Can't a vaccine be made specifically for Delta?

[iemanja]

We heard that the first COVID vaccine was created within days of the beginning of the outbreak. Can't they create a vaccine specifically for COVID. DUers, especially science people, please weigh in.

[Trueblue1968]

1. WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN DONE? It is imperitive.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

2. I have that question too

They already sequenced deltas DNA.

They need to keep up with this virus.

[NurseJackie]

25. The expectations are unrealistic. Remember all the logistical problems from before?

These things don't happen overnight.

[Celerity]

3. yes, we are in a trial now since April/May for the Moderna mRNA-1273.351 variant-tweaked vax.

It was designed to specifically work against Beta (B.1.351 aka South African variant) as the Moderna original vax )mRNA-1273) was poor (8 to 8.4 fold reduction in antibody titers) versus Beta. It (the original Moderna) was, on the other hand, much stronger against Delta than any other variant, so the new vax is (very preliminary data) showing 90 to 96% efficacy against infection (not just symptomatic disease) across the board.

[iemanja]

5. That's great!

Thanks for sharing.

[LisaL]

10. I hope the rest of us can get it sooner rather than later.

NT

[JohnSJ]

11. and Pfizer/biontech announced a few days ago they were in testing also on the delta variant

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/health/2021/07/29/pfizer-testing-out-booster-shot-in-charlotte--targeting-delta-variant

[Scrivener7]

12. Nice. And good to know that Moderna is strong against Delta. Can't wait to get the

booster.

I was an early recipient of the vaccine, so I hope we get it soon.

[Celerity]

15. more info

if you want a deep dive on that, here you go (remember this study below is the for the original Moderna mRNA-1273 vax, not the variant tweaked mRNA-1273.351 vax.)

Serum Neutralizing Activity of mRNA-1273 against SARS-CoV-2 Variants

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.449914v1.full

ABSTRACT

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) variants has led to growing concerns over increased transmissibility and the ability of some variants to partially escape immunity. Sera from participants immunized on a prime-boost schedule with the mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine were tested for neutralizing activity against several SARS-CoV-2 variants, including variants of concern (VOCs) and variants of interest (VOIs), compared to neutralization of the wild-type SARS-CoV-2 virus (designated as D614G). Results showed minimal effects on neutralization titers against the B.1.1.7 (Alpha) variant (1.2-fold reduction compared with D614G); other VOCs such as B.1.351 (Beta, including B.1.351-v1, B.1.351-v2, and B.1.351-v3), B.1.617.2 (Delta), and P.1 (Gamma) showed decreased neutralization titers ranging from 2.1-fold to 8.4-fold reductions compared with D614G, although all remained susceptible to mRNA-1273–elicited serum neutralization.

INTRODUCTION

As the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic continues to escalate in various parts of the world, several severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) variants of interest (VOIs) and variants of concern (VOCs) have emerged, including in the United States (B.1.526; Iota), United Kingdom (B.1.1.7; Alpha), Brazil (P.1; Gamma), India (B.1.617.1, Kappa; B.1617.2, Delta), South Africa (B.1.351; Beta), Uganda (A.23.1), Nigeria (B.1.525; Eta), and Angola (A.VOI.V2).1 There is growing concern over these variants based on increased transmissibility and the ability of some variants to partially escape both natural and vaccine-induced immunity. Notably, the B.1.617.2 lineage was recently classified as a VOC by the World Health Organization due to evidence of an increased rate of transmission, reduced effectiveness of monoclonal antibody treatment, and reduced susceptibility to neutralizing antibodies.1

We previously reported that mRNA-1273, a lipid nanoparticle encapsulated mRNA-based vaccine encoding the spike glycoprotein of the SARS-CoV-2 Wuhan-Hu-1 isolate, induced high neutralizing antibody titers in phase 1 trial participants2 and was highly effective in preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19.3,4 Some VOCs or VOIs, including B.1.351 and P.1, reduced neutralizing antibody levels using a pseudovirus-based model.5 Importantly, however, all variants remained susceptible to mRNA-1273 vaccine–elicited serum neutralization.5 Here we provide an update on the neutralization activity of vaccine sera against several newly-emerged variants, including the Delta variant B.1.617.2.

