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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGood Riddance Robert E Lee
Last edited Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:43 AM - Edit history (1)
Down comes that stupid statue of hate in Virginia and M$Greedia it isn't centuries of history. The Civil War was from April 12, 1861 April 9, 1865. Slavery was centuries of history.-
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215609023
adding this link
marble falls
(57,081 posts)"But even if one conceded Lees military prowess, he would still be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans in defense of the Souths authority to own millions of human beings as property because they are black. Lees elevation is a key part of a 150-year-old propaganda campaign designed to erase slavery as the cause of the war and whitewash the Confederate cause as a noble one. That ideology is known as the Lost Cause, and as the historian David Blight writes, it provided a foundation on which Southerners built the Jim Crow system.
There are unwitting victims of this campaignthose who lack the knowledge to separate history from sentiment. Then there are those whose reverence for Lee relies on replacing the actual Lee with a mythical figure who never truly existed.
In the Richmond Times Dispatch, R. David Cox wrote that for white supremacist protesters to invoke his name violates Lees most fundamental convictions. In the conservative publication Townhall, Jack Kerwick concluded that Lee was among the finest human beings that has ever walked the Earth. John Daniel Davidson, in an essay for The Federalist, opposed the removal of the Lee statute in part on the grounds that Lee arguably did more than anyone to unite the country after the war and bind up its wounds. Praise for Lee of this sort has flowed forth from past historians and presidents alike.
This is too divorced from Lees actual life to even be classed as fan fiction; it is simply historical illiteracy.
White supremacy does not violate Lees most fundamental convictions. White supremacy was one of Lees most fundamental convictions.
Lee was a slave ownerhis own views on slavery were explicated in an 1856 letter that is often misquoted to give the impression that Lee was some kind of abolitionist. In the letter, he describes slavery as a moral & political evil, but goes on to explain that:
I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.
The argument here is that slavery is bad for white people, good for black people, and most important, better than abolitionism; emancipation must wait for divine intervention. That black people might not want to be slaves does not enter into the equation; their opinion on the subject of their own bondage is not even an afterthought to Lee.
Lees cruelty as a slave master was not confined to physical punishment. In Reading the Man, the historian Elizabeth Brown Pryors portrait of Lee through his writings, Pryor writes that Lee ruptured the Washington and Custis tradition of respecting slave families by hiring them off to other plantations, and that by 1860 he had broken up every family but one on the estate, some of whom had been together since Mount Vernon days. The separation of slave families was one of the most unfathomably devastating aspects of slavery, and Pryor wrote that Lees slaves regarded him as the worst man I ever see.
The trauma of rupturing families lasted lifetimes for the enslavedit was, as my colleague Ta-Nehisi Coates described it, a kind of murder. After the war, thousands of the emancipated searched desperately for kin lost to the market for human flesh, fruitlessly for most. In Reconstruction, the historian Eric Foner quotes a Freedmens Bureau agent who notes of the emancipated, In their eyes, the work of emancipation was incomplete until the families which had been dispersed by slavery were reunited.
malaise
(268,993 posts)marble falls
(57,081 posts)AZ8theist
(5,461 posts)Then became a FUCKING TRAITOR.
..nuff said..
Enslaved human beings on General Robert E. Lees Virginia estate, which is now Arlington National Cemetery:
Solly Mack
(90,765 posts)wnylib
(21,449 posts)more accurately shouting "1861" than "1776."
And 1861 failed, too.
marble falls
(57,081 posts)Lees heavy hand on the Arlington, Virginia, plantation, Pryor writes, nearly led to a slave revolt, in part because the enslaved had been expected to be freed upon their previous masters death, and Lee had engaged in a dubious legal interpretation of his will in order to keep them as his property, one that lasted until a Virginia court forced him to free them.
When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to lay it on well. Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.
Goodheart
(5,324 posts)the State Supreme Court.
underpants
(182,800 posts)Moving to Richmond in the early 90s I cant tell you how entrenched Monument Avenue is in the local psychie. I expected a much longer draw out legal battle with money pouring in to save the statues. POOF they were gone. At least it seemed like it.
Lee is left. Its on State park property (the sidewalk is the city) as you probably know. AP Hill is left too but hes buried there (reburied really but thats a whole other story) which complicates it.
Goodheart
(5,324 posts)I lost a couple of friends there over trumpism and the Monument Avenue statues.
malaise
(268,993 posts)dinosaurs
underpants
(182,800 posts)Maybe they made a calculation that right now wasnt the best time for them to step out into the light.
malaise
(268,993 posts)Santa Claus, still living after dying and then flying up to the sky for milk and honey or 72 virgins.
We believe all sorts of crap.
wnylib
(21,449 posts)Flintstones anachronism. No wonder the religious fundies insist that humans and dinosaurs overlapped in time. Too many cartoons.
It's their reality :rofl
panader0
(25,816 posts)Time to end the adulation of the warriors of slavery.
