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CousinIT

(12,541 posts)
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 09:12 AM Jul 2021

'Hey The Guardian, I rewrote this article on 'violence against women' for you'

https://agnesotzelberger.medium.com/hey-the-guardian-i-rewrote-this-article-on-violence-against-women-for-you-4c480e12188b

Dear Guardian,

Let’s start with a guy’s words — those tend to carry more weight than those of a woman, right? — : Jackson Katz says the term ‘violence against women’ is ‘a passive construction, there’s no active agent in the sentence…nobody is doing it to them. It just happens to them, men aren’t even a part of it.’ Surely, I thought, after #metoo and Sarah Everard, the conversation might have changed? But no.

When I spotted this recent article among your news headlines, I counted for you.

The number of times you mention ‘women’, ‘girls’, or ‘female’? Twenty-nine. Thirty-four if you include the mention of the names of the women abducted, raped and killed as well as the stock photo at the top, which also features a woman.

The number of times you talk about ‘men’, ‘boys’ or ‘male’: Zero.

Not a single mention of the demographic we really need to be talking about and supporting to end this epidemic: The demographic who reportedly committed, for example, 98% of reported cases of rape and assault by penetration in 2019/20, or constituted the majority (92%) of defendants in domestic abuse-related prosecutions in 2018/19 in the UK. Or the men who killed the victims named in this piece.

Violence against women is not a ‘women’s issue’. It is, by and large, a men’s issue. And publishing a 580-word article about this epidemic of violence without mentioning the demographic behind this violence in a single word is a (not so) subtle but effective form of victim blaming. . . .


MUCH more at the link. It's ALL worth a read! https://agnesotzelberger.medium.com/hey-the-guardian-i-rewrote-this-article-on-violence-against-women-for-you-4c480e12188b
55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Hey The Guardian, I rewrote this article on 'violence against women' for you' (Original Post) CousinIT Jul 2021 OP
Profound malaise Jul 2021 #1
Yes it is. NT enough Jul 2021 #2
It's worth the click to read her edits. They are powerful! CrispyQ Jul 2021 #3
Absolutely spot on! niyad Jul 2021 #4
Very good points! Thanks flying_wahini Jul 2021 #5
Excellent. sinkingfeeling Jul 2021 #6
k and R riversedge Jul 2021 #7
You got it. K/R appalachiablue Jul 2021 #8
K&R Solly Mack Jul 2021 #9
Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way PatSeg Jul 2021 #10
Exactly! It's always our problem! LittleGirl Jul 2021 #12
Women take most of the blame and pay most of the price PatSeg Jul 2021 #17
I'm getting really tired of the headlines LittleGirl Jul 2021 #18
It starts when they are young PatSeg Jul 2021 #19
"self-centered jerks who think the world revolves around them and their wants and needs" KS Toronado Jul 2021 #22
Then they wonder why their wife leaves them PatSeg Jul 2021 #28
I did my part too. Raising a good son. calimary Jul 2021 #29
Hey, that sounds like MY son you're talking about! :) PatSeg Jul 2021 #30
We're just lucky, I guess! calimary Jul 2021 #46
My daughter was pretty easy when she was young PatSeg Jul 2021 #51
Interestingly dianaredwing Jul 2021 #41
Rules of misogyny Ellen Forradalom Jul 2021 #32
Wow, that cut to the bone PatSeg Jul 2021 #33
Reminds me of something I read wnylib Jul 2021 #45
Apparently, it took a woman's perspective PatSeg Jul 2021 #49
Wow... What woman hasn't experienced this.. and yet it still hits so hard chia Jul 2021 #48
Here you go Ellen Forradalom Jul 2021 #54
Thanks. Second link from Twitter - good lord.. the tweets following re: why patriarchy is good and chia Jul 2021 #55
I was speaking with a sibling about an old family story about a malaise Jul 2021 #44
Like she cast some evil female spell on him PatSeg Jul 2021 #50
I don't care how women are malaise Jul 2021 #52
Yes, it shows a lack of integrity and character PatSeg Jul 2021 #53
I have been screaming this for a decade! LittleGirl Jul 2021 #11
#MeToo was a fool's errand Sympthsical Jul 2021 #13
Hell yes! Borchkins Jul 2021 #14
The Guardian is a good paper. That does not make it a perfect paper. malthaussen Jul 2021 #15
K&R smirkymonkey Jul 2021 #16
What a difference words make, excellent article PoliWrangler Jul 2021 #20
Fantastic seta1950 Jul 2021 #21
WaPo last week had a similar article about a "woman's issue" Warpy Jul 2021 #23
"Why are you... Whatthe_Firetruck Jul 2021 #40
Hell to the YES! sarchasm Jul 2021 #24
A great example of a rewrite exercise I had my students do in order to understand "agency." ancianita Jul 2021 #25
Wow cate94 Jul 2021 #26
Absolutely excellent! Wild blueberry Jul 2021 #27
DURec leftstreet Jul 2021 #31
K&R! chowder66 Jul 2021 #34
Great point! Btw, we moms of boys... Duppers Jul 2021 #35
Fathers too TexasBushwhacker Jul 2021 #37
Moms have taught that for thousands of years Warpy Jul 2021 #42
K & R BadgerMom Jul 2021 #36
Excellent if..fish..had..wings Jul 2021 #38
Case and point! Percy Jul 2021 #39
Misogyny runs deep dlk Jul 2021 #43
K&R Blue Owl Jul 2021 #47

