Mask up even if vaccinated. Even if Vaccinated!

[StClone]

Early data suggested good protection from a complete Covid from Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.

However! I got the Delta variant last week, as did my wife, as did my coworker all fully vaccinated! I had finally left my guard down when there were no recent Covid cases in my area.

Get an N-95, or whatever you can. This Delta bug is HIGHLY contagious as any virus can be and I don't need to remind you of the consequences.

MASK UP EVERYBODY WE ARE IN A BAD PLACE!

[Ms. Toad]

1. Never stopped - and thank you for spreading the word. n/t

[PortTack]

2. Never took mine off! At the grocery just now, I was only one of a half dozen ppl with a mask

Plenty of sideways glances..fine. Those without masks are soon going to be masking up...hopefully

[Treefrog]

16. I guess I just don't pay attention to whether others are looking at me or not.

Never noticed and wouldn’t care.

I read some of the stories of “mask comments” here, and am so grateful that I seem to live around good people. I’ve never had anyone say anything say anything to me about a mask in my red town where I spend most of my time.

I travel a lot also, and I’ve never had these unpleasant interactions I read about on this site.

[Mr.Bill]

62. I think at this point when people stare at you

when you are wearing a mask, they are thinking you are not vaccinated.

[MoonchildCA]

131. Honestly, when I see people unmasked, I think they are also unvaccinated.

At least the majority of them.
Anti-maskers and anti-vaxers are the same people.

That being said, my husband is “vaxed” and doesn’t wear a mask, so my assumption is not fool-proof.

[certainot]

165. keeps them on their toes. if unvaxxed people see people with masks some might think twice, again....

another way to keep them on their toes is to pretend cough once in a while

[TexasBushwhacker]

125. Most people are still masking where I live in Houston

but they probably aren't in Amarillo.

[LeftInTX]

192. Masks have gone out the window in San Antonio

My daughter is immunized and caught delta. She works with children, so the children are the ones at risk, my daughter is fine. She's stuck at home with nasty cold symptoms, which isn't fun, but she's not a risk of being hospitalized or anything.

I see mask wearing as protecting others and not myself....I'm vaccinated. I'm also sick, but my Covid test is negative. I attribute being so sick due to masking up for 18 months. Hubby and I both have colds and they are nasty. We were convinced it was Covid, but our tests were negative. Hubby is complaining, "I've never been this sick in my life. It's gotta be Covid"....Na...our immune systems are not the same as they were before we did not expose ourselves to colds and germs for 18 months.

[Throck]

3. My mind is going explode.

N-95, KN-95 and the various fashion masks are not designed to filter particles as small as viruses on the micron level.

Is vaccine working or not working?

How sick are people getting?

There's so much conflicting information.

[samnsara]

6. we need fashionable N-95s!

[appalachiablue]

58. Yes! At least several more colors, please

The standard molded white ones look like something guys wear to play sports..

[voteearlyvoteoften]

128. There are black n95 masks available.

Found on amazon or ebay

[Texin]

166. I wear KN-95 masks from VIDA.

This isn't intended as a commercial, but they have high quality masks of several varieties. They're a bit more expensive but they last a good while longer than any others I've worn throughout this ordeal. I'm fully vaccinated, but I wear them in public. I'm going to start wearing one in the house with any visitors - even if I know they're also fully vaccinated too. The Delta variant is too transmissible to let one's guard down as it can and does cause breakthrough infections.

[StClone]

7. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the effective.

An N-95 blocks 95% down to 3 microns. The covid virus is 6 to 1.4 microns. The aim is not to block all viral particles but to decrease the amount able to get in at one time to avoid overwhelming the body's defenses.

[Zeitghost]

22. The COVID virus

The COVID Virus is about 0.1 Microns.

[LisaL]

25. N95 will still work.

"The COVID-19 virus itself is indeed smaller than the N95 filter size, but the virus always travels attached to larger particles that are consistently snared by the filter. And even if the particles were smaller than the N95 filter size, the erratic motion of particles that size and the electrostatic attraction generated by the mask means they would be consistently caught as well."


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/

[Pinback]

72. Important factoid. Thanks. (nt)

[chia]

78. Thank you for this!

[Tadpole Raisin]

89. You're going to laugh but

If a virus (any virus) mutated to something so virulent that masks were only a partial defense my solution would be to put a small loose bandaid on under the mask that had a few drops of iodine on it. Being that iodine is a potent antibacterial, antifungal, and antiviral agent the vapors under the mask would kill the sucker quickly.

We are not anywhere near there and I don’t expect to be but I have the 2% Lugols in my emergency kit. It’s good for lots of things anyway (like candles and batteries).

Told ya you’d laugh….

[wnylib]

97. Thanks. This is good to know since

I have wondered about it, too.

Another possibility is to double mask, combining a cloth mask with a disposable blue surgical mask. The surgical mask has 3 layers (ultra thin, but effective due to the type of materials), and can be adjusted snugly at the nose, but leaves gaps at the cheeks. A good cloth mask has at least 2 layers, and is adjustable at the nose and ear loops. They should have little sliding plastic adjusters on the loops to pull the cheeks tighter or looser.

Between the two, the disposable surgical mask seals best at the nose and the cloth mask, worn over the surgical one, seals at the cheeks. The multiple layers of different materials act as filters.

I have several Hanes 3 layer, 100% tightly woven cloth masks. They do not have adjusters at the ear loops, but they are small and leave no cheek gaps. Since they are smaller than surgical masks, I wear the surgical mask over the cotton one.

I also have a box of 3M N95 masks, model #9010.

[Ms. Toad]

137. My cloth masks seal tightly all the way around.

One of the hospitals I go to insists I wear a surgical mask that gaps by at least a half an inch at the sides. So I put it under my cloth mask so that it adds a layer of filtration, but does not add gaps.

I don't really think adding a mask that gaps at the sides over the top of a tightly sealed mask helps much, since air is going to head for the path of least resistance (so it will be pulled in from the cheek gaps). It still has to go through my cloth mask - but it's still hitting the outer surface of my cloth mask relatively unfiltered.

[wnylib]

155. That's probably true for most

surgical masks and for many faces. I have a box of surgical masks that have a flat, thin "rubbery" or flexible border at the edges so that they fit flat against my face with no gap. I also have prominent cheekbones and convex cheeks that fill out the surgical mask well. The Hanes 3 layer cotton masks fit snugly over my cheeks. When I put the surgical mask over the cotton one, I have a good seal from both of them.

I got the surgical masks at CVS. They are labeled as "medical" masks. I considered that a meaningless advertising point when I bought them, but I wonder now if it refers to the flat edge that seals well. At any rate, both the cloth and surgical masks that I have leave no gaps. My Hanes cotton masks are too small and snugly fitting to fit over another mask. When I put on glasses, there is no air escape to fog them up.

