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malaise

(268,993 posts)
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 08:06 AM Jul 2021

Good Riddance Robert E Lee

Last edited Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:43 AM - Edit history (1)

Down comes that stupid statue of hate in Virginia and M$Greedia it isn't centuries of history. The Civil War was from April 12, 1861 – April 9, 1865. Slavery was centuries of history.-

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215609023

adding this link

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Good Riddance Robert E Lee (Original Post) malaise Jul 2021 OP
The myth of the Kind Robert E. Lee ... marble falls Jul 2021 #1
Thanks for this malaise Jul 2021 #3
There's more. Lee was a dispicable man. He left quite a legacy the South ignores. marble falls Jul 2021 #5
He attended West Point. Finished 2nd in his class in 1829. AZ8theist Jul 2021 #18
yep bigtree Jul 2021 #12
Thank you. Solly Mack Jul 2021 #16
The traitors of Jan 6 should have been wnylib Jul 2021 #38
Some more heartwarming good ol' Massa Robert E. Lee fun facts ... marble falls Jul 2021 #43
Charlottesville. The Richmond statue is still waiting a ruling from Goodheart Jul 2021 #2
Yes malaise Jul 2021 #4
I'm still shocked at how easily the other statues came down. underpants Jul 2021 #6
I know. I just recently moved away from Richmond. Lived on Boulevard. Goodheart Jul 2021 #8
Most of what they believe is as real as the Flintstones living with malaise Jul 2021 #11
Yeah but they REALLY believe it underpants Jul 2021 #23
We humans are gullible folks malaise Jul 2021 #25
OMG! I'd forgotten about that wnylib Jul 2021 #39
Indeed malaise Jul 2021 #52
I've got underwear that lasted longer than the Confederacy. panader0 Jul 2021 #7
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah malaise Jul 2021 #15
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! AZ8theist Jul 2021 #19
I'm wearing shirts regularly I inherited from my dad in '98 ... marble falls Jul 2021 #33
I was taught a lie. CTyankee Jul 2021 #9
What an amazing story malaise Jul 2021 #17
There's a very good long article hiding in there. I'd sure like to read it. marble falls Jul 2021 #29
That's basically the story. I guess I should tell my grown kids. I've told them the stories on both CTyankee Jul 2021 #44
I pray your grand kids get to learn about it in history classes and not on the latest breaking news. marble falls Jul 2021 #46
Three are in/graduated from liberal arts colleges in the Northeast. CTyankee Jul 2021 #47
It has been four years we've been at this Yonnie3 Jul 2021 #10
Yes indeed malaise Jul 2021 #45
This song lyric makes more sense now cojoel Jul 2021 #13
Great post malaise Jul 2021 #20
Lee was a traitor PJMcK Jul 2021 #14
You are correct malaise Jul 2021 #21
"Mississippi even has the Confederate flag on its state flag!" BumRushDaShow Jul 2021 #36
Thanks, I didn't know that PJMcK Jul 2021 #50
One thing I laugh about with respect to their flag was one of the entries for consideration BumRushDaShow Jul 2021 #51
The South has changed. multigraincracker Jul 2021 #22
I like that PJMcK Jul 2021 #31
The shit is off the pedestal and on a truck to be hauled away BumRushDaShow Jul 2021 #24
Thanks for these malaise Jul 2021 #26
Perfect!!! BumRushDaShow Jul 2021 #32
That headline may soon apply here in Jax Fritz Walter Jul 2021 #27
Great news malaise Jul 2021 #28
Update! Fritz Walter Jul 2021 #42
Photos, video here AverageOldGuy Jul 2021 #30
Please add the link malaise Jul 2021 #35
He did an LBN OP on it --here are the links in that BumRushDaShow Jul 2021 #40
Thanks malaise Jul 2021 #41
He had the chance to command Lincoln's Union Army. Paladin Jul 2021 #34
Gone and driven away. BumRushDaShow Jul 2021 #37
Throw that shit in the trash. dalton99a Jul 2021 #48
I thought they took the statue down 4 years ago Rexdon Jul 2021 #49
Good riddance LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2021 #53
Lee should have been hung at Appomattox. The Jungle 1 Jul 2021 #54

marble falls

(57,081 posts)
1. The myth of the Kind Robert E. Lee ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 08:18 AM
Jul 2021
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/

