the answer.

He was audited. But he gave the IRS fake documentation to support the numbers on the returns. That's why he fought tooth and nail to keep his returns from being released - because he knew once those got out, the other entities to which he had submitted other fake documents would realize that nothing matched up.

[RockRaven]

11. The IRS doesn't audit any of the super wealthy, or alleged super wealthy, which is how they and

Repukes want it.

If you have enough money to hire a near infinite supply of lawyers, the IRS leaves you alone because they figure it is a waste of their extremely limited resources (again, the budgetary starvation of their enforcement side is absolutely deliberate).

Think about this: if the IRS was robust, aggressive, and effective at enforcement, the Trump presidency would never have happened. How many people now dead would still be alive today if that were true?

[spooky3]

14. Do you have a citation to support this?

They audit the super wealthy, but not at the rates they should, because of Republican controls and underfunding.

Also audits are typically limited in scope to only certain tax issues flagged as likely to result in change. Auditors’ time is restricted (for “efficiency”) because like all agencies they must work within budgets. So things can slip through cracks.

(I worked for IRS years ago, before budgets were so restricted.)

[RockRaven]

25. Here

https://www.propublica.org/article/earned-income-tax-credit-irs-audit-working-poor
https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich
https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor

[spooky3]

29. None of those articles documents that the wealthy were not, i.e., NEVER audited. They all

argued that lower income people were *more likely* to be audited. There is a BIG difference in these statements.

One legitimate reason for the difference is some lower income people tend to claim things that they aren't entitled to at fairly high rates, e.g., miles driven for work, children they aren't entitled to claim as exemptions. These mistakes can be quickly determined in a low-skill audit. The honest wealthy people, as stated in another post here, pay very good attorneys to know about and claim all legitimate tax breaks for them. Finding deductions or income exclusions that are illegitimate takes many, many hours and some audits come up empty.

I completely support more $ and more training for auditing the super wealthy. I also support changing tax laws to reduce or eliminate some of the ridiculous and inequitable tax breaks the super wealthy receive.

[RockRaven]

42. Oh my!! People using hyperbole on social media! Call the Pedant Police! Call the Grammar Garda!

Call the Literal LEOs!

[spooky3]

44. Relax and use precise and truthful language, and you won't get responses you don't like as much. nt

[StarfishSaver]

22. That's not true

The IRS does indeed audit wealthy people. And when audited, they submit documentation supporting the numbers on their returns.

Contrary to some popular opinions, all wealthy people aren't crooks and criminals. If they provide the backup documentation supporting the information on their returns, they clear the audit. If not, the deductions are disallowed and income/taxes are increased.

But the IRS not an investigatory or law enforcement agency and don't have the resources to dig around to make sure that every document submitted to them is accurate. If the documents appear to be accurate and complete, they are accepted.

A friend of mine is a tax attorney whose practice is limited to a few high wealth clients and she spends most of her time handling their tax returns and dealing with IRS audits. She's as honest as the day is long and she says that while her clients want to pay as few taxes as legally required and expect her to make that happen, they also wouldn't think of lying to the IRS or giving them fake documentation. And, she said, this is fairly standard in her field - crooks like the Trumps are the exception, not the rule.

[spooky3]

30. consistent with my (old) experience, too nt

[PCIntern]

31. I treat a patient whose job is exactly that.

Like any other US investigator he never discusses his work but I do know that the various members of the team meet regularly by video conferencing.

[FakeNoose]

38. Since your friend is honest, I imagine that she's careful to select clients

... who are also honest. I believe there are honest accountants out there and they don't want to waste their time working for cheating clients. Accountants who are good at their jobs don't need to cheat to get by.

[BSdetect]

16. How could any basic tax checking fail to pick up such a glaring point?

[StarfishSaver]

23. They just look at the documents submitted

If they look legitimate and back up the amounts in the return, they're accepted.

Trump's people have no doubt perfected the art of forgery and falsification, so it makes sense that they would look good at face value.

[spooky3]

34. IRS also has procedures to search for excluded income. These are harder

to do.

[StarfishSaver]

17. That would be true IF he disclosed those payments to the IRS

He was probably audited numerous times (but the audits didn't go on for years and years and years, as he claims) but the IRS only looks at the documentation the taxpayer provides. If the documents provided match the tax returns - or if they don't and the returns are corrected - the audit is completed. The IRS doesn't dig around to determine whether the supporting documents are accurate - if they appear legit on their face, they are accepted.

There is no doubt that Trump and his cronies went through a lot of trouble doctoring and creating multiple sets of books and documentation to support whatever he was trying to do - whether it was to avoid paying taxes to the IRS or to get bank loans or insurance policies. Whatever he submitted to each of these entities was surely false, but looked fine. Because no one was comparing the documents, he got away with it (one of the reasons he refused to release his tax returns).