Mask styles and face shapes vary, so I think people need to find what fits and seals well for them.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

108. Masks and social distancing works

The water particles that carry the virus are stopped by masks. Delta is dangerous because it generate more virus particles

[StClone]

27. Yes. But the that is an individual isolated viral particle at it's most extreme.

Viral particles are often adhering to much larger particles or moisture droplets. If you are saying we should all wear respirators I agree! There is yet to be an affordable level of filtration, and breathable, beyond the N-95 fiber filtration materials.

With two kids in the medical profession, I get plenty of first-hand, real-world knowledge of this stuff.

[GulfCoast66]

95. But unlike measles is not small enough to free float.

It hitched a ride on droplets from your nose and mouth. They do get filtered out.

[Hugin]

167. This is the first time I've seen a report of the size of the COVID virus.

Another question answered.

Thanks.

[Arkansas Granny]

8. My understanding is that the masks filter the aerosol droplets that the virus is attached to.

I could be wrong. I will continue to wear my kn-95 mask.

[StClone]

11. Good and accurate point!

[StarryNite]

13. That's my understanding as well.

I'm still masking, never stopped.

[samnsara]

4. i rarely go into town and carry my mask in full sight and put it on if the area is crowded

..I may just keep it on all the time again. Our county has a low infection rate so far.

[LisaL]

5. What kind of symptoms did you have?

NT

[StClone]

10. Well first there was intestinal

It was like every 1/2 hour to the bathroom the first 18 hours. Headache, achy, sore throat, cough. Now I have lost a lot of my sense of smell and sweat when I sleep though my body temperature is under 99F. Now confusion, tiredness, cough, and sneezing almost a week into this.

[LisaL]

12. Sounds very unpleasant.

[StClone]

14. You made me feel better with response!

Worst of all? Gotta admit I can't be out in the garden. So deer have made hay in my absence in a brief check.

[greatauntoftriplets]

43. Back again and spreading peudoscience?

Oy.

[ShazzieB]

59. Back again, but not for long! 😆

[greatauntoftriplets]

61. No, not for long.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

109. Did you try monoclonal antibodies

I am fully vaccinated but I have COPD and other risk factors. I planned to get tested if I am worried and then get monoclonal antibodies if I am positive as soon as possible

[uponit7771]

118. +1

[MyMission]

150. Here's some bad news about monoclonal antibodies and Delta variant

Reduced sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 variant Delta to antibody neutralization

...Delta, is believed to spread faster than other variants. Here, we isolated an infectious Delta strain from a traveller returning from India. We examined its sensitivity to monoclonal antibodies (mAbs) and to antibodies present in sera from COVID-19 convalescent individuals or vaccine recipients, in comparison to other viral strains. Variant Delta was resistant to neutralization by some anti-NTD and anti-RBD mAbs including Bamlanivimab, which were impaired in binding to the Spike. Sera from convalescent patients collected up to 12 months post symptoms were 4 fold less potent against variant Delta, relative to variant Alpha (B.1.1.7). Sera from individuals having received one dose of Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines barely inhibited variant Delta. Administration of two doses generated a neutralizing response in 95% of individuals, with titers 3 to 5 fold lower against Delta than Alpha. Thus, variant Delta spread is associated with an escape to antibodies targeting non-RBD and RBD Spike epitopes.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34237773/

I'd read a non-scientific article about this recently, stating that antibody therapy is not as effective with the Delta variant. I was looking for it and found this one.

So getting some antibodies may help, but may not.

Wear a mask!

[DFW]

9. Second the motion

We are a long way from being out of the woods yet. We hate it, but we'd hate getting sick more.

[totodeinhere]

15. You are contradicting the latest advice from both the CDC and the Biden Administration's Covid

task force. And let me guess. If you had a breakthrough infection I bet your symptoms were mild and you did not need hospitalization. Right?

[StarryNite]

19. There is still the potential to spread it to those who cannot be vaccinated.

For instance kids 11 and under cannot yet be vaccinated.

[totodeinhere]

23. Fully vaccinated people are much less likely to spread it.

Of course there is a slight risk but life is full of risks. I take a risk every time I drive my car. Should I stop driving because of the slight risk or an accident?

[Alice Kramden]

26. Masks are like seat belts in your scenario

A reasonable safety measure, not a guarantee of zero harm

[deurbano]

85. Great analogy.

[Alice Kramden]

164. .

[Ms. Toad]

138. And, since they are not guarantees of zero harm,

we combine them with air bags.

Kind of like adding masks on top of vaccination.

[Alice Kramden]

163. Agree

Exactly

[LanternWaste]

75. Fallacious analogy. Wearing a mask denies you nothing.

And, as no one is arguing life holds zero risk, I'm wondering why you're arguing against a point no one has made.

Seems irrational on your part.

At best.

[totodeinhere]

91. No. If fully vaccinated people continue to wear masks they are are trying to avoid a risk.

But as you agreed, life has risks. I think we need to accept that and move on.

[Thtwudbeme]

99. Not "we." You.

Last edited Sun Jul 25, 2021, 01:10 PM - Edit history (2)

Below you said you weren't going to "live in fear."

A piece of cloth over your face is nothing to be afraid of.

Living in fear is knowing the company you work for is going to shut down, and you have a family to house and feed.

Living in fear is having a child that is sick, and not knowing how you are going to pay medical bills.

Living in fear is having a friend, family member or spouse that gets the new strain and having long haul issues with their heart or other organs and wondering if they are going to die young because they couldn't be inconvenienced.

Perhaps those analogies will help you get a better understanding of "living in fear." --- wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience, and the hyperbole you used to express yourself makes no sense.

[totodeinhere]

184. I don't appreciate your sexist remark.

I am not your "honey."

[Thtwudbeme]

186. I am from the South- And I will immediately edit my reply

Bless your heart.

[Thtwudbeme]

189. Women in the south call men and women "honey"

It's not sexist by any stretch of the imagination. I am a female. I don't really care how you self identify.

[Crunchy Frog]

107. You do you, but please don't tell the rest of us what to do,

as far as our own risk management choices.

It's just a rude thing to do.

[totodeinhere]

185. I am not telling anyone to do anything.

I am just pointing out what the CDC guidelines say.

[Thtwudbeme]

190. The CDC guidelines are not the "gold standard."

Look at every major medical organization- they still suggest masks. John Hopkins is the link I used in a response to you. Try the WHO.

The CDC has been politicized and is frankly not reliable right now- but, I am sure you know that.

[totodeinhere]

191. I never said that the CDC is the gold standard. And neither is any other source.

But the CDC is the organization that the White House Corona Task Force follows for policy. And it may be politicized but its director was nominated by President Biden. In you didn't know, Trump is no longer in office.

[qazplm135]

119. so I take it you're against seat belt laws then

after all, life has risks.