"But even if one conceded Lee’s military prowess, he would still be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans in defense of the South’s authority to own millions of human beings as property because they are black. Lee’s elevation is a key part of a 150-year-old propaganda campaign designed to erase slavery as the cause of the war and whitewash the Confederate cause as a noble one. That ideology is known as the Lost Cause, and as the historian David Blight writes, it provided a “foundation on which Southerners built the Jim Crow system.”

There are unwitting victims of this campaign—those who lack the knowledge to separate history from sentiment. Then there are those whose reverence for Lee relies on replacing the actual Lee with a mythical figure who never truly existed.

In the Richmond Times Dispatch, R. David Cox wrote that “for white supremacist protesters to invoke his name violates Lee’s most fundamental convictions.” In the conservative publication Townhall, Jack Kerwick concluded that Lee was “among the finest human beings that has ever walked the Earth.” John Daniel Davidson, in an essay for The Federalist, opposed the removal of the Lee statute in part on the grounds that Lee “arguably did more than anyone to unite the country after the war and bind up its wounds.” Praise for Lee of this sort has flowed forth from past historians and presidents alike.

This is too divorced from Lee’s actual life to even be classed as fan fiction; it is simply historical illiteracy.

White supremacy does not “violate” Lee’s “most fundamental convictions.” White supremacy was one of Lee’s most fundamental convictions.

Lee was a slave owner—his own views on slavery were explicated in an 1856 letter that is often misquoted to give the impression that Lee was some kind of abolitionist. In the letter, he describes slavery as “a moral & political evil,” but goes on to explain that:

I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.

The argument here is that slavery is bad for white people, good for black people, and most important, better than abolitionism; emancipation must wait for divine intervention. That black people might not want to be slaves does not enter into the equation; their opinion on the subject of their own bondage is not even an afterthought to Lee.

Lee’s cruelty as a slave master was not confined to physical punishment. In Reading the Man, the historian Elizabeth Brown Pryor’s portrait of Lee through his writings, Pryor writes that “Lee ruptured the Washington and Custis tradition of respecting slave families” by hiring them off to other plantations, and that “by 1860 he had broken up every family but one on the estate, some of whom had been together since Mount Vernon days.” The separation of slave families was one of the most unfathomably devastating aspects of slavery, and Pryor wrote that Lee’s slaves regarded him as “the worst man I ever see.”

The trauma of rupturing families lasted lifetimes for the enslaved—it was, as my colleague Ta-Nehisi Coates described it, “a kind of murder.” After the war, thousands of the emancipated searched desperately for kin lost to the market for human flesh, fruitlessly for most. In Reconstruction, the historian Eric Foner quotes a Freedmen’s Bureau agent who notes of the emancipated, “In their eyes, the work of emancipation was incomplete until the families which had been dispersed by slavery were reunited.”

AZ8theist

(5,461 posts)
18. He attended West Point. Finished 2nd in his class in 1829.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:09 AM
Jul 2021

Then became a FUCKING TRAITOR.

..nuff said..

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
12. yep
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:57 AM
Jul 2021
Michael Beschloss @BeschlossDC 42m
Enslaved human beings on General Robert E. Lee’s Virginia estate, which is now Arlington National Cemetery:


wnylib

(21,449 posts)
38. The traitors of Jan 6 should have been
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:56 AM
Jul 2021

more accurately shouting "1861" than "1776."

