More states are making porch piracy a felony

[ripcord]

Is this a good thing or bad?

[Skittles]

1. stealing mail should be a felony

PERIOD

[hlthe2b]

5. Theft of US mail is already subject to up to 5 years in prison. They are talking parcels from

Amazon, UPS, FEDX

Here is the statute for US mail which is a specific crime, not directly tied to value:

Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains, or attempts so to obtain, from or out of any mail, post office, or station thereof, letter box, mail receptacle, or any mail route or other authorized depository for mail matter, or from a letter or mail carrier, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or abstracts or removes from any such letter, package, bag, or mail, any article or thing contained therein, or secretes, embezzles, or destroys any such letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein; or

Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein which has been left for collection upon or adjacent to a collection box or other authorized depository of mail matter; or

Whoever buys, receives, or conceals, or unlawfully has in his possession, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein, which has been so stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted, as herein described, knowing the same to have been stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 779; May 24, 1949, ch. 139, § 39, 63 Stat. 95; July 1, 1952, ch. 535, 66 Stat. 314; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

[TheBlackAdder]

109. We had mail taken by a local, contacted the postmaster, referred to local police -- nothing done.

.

They like to scare the shit out of people that stiff penalties can happen, but I've never heard of anyone getting nailed for people taking letters or small items.

.

[hlthe2b]

2. While it irritates me no end, how can they make it a felony if value of items stolen are minimal?

Most states classify felony theft as >$2,000. I can absolutely state that I've never had something dropped off valued more than a few hundred dollars and most of those required a signature.

I would be interested to know the mean and median value of such thefts.

I do think these thefts need to be prosecuted, though. Absolutely.

[ripcord]

4. Just classify the packages as mail

Stealing or tampering with the mail is already a felony.

[hlthe2b]

7. They can only do so if it is fully or partially delivered by US Postal Service. It doesn't

work like you think for non-USPS delivery services. I provided the specific statute up stream.

[krawhitham]

29. Yeah change that one statute to include the big four and problem solved

Just re-classify the packages as mail. Seems like a simple bill to pass

[fescuerescue]

100. Small bill major ramifications

It would completely remake how the non-government shippers do business.

[NutmegYankee]

12. They can change the law to make it a felony.

It's up to the legislature. If a few grams of powder or plant material could be made into a felony, porch piracy sure can be. I'd go further and make all theft a "3 strikes and you're out" situation.

[hlthe2b]

15. It is theft and as such state laws apply for felonious v misdemeanor theft . If it is a USPS

parcel (fully or partially delivered/processed by USPS) then Federal law applies which renders the value less relevant.

States CAN and some are writing new statutes to expand the definitions of postal theft to include packages in general delivered by all the services but few have passed them as yet. Colorado is at least in discussions on this:

Although there have been discussions among state lawmakers to pass similar legislation, there is still no theft law regarding mail theft in Colorado. As of June 2020, the criminal penalties for package theft depends on the value of the stolen item. Theft of an item worth less than $2,000 is a misdemeanor, while theft of an item worth at least $2,000 will lead to a felony.

Additionally, mail theft can also be charged as a federal offense, punishable by a maximum prison term of five years and a fine no more than $250,000. Yet, this law only applies to packages delivered by the United States Postal Service (USPS) – not other delivery services like FedEx, UPS, and Amazon.

[alphafemale]

23. Why are you so intent to go easy on low life scum?

It could be somebodies life saving medication.

Plus it is trespassing.

I'd say 5 years minimum.

[hlthe2b]

24. I am not. I am telling you this is not US mail theft and new state statutes will have to be written

and enacted into law to make such thefts from other carriers consistent with Federal statutes governing USPS mail. Becoming obviously angry when someone tells you what you don't want to hear does not make it so. Current law in every state would prosecute based on value of the items stolen. That CAN change but not without new laws.

Honestly, we have half the thread arguing this is a Federal crime under Postal theft--even if USPS never handled the package. THat is simply not the case--no matter how much people want to think it should be or whatever accusations you throw at ME for pointing out the fallacy of such assumptions.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. Yeah, nothing like spending a couple hundred thousand dollars to convict and house petty thieves.

