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I Live In Sweden! (Original Post) UCmeNdc Jul 2021 OP
Yeah. But Dora Duck Dynasty and her husband Bubba are never going to understand that. Scrivener7 Jul 2021 #1
For one thing, they wouldn't be able to READ it. Aristus Jul 2021 #3
Won't work plimsoll Jul 2021 #2
And that's where we WON'T be Sweden Mr. Ected Jul 2021 #7
I read that 22 MILLION guns were sold in the US in 2020. panader0 Jul 2021 #10
+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2021 #33
Normally I'd agree with you but... bluecollar2 Jul 2021 #47
Well, I don't agree with the term practicality LittleGirl Jul 2021 #52
It's not a Hollywood action flick. hunter Jul 2021 #59
Paranoia feeds paranoia. Trust_Reality Jul 2021 #63
True. Buckeye_Democrat Jul 2021 #4
I think that's a big problem with 1st and some 2nd generation KPN Jul 2021 #24
The guy from Vietnam at least expressed... Buckeye_Democrat Jul 2021 #29
I see this a lot with Eastern European immigrants. smirkymonkey Jul 2021 #34
In my dad's case as 1st gen Ukrainian-American he was a Democrat, and mostly liberal. 👍 electric_blue68 Jul 2021 #43
Oh, I was of those waaay earlier (2nd gen)... electric_blue68 Jul 2021 #38
Yes, I live with a couple TexasBushwhacker Jul 2021 #36
That's pretty much how the Vietnamese-American acted. Buckeye_Democrat Jul 2021 #40
Yes it is called liberalism Bev54 Jul 2021 #5
If we can't get blue states to do this, how can we get the nation as a whole to do it? Kaleva Jul 2021 #6
If I don't care about sick leave Demobrat Jul 2021 #8
Wat happens when you're too sick, old or disabled to work? Dream Girl Jul 2021 #9
That doesn't happen Demobrat Jul 2021 #12
They blow their brains out the way my husband did. mnhtnbb Jul 2021 #13
Oh dear. I am so sorry this happened to you. Dream Girl Jul 2021 #25
Thanks. mnhtnbb Jul 2021 #55
!!!!! Demobrat Jul 2021 #26
Thanks. mnhtnbb Jul 2021 #56
woah, how terrible! So sorry. : ( electric_blue68 Jul 2021 #45
Thanks. mnhtnbb Jul 2021 #57
The irony is.... paleotn Jul 2021 #18
But they still have their guns Demobrat Jul 2021 #27
You pretty much nailed it Demobrat Ferrets are Cool Jul 2021 #42
Yep. You know what they say about America don't you? PatrickforB Jul 2021 #62
We are so disgustingly DownriverDem Jul 2021 #11
Oprah said it..the old ideas will just have to die off we are too far gone! vrguy Jul 2021 #14
Agreed. paleotn Jul 2021 #23
Sigh...this is such an Over Generalization. I'm 68. So many, if not all... electric_blue68 Jul 2021 #46
Exactly..Unfortunately, some here need their 5 minutes of self-hate whathehell Jul 2021 #61
Speak for yourself, Downriver whathehell Jul 2021 #60
That does not work though treestar Jul 2021 #66
Yabut...yabut... moondust Jul 2021 #15
Yin and yang, like everywhere else DFW Jul 2021 #16
Last time I was there, the neo-Nazi scene was very out-in-the-open, and there were lots of them. tenderfoot Jul 2021 #22
They're not armed to the teeth like they are in the States DFW Jul 2021 #30
I needed to use the hospital after an accident in Norway FreeState Jul 2021 #28
Somewhat similar, not identical DFW Jul 2021 #32
Healthcare in Sweden Expat.smith93 Jul 2021 #39
Welcome to DU. area51 Jul 2021 #41
Welcome to DU! Would really like to hear more about your experiences. Evolve Dammit Jul 2021 #48
There is much of your post I agree with, though not all DFW Jul 2021 #49
In dark times past, my wife and I were paying $16,000 annually for COBRA coverage... hunter Jul 2021 #65
In Germany, the $35,000 a year quote I got was for "privat" health insurance DFW Jul 2021 #67
welcome to DU gopiscrap Jul 2021 #70
Maybe... DemUnleashed Jul 2021 #17
bUt ThEiR tAxeS aRe HiGh! tenderfoot Jul 2021 #19
Good things, bad things.... paleotn Jul 2021 #20
Cons always accuse Social Democrats as shooting for a utopia, that can never exist LiberalLovinLug Jul 2021 #21
Sounds great, but my wife had to ditch a lifelong Swedish friend who went full QAnon JCMach1 Jul 2021 #31
Big problem to overcome is those who insist we're a republic and not a democracy. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2021 #35
Socialism is government ownership of the means of production Progressive dog Jul 2021 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author ExTex Jul 2021 #44
i've been to denmark twice. it was awesome. i live in milwaukee. built on german socialism. pansypoo53219 Jul 2021 #50
Chicago used downstate Illinois and beyond as their sewer. hunter Jul 2021 #64
we had 'sewer' war early 1900 i guess. 1st socialist mayor + we became #1 in #2 selling compost. pansypoo53219 Jul 2021 #68
Searched around and found Milorgranite... hunter Jul 2021 #69
Well, Sweden is the odd one out there, right? Aussie105 Jul 2021 #51
In America the goal was once to heal sick people. twodogsbarking Jul 2021 #53
The Right Depends On Rampant Stupidity colsohlibgal Jul 2021 #54
The right has been using Faux Noise spewing lies and BS mnhtnbb Jul 2021 #58