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
10. Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 10:37 AM
Jul 2021

Reminds me how any discussions about unwanted pregnancies, abortions, and birth control rarely mention men, as if they have absolutely nothing to do with the issues.

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
17. Women take most of the blame and pay most of the price
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 10:57 AM
Jul 2021

Meanwhile, men tend to make all the rules that affect women the most.

LittleGirl

(8,999 posts)
18. I'm getting really tired of the headlines
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 11:01 AM
Jul 2021

Woman raped and the court slaps his wrist .
We have an epidemic of violent men, some with guns, that are walking free.
Where is this going to end?

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
19. It starts when they are young
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 11:20 AM
Jul 2021

We need to raise better men. I did my part, but so many parents raise self-centered jerks who think the world revolves around them and their wants and needs. I was determined that my son would not be that way.

KS Toronado

(23,727 posts)
22. "self-centered jerks who think the world revolves around them and their wants and needs"
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 11:37 AM
Jul 2021

Pretty well describes Qrump and the entire reQublican party doesn't it?

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
28. Then they wonder why their wife leaves them
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 12:16 PM
Jul 2021

and no one will date them. "Put another log on the fire and come tell me why you're leaving me" - should be their theme song.

calimary

(90,021 posts)
29. I did my part too. Raising a good son.
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 12:26 PM
Jul 2021

SO proud of his character, kindness, intellect, humor, wisdom, compassionate problem-solving, and consideration of others. He’s a gift to the world.

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
30. Hey, that sounds like MY son you're talking about! :)
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 12:41 PM
Jul 2021

You know, it would have been really easy for him to turn out to be a total jerk. For some reason, boys tend to expect more from their mothers and I've watched many mothers give into the demands. I was visiting a friend when her son came home, walked right past the refrigerator, went into the living room to watch TV, and then yelled to his mom to get him a coke! And she did!

I've been around so many mothers like that and if they also have daughters, it is a completely different story. The girls had to be home by a certain time and were expected to help with dishes and laundry, whereas the boys could do pretty much whatever they wanted and get waited on as well. If they can get anyone to marry them, they often end up surprised that their wife doesn't act like their mother did. Then they can go to the bar and commiserate with their buddies or maybe plan an insurrection, cuz "poor me".

calimary

(90,021 posts)
46. We're just lucky, I guess!
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 10:19 PM
Jul 2021

Good Grief but I love that kid!