Omg, it could be the code to dismantle the nuclear bomb set to go off under a nursery!

[DanieRains]

59. Put Them On Work Farms

Instead of prison. Plant trees. Grow food. No 3 hots and a cot.

[DiamondShark]

66. Work Farms... your description sounds like Slavery to me! n/t

[Straw Man]

68. What do you think they do in regular prisons?

They work, even if it isn't called a "work farm." The 13th Amendment allows it:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Actually, the prison where I worked closed down its farm due to high overhead costs and the belief that it was pointless to train a mostly urban-bred population for agricultural work. (This was a NY State facility a few hours north of NYC.) That closure was wildly unpopular among inmates and corrections officers alike, both of whom found the farm environment preferable to being inside all the time.

[DiamondShark]

70. And here I thought we were against slavery. n/t

[DanieRains]

102. They Weren't Slaves Because They Committed Crimes

Give the convicted a choice. Work for wages they can keep, and reduced sentences for doing well, or sit in an overcrowded jail cell with 50 other people. If they are in jail, they aren't stealing from any others. If they decide a life of crime is for them, they can stay in jail forever. I am tired of having my stuff stolen.

[Straw Man]

105. Maybe the 13th Amendment needs amending.

And our prison system could use some reform.

[sarisataka]

96. There recently were some threads

Favoring removing the clause that still allows slavery in the US with the government as the slave owner and a criminal serving sentence as the slave.

Should it now be put to wider use instead of being removed?

[alphafemale]

71. Your response is to let scum steal for a living. Ask them if they want a cookie.

It is not a petty crime when they steal hundreds of dollars of goods every damned day.

Easily thousands of dollars of goods every week.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

76. Thousands? Probably $millions! And they drive Cadillacs too!

[alphafemale]

80. You want to coddle criminals?

Do it.

They will slit your throat and not give a damn.

Go ahead and make your bed with them.

I'm not at all triggered.

[NutmegYankee]

30. Did you even read my post?

Because your response ONLY makers sense if you didn't.

[hlthe2b]

31. I had already answered your issue in multiple posts throughout this thread.

All I can assume is several people are experiencing heat waves in their locale, because the angry temperature some are bringing to this thread while not reading the posts is inexplicable otherwise.

No one defends porch theft. But current laws are not open to reinterpretation no matter how angry that may make some. The problem will require new approaches. Federal mail theft law does NOT affect the Amazon delivery that had no USPS intermediary. It just does not. Sorry.

[NutmegYankee]

32. I directly responded the first post you made in the thread.

Long before you had gotten off your US mail crusade.

[hlthe2b]

34. You don't apparently understand that current state laws as I clearly indicated will differentiate

between felony and misdemeanor based on the value of items stolen. THAT was my first response and then I went on in MULTIPLE responses to clarify for those confused that other carriers do not qualify under Federal mail theft statutes. This is an inconvenient truth for you, but it is the case. If the intent is to make all a felony, you've got a big hurdle to cross. NO, Congress is not going to legislate that all deliveries (non-USPS) are subject to Federal postal felony laws because private companies that are not working through the USPS are not eligible to be considered a Federal entity, unlike the constitutional proviso that formed the basis for establishing the USPS. Not to mention, the need to overrule those state laws that currently (in all 50 states) establish a felony and misdemeanor categorization for theft.

You want this changed in your state? You need to lobby your state legislature, but be aware, criminalizing the very presence of someone at your front door on your porch is going to have some very unpleasant unanticipated consequences. Take the neighbor who was delivered the wrong package and merely goes over to exchange the one received for their own on their neighbor's porch (as has happened to me six times already this year). Felony prosecution, indeed.

Should states pass new laws to address porch piracy up to and including felony provisos? Sure, but thoughtfully crafted laws with the emphasis on 'thoughtful'--not kneejerk.