[totodeinhere]

187. The latest and best information indicates that wearing seatbelts increases safety and in my

state wearing one is the law. So I am not against that. But in my state the Democratic governor has said that he will be following CDC guidelines. Therefore masks are not required for the fully vaccinated in most situations. But where they are still required I will wear one.

[Ms. Toad]

141. So did you chop your air bag out of your car,

since we need to accept the risks that using a seat belt only leaves?

That is essentially what you are saying - get rid of the air bag, rather than continuing to use it and have better protection.

[StarryNite]

80. I would literally 'take a bullet' to save my grandson's life.

So why the hell wouldn't I wear a mask to protect him? A mask is such a small inconvenience.

[qazplm135]

116. are you seriously comparing

wearing a mask to giving up driving?

I hope not because that's a really stupid analogy.

[Ms. Toad]

140. It is not a slight risk.

Out of a delegation of 55 fully vaccinated Texans, 6 (that we know of) have tested positive. Those 6 infected two other fully vaccinated people (that we know of). Good thing they didn't go visit a vaccinated elementary school teacher, who would then have passed it on to her entire class since they have no protection at all.

[MyMission]

156. I have auto insurance and wear a seatbelt, so can I drive recklessly?

How cold does it have to be for you to wear thermal underwear, and/or a coat, hat, gloves?

How bad does the weather forecast need to be for you to use an umbrella or raincoat? You might not care if you get wet, unless it's really cold and you could freeze.

Those are personal choices. Many people underdress for the weather. Forecasts aren't always reliable, so we need to use common sense, based on our comfort levels. I hate to be wet, cold, or sick. I do what I can to prevent them from happening.

The covid insurance is the mask we wear.
The vaccine is the seatbelt.
Or
The insurance is the vaccine and the seatbelt is the mask.

Either way, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

That's how I see it.

I'd rather be naked, but I wear a mask.

[StClone]

20. "Mild Case" may be a matter of opinion

Of epic day-long diarrhea. Can not remember what you were last doing and can't smell or taste anything. Two weeks off work at replacement wages? Wish I'd continued wearing my 95 (which I wore since June '20). I can take my own health safety beyond the recommendations.

[totodeinhere]

24. Sorry for your symptoms and I hope you get well soon.

But just think if you had not been vaccinated. You would probably be in the hospital.

[StClone]

28. Friend I wonder how bad it would of been. Thanks

[Pinback]

98. Correct. To a doctor, a "mild case" is one that doesn't involve hospitalization.

A few days of feeling like absolute crap, fever & chills, gastrointestinal symptoms, temporary loss of smell and/or taste, cough for weeks -- these are all hallmarks of a "mild" case of COVID.

Definitions of mild, moderate, and severe COVID-19:
https://wfpl.org/coronavirus-symptoms-defining-mild-moderate-and-severe/

[Crunchy Frog]

110. Rachel Maddow's partner had a "mild" case, in that she was never hospitalized,

and she was extremely sick, to the point that they feared for her life.

What gets officially classified as "mild", and what an individual will experience as "mild" are two very different things.

I don't intend to unnecessarily contract a "mild" case by not adequately protecting myself.

[Ms. Toad]

142. I have friends in Provincetown -

who took the CDC at is word July 4 weekend and are now part of a 12.3% positive tests (as opposed to .88% for the rest of the state); theoretically most of the attendees vaccinated..

Some of them now have COVID - and several have been astounded that mild = anything short of hospitalization, and would characterize their disease as anything but mild.

That shocked me (that they didn't understand "mild" is still pretty severe). Perhaps the campaign to get people vaccinated should include a shift in how we refer to the severity of the case.

[Thtwudbeme]

33. Have you read about the long haul symptoms from mild cases?

I have a non-smoking fit friend that had a "mild case," and is winded walking up a flight of stairs now. She's 40 years old.

That alone is worth wearing a mask. If you choose not to, that's fine- please stay at least 6 feet away from people that are choosing to mask.

Like me.

[appalachiablue]

64. +1 Long Haul is very troubling, the

research efforts into this strange condition should be expanded, pronto. I've read the reports on scary, disabling symptoms that last for months in previously healthy people.

[StClone]

76. I know of two people with loss of smell for over one year and counting

That is one of my fears. But, I am thinking of viral infections I have had in the past where my senses were affected and noticed a lessened accuity (at least perceived) once they returned.

I guess thanks for the reminder.

[StarryNite]

114. My daughter is one.

She had been very careful, always masking, hand sanitizer, etc. yet somehow she wound up with a "mild" case of Covid last Oct. Her only symptom was the loss of the sense of taste and smell. Although better, she still does not have them fully back.

[totodeinhere]

88. I have heard of it and I'm sure that the CDC has as well.

They apparently feel that those cases are rare enough that they were not considered when drawing up their latest guidelines. Myself, I am not going to live my life in fear of every possible negative scenario. Otherwise I would just stay home with my head buried under a pillow. Life naturally comes with some risk.

[Thtwudbeme]

93. How is wearing a mask "living in fear?"

It's a pretty simple thing that could keep you from having long term health problems. Are you afraid of a mask for some reason?

[totodeinhere]

101. I'm not afraid of it but the risk of my having long term health problems is so

small that it's not worth worrying about. I think we all put up with risks as bad or worse than that risk all the time.

I hear a lot of advice to "follow the science." Well that's what I am doing but apparently to some of you that's not good enough.

[Thtwudbeme]

103. Because....you aren't. You are following a politicized (under Trump) organization

You aren't "following science." You don't want to be inconvenienced.

This is from John Hopkins:

Since the coronavirus can spread through droplets and particles released into the air by speaking, singing, coughing or sneezing, masks are still a good idea in crowded indoor public places that contain a mixture of vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.

Wearing a mask is still recommended in health care settings and other places where people around you may have risk factors for severe consequences of COVID-19. These include people over age 65 and those living with heart disease, diabetes, obesity, chronic lung disease, immunity problems or cancer.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know

[uponit7771]

121. The unvaxed should take precautions and adhere to NPI then. I'm not going to inconveniently ...

... wear an extra seatbelt because someone else wants to drive a car without one.

I agree with Macron, its their turn to stay inside

[Ms. Toad]

144. Do you chop your air bag out of your car?

Masks are more akin to an air bag, because seat belts are not fully protective, than an additional seatbelt.

And you do know the quote attributed to Macron was fake, right?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/macron-quote-unvaccinated/

[totodeinhere]

183. I do wear a mask anywhere it is required. But after all, the CDC has a new director

nominated by President Biden. It is no longer under the political influence of the Trump Administration.

[beaglelover]

100. I'm with you.

[totodeinhere]

102. Thank you. n/t

[uponit7771]

123. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 I'm not going to wear an extra seatbelt just to take my probability of a bad ...