I love my other kid, too, but the stars were always aligned so much more smoothly for her. In fact, I still clearly remember when I took my first look at her the night she was born, and they laid her in my arms for the first time, I just instantly got this strong intense feeling of "I'm not gonna have to worry about you." And that's exactly how it went! Our son, on the other hand, was a different story. But he got through the rough parts and is a huge point of pride for all of us! I swear, sometimes it felt like whatever his big sister never had to deal with - he did have to deal with, and all of it in double helpings.

No wonder my hair started turning white in my 40s!

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
51. My daughter was pretty easy when she was young
Thu Jul 15, 2021, 09:14 AM
Jul 2021

though we went through a few difficult teenage years. My son was a constant challenge for many years. It didn't help that I had to raise him on my own and he had a natural rebellious streak and an explosive temper. I began to appreciate what "Rebel Without a Cause" meant. After many years of struggle, he turned out to be the most even tempered, easy-going person you could hope to meet. A devoted, loyal husband and a hands-on loving father, he has far exceeded everyone's expectations.

It did take a lot out of me over the years, but it definitely was worth it. Learning to become a compassionate, civilized human being was a tough road for him, but his reward was twin boys of his own. He is being the father he never had, plus the boys are unlikely to get away with anything, because he's already walked that path. Of course as a mother, the irony of it all does not escape me.

dianaredwing

(406 posts)
41. Interestingly
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 06:30 PM
Jul 2021

I was thinking about this very topic during my cat's normal 3 AM wake up call when she wants out but she cannot go out.

While trying to get back to sleep after she finally gave up yowing in my ear I thought about my siblings, 2 sisters and 2 brothers, all younger than me by 5-10 years.

My father left when I was 8 or so. We still saw him, but he lived across the state line. In any case, he was not a father who contributed to our welfare and my mother had to do it on her own with the help of the state and family.

For the most part, my two brothers and youngest sister grew up without a father. And, my mother died when they were still in school. And yet, neither of my brothers has ever abused a woman and neither speaks disparagingly of women. They are both in long term marriages. My sister has two sons, neither of which is anti-female. I know that my mother did not specifically teach them anything about male/female relationships as she didn't with me. We had a large extended family, most of whom were married and with chlldren, but our family group was relatively insular. Where did my brothers learn their feminist ways?

My mother had a vary hands-off rearing style and I know that none of my siblings were beaten. We lived in a small, relatively conservative town and most were still Eisenhower republicans even after Kennedy.

However, I do know that none of us ever expected a free ride. We were expected to work and to take care of ourselves. Perhaps that lends itself to a more egalitarian view of people in general, regarless of gender, race, or ethnicity?

Ellen Forradalom

(16,187 posts)
32. Rules of misogyny
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 01:46 PM
Jul 2021

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

The original nine were formulated by TheBewilderness, but the list has been expanded. Relevant here is “10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.”

wnylib

(26,016 posts)
45. Reminds me of something I read
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 07:54 PM
Jul 2021

about Gold Meir, when she was Prime Minister of Israel. There was a rash of rape attacks in Tel Aviv. Someone suggested imposing a curfew on women to protect them. Meir said it should be a curfew on men since women were not the ones committing the crime.

chia

(2,817 posts)
48. Wow... What woman hasn't experienced this.. and yet it still hits so hard
Thu Jul 15, 2021, 06:53 AM
Jul 2021

I'm gonna have to look for that list

chia

(2,817 posts)
55. Thanks. Second link from Twitter - good lord.. the tweets following re: why patriarchy is good and
Sat Jul 17, 2021, 07:31 AM
Jul 2021

why bikinis are for whores... mind-boggling and depressing.

malaise

(296,114 posts)
44. I was speaking with a sibling about an old family story about a
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 06:38 PM
Jul 2021

Cousin who promised. His best friend he’d keep an eye on his fiancé when he went off ton college. Then he slep with his best friend’s fiancé. My sibling blamed the woman. I was so angry.

