Some clear explanation of why a vaccinated person is much less likely to spread the virus

[Maraya1969]

https://theconversation.com/can-vaccinated-people-still-spread-the-coronavirus-155095

2. Does infection always mean transmission?
Transmission happens when enough viral particles from an infected person get into the body of an uninfected person. In theory, anyone infected with the coronavirus could potentially transmit it. But a vaccine will reduce the chance of this happening.

In general, if vaccination doesn’t completely prevent infection, it will significantly reduce the amount of virus coming out of your nose and mouth – a process called shedding – and shorten the time that you shed the virus. This is a big deal. A person who sheds less virus is less likely to transmit it to someone else.

This seems to be the case with coronavirus vaccines. In a recent preprint study which has yet to be peer reviewed, Israeli researchers tested 2,897 vaccinated people for signs of coronavirus infection. Most had no detectable virus, but people who were infected had one-quarter the amount of virus in their bodies as unvaccinated people tested at similar times post-infection.

Less coronavirus virus means less chance of spreading it, and if the amount of virus in your body is low enough, the probability of transmitting it may reach almost zero. However, researchers don’t yet know where that cutoff is for the coronavirus, and since the vaccines don’t provide 100% protection from infection, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that people continue to wear masks and social distance even after they’ve been vaccinated.

[LisaL]

1. Delta leads to 1,000 fold increase in virus load.

So even one-quarter amount of delta is going to be plenty for spreading it around.

[paleotn]

2. Source?

Just curious where you got that number from.

[LisaL]

4. Here.

"The researchers also measured the viral loads when SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in the PCR tests. They found that the viral loads in the delta variant infections were 1,260 times higher than that of the original virus infections. This suggests that the delta variant can replicate in the body at a faster rate than the original virus."

https://www.livescience.com/covid-delta-variant-transmission.html

[DenaliDemocrat]

10. Yes, and this is also likely the mechanism it uses

To overcome the immune system. Large viral load overwhelms the neutralizing antibodies. It’s not that they don’t work against it.

[LisaL]

11. Agreed.

A booster (third shot) should increase level of antibodies.
Forget those who refuse to get vaccinated and give their doses to those who want it as boosters.

[Rebl2]

17. I'm all

for a booster for older people and those who are immunocompromised.

[Strelnikov_]

26. I'm all for a booster for anyone that want's one

As long as it does not take a shot from someone who needs it more (unvaccinated, compromised).

And, considering Iowa will be tossing 200k+, there should be enough to get some significant booster coverage.

The Iowa Department of Public Health told the Des Moines Register Friday that 38,730 of the state's doses are set to expire by the end of July, and another 178,651 could expire by the end of August. . . . More than 183,000 of the 217,381 Iowa doses set to expire by the end of August are the Pfizer version of the vaccine, according to the state health department.

[LisaL]

27. They should start boosting people who got their vaccines six months ago.

Of course without CDC guidance that's not going to happen.

[Strelnikov_]

30. Agree. I am starting to worry about health care workers.

A lot of them are 6 mo.+

There should be a program to get vaccine that is expiring into peoples arms that want it.

CDC needs to get it's head connected to it's ass RE: delta.

[LisaL]

33. Exactly.

Start giving it to people who got is six months ago, especially elderly and health care workers, instead of pretending we don't need boosters.
Since vax refusers don't want their doses, we have plenty of vaccines that are going to expire anyway.
Rather than throw them out, give them to people as boosters.

[paleotn]

43. Thanks!

[TheRickles]

44. The PCR tests don't measure viral load. They detect the presence of viral fragments.

These may or may not be part of intact and infectious viruses. The PCR is subject to abuse if too many augmentation cycles are used, and since that is not specified in this study, it's difficult to draw any hard-and-fast conclusions. The developer of PCR, Kary Mullis, cautioned that it should not be used for diagnostic purposes because of this extreme sensitivity to partial gene sequences and not the full genome.