plimsoll

(1,671 posts)
2. Won't work
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 02:42 PM
Jul 2021

The people who don't know this already will see the strict gun laws and just know that means they're commies.

Mr. Ected

(9,674 posts)
7. And that's where we WON'T be Sweden
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 03:12 PM
Jul 2021

Baby steps. I would still prefer a gun-toting America with the Swedish reforms instituted than the regressive standard we currently have in place.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
10. I read that 22 MILLION guns were sold in the US in 2020.
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 03:43 PM
Jul 2021

22 fuckin' million in one year. I'll bet that the US has more private ownership of guns than all of the other
countries combined. I don't own a gun, never have, never will.
I'm not afraid. I don't need to strap on a 9 mm to go to the grocery store. I don't worry about the
occasional border crosser. I've lived on my place here, ten miles from Mexico for over forty years.
Never had any trouble. Once a tweaker guy I knew came and stole a saw. I tracked him down,
retrieved my saw and told him to never come back.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
33. +1000
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 06:06 PM
Jul 2021

I will never get the obsession that so many people in this country have with guns. I currently live and have lived in some major U.S. cities, including NYC and I have never once been in a situation where I would have needed a gun.

Why are these people so paranoid?

bluecollar2

(3,622 posts)
47. Normally I'd agree with you but...
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 09:36 PM
Jul 2021

After Hurricane Andrew and subsequent hurricanes, the fact is that the part of Miami-Dade county where I live can go for as long as six weeks without basic services (e.g. electrical power and telephone service)

On a good day, under normal circumstances, it takes the local law enforcement up to 30 minutes to respond to a call...

If you have a better way to protect myself, family members and my property from looting and theft I'm open to suggestions.

It's not paranoia, it's practicality.

LittleGirl

(8,292 posts)
52. Well, I don't agree with the term practicality
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 06:59 AM
Jul 2021

But you do live in Florida. Flor-id-doh
No offense meant.

hunter

(38,338 posts)
59. It's not a Hollywood action flick.
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 12:03 PM
Jul 2021

People vastly overestimate the defensive value of guns.

Even in the hands of supposedly "well-trained" police officers guns turn out to be relatively useless and frequently make bad situations worse.

Once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

I've seen it happen too many times.

I live in a city that's a little rough. When people break into homes here they are often looking for guns.

Posting one of those "Forget the dog, beware of owner" gun signs is like an open invitation to burglars.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,858 posts)
4. True.
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 02:52 PM
Jul 2021

Yet the hard-core brainwashed will probably think it's just a matter of time until it collapses into tyranny.