[NutmegYankee]

35. No, I understood that clearly if you had read my post.

As noted previously, you either had not read my post or have mistaken me for the other posters while you got caught up arguing about federal laws. I stated clearly and concisely that the legislature (obviously state) could make porch piracy a felony if they wanted - the $2000 limit can be changed/eliminated by them. As for someone swapping packages delivered incorrectly, the mens rea language of any likely law on porch piracy would address that aspect.

[hlthe2b]

36. --which is what i have said continually. I don't get your

continued angry posts aimed at me when we appear to be in agreement all along. But, I'm done.

May you have a cool, calm, and pleasant evening.

[Hekate]

3. Felony

[Klaralven]

6. Good thing.

[Dream Girl]

8. It's burglary in a way, because it involves a certain degree of trespass.

[hlthe2b]

9. It is theft and as such state laws apply for felonious v misdemeanor theft . If it is a USPS

parcel (fully or partially delivered/processed by USPS) then Federal law applies which renders the value less relevant.

States CAN and some are writing new statutes to expand the definitions of postal theft to include packages in general delivered by all the services but few have passed them as yet. Colorado is at least in discussions on this:

Although there have been discussions among state lawmakers to pass similar legislation, there is still no theft law regarding mail theft in Colorado. As of June 2020, the criminal penalties for package theft depends on the value of the stolen item. Theft of an item worth less than $2,000 is a misdemeanor, while theft of an item worth at least $2,000 will lead to a felony.

Additionally, mail theft can also be charged as a federal offense, punishable by a maximum prison term of five years and a fine no more than $250,000. Yet, this law only applies to packages delivered by the United States Postal Service (USPS) – not other delivery services like FedEx, UPS, and Amazon.

[Dream Girl]

10. No all USPS.. Half my deliveries are UPS, particularly higher value items. I think prior hearing pir

Is a differently sort of time. Worse than petty theft, not as serious as burgarly. As we burglary, there is a free of intrusion Andy the threat of physical harm. Plus as more and more commerce moves online, it will get bigger and bigger.

[hlthe2b]

14. Huh? i think you missed the point of Federal v State crimes. Porch thefts are only Federal

and thus subject to the statute for mail theft if full or partially delivered/processed by USPS.

See my posts upstream where I explain this in full and what some states are looking at to change laws for other services.

[Dream Girl]

16. Porch thefts are already federal crime? I wasn't aware of that. Is this regardless of source?

If I put a box of something on my neighbors porch and it gets stolen is that a federal crime?

[hlthe2b]

18. No. Porch thefts are only Federal Crimes if the package was USPS -processed/fully or partially

I posted the statute multiple times. Other services are NOT Federal crimes under the statute unless USPS participates in the delivery.

As I have repeatedly stated, some states (GA in particular) are looking to revise statutes, which right now would only charge as thefts with specific state statute determining the charging based on value (felony v misdemeanor dependent on a value exceeding $2000)

This is the current Federal statute:

Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains, or attempts so to obtain, from or out of any mail, post office, or station thereof, letter box, mail receptacle, or any mail route or other authorized depository for mail matter, or from a letter or mail carrier, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or abstracts or removes from any such letter, package, bag, or mail, any article or thing contained therein, or secretes, embezzles, or destroys any such letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein; or

Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein which has been left for collection upon or adjacent to a collection box or other authorized depository of mail matter; or

Whoever buys, receives, or conceals, or unlawfully has in his possession, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein, which has been so stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted, as herein described, knowing the same to have been stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 779; May 24, 1949, ch. 139, § 39, 63 Stat. 95; July 1, 1952, ch. 535, 66 Stat. 314; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

[Dream Girl]

21. Yes I get that. My opinion is that they are a different class of crime because by definition,

They involve trespass and pose a higher risk of harm. Thefts vs. burglary or theft vs. robbery. I don’t believe this should be treated as an expansion of existing postal theft laws to me it’s a different crime because of the tresspass element.

[Martin68]

48. Hithe 2B, the OP asked if people thought it SHOULD be a felony, not whether it is a felony.

Why should a crime only be a felony when it is related to the federal goevernment? Isn't it illogical for the punishment to be more severe for a federal crime than a local crime of the same nature?