[madville]

5. Here is an article and a link to the study

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/07/08/1013794996/why-the-delta-variant-is-so-contagious-a-new-study-sheds-light

https://virological.org/t/viral-infection-and-transmission-in-a-large-well-traced-outbreak-caused-by-the-delta-sars-cov-2-variant/724

[paleotn]

42. Thanks!

[madville]

7. Exactly

1/4 the amount of Delta in a vaccinated person would be 250 times more than the viral load of the UK strain in an unvaccinated person. Crazy to think about it like that. What's scary are the recent findings (Israel and the miner study) that the vaccines may be less than 50% effective at preventing Delta infection in vaccinated folks.

[LisaL]

8. Exactly. Israel's latest data showed Pfizer was only 39% effective in preventing delta infection.

Not surprising since vaccines were designed against the original virus and delta is covid on steroids.

[roamer65]

39. +1260

👍👍

[madville]

3. That article is almost 6 months old, lots has changed

And it makes a ton of presumptions.

The biggest changes are the Delta variant (which wasn;t on the radar when this article was written) and emerging evidence about waning vaccine efficacy. Delta is also said to produce a viral load 1000x that of other previous variants, that's why it is so contagious and changing many things that people thought was settled.

The constant with COVID is nothing is settled and everything is subject to change at any time.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

6. In the US, the majority of vaccinated folks are Democrats, or left leaning others.

We generally don't hang out with RepubliQans, so we're far less likely to be carriers of Covid.

OTOH, the majority of the un-vaccinated are RepubliQans, who never follow personal protection protocols, and who hang out with each other, and are therefore more likely to spread the disease among themselves.

Avoid RepubliQans, and you will be far less likely to get a breakthrough infection or become a carrier of the disease.

Get vaccinated. Follow personal protection protocols. Stay away from RepubliQans.

[bucolic_frolic]

9. Just in from Morning Joe: 81% of unvaccinated "unlikely" to become vaccinated

So red states and communities and populations are now a self-reinforcing growth engine for COVID just as kids head back to school.

This wave has the potential to reduce populations by 1% or more

This is tragic because it's preventable, or at least it could be mitigated to some degree

[LisaL]

12. Then they will either get natural immunity or die.

NT

[IronLionZion]

15. Freedom isn't free

I just hope they don't infect too many innocent bystanders like the immune compromised.

[LeftInTX]

34. Or spread it to innocent kids under 12

[lagomorph777]

20. It's going to be ugly. Kids going back to school, and STILL unable to get vaccinated...

...in Red State COVID variant incubators.

I imagine this is going to drive many non-idiot parents to continue or resume home schooling.

On the bright side, that 1% population decline will surely lean heavily Reptilian. 1% of total population would work out to something like 3% of Reptilians, given the likely distribution. That would make quite an electoral difference in many areas.

[bucolic_frolic]

22. yup

That'd be 8, 10, 15k voters in a Congressional district. Even if only 55% of them vote .... I really don't like hard calculations, it's inhuman, but so is their mental rigidity that put them in this mess

[Tadpole Raisin]

23. Raw story(not my favorite 'new' source)

Had a blurb about her son dying and some of hos last words were that it was not a hoax and people should be vaccinated. Oh God!!

So she is now a supporter of vaccines and will work to try to increase awareness, although I think it said she suffered from long haul.

Rinse, repeat! You’d think enough of these stories had already occurred that people would have wised up.

Although likely the non vaxxers would think
1. The deep state got to you
2. The chip in the vaccine is influencing you
3. You are not a real person
4. Fake news

The same kind of craziness happened in 1918 (and Woodrow Wilson forbade people from talking about it because it wouldn’t be good for the war effort).

But they didn’t have social media, sigh.

[lagomorph777]

25. These stories come out, but never appear on Fux, Falsebook, or OAN.

So the people who need to see them, never do.

They choose to listen to hateful media because they are hateful people.

They will not be missed when they suffer the consequences.

[Tadpole Raisin]

36. Oh lagomorph you are so right

and that is so depressing!

Stay safe.

[roamer65]

40. 🦠🦠🦠🦠

Hold my beer.