I had a Vietnamese-American coworker who could never seem to separate the economic from the political, after he escaped Saigon shortly after the North Vietnamese took over.

He was an obstinate jackass, and racist too, the more that I remember him in hindsight.

KPN

(15,668 posts)
24. I think that's a big problem with 1st and some 2nd generation
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 05:12 PM
Jul 2021

immigrants here in the US. They left political/economic systems partly, if not wholly, to get away from those systems. There are no distinctions to labels — like socialism — so they draw from their own experience in defining those labels. They don’t see the distinctions.

Add to that the GOP villainization of anything that economically benefits the average American as “socialism/communism” and their experience-based perception is reinforced to the degree that they vote against their own economic interests.

I say this because of talked with some first and 2nd generation immigrants who are deadest against “socialism” but when I drill down into their concerns they strike me as opportunity and upward mobility related, I.e., strength and breadth of the economy they came from. They tend to label their interest more generally as “freedom” which the GOP also does an incredible job of capitalizing on.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,858 posts)
29. The guy from Vietnam at least expressed...
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 05:44 PM
Jul 2021

... some disappointment in this country, saying that he grew up in Saigon hearing all kinds of incredible exaggerations of the luxuries and privileges experienced by everyone in the USA. Instead, he was immediately working hard at some textile manufacturer for little pay as he taught himself English.

But anytime he even heard the word "socialism", he automatically equated it with anti-democratic tyranny. No counter-examples, like in Canada or Europe, could shake him out of it.

He had some interesting stories, though. His motorized boat that departed Vietnam landed in Indonesia, and he was detained there for many months. The detainees had to form groups of four people who had to share a bag of rice and beans to sustain them for several days at a time, but he chose only small children in his group (somehow) since they wouldn't eat as much! He saw others who grouped-up with other adults that they knew, but they were later screaming out with pangs of hunger according to him. Any packages that were mailed to him from family, which referenced the included food and other goodies in the enclosed letter, had nothing but the letter inside when he got them. His captors obviously took everything else.

He was a practical joker, and he'd often look at me with a smile whenever he'd demonstrate the incredible stupidity of our co-workers. Like one time someone asked him, "How the hell did you get to this country, anyway?" He replied, "I swim! I swim across the Pacific Ocean! I'm a #1 swimmer, better than gold medal in the Olympics!" Then he'd smile at my shocked face as some people replied, "Really?!" and the like.

Then he'd tell them honestly that he was one of the Vietnamese boat people, with yet another dummy interrupting him to say, "Oh, I know about them from the news a few years back! So you landed in Florida, right?"

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
34. I see this a lot with Eastern European immigrants.
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 06:10 PM
Jul 2021

And many South Americans as well. They are just so dead set against anything that might even be perceived as socialist so they often tend to gravitate toward the hard right. For some reason they also tend to be racist as well.

electric_blue68

(14,967 posts)
38. Oh, I was of those waaay earlier (2nd gen)...
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 07:49 PM
Jul 2021

OK, so first in the mid 60's it was "better dead, than Red" particularly influenced by one of my good friends who's parents escaped Fidel's takeover. I was 12-ish.

I guess I'd occasionally hear the phrase "Soviet Socialist" country. I think I partly registered it. At some point like by college which was in an area in NYC where a fair amount Leftists suddenly switched to being Rw'rs in the early '70s.
Dour-faced Socialist Workers Party supporters/members would be in our college's big hallway, and around the Plaza we were right across from - hawking their newspaper. I had very little to no interest at all.

I guess somewhen in my 30's I started hearing about Democratic Socialism in the Nordic countries vs political parties in much of Western Europe that were just called Socialist.

I think maybe it's not a bad thing, and maybe we could apply more of it here but for a solid minority
of RW'rs.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,228 posts)
36. Yes, I live with a couple
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 06:46 PM
Jul 2021

The husband came here as a refugee from Communist Romania. He thinks all Democrats are commies and has zero sympathy for any non-white person who comes here as an economic refugee. He's okay with Latinos mowing his lawn and cleaning his pool though.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,858 posts)
40. That's pretty much how the Vietnamese-American acted.
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 08:09 PM
Jul 2021

He was a bright and educated guy in many ways, and he often made me laugh with his jokes, but in other ways he was obstinately defiant of evidence and very right-wing.