... accident down another .004%

[Crunchy Frog]

87. We know of someone who ended up in ICU from a breakthrough infection.

I don't care to get even "mildly" ill, based on OP's description of what he's going through. We also live with my 81 year old mother, and I definitely wouldn't want to see her getting a breakthrough infection.

As far as I'm concerned, the CDC and the Covid task force are just plain WRONG on this. We are all continuing to mask, and have a box of N95s on order.

[uponit7771]

120. Vaxes were never meant to be a preventative from infection but hospitalizations and death ...

... I kept telling people vaxed doesn't mean inoculated

[Crunchy Frog]

126. You might want to look up the definition of the word "inoculated".

It's basically used interchangeably with "vaccination" except when referring to a laboratory situation.

Historically it was used to describe the practice introducing smallpox material into a person to induce a milder and less deadly infection leading to immunity. The term was replaced when Jenner introduced his much safer vaccination.

I think the word that you might be looking for is "immune", as in, unable to become infected.

With the Delta variant, clearly, vaxxed people are far more vulnerable to symptomatic infection than they were with previous variants. While most will be fortunate enough to avoid hospitalization or death, that's not universally the case, and even a "mild" infection can be very unpleasant, and have long term effects.

I feel much safer continuing to mask, especially with infection numbers going up rapidly in my state.

[uponit7771]

127. " that's not universally the case" it is universally the cause, there's only 3% dying or going to ..

... the hospital or dying that are vaxed.

At this point the unvaxed need to take precautions, I agree with Macrons sentiment.

I'm not going to wear an extra seatbelt to lower my chances of bad accident cause some other driver doesn't think seatbelts important.

[Crunchy Frog]

129. Did you read my earlier post? We know of someone who ended up in ICU, fully vaxxed.

You can take whatever risks you feel comfortable with, as far as your own health is concerned. You don't get to tell other people how to manage risks in their own lives.

[uponit7771]

132. Of course, that's expected less than 3% of the vaxed are going to ICU's though and 97% of the

.... ones going or dying is unvaxed.

No one is telling anyone anything other than math, I have greater chances of dying from other viruses than CV19 with the efficacy of the vaxes

[NH Ethylene]

151. The mRNA vaccines were definitely 'sold' as preventing all disease in 90-some-odd percent.

It wasn't until Johnson & Johnson came into use in the US that suddenly it was all about just preventing severe disease and death.

I am fine with the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines, but people forget what was said about them when they were first introduced. They don't quite live up to all the hype, but I am very happy to have the degree of protection that they do offer.

[uponit7771]

161. No they weren't, the data that came out stated plainly what their efficacy was

[NH Ethylene]

170. Yes it did.

On December 11, 2020, this became the first COVID-19 vaccine to receive an Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), after the company reported positive clinical trial data, which included news that the vaccine was up to 95% effective at preventing symptomatic disease.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

There is a big difference between preventing symptomatic disease and preventing serious disease, which is measured by hospitalization or death.

Again, I am happy for the protection I get from Moderna, but people should at least recognize that the measure of success has changed. It was done to make J & J more palatable so we would all get the first vaccine that was available to us.

[uponit7771]

188. NEJM data shows 88% effective against delta and I still never got from the INITITAL studies ...

... early in July (not early Dec) that PREVENTION was the key seeing there was only a 97% efficacy in preventing infection from studies while polio for instance has a 99.9% efficacy.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

[LisaL]

168. mRNA vaccines worked that way against original virus.

They are less effective in preventing delta covid.

[NH Ethylene]

169. Yeah I agree.

It just irks me when people say they were only meant to prevent serious disease all along.

On December 11, 2020, this became the first COVID-19 vaccine to receive an Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), after the company reported positive clinical trial data, which included news that the vaccine was up to 95% effective at preventing symptomatic disease.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

[LisaL]

181. Yep.

mRNA vaccines were very effective preventing infections against the original virus. Delta is much more infectious.
As for J&J, there seem to be a lot of questions how effective it actually is against delta.

[Skittles]

117. it's not all about YOU

please consider OTHER PEOPLE

the CDC completely dropped the ball on masking

[NH Ethylene]

149. Some fully vaccinated people have died.

The chances are low, but if all I have to do is wear a mask in public to avoid that small risk, I'm certainly going to do it.

Public health decisions are influenced by politics. I know there were a number of epidemiologists who were aghast at the CDC decision to no longer advise masks for the vaccinated.

[Hortensis]

17. My husband must go to physical therapy after a shoulder replacement

last month, or live with a crippled arm, so he's back in N95s again. And I'm waiting outside.

My happy feeling of "freedom" from masks and hiding from diseased people lasted most of two weeks.

[CentralMass]

18. Thank you. I haven't stopped masking in public indoor places.

[Duppers]

21. Thank you!! Hubs & I never stopped wearing our N-95's.

Hope a couple of DUers who laughed at me are eating their words now.

[Thtwudbeme]

29. I got laughed at too

Don't care.

[StClone]

30. There are a lot of questionable fashions that are non-sensible

But masks are not one of them! Keep up the good!

[Joinfortmill]

31. Will do.. Feel better.

[StClone]

35. Thanks

[KS Toronado]

32. More on masks..........

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215651113

[HUAJIAO]

34. Infection rate in my area is quite low, but growing. I still wear an N95 inside. Everywhere.

[StClone]

40. Wisdom!

[barbtries]

36. I do. never stopped.

scared of this variant. do you know how you got it?

oh yeah, i hope you and yours have mild cases with speedy, full recoveries!

this vicious virus! these covidiots! damn.

[StClone]

79. An antivaxxer, unmasked co-worker did not follow company protocols

He then got a positive Covid test and very likely infected a co-worker and me. I likely gave it to my wife.

[barbtries]

92. I'll be curious to know

whether he ever owns his own stupidity, and whether his disease is worse than yours.

[marie999]

37. Considering how many people are not vaccinated and don't wear a mask,

the Covid-19 virus will not have any trouble continually making new variants. All we can do is hope that none become immune to vaccines and with a high death rate.

[StClone]

42. Sadly true

[ancianita]

38. Thanks. Down here in FL I double mask. Hope you feel better soon.

[liberal_mama]

55. I just read on Twitter that Florida has over 14,000 new infections today

It's a good thing you are double masking!

[LisaL]

74. Sounds like one needs to triple mask when in Florida.

Yikes.

[ancianita]

90. Last year only left for about a few weeks here.

[Wednesdays]

41. Anyone know where one could find genuine N95 masks online?

Like, I could go to eBay and search "N95," but I'll bet half or more of the results would be counterfeit knock-offs, or masks that are equally ineffective. Same with Amazon, etc.

So, where to find the real deal?

[StClone]

46. For Father's Day Last year my son gave me this:

Yes expensive but it lasted over a year and is easily cleaned, doesn't fog glasses, has replaceable filters, you never touch the mask-only the straps. It is not attractive, but I always got questions on how to get one.

https://store.envomask.com/envomask-n95-respirator-kit-p4.aspx

[Wednesdays]

68. Yes, I'll take a look.

Thanks!