And 1861 failed, too.

marble falls

(57,081 posts)
43. Some more heartwarming good ol' Massa Robert E. Lee fun facts ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 11:48 AM
Jul 2021

Lee’s heavy hand on the Arlington, Virginia, plantation, Pryor writes, nearly led to a slave revolt, in part because the enslaved had been expected to be freed upon their previous master’s death, and Lee had engaged in a dubious legal interpretation of his will in order to keep them as his property, one that lasted until a Virginia court forced him to free them.

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.




underpants

(182,800 posts)
6. I'm still shocked at how easily the other statues came down.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 08:47 AM
Jul 2021

Moving to Richmond in the early 90’s I can’t tell you how entrenched Monument Avenue is in the local psychie. I expected a much longer draw out legal battle with money pouring in to save the statues. POOF they were gone. At least it seemed like it.

Lee is left. It’s on State park property (the sidewalk is the city) as you probably know. AP Hill is left too but he’s buried there (reburied really but that’s a whole other story) which complicates it.

Goodheart

(5,324 posts)
8. I know. I just recently moved away from Richmond. Lived on Boulevard.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:02 AM
Jul 2021

I lost a couple of friends there over trumpism and the Monument Avenue statues.

underpants

(182,800 posts)
23. Yeah but they REALLY believe it
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:22 AM
Jul 2021

Maybe they made a calculation that right now wasn’t the best time for them to step out into the light.

malaise

(268,993 posts)
25. We humans are gullible folks
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:29 AM
Jul 2021

Santa Claus, still living after dying and then flying up to the sky for milk and honey or 72 virgins.
We believe all sorts of crap.

wnylib

(21,449 posts)
39. OMG! I'd forgotten about that
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 11:01 AM
Jul 2021

Flintstones anachronism. No wonder the religious fundies insist that humans and dinosaurs overlapped in time. Too many cartoons.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
7. I've got underwear that lasted longer than the Confederacy.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 08:49 AM
Jul 2021

Time to end the adulation of the warriors of slavery.
(Actually, I buy new underwear every year.)

marble falls

(57,081 posts)
33. I'm wearing shirts regularly I inherited from my dad in '98 ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:39 AM
Jul 2021

... my grandmother (a Scot) gave me a bag of my late grandfather's jockey shorts. They made it to a dumpster.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
9. I was taught a lie.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:14 AM
Jul 2021

Growing up in Texas, I was taught that Mexicans were dirty and Texas seceded from the Union because the state needed to maintain Texans "need to live free."

It was all a lie. Segregation was "good" for some reason I never understood. Black people lived in an area called Deep Ellum and I was taught that I couldn't go there because it was awful and mess and that's what happens when black people live there.

When I went off to college in the north, my aunt said sternly to me "All your people are Southern people.'

When I left Texas I never went back there to live, much to my family's consternation.

Irony: I inherited 3 burial plots at Restland Cemetary. Or I thought I did. My brother, deceased, was buried there as was all my family members. I was told the plots were bought by my father. Since I had no intention of being buried there, I asked who would inherit them if not me. They said my brother's children. I tracked down and found his only remaining daughter (the other died in an act of handgun violence). When I finally found her sister she was a pastor of a Methodist Church in North Carolina. I gave her the information and told her what the plots were now worth (several thousand dollars). I hope she used the money for her kids college educations and my brother's senseless life and death from alcoholism would count for something.
c

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
44. That's basically the story. I guess I should tell my grown kids. I've told them the stories on both
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 12:06 PM
Jul 2021

sides of the family about the men who went to war during WW2. They have the old photos. My daughter is putting some family photos on the back cover of my second book on art, "The Gladdened Heart the Art of music."

Anyway, there are old photos which will probably be put in an album someday.