There was later an Ahiska Turk who worked there, a refugee from Russia during the George Dumbya Bush years. He absolutely despised her. He was especially angry about the government aid her family had received after being relocated here. He exclaimed, "Mudda fuggas! Nobody help me when I move here!" (His English wasn't the best, but it was mostly easy to understand.)

He'd regularly harass her in the break room about her refusal to eat pork, which she'd mostly ignore because he was often treated like an ignorant person who just couldn't know any better. Yet I knew otherwise, in terms of his general knowledge and intelligence despite his less than ideal English-speaking skills.

I won't go into some of the racist stuff he said to me on this DU board. He eventually stopped doing it, around me at least. Or maybe I actually improved him in that way?

Kaleva

(36,371 posts)
6. If we can't get blue states to do this, how can we get the nation as a whole to do it?
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 03:04 PM
Jul 2021

Hell, Vermont and New Hampshire don't even require gun owners to have a permit in order to conceal carry.

Demobrat

(9,006 posts)
8. If I don't care about sick leave
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 03:22 PM
Jul 2021

because I work under the table, don’t care about maternity leave because I’m a male, don’t worry about hospital bills because I wouldn’t pay them anyway, and my guns are all I have to make me feel like a man, how does this work for me?

mnhtnbb

(31,409 posts)
55. Thanks.
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 11:55 AM
Jul 2021

We were separated at the time.

He had been talking suicide for a long time--apparently--to our sons. None of us were surprised, but he did end up choosing a violent way to go. If it had been me, I'd have washed down a bottle of pills with a good Scotch while listening to wonderful music.

paleotn

(17,990 posts)
18. The irony is....
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 04:54 PM
Jul 2021

many of those macho guys I've heard say such things work in trades that wear out their bodies by 60. Sometimes earlier than that.

PatrickforB

(14,599 posts)
62. Yep. You know what they say about America don't you?
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 01:54 PM
Jul 2021

Great place to live...

Unless you are old, poor, sick, or different.

DownriverDem

(6,232 posts)
11. We are so disgustingly
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 03:44 PM
Jul 2021

selfish and ignorant. No wonder young folks tell us they are waiting for many of us us to die.

electric_blue68

(14,967 posts)
46. Sigh...this is such an Over Generalization. I'm 68. So many, if not all...
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 09:18 PM
Jul 2021

of my friends have been, are center-left, liberal or progressives.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
66. That does not work though
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 06:14 PM
Jul 2021

according to the late 60s, this ought to be a liberal paradise.

They will get more conservative too.

moondust

(20,017 posts)
15. Yabut...yabut...
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 04:25 PM
Jul 2021

how many multibillionaires do they have? That's what's important! It's all that matters!

DFW

(54,451 posts)
16. Yin and yang, like everywhere else
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 04:26 PM
Jul 2021

I was praising their hospital system to a Swedish friend once, and she said, „men man måste vara nästan död förrän man kommer i sjukhuset!“ i.e. you have go be nearly dead before they let you into the hospital. (Yes, I‘m close to fluent, but it‘s really an easy language to learn)

Last time I was there, the neo-Nazi scene was very out-in-the-open, and there were lots of them. It‘s not a paradise I‘d want to have to live in. As one who appreciates humor, it‘s a country that could use more of it.

tenderfoot

(8,438 posts)
22. Last time I was there, the neo-Nazi scene was very out-in-the-open, and there were lots of them.
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 05:01 PM
Jul 2021

Sounds just like Washington state or Idaho.

DFW

(54,451 posts)
30. They're not armed to the teeth like they are in the States
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 05:53 PM
Jul 2021

But they are often serious alkies, and get into brawls with tire chains and the like. Like most of western Europe, their "tolerance" toward all foreigners, regardless of their obvious intentions, made their truly good-hearted immigrants get lumped in with organized crime gangs that saw a golden opportunity--easy targets for a radical right that Sweden really could easily have gotten away with not giving birth to or nurturing.