[hlthe2b]

49. Martin68. I never said any such thing.

[Martin68]

52. True. But you did keep hammering away on the fact that it is not a felony because only theft of

federal mail is a felony by current law. I believe the question was, SHOULD it be a felony?

[hlthe2b]

53. Had you read the subthread, rather than dropped in to read a single post, you'd know the answer to

that, which I made abundantly clear. Good night.

[Marrah_Goodman]

20. And the USPS rarely does anything to investigate it.

Had a friend send a birthday give via Amazon that was delivered by the USPS. Regular postal worker was on vacation. The temp left it on the front porch instead of around back. It disappeared very quickly. There is nothing she can do about. She called everyone. She is out a couple hundred bucks.

[dewsgirl]

11. I assumed it already was, of course it's a good thing..

[NutmegYankee]

13. I'm all for making it a felony.

[rockfordfile]

38. I agree

[haele]

17. Thing is, porch pirates could be taking any value of items -

Anything from a $10.00 trinket, a replacement part for a home repair, to someone's time critical mail order medicines, which can have a life-threatening impact on the homeowner.
The value of the item stolen cannot be just monetary, it could be of an irreplaceable quality of life value especially since more people are purchasing important personal care or rehabilitation items via mail order rather than going to a store.

Porch pirates are burglars, pure and simple. Needs to be a felony, especially since some of what they steal may not have much dollar "value", but could result in deteriorating health, hospitalization, or death

Haele

[Marrah_Goodman]

19. It's a good thing

These people don't just do it once. Once it's stolen you have no recourse. Now if they could just get cops to investigate.

[Raine]

22. Good thing IMO 👍 nt

[Devil Child]

25. Good thing n/t

[keithbvadu2]

26. For the porch pirate

https://i.imgur.com/3kaz5fL.mp4

[SWBTATTReg]

27. A good thing, if you ask me. I don't use this very valuable service because of my fear that my

stuff via the US Mail, other delivery services will be stolen, I don't care who delivers it or not. So I don't use the mails/delivery for this very reason.

Per some of the discussions going on in this post, it's in some areas, a felony vs. other categories (not US Mail). This probably should be standardized regardless of who delivers it and perhaps have an automatic value of a minimum of a $100 or something, attached to it, to ensure that a certain tier of the criminal code applies. We must keep the mails secure.

I'm sure that they are tons of ways to address this issue, but personally, having the various and numerous carriers take on a more active approach to safeguard mail/parcel deliveries such as offices w/ mail boxes for use by customers for their mail or parcels doesn't seem workable, as mail volumes are overwhelming in anybody's book.

I would like to use the mails / carriers more often so I can take advantage of shopping at home, etc., as this concern of mine in things getting stolen do prevent me from using these services.

[Raine]

33. Me too, I would like to use mail order often but

unless it's really necessary I don't. Having to worry about it being stolen causes me so much stress it's not worth it. Even though getting things in the mail instead of going to stores would make my life much easier, it's just not worth the worry.

[rollin74]

28. Good thing. It should be a felony

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. I'd rather spend the money on more secure delivery systems than increased incarceration.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

43. Right?

How about we make it a felony for FedEx, Amazon or UPS to not ring the friggin’ bell?

I just had a $500 dollar Tesla charger delivered. I was home waiting because it was fairly expensive and I assumed they would want a signature. Nope. Just dropped it and ran. Luckily the boyfriend was checking our joint/delivery email account and the Ring camera. Big unwrapped box with “Tesla” on it screaming steal me on my porch.

All kidding aside, let’s be honest. The big shippers and retailers know it’s the cost of doing business.

UPS was first, at least in my neighborhood, to stop being sticklers about signatures. FedEx was always a giant pain in the ass - any time I had a package shipped FedEx, I knew I was in for a trip to their facility. UPS tried really hard to get the package dropped off. UPS was still 50/50. It never made sense how they could make money with three delivery attempts on every package.

Now? I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a delivery attempt tag.

