General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"America Will Never Be A Socialist Country." How Often Has Your Head Exploded Over This Trope?
You've heard everyone use it, from the Orange Turd himself, to Abigail Spanberger (D-Va). The word 'socialism' has been used to bludgeon progressive politicians for nearly a century now, and I'm getting sick of it. If I love Bernie Sanders for anything, it was his refusal to RUN AWAY from the word. Something which takes half the power out of using it as a weapon.
But even this isn't the truth. The truth is that BOTH Sweden and the United States are MIXED ECONOMIES. A mixture of free market (not capitalism, which is different)...a mixture of free market venture, AND PUBLIC ventures. The only difference between the two is deciding where the line should be drawn between private and public ventures.
In Sweden they draw the line for things that should be public around healthcare, universities, and daycare. In the United States, the line for things that should be public INCLUDES universities, but NOT healthcare (more or less), and daycare. But the United States still includes plenty of PUBLIC programs, or we wouldn't have a two trillion dollar a year budget.
The idea that the earth will crack open, all hell will break loose, and we'll all start reciting from Mao's little red book if we suddenly decide that healthcare and daycare should be included in the PUBLIC column, instead of the private column is bullshit, and needs to be called out as such.
They tried to tell us that's what would happen if the United States ever adopted MEDICARE. REAGAN was famous for sending around that stupid PROPAGANDA record in the early 60s, claiming that 'our children would wake up in a communist country' if the United States adopted MEDICARE. That was a standard Republican SCARE tactic. Once it actually happened, everyone found out it wasn't really that bad. In fact, most people LOVE their Medicare.
My advice to Democrats would be to stop playing into the 'socialism' language of these fearmongers, and start talking about MIXED FREE MARKET ECONOMIES instead. That's what the United States is, as well as every other developed country.
sop
(10,156 posts)in the last 20 years. Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security. Socialism is what they called farm price supports. Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance. Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations. Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people." - Harry S. Truman, 1952
Prof. Toru Tanaka
(1,952 posts)One that many Trumphumpers take for granted when they are able to get products like milk in the store for $2.09 a gallon.
I used that price because our nearest grocery store charges that price (their brand, they have a couple of other brands that are around $3.00-$3.50).
JohnSJ
(92,138 posts)I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)The fire department is socialism and so is that ball field.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Try educating people like that. Christ, trump would have made us a Russian territory, but the rubes still love him.
David__77
(23,370 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)luckone
(21,646 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)They are robust capitalist countries with strong safety nets for their populations. The thing is, magats and many voters from Latin countries still view socialism as toxic and republicans know that and use it and "defund the police", BLM and antifa to scare voters.
It worked in 2020 and we lost several seats in the House. Mixed free market economies is another way of saying social democracy but IMO it'll go over the heads of most magats, et al. And Bernie and AOC, thank God, have stopped referring to themselves as democratic socialists, a poor and vote losing choice of words to use if they really meant social democrats/mixed free market economists.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)about that lately. AOC especially since she was chastised by other House members after we lost several seats in 2020.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)as NY state is far from the deep blue of her district.
Initech
(100,063 posts)They are only mad about it because of what they hear on Fox and AM radio. That's it.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)betsuni
(25,472 posts)He just tweaked history: "Sanders has convinced millions of Democrats that FDR was a democratic socialist and that his policies are democratic socialism," why people suddenly started referring to themselves as "FDR Democrats" and considered Sanders the successor to FDR, a True Democrat.
Anybody interested can read chapter 23 of Steven Stoft's "Ripped Apart":
http://books.google.co.jp/books/about/Ripped_Apart.html?id=Fk7SDwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y
"Sanders' strategy is brilliant. It's helped him cover his socialist past by pretending a democratic socialist is just someone aligned with FDR. In this way he paints himself as a good FDR democratic socialist, even though there's no such thing. ... And because Sanders has convinced his followers that rejecting democratic socialism means rejecting FDR liberalism, they mistakenly view all knowledgeable Democrats as hostile to FDR liberalism. In fact, FDR is still our hero."
malaise
(268,931 posts)Rec
JHB
(37,158 posts)...in one-on-one conversations with someone who I think I might be able to plant a seed past the iron bubble.
The wildly expansive definition of "socialism"conservatives use these days, encompassing everything they don't like and even stuff they do like but don't think of it that way, used to be the stuff of ranting cranks. Maybe it was a guy on top of a box raving on a street corner, or muttering into his gin and tonics at the country club bar, or cranking out "communist conspiracy" pamphlets, but they were all nuts.
That crank definition covers so much ground it includes the USA during WW2 and the Cold War. Apparently we won those as a "socialist" country, as a "marxist" country. And every who argues that anything happening now is "socialist" or "marxist" believes the country they "want back" is the same "sociualist, marxist" country we had then.
It's all bullshit, of course, but jeez do they take offense when someone hints that the brown stuff they're spooning up isn't chocolate. Hell, they'll ask for seconds and eat more in front of you just to "own" you.
Maxheader
(4,372 posts)Americans benefit, hugely....
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)"Socialism (noun): a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
DFW
(54,354 posts)I think of my current residence, Germany, and take three 50 year intervals. In 1893, no one could have predicted the Nazi regime and the horrors of World War II. In 1943, while the British and American bombers were starting to demolish their cities, no one in Germany could have predicted the tranquil, albeit somewhat reduced, Federal Republic of 1993. In the early 1980s, when Poland was showing some signs of unrest, Leonid Zamyatin, of the ruling elite of the Soviet Union, said Poland would always remain socialist. Конечно, там, товарищ.
History rarely follows any individuals blueprint for very long.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)brooklynite
(94,502 posts)until someone comes along and say Yes Im a socialist BUT
aocommunalpunch
(4,236 posts)Youll accept what youre given. Fight for what you want and let them cry about it.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)aocommunalpunch
(4,236 posts)So I say label yourself and defend it.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)I'm not a socialist. I see no value in redefining a useless term when there are plenty of other words that work better.