FreeState

(10,585 posts)
28. I needed to use the hospital after an accident in Norway
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 05:37 PM
Jul 2021

I had whiplash was all. I was in and out quicker than the US system. I was no where near dead. It cost me nothing.

While Norway is different than Sweden in many regards my understanding was their approach to healthcare was similar.

DFW

(54,451 posts)
32. Somewhat similar, not identical
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 06:01 PM
Jul 2021

Emergency rooms aren't the same as needing scheduled in-patient care such as surgery or a stay. I got emergency care on occasion in Germany, too. The bill in the thousands was not long in coming, either.

I was referring to what average Swedes go through, not a visitor with an immediate care need. Norway is 1.) not an EU member, and 2.) awash in wealth with its North Sea Oil. If there's anyplace in Europe where the natives have it good, it is the non-EU members of Norway and Switzerland. It is expensive as all hell to visit or live there, but they have small populations, healthy economies and budgets, and they don't have wait for the cumbersome bureaucracy of the EU in Brussels to give them permission to call an apple an apple (Denmark almost refused to join on that issue alone).

Expat.smith93

(1 post)
39. Healthcare in Sweden
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 07:59 PM
Jul 2021

I have lived in Sweden for over 20 years and I have even spent time in Norway where we have good friends that live there. It is doubtful that Being an EU member has any bearing on the quality of healthcare in the countries you mentioned. Also, It would be difficult to argue that Norway is less bureaucratic than other EU countries. That is laughable. And The apple, or cucumber example is a huge cliche used again and again by opponents of the EU. To be sure, the EU has a lot of short comings, but nevertheless has fulfilled its original purpose, which is "a peace project". talked about way too little in my opinion. Also. I do not believe it to be a stretch to claim that Most people in Europe think about the EU about as often as Americans think about NAFTA, which is almost never.
As far as healthcare, it is pretty well established that one thing that all western countries have in common is that they are equally critical of their own respective healthcare systems. Presumably because of its importance and the need to keep it improving. When Americans ask me about the healthcare here (they seldom do), I always give them an honest answer. I am highly critical and think there is lots of room for improvement. But here is the thing, I would never ever trade for the American system. Never. And I am speaking from the point of view of a chronically ill individual who spends a lot of time at the hospital. In fact, Being in America in my condition would be my biggest nightmare.
There is a lot to unpack in your posts DWF. I offer here a starter.
Glad to hear you appreciate humor, we all can use more of it.


DFW

(54,451 posts)
49. There is much of your post I agree with, though not all
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 10:27 PM
Jul 2021

If you have a chronic condition, I agree, you are better off somewhere where insurance will take care of you. In Dallas, my employer's insurance blows you off if you submit bills from outside the country, as I do, but our people in Dallas enjoy good coverage, including visual aid, not typical. My wife is a retired German social worker, and she worked with some of the several hundred thousand Geramns without health insurance. Not all countries in Europe offer comprehensive coverage.

The original idea behind the EU, i.e. Adenauer and DeGaulle getting together to figure out how to make sure France and Germany never fought another war against each other, was indeed an inspiration. Too bad it degenerated into a bureaucratic nightmare so profound, it made a Brexit campaign not only plausible, but viable. It goes well beyond Danish apples. The notion of loading the whole EU parliament into trucks (and the members and support staff into first class travel) between Brussels and Strasbourg once for a week of Strasbourg's (admittedly great) food and hotels every month is a ridiculous extravagance the EU could manange to exist without. The French built a hugely expensive EU Parliament building in Strasbourg although there was one in Brussels, and so they insisted it be used. A few hundred million Euros a month go for this trek, and guess who pays for it? If you live in Sweden, then you and I both do.