I’m going to be doing a major renovation on this house we just bought. I’ve been running some ideas through my brain to see about incorporating a parcel door in the mud room - of course getting the delivery people to actually use it might be a challenge.

[Silent3]

57. Even if they do ring the doorbell (I can't remember the last time that happened)...

...I'd have to be standing directly behind the door, waiting for it to ring, if I were ever going to manage to open the door before they were gone.

When a package is left on the porch, that's not so bad. When they give you absolutely no realistic time to respond to be doorbell and leave a missed delivery notice... that's infuriating.

[Blue_Adept]

75. Most delivery services have it set so you can get a text the minute that it's dropped

Amazon sends me a text with a picture of the package.

UPS sends me a notification before the driver is even back in the truck.

FEDEX is about the same as well.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

82. Yeah we get all those notifications.

Sometimes we get a text photo of the item. Sometimes we don’t.

Sometimes it says it was left at the front desk - there is no front desk. Sometimes it says it was left in a secure location - on the front sidewalk isn’t secure. Sometimes it says it was handed to the doorman - there is no doorman.

Sometimes it says it was lost/damaged in transit and we have to reorder. We learned to wait because we end up with two items. This is usually after several “it’s delayed” messages.


My point is, the retailers and the shippers don’t care. So I don’t see any point in locking people up for decades because a bunch of scared angry shut-ins have themselves worked up into a tizzy over this supposed crimewave they heard about on Facebook and in their local penny saver.

I mean seriously. We have people talking about 3 strikes, work farms, and people dying because they didn’t get their medication.

[USALiberal]

39. Good!!! Nt

[ZonkerHarris]

40. They really ramp it up during the holidays to steal peoples Christmas presents

They really ramp it up during the holidays to steal peoples Christmas presents

[live love laugh]

41. The "Lock Her Up" mentality plays right into the hands of RWers who profit off the prison system.

There has to be a better way than ruining lives for an Amazon pkg.

[USALiberal]

50. Don't steal shit off peoples front porch and you won't be arrested. Nt

[Raine]

56. Simply enough, don't commit a jailable offense and there'll be no prisons profiting. nt

[Calculating]

107. Don't steal packages

Seems like an easy way to avoid getting locked up.

[Iggo]

44. The Punishment Fetish is strong in this thread.

[GulfCoast66]

45. I'd call it hating a thief fetish. I've got no problem with it.

Stealing mail, no matter the value has always been a felony. I’ve got no problem extending that to service that now do the same thing.

[Martin68]

47. Oh, c'mon, Iggo, you sound like a parody of a liberal progressive. Are you against penalties of any

kind for theft?

[treestar]

78. Not the point. Either/or thinking

No one said they were against penalties at all - the whole point was making the penalties greater - felony level.

[USALiberal]

51. Go buy a bunch of stuff and hand it out then! Nt

[leftstreet]

54. +1

[Raine]

55. Easy enough to avoid punishment ... Don't steal! nt

[Devil Child]

61. Thats asking too much, that box was just sitting there asking to be stolen

Owner shouldn't have left that delivery outside. Plus I'm sure someone has insurance so no biggie!

[Devil Child]

60. My heart cries out for the poor porch pirates!

Get back to me after having to scramble for replacements of essential mail-delivered meds for an elder family member.

So yeah, punish them.

[Marrah_Goodman]

64. Punishment fetish????

How about some justice for people getting ripped off? Many people simply can't afford to buy things twice. If they continue to be considered misdemeanor, nothing crimes then they will continue to not even be investigated.

[Elessar Zappa]

81. You should see the death penalty threads.

People saying, “I’m generally against the death penalty but in this case….”

[EarthFirst]

86. You're probably the "lock your vehicle..." type...

Whereas it was OUR fault for being burglarized.

[Martin68]

46. Well, duh. It should definitely be felony. Isn't messing with the mail a felony? What's

the difference besides the lack of federal involvement?