I think there is something poetic about our ancestors existence in a society soaked in racial hatred. I want my grandkids to have a family record to make it real for them, not just something they (hopefully) will read about and learn in school.

marble falls

(57,081 posts)
46. I pray your grand kids get to learn about it in history classes and not on the latest breaking news.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 12:11 PM
Jul 2021

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
47. Three are in/graduated from liberal arts colleges in the Northeast.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 12:17 PM
Jul 2021

one is too young but growing up in liberal NYC and full of liberal Dem values. One in L.A. is trans, born biologically a male now taking a hormone regime; she has assumed the name of her beloved aunt, now deceased. I know she'll face challenges I never even dreamed of at her age.

We move on.

Yonnie3

(17,437 posts)
10. It has been four years we've been at this
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:15 AM
Jul 2021

Last edited Sat Jul 10, 2021, 04:56 PM - Edit history (1)

One died and others were damaged for life. There is a very muted celebration of the statue's removal here in town today.

edit: fixed the title. it has been four years, not three

cojoel

(957 posts)
13. This song lyric makes more sense now
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:00 AM
Jul 2021

The Band's song "The Night They Drove Ol' Dixie Down" had a line that went: "Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E. Lee!"

I never thought that line made so much sense. But now, I must say, I'm glad to see him go.

PJMcK

(22,035 posts)
14. Lee was a traitor
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:02 AM
Jul 2021

All of the Confederate's leaders should have been tried for sedition then hanged for trying to overthrow the U.S. Government. Period. No mercy.

But because that didn't happen, we've had this bullshit for 150 years about "Southern Heritage" which has only perpetuated the racism and ignorance that has permeated much of Southern politics since the Civil War. Shit, Mississippi even has the Confederate flag on its state flag!

This is why I believe the 1/6 insurrectionists must be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Throw their asses in prison. This kind of crap must not be allowed to stand or we'll just go through it again but perhaps with a more tragic outcome.

BumRushDaShow

(128,958 posts)
36. "Mississippi even has the Confederate flag on its state flag!"
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:53 AM
Jul 2021

And that shit is gone too. As of this year, January 11, 2021, THIS is the new official MS flag -





(they were the last to remove the Confederate bullshit from their state flag)

BumRushDaShow

(128,958 posts)
51. One thing I laugh about with respect to their flag was one of the entries for consideration
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 01:14 PM
Jul 2021


https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/13/mosquito-flag-rise-and-fall-mississippi-icon/3359350001/

although it was quickly dismissed but lives on in internet land and you can even buy one!



The official one -


multigraincracker

(32,675 posts)
22. The South has changed.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:18 AM
Jul 2021

It is now mostly Republican, so let’s replace all of those Lee statues with a great republican, U.S. Grant.

Fritz Walter

(4,291 posts)
27. That headline may soon apply here in Jax
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:33 AM
Jul 2021

The Duval County School board voted recently to change the name of this high school to “Riverside HS,” and I can’t wait until they remove his name from the site!

The county actually held a referendum and allowed students, alumni and neighborhood residents to vote. And vote we did!

Fritz Walter

(4,291 posts)
42. Update!
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 11:43 AM
Jul 2021

Took a stroll by the high school a few minutes ago, and the traitor’s name has been removed from the large sign in front of the school. It just says “High School” now.

Now, if we can just persuade the city to rename “Confederate Park,” located in an urban part of the city, and both the neighborhood “Confederate Point” and the road with that name…

AverageOldGuy

(1,524 posts)
30. Photos, video here
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:37 AM
Jul 2021

Lowell over at BlueVirginia has been posting step-by-step photos and video of the statue removal.

Paladin

(28,257 posts)
34. He had the chance to command Lincoln's Union Army.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:46 AM
Jul 2021

He passed on that opportunity and instead opted for the traitorous military leadership of the losing side. To hell with him.

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
54. Lee should have been hung at Appomattox.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 11:35 PM
Jul 2021

Hung for treason. Lee and a lot more should have been hung.
I am sick and tired of the south celebrating the war they started and lost.
I am sick and tired of their continuation of racism!

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