[StClone]

84. Oh and I will add it has very comfortable gel face contacts

On hot days the gel would feel cool. It was the most comfortable mask I ever wore and it stayed in place (didn't need adjustments one in place). It is very highly rated in comfort, fit, and effectiveness.

[tanyev]

57. If you're willing to pay a little more, you can buy directly from Demetech, a U.S. company:

They supply hospitals, etc. There was a news article about them a little while ago about how they wanted to sell more to retail customers, but they weren't getting much business because they are more expensive. I think they sold out after that article, but it looks like they have everything back in stock.

https://shop.demetech.us/collections/n95-respirator-masks/products/n95-respirator-masks-fold-style

[Wednesdays]

71. I'll definitely check it out.

Thank you!

[Crunchy Frog]

105. I just purchased a box of 50, directly through the 3M website.

I ordered the 9502+.

They have a link that sends you to a legitimate 3rd party vendor, so I trust that they're the real deal.

They'll also make you click a couple of boxes affirming that their not for personal use. I went ahead and clicked them, and the sale went through with no problems.

I feel pretty safe purchasing through the 3M site.

[ffr]

44. Indoors, I never stopped. Not even under the constant peer pressure to fit in at work.

Never judged outside of work. The only place I don't wear a mask is outside, but then I social distance. I don't even like it when people stand close to me. I'll just move away. If they move closer again, I give them the back-off hand gesture and they get the idea.

It pays to have confidence. Someday, hopefully, this will pass and things will return to normal. Until then, stand your ground on mask wearing and social distancing. DO NOT crumble to peer pressure. It's coming from the same people who will succumb, should their carelessness come back to haunt them.

[TheRickles]

45. A personal question, if you don't mind.

Do you have any of the known risk factors? Are you obese or elderly, do you have diabetes, did you have cancer chemotherapy, etc.?

That info will help put things in perspective. Thanks.

[StClone]

50. No

Not overweight. Not diabetic. I am over 60. Pretty healthy, take no medications, and is pretty active. Maybe I am more susceptible to viral infections but my co-worker is worse off (female and 56) and my wife is a little less affected. Thanks for the question!

One more note, I'll add. I failed to mention the infection likely came from a Right-wing anti-vaxxer co-worker who didn't mask up. His wife likely infected him.

I will modify that saying "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and share them with your friends!"

[grantcart]

111. Sorry to hear, where do you live?

[The Polack MSgt]

47. I concur. From my quarantine room, in my house, 4 months after my 2nd shot

I should have kept wearing my mask - I live among tumpsters. Shouldn't have trusted the situation to be safe

Those fucks aren't vaccinated, and Delta is just the current variant.

Half the country are volunteering to be petri dishes to cook up another mutation

[Crunchy Frog]

133. Sorry to hear about that. I hope your symptoms aren't too bad,

and that you're better soon.

[YoshidaYui]

48. Here's my mask!!!

Link to tweet

?s=21

[yellowdogintexas]

49. I was cleaning out a room yesterday and found a silk mask

my husband got me ages ago. It is perfect to wear underneath another mask. It was still in the package.

Someone I know who makes masks was putting a square of panty hose material between the layers.

[LisaL]

51. Real silk is a good material for masks.

It is very hydrophobic (repels water).

[yellowdogintexas]

52. If you really want to scare yourself, watch Dr John Campbell

on You Tube. He did a video yesterday about the surge in Israel! Just a couple of weeks ago Israel had the highest Vax rate and the lowest infection rate and Delta has just taken over.

[LisaL]

53. Israel is starting to boost, and we need to.

NT

[scipan]

66. I Second that rec to watch Dr Campbell.

He's a very good teacher and very science based. Also, his compassion really comes through.

[citizen blues]

152. I'll third that!

I was watching him from March 2020 because I'm an obese, 50+, asthmatic woman. He started providing information about Vitamin D, fresh air, staying active, breathing exercises, etc... long before anyone else did. I credit that information as the reason I survived Covid last summer.

He also provided early information about the possibility for a vaccine by reporting on China having been working on a vaccine for SARS 1. Then when SARS 2 (Covid-19) hit, they went back and followed up with patients who had survived SARS 1. After rigorous antibody tests, they found that those patients were actually immune to SARS 2 which was the best news we could have about the prospect of getting a vaccine developed as quickly as possible.

[SharonClark]

54. Took my mom to Aldi this morning.

We decided we’d start wearing our masks again when indoors. Walked into the store and all employees and almost all shoppers were masked, too, although the store no longer has a mask sign.

[gulliver]

56. I'd be interested in a metric of risk (personal and otherwise) vs. the flu risk in a normal year.

For vaccinated people, masking becomes a difficult call, imo. I'll just go with the CDC advice for now, but it would be useful to have some metrics to help make the decision. (I do make exceptions and wear masks if "most peope" are wearing them, just to show support for them.)

What's the difference in net risk to oneself and others of a vaccinated person going maskless everywhere now vs. them doing the same thing when the flu was a much higher risk a couple of years ago? I'm vaccinated against COVID. If my going without a mask now presents substantially less of a total risk than going maskless did in 2018 (when flu was the worry, not COVID), then my decision to go without a mask now seems less problematic than it was in 2018 (when masklessness was the norm).

The unvaccinated are definitely spreading and harboring the virus—in effect giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Their physical risk and moral culpability are much higher than those of us who are vaccinated in my book. It would be interesting to know the numbers.

[KatK]

122. One metric has been proposed for choosing mask or maskless (altho not in comparison to flu)

"Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease doctor at UC San Francisco ... suggests tying mask mandates to the local hospitalization rate — a more reliable measure of disease prevalence than cases — and, along with other experts, has proposed fewer than five hospitalized cases per 100,000 people as the threshold for resuming normal activity."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-07-vaccinated-people-masking.html

Although I believe she's talking about a benchmark for opening up, I will adapt this to help me choose whether to wear a mask outdoors when there are people around.

The data is available at Covid Act Now https://covidactnow.org/ - if you're willing to do a little math.

For any US city, county or state, one can get population and current number hospitalized with Covid on this site.

(Hospitalized / population) * 100 = local percent hospitalized (LPH)

(5/100,000) * 100 = benchmark percent hospitalized (BPH) = .005%

IF LPH < BPH, then supposedly one can resume normal activity.

Since I have a low tolerance for risk when it comes to the Delta variant for Covid, my personal benchmark will be .002%.

My local population is 1.85 million and number hospitalized here is 75 which yields an LPH of .0041%

Since .0041% is greater than my personal benchmark of .002%, I will start wearing a mask outdoors when there are people around.

[gulliver]

174. Thanks for this

Thanks very much for the very informative post! I like the proposed metric and your data.