[Demsrule86]

58. Bad...it a minor even it is an annoying crime...why don't we just give everyone a felony....

[DavidDvorkin]

62. Minor? That depends on what has been stolen.

[Demsrule86]

104. If an object of a certain value is stolen then it is a felony anyway, but to make every

theft a felony is wrong.

[Marrah_Goodman]

65. Might just be annoying to you

It can be a lot more then just annoying for many reasons for many people.

[Demsrule86]

103. Well I am against targeted justice...hang them high is our motto and when will it end?

[Shellback Squid]

63. good thing

[Sapient Donkey]

67. A felony charge is a big deal that can ruin a life, or at least make it really hard

I don't want to see someone have their lives ruined over theft of a package. However, I also do not want to see people continuously steal packages and get away with it. This isn't just for the people who are victims, but also for the people who are stealing the packages. In my experiences, people who manage to basically get away with such things often times advance to more serious crimes (drugs seem to play a role in this) Then when they get to that level they not only often cause more harm to the victims, but they also end up facing far more severe punishments as a result. My younger brother followed this path, and now I often times wonder if the he didn't get away with so much or have certain amount of enabling from family (myself included), would have he been better off receiving serious, but not life destroying punishment he recently received.

Given what a felony means in our system, I wouldn't want someone to receive that level of punishment over relatively harmless crime. There may be exceptions. Such as someone knowingly stealing medical related packages that cause actual harm (stealing medicine someone needs to survive) Repeat offenders should face sentences, but those should be flexible based on how much progress they make in learning how to adjust their behavior. In some cases it may end up being that the person knows what they were doing was wrong, but they literally they had limited options to feed their kid. That person needs to be handled different than someone who is a career criminal that doesn't understand or doesn't care about the harm they cause. I don't really know how to handle the people fall into that arena, but I don't think the majority of people fall into that category. I don't want to ruin people's lives because they made some foolish choices. If someone is incarcerated (which might be needed) then make sure the have the cognitive training, addiction therapy, and educational training to make it less likely that they will repeat the behavior.

Also, stop making it so that a past criminal conviction makes life so difficult. I'm ranting. I just find our criminal justice system backward and counterproductive.

[Marrah_Goodman]

73. These porch pirates don't just do it once

They do it over and over and over. They can easily cause a lot of financial harm to a family/person. They do it knowing that no one will really investigate and if they do get caught they get a dlsp on the wrist. Even if it is the USPS and is a federal crime, nothing is done.

[Sapient Donkey]

74. I understand that and I do believe there should be consequences.

As I mentioned, I am not in favor of overly relaxed consequences. I think those ultimately can cause far more problems for everyone. My issue is with elevating it to the level of a felony. There may be some exceptions where that is warranted, but as general guideline I find it to be draconian and disproportionate. This is even if the person only spends a year in prison for the crime. The ongoing effects of a felony on their record can have life-long implications. Particularly if the person doesn't have the support system or resources to get past the extra challenges put in front of them even after finishing their sentence.

I would prefer for felonies to be applied only to the most serious of crimes, and for people who are seemingly unable to correct their behavior. But even then, I feel like we need to make some major adjustments to how we handle punishment before I feel comfortable saying non-violent offenders should receive harsh sentences.

I've never viewed myself a "bleeding heart" or whatever. I feel like it's the pragmatic approach to reducing crimes. For example, we give someone a felony charge because they stole a package. They get a five year sentence in which they serve the vast majority of the time in prison. That's 4 years of their life gone. They might have some basic opportunities available to rehabilitate. but the real focus is on making them pay. When they get out they have a hard time finding work with their record. They have certain requirements they have to meet as part of their supervision. Good chance they have fines that they need to pay. In addition to having a hard time finding a job, they will also have a hard time finding a place to live. This likely funnels people into a location where they are around other people with a similar past, and who are also struggling to live under the difficult situation. This is breeding ground for bad ideas and solutions to fix their problems. This is even more an issue if drugs are issue for the person (drugs help people cope with difficult situations) Those bad ideas lead to crimes, more victims, more harm, and more incarceration.