As for the EU, maybe the attitude you claim (that the citizens never think about it) is prevalent in Sweden. However, in the countries I frequent most (Germany, where I live, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, and non-EU Switzerland), it is a subject of constant discussion. The Germans are incensed over their taxes helping prop up fascist-trending Poland and Hungary. They also are furious that the EU let in Romania and Bulgaria, thereby letting in a flood of organized crime. The idea was to furnish a pool of cheap labor in eastern Europe for a few big EU companies in the west. Just ask Nokia how closing their huge plant in Germany and relocating to Romania worked out (it didn't--they soon closed Romania and moved to China, although most of the 4000 Germans formerly employed by Nokia never got their jobs back). Kiitos, Suomi! My colleagues in Switzerland are dead set against their country joining the EU, and furious with their government for joining Schengen. I speak the languages of all countries I frequently work in, including Dutch, Swiss German and Catalan. I don't get these impressions off of web sites written by people I don't know, but rather from real live people . Taxi drivers, waiters, cops, customs officials, teachers, and a lot of etc.

Both the French and the Germans ARE grateful that the notion of another war between the two now indeed seems unthinkable, due to the nearly full economic integration of the two. They are not thrilled with all the baggage that has been added onto Adenauer's and DeGaulle's original inspiration.

If I were covered by Swedish health insurance, I wouldn't trade it for the US system, either. My wife is a German citizen and a two time cancer survivor. She wouldn't trade her health coverage for the USA, either. But when I moved permanently to Germany, I was told that with my pre-existing conditions (heart issues) and US employer, it would cost me €30,000, or about $35,000, post-tax, per year for health insurance in Germany, and that was ten years ago. If I have anything that looks serious, I fly back to the USA and have it done there, where my insurance picks up most of it. Even if the procedure costs a third in Germany, the Americans categorically refuse to cover it, like the bad guys in a John Grisham novel.

For the record, our airport code is DFW (Dallas/Fort Worth). If there is a DWF, I've never flown in or out of there

Hälsningar från Truro, Massachusetts (we all need a break, at least once a year).

hunter

(38,338 posts)
65. In dark times past, my wife and I were paying $16,000 annually for COBRA coverage...
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 06:07 PM
Jul 2021

... that didn't cover everything.

That COBRA reached its end in the midst of my wife's chemo.

She was accepted to our state's "high risk" pool just in time, a matter of days before her next chemo.

I was uninsurable at any price.

We bought a separate health insurance policy for our children.

We almost lost our house, torn between our mortgage and prescription meds we had to fight for.

The "health care system" in the U.S.A. still sucks but maybe a little less with Obamacare.

Some of my ancestors ended up in the U.S.A. because Sweden wanted them dead. Others ended up here because England wanted them dead. Authoritarian Lutherans and Anglicans didn't like my ancestors.

Anyways, how many young people think, "Hey, I'm going to emigrate to a nation where some random shit-falling-out-of-the-sky health care problem isn't likely to bankrupt me?"

None. When we are young we act as if we are immortal.




DFW

(54,451 posts)
67. In Germany, the $35,000 a year quote I got was for "privat" health insurance
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 06:58 PM
Jul 2021

That basically means you pay up front for everything, then send the bill to the insurance company, who can decide what they want to cover, and what they don't want to cover. My employer is in the USA, and I am paid there, so I didn't qualify for anything else in Germany anyway. Dentistry is out from the start. In other words, you pays yer euros and you takes yer chances.

My wife, a German citizen working for a German employer, was covered by the second class "Kassenpatient" system, which, while it means longer waits and no single rooms, at least it covers everything, so when she had her two battles with cancer (first time at age 49), all of it was fully covered while she was working. I had to pay about $650 a month to insure her from the time she retired at age 60 to the time she turned 65, and the German version of Medicare kicked in. That paid off, though, since at age 64, she was hit with a rare cancer called "the murderer" in Germany, because it is almost never discovered until it is too late to save the patient. She was that one case in 10,000 that was discovered in its initial stage (quite by accident), and was saved. She bounced back to the point where, during a subsequent visit to her gynecologist, a new receptionist called her to the desk and said she had made an error when filling in her date of birth. My wife asked what error she had made. The receptionist told her her year of birth was wrong, because for the date she filled in to be correct, she would have to be 64 years old. My wife told her, "I AM 64 years old!" The receptionist just said "wow," and marveled at the shape she was in. If her cancer had been allowed to progress a few months more before being detected, she would have been dead instead.

