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Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 10:45 AM Aug 2021

Gotta admit it. My faith in democracy is badly shaken (though not broken)

Trump winning the presidency in 2016, by itself, didn't badly undermine my faith in democracy. It's what has happened since then that has left me so unnerved. I was under no illusions, or so I thought. I never was optimistic enough to simply "believe in the wisdom of the masses." The masses can, and often do, get it wrong.

Public opinion is vulnerable to manipulation. People are susceptible to "heat of the moment" reactions. People get wrapped up in the drama of their own lives and don't tune into politics closely. Or they become deeply skeptical that the results of an election could fundamentally alter their life. Others default to "brand loyalty" and fail to question the motives of politicians "wearing their team jerseys." The flaws in democracy are nothing new, and they are serious, but I always agreed with how Winston Churchill put it, in a November 1947 address to Parliament:

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

I still agree with Churchill, but now I know that American democracy is far less firmly moored than I ever thought possible. I knew that demagogues were always a potential threat, but I underestimated how many people actually preferred "strongmen" to public servants. I underestimated how many people enthusiastically embrace severe us vs them world views, and I woefully underestimated how fucking gullible a hundred million or more Americans can be.

Trump selling himself as "an outsider" in 2016, and the ultimate businessman and consummate deal maker who actually cared about average Americans more than did so called "intellectual coastal elites", that I could wrap my mind around, though to me it was obvious bullshit. For reasons I mentioned above (and others that I left out) people sometimes "vote for a change" no matter how poorly defined or misunderstood that change might actually be.

There always have been and always will be charlatans and con men, some are just more skilled at what they do than others. Some are hugely successful, like Bernie Madoff the former NASDAQ Chairman, who ran the largest Ponzi scheme in history which bilked investors out of 64.8 billion dollars. Eventually though his true nature and malevolent intentions were revealed, and when it all finally came to light his run at the top terminated and he himself was disgraced (and punished.) Something similar can be said about Richard Nixon (minus punishment for criminal deeds.) Within that context I could take Trump having become President in 2016 in bitter stride. His initial con succeeded. It happens.

What we are dealing with now is far far worse though than any damage a demagogue can wreak before their con is ultimately exposed for what it is. Sunlight, until now, usually served as a disinfectant. Catch a demagogue red handed brutally trampling on the common good and all but their most deranged followers and most complicit accomplices start to melt away. Or at least they used to. Clearly that hasn't been true for Trump's cult, or for all of it's mercenary associated hangerons. Why?

Fundamental human nature doesn't change quickly. Americans aren't inherently more racist now than they were twenty years ago, nor more naturally inclined to worship strong leaders than before. It isn't the proclivities of average Americans that's changed, it's how they are channeled, encouraged, and ultimately inflamed. There's a lot of talk in political circles about how Trump systematically dismantled traditional institutional guardrails that helped keep previous presidencies "in bounds." But we need to look closer at the social guardrails that kept previous American electorates "in bounds" also. They have been been dismantled too.

When tens of millions of Americans are willing to accept that leading Democrats drink the blood of children, and that vaccines are a plot to inject government tracking devices into the bodies of unsuspecting citizens, we have a serious problem. When those Americans are increasingly driven toward extreme, and even violent acts, justified by such "beliefs", the threat becomes grave. When that threat is routinely downplayed, if not actively furthered, by "leading voices" in media and hundreds if not thousands of elected government officials, democracy is in a full blown crisis.

Rarely have a majority of Americans ever been astute observers of politics. Votes have always been swayed by "influencers", be they rabid fundamentalist preachers or fiery labor organizers. Lies have always competed with truth in the so called "market place of ideas", but the truth previously had at least a good fighting chance to ultimately prevail. That is far less certain today. Democracy inevitably devolves into a progression of rigged elections when manufactured falsehoods supplant literal truth.

So why is my faith in democracy not broken? Because a democratic society, unlike "all those other forms (of government) that have been tried from time to time" offers ways and means for people of good will to collectively organize and confront the merchants of lies. We have done so before, we must do so again. It won't be easy.

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Gotta admit it. My faith in democracy is badly shaken (though not broken) (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Aug 2021 OP
Why now? Something to consider. Jim__ Aug 2021 #1
Yes, no doubt that plays a very large role in it Tom Rinaldo Aug 2021 #3
I feel the opposite. -misanthroptimist Aug 2021 #2
I can see that perspective Tom Rinaldo Aug 2021 #4
I'm with you; we're far from out of the woods -misanthroptimist Aug 2021 #10
While that's true, it seems they've really ramped up the fascism Marius25 Aug 2021 #6
But do they actually control the courts? -misanthroptimist Aug 2021 #11
Not all the judges are ideological sycophants.... TheRealNorth Aug 2021 #13
I mean, the Supreme Court just damaged voting rights even more Marius25 Aug 2021 #16
Those That Build and Create Always Have the Hardest Job Beetwasher. Aug 2021 #5
Well said Tom Rinaldo Aug 2021 #8
We all did. Pantagruel Aug 2021 #7
The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in Democracy but in ourselves. Saboburns Aug 2021 #9
I agree with this sentiment. TheRealNorth Aug 2021 #14
Ahem. Former Orange Lardo did not win The Presidency in 2016. We elected Hillary but abqtommy Aug 2021 #12
All I can say is thank you right now. I've got to run and have no time. 7wo7rees Aug 2021 #15
K&R for the post and the discussion. crickets Aug 2021 #17