(Actually, I buy new underwear every year.)
malaise
(268,993 posts)AZ8theist
(5,461 posts)Me too!!
FIVE YEARS???
I've got a hemorrhoid that turned 12 this year....
marble falls
(57,081 posts)... my grandmother (a Scot) gave me a bag of my late grandfather's jockey shorts. They made it to a dumpster.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Growing up in Texas, I was taught that Mexicans were dirty and Texas seceded from the Union because the state needed to maintain Texans "need to live free."
It was all a lie. Segregation was "good" for some reason I never understood. Black people lived in an area called Deep Ellum and I was taught that I couldn't go there because it was awful and mess and that's what happens when black people live there.
When I went off to college in the north, my aunt said sternly to me "All your people are Southern people.'
When I left Texas I never went back there to live, much to my family's consternation.
Irony: I inherited 3 burial plots at Restland Cemetary. Or I thought I did. My brother, deceased, was buried there as was all my family members. I was told the plots were bought by my father. Since I had no intention of being buried there, I asked who would inherit them if not me. They said my brother's children. I tracked down and found his only remaining daughter (the other died in an act of handgun violence). When I finally found her sister she was a pastor of a Methodist Church in North Carolina. I gave her the information and told her what the plots were now worth (several thousand dollars). I hope she used the money for her kids college educations and my brother's senseless life and death from alcoholism would count for something.
c
malaise
(268,993 posts)marble falls
(57,081 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)sides of the family about the men who went to war during WW2. They have the old photos. My daughter is putting some family photos on the back cover of my second book on art, "The Gladdened Heart the Art of music."
Anyway, there are old photos which will probably be put in an album someday.
I think there is something poetic about our ancestors existence in a society soaked in racial hatred. I want my grandkids to have a family record to make it real for them, not just something they (hopefully) will read about and learn in school.
marble falls
(57,081 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)one is too young but growing up in liberal NYC and full of liberal Dem values. One in L.A. is trans, born biologically a male now taking a hormone regime; she has assumed the name of her beloved aunt, now deceased. I know she'll face challenges I never even dreamed of at her age.
We move on.
Yonnie3
(17,437 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 10, 2021, 04:56 PM - Edit history (1)
One died and others were damaged for life. There is a very muted celebration of the statue's removal here in town today.
edit: fixed the title. it has been four years, not three
malaise
(268,993 posts)cojoel
(957 posts)The Band's song "The Night They Drove Ol' Dixie Down" had a line that went: "Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E. Lee!"
I never thought that line made so much sense. But now, I must say, I'm glad to see him go.
malaise
(268,993 posts)PJMcK
(22,035 posts)All of the Confederate's leaders should have been tried for sedition then hanged for trying to overthrow the U.S. Government. Period. No mercy.
But because that didn't happen, we've had this bullshit for 150 years about "Southern Heritage" which has only perpetuated the racism and ignorance that has permeated much of Southern politics since the Civil War. Shit, Mississippi even has the Confederate flag on its state flag!
This is why I believe the 1/6 insurrectionists must be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Throw their asses in prison. This kind of crap must not be allowed to stand or we'll just go through it again but perhaps with a more tragic outcome.
malaise
(268,993 posts)It's how we got here
BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)And that shit is gone too. As of this year, January 11, 2021, THIS is the new official MS flag -
(they were the last to remove the Confederate bullshit from their state flag)
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)Good for Mississippi.
BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/13/mosquito-flag-rise-and-fall-mississippi-icon/3359350001/
although it was quickly dismissed but lives on in internet land and you can even buy one!
The official one -
multigraincracker
(32,675 posts)It is now mostly Republican, so lets replace all of those Lee statues with a great republican, U.S. Grant.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)Or how about President Lincoln? He was the first Republican president.
BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)Live feed at post time -
malaise
(268,993 posts)You made me recall this song
BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)Fritz Walter
(4,291 posts)The Duval County School board voted recently to change the name of this high school to Riverside HS, and I cant wait until they remove his name from the site!
The county actually held a referendum and allowed students, alumni and neighborhood residents to vote. And vote we did!
malaise
(268,993 posts)Fritz Walter
(4,291 posts)Took a stroll by the high school a few minutes ago, and the traitors name has been removed from the large sign in front of the school. It just says High School now.
Now, if we can just persuade the city to rename Confederate Park, located in an urban part of the city, and both the neighborhood Confederate Point and the road with that name
AverageOldGuy
(1,524 posts)Lowell over at BlueVirginia has been posting step-by-step photos and video of the statue removal.
malaise
(268,993 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)malaise
(268,993 posts)Paladin
(28,257 posts)He passed on that opportunity and instead opted for the traitorous military leadership of the losing side. To hell with him.
BumRushDaShow
(128,958 posts)dalton99a
(81,485 posts)Rexdon
(3 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,219 posts)The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)Hung for treason. Lee and a lot more should have been hung.
I am sick and tired of the south celebrating the war they started and lost.
I am sick and tired of their continuation of racism!