DemUnleashed

(633 posts)
17. Maybe...
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 04:32 PM
Jul 2021

Maybe let's get the word 'socialism' out of there! Even calling it democratic socialism, doesn't help. What we're talking about is a different kind of socialism so let's give it a different name. Maybe call it 'Protectionism.' I don't know....maybe that's not a good name but we need a name that tells republicans we're not talking about Venezuelan style socialism. We're talking Scandinavian style. And this idea would work even better here because we have way more wealthy corporations and billionaires/millionaires than they do in the Scandinavian countries so this could happen much more painlessly for us here if they would just pay their fair share!

But definitely take the 'socialism' name out of it! Republicans love to fool their base by throwing that word at them and making them feel that democrats want Venezuelan style socialism!

Republicans are great at distorting the meaning of our messages. Do 'Black Lives Matter' and 'Defund The Police' ring a bell??!!!

paleotn

(17,990 posts)
20. Good things, bad things....
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 04:57 PM
Jul 2021

They royally screwed the pooch on Covid. And then refused to admit the obvious. Probably still do.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,178 posts)
21. Cons always accuse Social Democrats as shooting for a utopia, that can never exist
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 05:01 PM
Jul 2021

Well....

We may not ever achieve utopia, but this seems a lot closer to living in a utopia than it isn't.

Just the 5 weeks paid leave annually would help with mental illness in the US on its own. And the only western country that has no maternity leave laws, cries about "family values", even when other countries allow up to a year to care for their newborn baby.

Parents of both sexes are entitled to 480 days (16 months) of paid parental leave at about 80% of their salary. Divided between them, but the father must take at least 90 of those days for himself.

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
31. Sounds great, but my wife had to ditch a lifelong Swedish friend who went full QAnon
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 06:01 PM
Jul 2021

In Sweden....


In freaking Sweden...

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,161 posts)
35. Big problem to overcome is those who insist we're a republic and not a democracy.
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 06:32 PM
Jul 2021

Last edited Mon Jul 5, 2021, 09:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I believe the mission statement of the Heritage Foundation listed so far to the right, that no argument can be won on facts.

"The Heritage Foundation was founded on February 16, 1973, by Paul Weyrich, Edwin Feulner, and Joseph Coors. Growing out of the new business activist movement inspired by the Powell Memorandum, discontent with Richard Nixon's embrace of the "liberal consensus" and the nonpolemical, cautious nature of existing think tanks, Weyrich and Feulner sought to create a version of the Brookings Institution that advanced conservative activism."


Brookings had been instituted in 1916. And has never lurched to the left as the neo-fascists marched determinedly rightward to counter democracy and the sacrifices of every veteran across nearly 2 and a half centuries. Such a young country to fall by blind hatred. War seems inevitable. They want a hot war. We don't. Can Pacifism defeat Fascism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation?wprov=sfla1

Progressive dog

(6,922 posts)
37. Socialism is government ownership of the means of production
Mon Jul 5, 2021, 07:38 PM
Jul 2021

and Sweden even has subways and 10% of schools run by capitalists. Sweden used to be closer to socialist and they used to be much poorer.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-schools-insight-idUSBRE9B905620131210

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - When one of the biggest private education firms in Sweden went bankrupt earlier this year, it left 11,000 students in the lurch and made Stockholm rethink its pioneering market reform of the state schools system.

That is from 8 years ago.