I was able to visit your site and determine that my county's current hospitalizations are up, but only up to where they were in May. I didn't calculate your LPH metric, because I couldn't quickly (lazily really) determine whether the "hospitalizations" number referred to hospitalization "events" or the cumulative number of people actually in the hospital (as the result of the hospitalization events, less the "release" events). Still, I was able to determine that my county is listed as "Medium Vulnerability," which is somewhat comforting.

[Mr.Bill]

60. I hope you are doing okay.

Did you have any symptoms?

[StClone]

67. Monday of this week at work...

...I felt off. I could feel something was not right. I was rumbling, but powered on thinking it was some flu as I was vaccinated.

That was Monday, and by Tuesday I was dragging still thinking no problem, drink some coffee, and get on with it. Weak, tired, shaky, headache, cough set in and really began to sort out that maybe I had Covid. Then Wednesday an anti-vaxxer, unmasked co-worker (who works directly with me) texted in that he had a confirmed case.

Today I have little sense of taste or smell, weak, confused, and achy. Drove myself to eat, drink coffee despite its lack of appeal. I say right now I am at about 65% but think I'll be crashing soon.

Another vaccinated co-worker got it worse. She had to wear adult diapers and couldn't find a comfortable place so she slept on the bathroom floor.

[liberal_mama]

63. I never stopped wearing my mask indoors, but unfortunately my husband did

I was really happy when we were able to get vaccinated, but I always had a nagging feeling that the vaccine wasn't going to completely end the pandemic.

I'm surprised at the amount of anti-vaxxers out there. My sister and I had a bet about the percentage of people who would get vaccinated. We had this conversation when we got vaccinated and at that time only about 10% of the population had been vaccinated and it was so hard to get an appointment in my area. I guessed that 80- 85% would get vaccinated, but she was cynical and said only 50 - 60%. I don't know what they can do to get the vaccination rates up, but the unvaxxed certainly shouldn't be allowed to go to large sporting events, concerts, and take cruises.

[Warpy]

65. Good advice

and I am delighted to say people in my part of town have taken it to heart. I didn't see a single unmasked person when I went shopping for grocerties last week.

Nobody likes masks, they're soggy and uncomfortable. However, your protection relies on other people wearing them, like their protection relies on your wearing your own.

This bug has mutated into something very contagious. There have been breakthrough infections, some without symptoms, some with mild symptoms. It's just not worth taking the chance, even mild cases are miserable.

[calimary]

69. I'm wearing mine right now. Hanging around my neck on a lanyard.

And, just as with masks, the lanyards come in colors, too. They're not terribly expensive, and they sure help keep your mask handy!

I think they're just the cleverest thing!

So I wear 'em around my neck like a necklace, and they're a fun fashion accessory as well as a wearable life preserver.

[Tree Lady]

70. I am still masked but can't talk my husband

Into it no matter what I read to him. He says we are vaccinated.

I keep thinking if he catches it with how contagious it is I will also, makes me mad but other than move out over it which I can't afford to nothing I can do.

So basically I am planning no outings.

[KewlKat]

73. Got back from Costco a bit ago. Nearly all were mask free, even the elderly. We had ours on but I

wish we hadn't shopped. They also did away with the senior hours, so for now I guess we're done with Costco. I felt like I needed to shower when we got home. We arrived around 15 mins after they opened and again, nearly all were unmasked and acting like pre-pandemic. I got the few things I'd been needing and out the door we went...still was in there maybe 20 mins to half an hour.

My skin is still crawling.

I ordered some N95 masks the other day and they are due in today. Checked the CDC site to be sure they were good. I'll be sharing with elderly family members across the US. I don't trust my cloth masks anymore.

[Justice matters.]

77. Two Moderna shots here, 2nd one 3 weeks ago, and I got the Delta monster...

... luckily, ALL I have is a mild headache, short sneezes occasinally, and no fever.

I can't imagine what it would be like if I was not fully vaccinated, though.

I remain in isolation for the next 2 weeks and I will keep wearing masks the whole winter.

[StClone]

81. Thank goodness for you, I hope I am an outlier.

[StarryNite]

82. Take care.

[Justice matters.]

83. Thank you two.

All I have to do is to take 1 Tylenol every 6 hours.

I'll be fine and wearing a mask until next Spring. Maybe every winter inside public places too.

[kacekwl]

86. I never stopped wearing a mask

in public. At this point I don't realize it's on most times.

[Meowmee]

96. I am sorry you had bt cases

Thankfully they are not severe hopefully.

We never stopped masking and sd. My father and I are both covid lh. I had double pneumonia in the beginning due to not masking very early on, when a doc advised me to start I had already contracted it and I was very sick for weeks last March/ April/ June with persisting back pain, fatigue, hair loss and worse asthma over a year later. My father was in hospital for nearly a month with it and his health is destroyed. He was infected at the er while there for a hernia.

We will do all we can not to contract Covid again as well as not to spread it to others and not to contribute to the spread of delta an other possible variants. Keep wearing your masks and sd, kn95 / n95.

A vaccine is NOT A MAGIC FORCEFIELD, you can still contract and spread covid. Many here will tell you how rare it is. It does not matter if you are the unlucky one with a bt case, or if you spread it to someone more vulnerable, or if you are vulnerable and end up with a bad case or even a moderate or mild case which leaves lasting effects. One of my father’s docs had a mild case early on and still has impaired smell/ taste many months later.

[TheFarseer]

104. How were your symptoms?

My understanding is the vast majority of vaccinated are asymptotic or it’s just a cold. I don’t think we should have to accept lockdowns or even masks because of a cold. If people want to mask up of course that’s their choice and I’m totally fine with that. I hope we do get the option of boosters if they develop something for variants.

[Ms. Toad]

147. It's not "just a cold."

A DU member lost their fully vaccinated father to COVID. Another and her son (both fully vaccinated) are long-haul COVID folks (and the son's girlfriend was also a breakthrough case, but milder).

Mild is anything short of hospitalization - far beyond "a cold."

This disease is incredibly unpredictable. There is no way of predicting whether you will be the dead 5-year old, or the granny who has a mild cold.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

106. I am still masking when I go into supermarkets or stores

My son is in the Pfzier trial and he has been asked to be in the booster trial. My son has an appointment to discuss this new trial next week. I suspect that we will all be getting boosters to increase the efficacy of the vaccines

I am being cautious. I am still masking going into supermarkets and my firm has decided to slow down full reopening This means no monthly cake day and we will not have a firm dinner

[tanyev]

124. Some people at my work were comfortable enough to have a baby shower this week.

They put up a list and lots of people signed up to bring fairly elaborate things. Up until now most celebrations have involved pre-packaged things that were left out for people to grab and take back to their desk. Gawd FORBID we let a pandemic get in the way of celebrating holidays and birthdays at the office! Anyway, this one involved maskless people sitting around eating and talking. I got the expectant mom a present and said a prayer of thanks that they scheduled the party on my day off.