-Delta

[NH Ethylene]

14. Everywhere you go there will be unvaccinated people.

It's not a matter of who you hang out with. Who do you walk past in the grocery store?

You don't need to spend 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person anymore. Transmitting infection can happen in just seconds now, with the Delta variant.

[Orangeutan]

13. I'm wondering how effective a well-fitted N95 mask is against the Delta variant.

250 times the viral load of the original is a lot to keep out.

[LisaL]

16. Certainly better than nothing.

Nothing is what most people are wearing these days.

[roamer65]

41. If you are fully vaccinated and wear an N95, about the best you can do.

Unless u are wearing BSL4 hazmat equipment.

[Tadpole Raisin]

18. If the Delta variant is so much more

Infectious and transmissible you don’t need very many unvaccinated people walking around, maybe even just 1 or 2 people taking advantage of lifting of the mask mandate walking around with the rest of us.

You likely have many more than that and in low vacc. states watch out. I saw 1 article (can’t find it sorry) that said that Delta was so infectious that briefly walking by someone could be enough to be infected and if it multiplies more rapidly the antibodies from just the 2 doses might not be enough. That’s not considering efficacy waning over time as well as more susceptible individuals.

Looks like CDC is starting to backtrack about boosters. That’s good.

[LisaL]

19. Pretty much all un-vaxxed are walking around maskless as far as I can tell.

My state is 50% vaccinated, but pretty much nobody is wearing masks.
Half of the people should be. Clearly that is not happening.

[Tadpole Raisin]

21. Yah, honor system means nothing to them!

I know Biden is walking a fine line trying to encourage and not force people to get a vaccine but if it goes much further a mandate for government workers, essential workers must be required and then a national emergency be declared (aren’t we officially already in one?) where vaccines are required nationally.

Easy for me to say. I don’t have to face the blowback.

It might be easier once the vaccines are formally approved.

Gosh I’m so slow. I still finger type on the phone. Yes I know there is a microphone, lol!

[Strelnikov_]

28. I have been wondering how the 'herd' percentage has moved

With the original, 70% was a common figure thrown about.

[LisaL]

29. It's 95% now because delta is so much more infectious.

NT

[Strelnikov_]

32. Worse than I expected. We will never get there. n/t

[Tadpole Raisin]

38. Over the year I've heard 65-70%

but I’ve also heard 90% which given a more dense population and greater travel (unlike decades ago) and now Delta’s greater virulence makes much more sense to me.

We definitely won’t get to 90% w/o a mandate.

And many of these crazy people, both leaders and populace never blinked an eye getting their kids all the vaccines required REQUIRED to go to school or even travel to other countries.

I knew the concept of critical thinking had gone away but my God this is insanity.

Stay safe!

[C Moon]

24. And a lot of these anti-vac people are also anti-mask.

They see it as a left wing control thing, thanks to the media and political idiocy on the right.

[róisín_dubh]

31. I just tested positive today.

I feel fine, like I'm having some allergy issues (mostly a little stuffy head, itchy nose). I'm waiting on official results from my NHS PCR test. It may be that I'm not able to spread it, but have enough virus to ping the test.
I wish all of this would just go away.

[LeftInTX]

35. Are you vaccinated?

My daughter was exposed and is positive....

She is also vaccinated...

She isn't really sick either, but she can't taste or smell.
She works with developmental delayed children (they are the innocent ones and ones we worry about here)
Fortunately, she only has 4 clients that she needs to follow up with

[róisín_dubh]

37. Yep, fully as of April.

I live in the UK and not all of my friends are fully vaccinated yet because of the delay between vaccines. I suspect I got it from one of them. Or in the pubs which have been busy, back to capacity. So aggravating.

[LisaL]

45. Not anymore.

"Although the vaccines remain highly effective at preventing severe disease and death, they do not form an impenetrable shield. New data suggests that people who are vaccinated and have breakthrough infections from the delta variant may have as much viral load as a person who is unvaccinated, which suggests they may be able to spread it to others, Walensky said. Such transmission did not happen in any significant way with earlier versions of the virus."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/27/cdc-masks-guidance-indoors/