Obviously this an issue that goes beyond the discussion about making package thievery a felony, but that counterproductive system is why I don't see how stealing some packages warrants that level of punishment. If we fix how we do things, then I would have no problem with incarcerating people for however long it takes for them to be rehabilitated to the point where people much smarter than I feel confident that the person is unlikely to re-offend. That might be six months, a year, two years, or maybe five in extreme cases with re-offenders.

[Marrah_Goodman]

85. Unfortunately police depts won't even bother investigating misdemeanors

And the USPS could care less about the problem.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

98. I have news for you. They don't "investigate" most felonies. They take reports and have you...

… call your insurance company.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

95. Agreed.

And let’s not forget how, in real life, these laws will get applied.

Be prepared for for some kid, probably a brown kid, getting charged with a felony while playing ding dong ditch and stealing a newspaper.

[Polybius]

94. Simple solution: Don't steal packages

Don't get a felony.

[treestar]

77. The solution always being to make stricter criminal penalties

now we have too many felons to deal with.

It's annoying, but if the value is low enough, it's a misdemeanor.

It clearly does not work to handle every problem as a criminal matter and merely increasing the criminal labels and penalties.

[Elessar Zappa]

79. Depends on the value.

I’m not for incarceration for $100 items. We already have too many in prison.

[jcmaine72]

83. Just what we need as a nation right now

More laws that incarcerate more people for greater lengths of time.

[ripcord]

84. People could just stop stealing

[jcmaine72]

88. Or we could actually start addressing the reasons why people steal

Poverty, desperation, social/racial injustice, etc.

Na, let's just lock 'em all up and let Jeebus sort them out. Hoorah for capitalism!

[Calculating]

108. Some are just lazy and don't care

Thieves can go screw themselves. Do the words "though shalt not steal" mean nothing these days?

[jcmaine72]

110. Those words never meant anything to the downtrodden and oppressed.

And no God with any real sense of logic or justice would ever utter those words as if all life occurred inside a vacuum completely devoid of poverty and injustice, let alone issue them as a commandment.

[live love laugh]

111. +1

[Marrah_Goodman]

87. I have no problem locking up thieves.

Just let everyone with pot arrests out and that frees up a lot of room. People act like theft is no big deal until it happens to them. If you are lucky, you are financially able to weather it.

[jcmaine72]

90. "I have no problem licking up thieves." Really? Blah!

As long as they're not being licked against their will I have no problem with that....I guess.

EDIT: Oh, locking. Thanks for editing your post. For a second there things got a little strange.

[Marrah_Goodman]

91. Lmao, I really should proof read before I hit post!

[jcmaine72]

92. LOL! It happens to us all.

I knew what you meant, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to tease you.

[Marrah_Goodman]

99. That was a DUzy!!

[DFW]

89. No one knows what is in the package they are stealing

Usually, anyway. Obviously if it is heavy and says „Tesla“ on it, it is probably not cookie samples.

I have seen a few videos from houses whose owners were away, and were victimized by porch pirates. The thieves made no attempt to determine the contents. They just grabbed packages and ran to a nearby car with a driver and the motor running.

However, the fact that the thieves were willing to systematically drive from house to house and steal left packages is disgusting. These are obviously not people trying to feed starving kids, and nor do they give a rat‘s ass if they are stealing needed medicine or nail polish samples. These are heartless, uncaring people. Throw the book at ‚em for all I care. I married a social worker and I know how some people desperately depend on these deliveries. If the thieves don‘t care, then I don‘t care what happens to them.

[Polybius]

93. How could anyone think this is bad?

Last edited Sun Jul 11, 2021, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Seriously, screw these low-lives, give them time in the pen.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

97. Lol. The pen?

[fescuerescue]

101. It's contrary to a current trend of de-criminalizing shoplifting

SO it will probably accelerate Amazon and online shopping and put even more pressure on storefronts.

[Crunchy Frog]

106. I have no problem with it.

[Calista241]

112. I wonder if in 10 years we'll have a shitload of African Americans in jail for this.

And people will be decrying our racist justice system and how it imprisons people for minor crimes like porch piracy. How we should treat these laws like marijuana is treated now.