[Texaswitchy]

112. Wearing mine.

Never stopped.

I do care what other people think.

[Crunchy Frog]

113. Thank you for sharing your story and warning.

Sounds like even a "mild" case can be an extremely unpleasant experience.

I hope you feel better soon, and don't have any long term effects.

I've been masking indoors all along, but will be taking it up a notch once I get the N95s that I just ordered.

[qazplm135]

115. so did my girlfriend and I

I had JJ but she had Moderna...didn't matter.

Thankfully both were minor symptoms.

[wiggs]

130. I think we are seeing breakthroughs not only because Delta is a bad hombre but also,

as you say, vaccinated people have let their guards down and are becoming exposed more often than they were over the last 18 months.

Among other reasons.

[StarryNite]

134. I agree.

It doesn't help that we are being told by the CDC that masks aren't necessary if you have been vaccinated. I never stopped wearing a mask indoors in public places. I have no intention to stop anytime soon.

[BigmanPigman]

135. I only go out once a week and just did today.

Most of the staff at both supermarkets were masked but a lot weren't. I was surprised by this.

Since I had a fever, chills, aches, etc for a week w weeks ago I am more certain that what I caught was aerosolized. If you can smell cigaretre smoke theough a mask, that is a sign of how aerosolized strains spread.

"Not enough emphasis on airborne transmission".
“Fleeting contact” is an accurate descriptor that underlines the airborne nature of the virus, says Prof Nancy Baxter, head of the University of Melbourne’s school of population and global health.

“The spread is more likely if you’re close to the person [but] there’s still a potential for virus particles to be in the air, and breathed in by someone passing by,” she said. This is true of both the original Covid-19 virus and the Delta variant.

"After months of growing scientific evidence, the World Health Organization formally acknowledged the airborne spread of Covid in April. It can occur when viral particles remain “suspended in the air or travel farther than one metre”.

"Laboratory studies have found particles of the virus can linger in the air in aerosolised form for up to 16 hours."

"Respiratory aerosols accumulate in the same way that cigarette smoke accumulates,” she said.

“In an indoor space where the ventilation isn’t adequate, somebody with the infection could have come and gone, but the virus is still lingering in the air. So if you walk through that area and you breathe that air, you could get infected.”

"People are still kind of stuck in that mindset of hand sanitiser and washing your hands, when actually the message we need to be getting out there is it’s the air you breathe,” Macintyre said."

“Ventilation makes a difference. If you’re having people over, open the window. If you’re driving in a car with people, open the window, even a little bit. Wear masks. It’s the shared air that matters the most.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/24/its-in-the-air-you-breathe-what-you-need-to-know-about-sydneys-delta-covid-variant

[Freyda99]

136. Wearing my mask everywhere

I am living in a state that has a fairly high rate of vaccination, but a county that lags behind on vaccination rate. Even after receiving my second shot I continue to mask up everywhere outside my home. Even outdoors, if in a place where other people are around I will wear it. Initially this had to do with my awareness that many unvaccinated folks are running around maskless, but now it has a lot to do with the Delta variant. I have people in my extended family, younger people in their 20s and 30s who will not get vaccinated because they are Trump acolytes. My policy on seeing relatives right now is that if they are not vaccinated, I will not visit. My feeling with the rising rates of infection now is that the next Covid tsunami is right around the corner, and there will be many, many breakthrough infections. I hope to avoid this for myself and my family.

I bought a pin on Etsy that says "Fully Vaccinated." I pin it to the side of my mask. I want people seeing me to know that I am wearing a mask, not because I won't be vaccinated, but because I care about keeping myself and everyone else safe. If anyone asks why I am still masking even though vaccinated, I am happy to explain.

To StClone: I wish for you and your wife and your coworker full recovery. Thank you for writing this message to warn readers.

[Yavin4]

139. If masks work, why are cases rising in Japan where mask compliance was high even before the pandemic

Japan was lauded for their mask compliance in October 2020:

While citizens of other countries around the world struggling with the coronavirus pandemic have railed against face masks as unnecessary, ineffective or an infringement of their civil liberties, Japanese people have in virtual unison done as many experts have suggested and covered up.

Though wearing a mask may not be the only reason why Japan has a relatively low infection and death rate from the disease, epidemiologists say it is almost certainly a positive contributing factor.

The latest numbers from Japanese health authorities show 93,607 confirmed coronavirus cases and 1,676 fatalities in a nation of over 126 million people.

https://www.dw.com/en/how-japans-mask-culture-may-have-saved-lives-during-coronavirus/a-55321518


But they had the same surge that we did back in late 2020 / early 2021:

[NH Ethylene]

153. Maybe because the Delta variant is so much more infectious.

Some people in Australia caught it outside from passersby!

Cloth and surgical masks may not be adequate. I keep reading about how we need N95 masks to protect us from Delta.

[Yavin4]

154. They had a surge before Delta.

They had the same surge as we did in Nov 2020 to Jan 2020. This was before Delta.

[NH Ethylene]

173. Good point! Although the deaths per million population is much lower than many other countries.

120 per million, compared to the US (1882) and most other countries listed here:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Yavin4]

175. Japan's death rate from Covid is low because they have the lowest obesity rate

in the developed world at 4.3% of the population. And, they may have had some natural immunities from the virus as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate

[Ms. Toad]

157. The US has 105,640 cases per million, and 1882 deaths per million.

Japan has 6839 per million cases, and 120 deaths per million.

I'd say that even though the shape of the curve looks similar, it is much lower both absolutely - and relative to their population.

Their peak was fewer than than 8,000 per day. At our peak we were over 300,000 cases per day

Japan's population is less than 3 times the US population.

3 x 8000 is nowhere near 300,000.

[Yavin4]

158. You didn't answer my question about masks. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

159. Your question makes no sense.

The shape of the curve doesn't mean masks don't work. It means that they aren't perfect. What tells you how well they work is the comparison between the peak in Japan and the peak here. Population here is about 3x that of Japan. Disease here is about 37 times as high. That's a pretty strong indication that masks work.

[Yavin4]

160. Again, you haven't answered my question about masks and surges in Japan.

The dominant position on DU is that masks work. Japan which had one of the highest mask compliances in the world, prior to and during the pandemic, saw surges in cases and deaths during both the Alpha phase and the Delta variants.

Regardless of any comparison with the US, if masks were as highly effective NPI as many here state, Japan would not have ANY surges at all given their high mask compliance rates. In fact, they were lauded in May 2020 as having defeated covid without lockdowns:

One widely shared list assembled 43 possible reasons cited in media reports, ranging from a culture of mask-wearing and a famously low obesity rate to the relatively early decision to close schools. Among the more fanciful suggestions include a claim Japanese speakers emit fewer potentially virus-laden droplets when talking compared to other languages.

https://time.com/5842139/japan-beat-coronavirus-testing-lockdowns/

So, I will ask my questions again. If masks are effective against covid, why didn't masks work in Japan, and why aren't they working now?