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
50. Like she cast some evil female spell on him
Thu Jul 15, 2021, 08:44 AM
Jul 2021

Of course, women are not always blameless, but in our society, men so often are not held accountable, sometimes not even considered part of the equation. I think one reason that men especially don't hold other men accountable, is because on some level they know that they might do the same thing. It is like they are preemptively excusing their own behavior.

malaise

(296,114 posts)
52. I don't care how women are
Thu Jul 15, 2021, 09:58 AM
Jul 2021

If you promise your best friend, you keep that promise. People -even women- love to blame women.

PatSeg

(53,214 posts)
53. Yes, it shows a lack of integrity and character
Thu Jul 15, 2021, 10:13 AM
Jul 2021

I agree that even women love to blame women, like we are all evil temptresses, seducing men against their will.

LittleGirl

(8,999 posts)
11. I have been screaming this for a decade!
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 10:41 AM
Jul 2021

I’m glad someone was willing to put it in words for me!
Thank you for sharing this.

This is a must read!

Sympthsical

(10,969 posts)
13. #MeToo was a fool's errand
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 10:49 AM
Jul 2021

It mattered for like a day. Actors wore ribbons. It was super important! Didn't you see them at award shows signaling to you how much they cared?!

And then it all stopped. They lasted an awards show season. What more could you possibly ask?

I am fortunate to work with strong women. My corporate boss is a woman. The people under me are women. They catch a lot of this shit. I would, too. But as soon as I start composing the email, no, I already have three emails. They got it.

I'm just tired of virtue signalling. Oh, you all got it? It's all ok now? I didn't know! Thank god Twitter fixed this.

As an HR manager, so frustrated about all of it.

But we do what we can.

malthaussen

(18,572 posts)
15. The Guardian is a good paper. That does not make it a perfect paper.
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 10:53 AM
Jul 2021

Some of their editorials can be real teeth-clenchers.

-- Mal

Warpy

(114,615 posts)
23. WaPo last week had a similar article about a "woman's issue"
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 11:43 AM
Jul 2021

that was so badly researched and written and tiptoed abound the tender feelings of males that a quarter of the way into it, I though it had to be written by a man. Sure enough, Ian something or other. I can't tell you what the article was, I blocked it out of my memory, it was that worthless.

Editors need to stop assigning men to report on women unless it's a puff piece about a beauty contest. "Not all men" takes over and they tend to gloss over the root of the problem, a culture of visceral misogyny with its origins in adolescence and which many of them never seem to shake off once they grow up.

The rewrite was great. I'd have lasted as long reading the original article as I did with the WaPo article. Men hate to admit their fathers, sons, brothers, and buddies are the problem. But they are.

That rewrite was great. It didn't blame all men, it just identified the problem as one men need to deal with. Women are only the punching bags, they don't punch themselves.

Whatthe_Firetruck

(610 posts)
40. "Why are you...
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 06:05 PM
Jul 2021

...punching yourself?" *punch* "Why are you punching yourself?" *punch* "Why are you punching yourself?" *punch* "Why are you..."

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
25. A great example of a rewrite exercise I had my students do in order to understand "agency."
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 11:49 AM
Jul 2021




Duppers

(28,469 posts)
35. Great point! Btw, we moms of boys...
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 03:08 PM
Jul 2021

...need to teach our sons to love and respect our gender and not allow this misogyny to continue.

TexasBushwhacker

(21,204 posts)
37. Fathers too
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 03:13 PM
Jul 2021

Children learn by example. No one should perpetrate abuse and no one should accept it.

Warpy

(114,615 posts)
42. Moms have taught that for thousands of years
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 06:33 PM
Jul 2021

When the kid hits puberty, his buddies take over. If we're lucky, he starts to grow up ten years later and reject that culture, but some of them never do, like TFG.

Percy

(721 posts)
39. Case and point!
Wed Jul 14, 2021, 05:52 PM
Jul 2021

Her edits say it all. The Guardian journalist should reprint the article with the changes she made - in solidarity with her!

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