The problem he has now is that someone has ALL (or at least several) of those different sets of books, and the people who have them also have the time, resources and expertise to go through and compare them. And they certainly know that none of these things are like the others. THAT'S what's going to do him in.

[TexasBushwhacker]

18. It's not just that it's taxable income to Weisselberg and his family members

The amount should have been added to his W2 in box 1 as a taxable fringe benefit and the Trump Corporation should have paid the employer's portion of Medicare taxes (because those are paid on ALL box 1 wages; no cap like Social Security). So it's not just Weisselberg who owes money.

There is NO WAY Weisselberg didn't know this. Even if his W2 was understated by omitting the fringe benefits, he is obligated to pay both payroll and income taxes on all of it. He is obligated to notify the IRS when his W2 is wrong, at which time the IRS contacts his employer and asks for a revised W2. Not only that, by understating his true income (and who knows how many other employees they did this with, including Trump's demon spawn) the Trump Corporation filed it fraudulent Quarterly 941s. All of these carry penalties and compounded interest for the employer and the employee. Bring on the RICO charges!

[StarfishSaver]

24. Exactly

Weissenberg isn't just some guy washing cars in the Trump Tower garage. He's the damned CFO! Claiming he didn't know any better ain't gonna work ...

[Baitball Blogger]

19. This is fishy in every direction.

I still don't understand why he was given a pass for so long. Even with the answer that the IRS's budget was cut, he seems like the rilly, rilly big fish that got away.

[PatSeg]

32. I believe there was evidence

that he was audited in the past, just not when he claimed while running for president. With his reputation, you'd think he would have been audited every damn year.

[milestogo]

21. How many times did he say he couldn't share his tax returns because he was being audited?

Many times. But everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie.

[Escurumbele]

35. He is such a liar and such an ignorant that he doesn't understand that ignorance is not a defense

Justice does matter, he, his family and cronies must be held accountable. If these people are not made accountable for their crimes the USA will become a 3rd World country, just like Venezuela, North Korea, etc. When criminals understand they can commit the crimes and no one will care the crime rate will only balloon, it will become more transparent, and they won't care.

[samsingh]

37. that's a great point!

[Tribetime]

40. If I shoot and kill someone can I claim I forgot it was illegal

[Under The Radar]

51. ....and make them tax deductible

[Vinca]

41. Did anyone else notice the facial expressions of the fools behind him when he said that?

I don't think it went over especially well. None of the usual nodding, smiling, rah-rah-rahing when he bragged about not paying his taxes. Is there a slight possibility some of them have figured it out? Their taxes go up when he doesn't pay his. (Not to mention the fact it's unlikely many in that crowd need to worry about their company cars, convenient company apartments or tuition at expensive private schools for their kids.)

[krawhitham]

43. Personal taxes VS corporate taxes, he "claims" his personal taxes are still under audited

[malaise]

45. It's proof that he is lying

but that is normal

[former9thward]

46. You are confusing Trump and the Trump organization

The indictment was against the organization , not Trump. The IRS auditing Trump would have no knowledge of what taxes were being paid or not paid by his organization. They are completely different. All presidents are audited every year. Congress requires the IRS to do that.

The individual tax returns for the President and the Vice President are subject to mandatory review and will be closed directly to the "employee audit reviewer" in Baltimore Technical Services. See IRM 4.2.1.11 (8). The “Other” box in the “Forward to Technical Services” section of Form 3198 must be checked and the examiner should notate “President (or Vice President) Examination; Forward to Baltimore Technical Services.” The examining area will notify the group manager for the Baltimore Technical Services when the return is being shipped. Baltimore Technical Services will provide advance notice to Memphis Centralized Case Processing (CCP), "Miscellaneous Group" , when the return is being closed.

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-008-004

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

47. During a debate with Hillary, T***** said, "I don't pay taxes...

... because I'm smart."

I thought at the time she missed an opportunity to call him out as being one of those rich people who didn't pay their way. Also, if he knew he hadn't paid taxes, why wouldn't he produce his tax returns? I really thought, "But his taxes!" should have been used as the counter-argument to, "But her emails!" Hit him often and hit him hard!

[Ford_Prefect]

48. As any judge will tell you, "Ignorance Of The Law Is No Excuse!"

Trump and his company have specific financial obligations to discharge under NY and US law including correct and accurate assessment, documentation, and payment of taxes. Failure carries significant penalties up to and including prison.

[Cicada]

49. Tax audits focus on limited items, not everything.

Regression equations find certain deductions likely to be incorrect while ignoring other items. A tax audit might focus on two deductions while ignoring fifty others. The IRS will ask for backup for only the two items and ignore everything else.