[Ms. Toad]

171. Are you seriously saying that if something doesn't prevent 100% of infections, it doesn't work?

Do you hold vaccines (or seatbelts, or anything else) to the same standard?

If you eliminate the unvaccinated population, and plot the last month of delta cases exclusively among vaccinated people, you would see a current surge. Are you suggesting vaccinations don't work because they create the same shape curve as the one in the unvaccinated population (but about 12% as high)?

Masks work the same way any other effective tool works. They dampen what the disease would be doing, in the absence of the tool. Unless they are 100%, the natural curve of disease progression will still be present. Had Japan not been consistently wearing masks, the curve would have looked the same - but the scale on the left would have been closer to 250k, than the current 8k.

Why on earth would you think that an effective tool would alter the the natural shape of an infection curve? Plot any infection with an R0 over 1 over time and it will have that general shape - a few people get it,each one of them spread it to more than one other person, who spreads it to more, and so on. At some point, something interiors the cycle, and it shows - that could be mask wearing, when no one had been wearing them before, it could be a shift in seasons, it could be better testing and contact tracing, it could be a stay at home order, availability of vaccine, etc. With a lower R0, the curve will take longer to rise. How quickly it comes back down depends on how quickly a mitigating response is implemented, the length of the incubation period, etc.

There is no way to answer your question, because your premise (that an effective tool will eliminate the natural shape of any disease spreading through a community) is not consistent with science.

[Yavin4]

177. I've asked a simple question and you cannot give me a simple answer.

Instead, you build a strawman argument into my question and then proceed to answer that. For example, you veer off into a discussion about vaccines, which was not a part of my question at all.

My question is, as it has been, why didn't masks prevent surges in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in Japan? Even if those surges were less than the US or the UK, they still happened. Arguing that Japan's covid experience was not as bad as "country x" does not prove that masks were effective.

[Ms. Toad]

193. I can't tell if you are playing games,

or are really that ignorant (in the literal sense) of how disease prevention works - and what to expect when it is effective.

So if you want to know why an effective tool won't ever stop surges, I'll be happy to explain it again.

If you want proof masks are effective, I can point you in the direction of research that proves they are.

But I'm done playing in your fictional world in which you make up a definition of effectiveness (which nothng short of 100% effectiveness would meet ) and accuse me of building strawmen argument when I try to explain why your defniition is out of touch with science (making the question an impossible to answer "when did you stop beating your mother" kind of question.

[Yavin4]

194. At different times, you have called me "ignorant" and "illiterate" because I do not agree with you.

I guess that you cannot argue your points without insulting me.

You have been alerted.

[Ms. Toad]

195. I am not arguing points, because I am explaining scientific facts.

You seem to not have a clue about what an infection v. time curves looks like - and that an effective tool will not just act like a string and pull it flat from both ends.

I tried to explain that the premise on which you are asking your qustion was flawed, and you called it a straw man.

That leaves me with only two alternatives - you are playing games - or you are ignorant as to what an infection v. tme curve looks like - and how an effective tool would alter the curve (i.e. reduce each point in the curve in rough proporton to how effective the tool is.

That's not an insult - it is a description using the dictionary definition: lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing). Specifically what an infection v.time curve looks like.

As to illiterate, I don't recall specifically what you are referring to, but when I use that word it is usually after several attempts to explain something mathematical, only to be contradicted by mathematically impossible responses. Again - it's not an insult, but a descriptionof the state of your fluency in a specific topic. When I use either of those terms they are ALWAYS connected to a specific body of knowledge, and ALWAYS after I have tried repatedly to explain/teach the basics first - usually generating responses that accuse me of ulterior motives.

[Hekate]

197. Oh dear

[Blues Heron]

199. They did - the surges would have been far worse without the masks

Of course they work - they catch the droplets. That's why they wear them in surgeries. Next time you have an operation, make sure to remind the surgeon that masks don't work.

[Tarc]

143. Yea, I'm good. Not masking up again unless the state requires it

[MustLoveBeagles]

145. Thank you

We both were vaccinated in March with Pfizer when we first became eligible. Earlier this month I had begun to relax on mask wearing in our office area. I knew that most of my coworkers were vaccinated now plus we've been working in the office and remotely on a rotating schedule to keep the number of people to a minimum so I'd started to feel safe. Due to remodeling in our office we're in a mostly unused office (due to remote working) across the hall. I still masked everywhere else in the building. Now I'm back to masking at all times unless I'm in my temporary cubicle which is isolated from the rest of my coworkers. My husband and I went to our favorite restaurant for Sushi last Friday for the first time since February 2020. Much to our relief, the owners wife put us in an unoccupied section in the back by the kitchen. This isn't something we're going to do again for awhile because of an uptick in Covid spread. There are two DMV facilities in our city. The smaller of the two, located downtown, had to be shutdown due to four employees testing positive with Delta variant of Covid. We've never stopped masking in stores.

[boston bean]

172. Really? You have told us before no masking for you cause Joe said it was ok.

For a month I read those posts from you.

[MustLoveBeagles]

178. That wasn't me

You have me confused with someone else. If I'm not mistaken the poster beaglelover has said that or something similar. I think the world of the President but I consider going unmasked right now too risky. I don't trust that the unmasked strangers around me are vaccinated.

[boston bean]

179. I may be. Thank you for clarifying. My apologies!

[MustLoveBeagles]

180. It's okay

No offense taken. Mistakes happen.

[boston bean]

182. Thank you!

[Piasladic]

146. I was so happy

to remove my mask... now to be honest, with my spouse and myself, I wear a mask even when buying crap that's bad for me (looking at you booze). I'll be damned if I give my husband Covid because of my pride. Still, I am embarrassed when out on my own (no one wears a mask), but I guess I love him.

Vaccinated with mask.

[BoycottTimHortons]

148. Sorry to hear that

Mask mandates have never been rescinded in my neck of the words, and our vaccination rates have surpassed the USA’s. And I don’t think it will anytime soon (well unless you’re in Alberta). It’s way too soon to drop them with this nasty variant and I suspect cold & flu season will make things potentially more dangerous.

I hope you and your wife will get well quickly with no lingering effects. And it’s more evidence that antivaxxers are a literal public danger.

[retread]

162. Based on watching reports from front line medical workers I am wondering if

double masking would be workable.

Most if not all I have seen appear to have N95's(the kind that strap around your head) and a surgical or a KN95 with straps around the ears.

[seta1950]

176. Exactly

My family and I never took off our masks, indoors we all mask up always.

[Baked Potato]

198. Friggin' bummer! Hope you all get back to normal soon!

Never stopped masking here.