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WarGamer

(12,485 posts)
Thu Jul 8, 2021, 06:31 PM Jul 2021

Joe's doing his best with Corporate Taxation. It's not easy.

It's a complex issue.

I'm going to summarize and then link you to a boring, sleep inducing article from the Treasury that I PROMISE will make you the smartest person in the room re: Corporate Taxation.



There IS NO Mr. Apple to whip out his checkbook and scratch out a 2 Billion dollar check every year.

So what IS Apple? Apple is a legal entity, a Corporation.

Who owns it? Well, lots of people. You see, Apple is broken into 16.7 Billion tiny pieces called SHARES. Each share is worth around $140. (In fact, I traded some APPL stock personally this week).

Some people own LOTS of Apple stock, like Tim Cook who owns 837k shares or Arthur Levinson who owns 4.6 million shares.

Some people own a LITTLE Apple stock. With retail trading apps like Robinhood, WeBull and others, millions of people own a slice of Apple.

Hidden owners of Apple stock? Large governmental investment funds have money in Apple. One such fund is CALPRS, the California State pension fund. As recently as a couple years ago they owned 10-15 million shares of Apple. CALPRS uses income from these investments to pay benefits to Librarians, Teachers, Police officers and Social workers. Does your 401k hold some Apple?



Who pays Corporate Taxes?

That question is so significant that there's a "book-phrase" for it. It's called Corporate Tax Incidence.

So what's the answer? I've read about the topic and frankly, no one knows. Seriously. They can't come to agreement. Here's what some experts believe.

For every 1% of increased Corporate Income Tax, wages are suppressed 0.5-1%.

Consumer Prices Rise.

Shareholders lose money.

Corporate Employees lose jobs, benefits or salary.



Deep Dive.

Why can't a Corporation just take money out of their profit and pay their taxes?

Because Corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, even before their employees. That's the LAW.

Shareholders, like Tim Cook, Me and the retired Librarian living next door expect Apple to remain profitable and maximize the value of my ownership of the company.

So the Corporation will always adjust it's balance sheet to pay taxes. They have multiple ways of offsetting increases in Corporate Taxes:

Increasing the cost to the consumer for their product or service. Read iPhones, gasoline or a new Ford.

Reducing Employee wages or benefits.

Allow their profitability to suffer, allowing stock prices to drop.


The Corporation will strive to make a profit. Corporate Taxation will be treated as just another business expense. In Apples case, like the cost of Labor or copper or IC's.



Another problem with Corporate Taxation, Corporations are mobile in a free and open market. That means a Corporation can be HQ'd overseas and pay less US Corporate Taxes.

For a LONG time, Countries have been reluctant to talk about universal Corporate Tax rates because a lower tax rate is considered an advantage for a Country, attracting Corporate HQ's and their capital.

But Joe is making a serious push at a Global Corporate Tax which would HELP with the issue. Makes you wonder why no one else every tried??

Is it possible? Will nations globally agree to a fair and equal tax footing? Personally, I doubt it.





Note, I'm expecting some to verbailze:

"Hey WarGamer, fuck the rich and fuck the Corporations. They need to pay their fucking Bill!!!"



You're right. The rich need to pay.

Tim Cook, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg WANT us to be talking about Corporate Taxes. Sure, it's a headache for them but it doesn't affect their own wallet, not much at all.

When you say Apple needs to PAY because they're so profitable you're saying "All 16.7 Billion shares of Apple stock, owned by 100's of millions of people need to pay"

Really? My retired Librarian neighbor needs to pay? Or the Genius at the Apple store in the mall? He needs to pay?

What you're really getting at is... Tim Cook and Levinson need to pay because they own BILLIONS Of dollars of Apple. And you CAN'T get your hands on their money with Corporate Taxation.

Bottom line:

Wealth Tax Now.

One time 5% and 1% annually.

Oh and here's the great article:

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/tax-analysis/Documents/WP-101.pdf

3 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Joe's doing his best with Corporate Taxation. It's not easy. (Original Post) WarGamer Jul 2021 OP
Without an annual appraisal, there is no way to know how much wealth anyone has. MichMan Jul 2021 #1
This Analysis Seems To Differ ProfessorGAC Jul 2021 #2
thanks for reading, I appreciate it! WarGamer Jul 2021 #3

MichMan

(11,994 posts)
1. Without an annual appraisal, there is no way to know how much wealth anyone has.
Thu Jul 8, 2021, 07:12 PM
Jul 2021

I get that it would only apply to those above a certain amount, but without an appraisal, how could anyone tell who was subject to the tax? Seems like every single household would need one.

Who would do such an appraisal that would be certified by the IRS?

ProfessorGAC

(65,230 posts)
2. This Analysis Seems To Differ
Thu Jul 8, 2021, 07:34 PM
Jul 2021

It suggests that macroeconomic health is not truly linked to corporate tax rates.

https://www.epi.org/publication/ib364-corporate-tax-rates-and-economic-growth/#:~:text=The%20statutory%20corporate%20tax%20rate%20is%20also%20displayed%20in%20Figure,in%20steps%20to%2035%20percent.

Also, this chart shows that inflation adjusted median income has risen only 32% in 55 years. That's 0.5016% per year.
Note that the slope of the line in eras of higher corporate rates is awfully close to that of lower tax regime periods.
In fact, the steepest slope in this chart occurs where corporate taxes peaked in the last 40 years.
https://www.multpl.com/us-median-real-income
The premise that there is a direct correlation between corporate tax rates (statutory or effective) & worker compensation does not exist.

Finally, fiduciary duty does not require cutting compensation to maximize profits. The duty is to take proper strategic & tactical steps to BOTH maximize yield AND create sustainability for long term financial viability.
Turning a company into a revolving personnel door by racing to a wage bottom is actually unsustainable, so taking such action in reflexive reaction to statutory tax rate increases is not within the fiduciary duty.

Sorry, but this premise seems very much like the 2 dimensional thought processes of the Chicago School & the Cato drones.

WarGamer

(12,485 posts)
3. thanks for reading, I appreciate it!
Thu Jul 8, 2021, 10:47 PM
Jul 2021

I tend to be long winded and probably a bit excessive.

I differentiate myself from Cato because at my core I'm a pessimist with some misanthrope mixed in. I believe that people will most always choose the mighty dollar over anything else and must be separated from their money by force, lol... I have no passion for protecting the rights of the rich.

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