This is from wikipedia
Prior to the 1990s, there were only a handful of private schools in Sweden, mostly tuition-funded boarding schools, whereof Sigtunaskolan and Lundsbergs skola are the most well known. A major education reform in 1992 allowed privately run schools offering primary or secondary education to receive public funding for each student, at a level similar to what public schools receive. These are called "independent schools" (friskolor), and in 2008 there were around 900 of them.[79]

The "independent schools", similar to charter schools in the United States or academies in the United Kingdom, are funded with public money (skolpeng) from the local municipality, based on the number of pupils they have enrolled, in the same way Swedish public schools are. Consequently, they are not allowed to discriminate or require admission examinations, nor are they allowed to charge the students any additional fees. They are, however, allowed to accept private donations. Regional economic differences directly affect how much money each municipality can provide per pupil.[80]

Anyone can start an independent for-profit school, or a chain of such schools, in Sweden. Many of them offer an alternate pedagogy (such as Montessori), or a foreign/international, religious or special needs (such as hearing-impaired) profile. There are also several secondary schools with an elite sports profile. Internationella Engelska Skolan and Kunskapsskolan are the two largest "independent school" chains. In 2008, more than 10% of Swedish pupils were enrolled independent schools.[81][82]
Opinions

Response to UCmeNdc (Original post)

pansypoo53219

(21,004 posts)
50. i've been to denmark twice. it was awesome. i live in milwaukee. built on german socialism.
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 12:07 AM
Jul 2021

needless to say we have sewers + chicago used their river.........

hunter

(38,338 posts)
64. Chicago used downstate Illinois and beyond as their sewer.
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 04:31 PM
Jul 2021

Chicago gets its water from Lake Michigan.

Dumping sewage into their drinking water wasn't working out so they reversed the flow of the Chicago River into the Des Plaines river, which flows into the Illinois River, on down to the Mississippi.



In the bad old days people believed rivers could magically clean sewage and they even created fancy formulas for calculating how many miles of river it took to clean up a city's sewage based on population, a number that often came fancifully close to the distance from the next major city downstream.

Here in the 21st century we have the technology to make potable water out of sewage. When I flush the toilet some of that water is going to get back to me.

Chicago isn't treating their sewage to quite that extent yet, you wouldn't want to drink it, but the waste water they send south isn't anywhere near as toxic as it used to be.

I'm not familiar with the history of Milwaukee sewerage.

pansypoo53219

(21,004 posts)
68. we had 'sewer' war early 1900 i guess. 1st socialist mayor + we became #1 in #2 selling compost.
Wed Jul 7, 2021, 06:36 PM
Jul 2021

i saw road construction along the city river in the 90's. wood sewer pipe.

hunter

(38,338 posts)
69. Searched around and found Milorgranite...
Wed Jul 7, 2021, 11:06 PM
Jul 2021
Milorganite's roots began in 1911, when local socialist politicians were elected on a platform calling for construction of a wastewater treatment plant to protect against water borne pathogens. As raising taxes for public health was relatively controversial in the early 1900s, producing an organic fertilizer as a means of partially offsetting its operating cost was proposed. With the help of researchers in the College of Agriculture at the University of Wisconsin, the use of waste solids in the form of activated sludge as a source of fertilizer had been developed in the early 20th century. Experiments showed that heat-dried activated sludge pellets "compared favorably with standard organic materials such as dried blood, tankage, fish scrap, and cottonseed meal."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorganite


Thanks!

Aussie105

(5,456 posts)
51. Well, Sweden is the odd one out there, right?
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 01:49 AM
Jul 2021

Oh wait!
Similar in the UK, Australia, Germany, New Zealand, and others.

Maybe America is the odd one out?

twodogsbarking

(9,853 posts)
53. In America the goal was once to heal sick people.
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 08:16 AM
Jul 2021

Now the goal is to drain every dollar from sick people. If there is a God I doubt she would bless America.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
54. The Right Depends On Rampant Stupidity
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 09:06 AM
Jul 2021

Socialism does not equal Autocracy. Democracy with socialism is a winner. The people are free to vote it out but why would they?

Republicans here depend on finding masses of suckers who they manipulate with scare tactics.

Well they have them now, people who aren’t good at discerning nuance, many full on Nazis.

mnhtnbb

(31,409 posts)
58. The right has been using Faux Noise spewing lies and BS
Tue Jul 6, 2021, 12:00 PM
Jul 2021

for what? about 25 years? Add in Limbaugh--who started the right wing crap on the radio before that--and people who listen to that stuff have been brainwashed for years and years.

We're in a helluva' mess now in this country.

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