[Celerity]

4. yes, we are in a trial now since April/May for the Moderna mRNA-1273.351 variant-tweaked vax.

It was designed to specifically work against Beta (B.1.351 aka South African variant) as the Moderna original vax )mRNA-1273) was poor (8 to 8.4 fold reduction in antibody titers) versus Beta. It (the original Moderna) was, on the other hand, much stronger against Delta than any other variant, so the new vax is (very preliminary data) showing 90 to 96% efficacy against infection (not just symptomatic disease) across the board.

[everyonematters]

6. The current vaccines work against Delta.

The problem is, that if the virus keeps mutating, we could end up with a variant that they don't work with. If that happens than they would have to start all over again. That is how we are being screwed by the people who won't get vaccinated.

[iemanja]

7. 3/4 of those with Delta

in a MA cluster are vaccinated people. Clearly it isn't working.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/30/provincetown-covid-outbreak-vaccinated/

[everyonematters]

8. The great majority of them aren't getting seriously ill.

[PSPS]

23. True, but they're still getting infected, can spread it, and susceptible to long-haul

In other words, the vaccine isn't working like a vaccine but, instead, a very valuable palliative.

[Elessar Zappa]

16. That's just a small selection and could very well be an anomaly.

More vaccinated people are getting COVID but it’s still very unlikely to be serious. That said, masking up is important in order to protect people who can’t get vaccinated such as children.

[LisaL]

9. Yes, you can make vaccines specifically against delta.

Once you make them, you have to test them.
All of it takes time.

[Mike Nelson]

13. I think...

... they can. They have vaccines, already, that work for COVID. This is a variant, so they are already in the game. They had vaccines or research for viruses close to COVID, also... that's why it didn't take 12 years. A potential "Booster" will likely be tweaked to cover Delta. They are probably also thinking about the next variant...

[murielm99]

14. Work on covid vaccines was begun before the pandemic.

Scientists built on the work done previously.

[LeftInTX]

17. Masks and social distancing etc., until they do

Israel is giving boosters to those over 60. (Third shot)

I have no idea what's in the boosters, but they are Pfizer. I have no idea if it's just a repeat of another dose because I don't know how this works.

[LisaL]

19. Right now Israel is giving those over 60 a third dose (the same exact as first two).

NT

[LeftInTX]

20. Thx...so the first and second dose were the same?

[LisaL]

22. First, second and third.

Same doses of Pfizer.

[Jilly_in_VA]

18. You can

but the virus will just keep on mutating. It's what viruses do to survive.

[PSPS]

21. They should accelerate the promising nasal spray vaccines.

[hamsterjill]

24. Thanks for this thread. Following.

I've had a similar question. I've heard several "authorities" say that should a booster be needed, that they have plenty of doses. It doesn't make sense to me that if the current vaccines are not effective (or not as effective as needed - not trying to argue that point) against the delta variant, that to have a booster of the same stuff would make no sense. So how could there be "plenty of doses available" right now?

It only stands to reason that a booster would have to be different from the original vaccine. And please don't tell me that it is just like the flu vaccine. I understand that - but most people don't get the flu vaccine so we are talking about a different ball game.To boost every person who has gotten the COVID vaccine is going to have to be a basic repeat of the initial effort (i.e., massive locations, personnel, record keeping, etc.) At some point, something is going to have to happen where the vaccine is successful. People are not going to get booster after booster after booster. There have been issues in a small percentage of people who got the vaccine, and having to repeat the process opens up more people to that possibility.

I'm not anti vax, and I'll do what I have to in order to protect myself and others. But I'm not happy to think that I'll have to keep getting boosters all the time either. It's an unrealistic expectation to think that if some people wouldn't get the vaccine in the first place, that they will get in line for boosters.