Jim__

(14,075 posts)
1. Why now? Something to consider.
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:08 AM
Aug 2021

The other day ancianita posted a link to an article in the New Yorker about Facebook and how it increases its profits by promoting news stories that have a strong emotional appeal, and that many people rely on Facebook and other social media as their main news source. Undermining democracy and promoting demagoguery is extremely profitable - at least in the short term.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
3. Yes, no doubt that plays a very large role in it
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:20 AM
Aug 2021

Other co-related factors come into play also. Dark money is a threat that underwrites other threats. Increasingly concentrated wealth in fewer and fewer hands allows the greedy to invest obscene amounts of money into propaganda operations, knowing that the return on their investment will be accumulate many fold over. International cyber ops disinformation warfare has spiked over the last decade, with Russia a leading practitioner, opening up new incentives and abilities to destabilize a democratic foe through skilled use of propaganda and deception. Social constraints have also loosened. Once arrogance held negative connotations providing some political check on boundless ambition, not so much anymore. Once there was shame associated with being caught in a lie. Now evidence free angry denials are trumpeted as a sign of strength and become the basis for grassroots political fundraising.

Whatever is at fault needs be discussed, exposed and countered. I almost wandered into this bog more in my OP but it was long enough already.

-misanthroptimist

(810 posts)
2. I feel the opposite.
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:11 AM
Aug 2021

If anything, my faith in democracy has been strengthened. Think about it: Democracy has been under coordinated, continuous attack from Republicans for about 50 years. They have consistently and with no shame lied to deceive voters; they have gerrymandered beyond all sanity; they have sold out their country by conspiring with our adversaries. That's not an exhaustive list even. All of this in furtherance of gaining or maintaining political power.

Their results for all corruption? They are minority in the House and Senate. The President, too, is a Democrat. They've made very little progress, if any, on a wide variety of issues that they hold dear. Democracy is still hanging in there, a bit battered -which seems logical- but still alive and in reasonable health.

It's been an incredibly poor return on their investments and hard work. Sure, they'll keep trying. Hell, they might even win and destroy democracy in America. But the amount of effort that they've already poured into their so far failing project indicates to me just how strong democracy is. Even if they are successful it's quite possible, probable even, that that success will be short-lived.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
4. I can see that perspective
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:28 AM
Aug 2021

and agree in part. But we came close to not having a Democratic President, the nature of the electoral college cuts against us, and had Trump not totally botched the response to the pandemic, or had it not happened in the first place, I think he would have been reelected. We hold the barest majorities in Congress, and if the typical political past is precedent, we can lose the House in the mid terms. Republicans have done all of those things you mention, and they have not yet been thoroughly disgraced and discredited to any where near the degree that their behavior warrants.

Democracy has held, as you rightly point out. I said my faith in it is shaken, not broken. But when autocrats are allowed to take over the helm of a functional democracy they frequently destroy it from within so that the field is rigged to keep them in power from there on out. That threat is not yet over.

-misanthroptimist

(810 posts)
10. I'm with you; we're far from out of the woods
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:44 PM
Aug 2021

But I think that there is cause for optimism.

Trump gave voice to disaffected, ignorant bigots in the US. There is every reason to believe that he will continue to do so. However, he faces a slew of legal issues, from taxes to treason, in both Federal and State courts. Should one of those issues result in his imprisonment or even merely disqualifying him from running again, there is a large chance (imv) that the cult breaks up into warring factions. People like Stefanik and Hawley, as well as others, are not stupid. They are cynical. They all want to gain control of the cult should Trump fall. And of course, there is a huge stupid/ignorant cadre in the wings who feel that they should be in control. Unless they can come to some arrangement -which seems unlikely especially with the intelligent ones- then the cult splinters.

 

Marius25

(3,213 posts)
6. While that's true, it seems they've really ramped up the fascism
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:36 AM
Aug 2021

these last 4 years. Controlling most of the courts including the Scotus, the worst voter restriction laws we've seen since at least Jim Crow, trying to outright overthrow the government.

They've reached a point where they very well may succeed this time. Gerrymandering alone can give them the House in 2022.

-misanthroptimist

(810 posts)
11. But do they actually control the courts?
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:51 PM
Aug 2021

Trump went 0-for-infinity in post-election lawsuits, including some that he himself appointed. While I'd have to be delusional to think that the courts lean any direction but conservative, I doubt that they will become completely partisan. Not to mention that Joe has been appointing judges at a record pace. There's even a review of the Supreme Court going on, so that may change in a couple of different ways.

The anti-voter laws largely are surmountable through hard work on our part. If we couple that with driving down Republican turnout, we should win. This is politics. What looks like wisdom in mid-2021 might well turn out to be wildly wrong by late-2022. Always work like we're behind and we just might win.

 

Marius25

(3,213 posts)
16. I mean, the Supreme Court just damaged voting rights even more
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 08:11 PM
Aug 2021

so I'd say yeah. Alito basically wrote his own law saying if any state even suspects fraud, they have the right to implement these voter restrictions.

Beetwasher.

(2,971 posts)
5. Those That Build and Create Always Have the Hardest Job
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:32 AM
Aug 2021

They nihilists, liars and destroyers have it easy. T'was always thus. But if you look at history in the long term, humanity has undeniably progressed, on every front, despite set backs. Compare now to 100 or even 50 years ago and you see progression on every level. We are in a dangerous place, but have faith. We build it back, we've don so before and we will again.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
8. Well said
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:37 AM
Aug 2021

On the whole I agree with you and believe in the long moral arc of history and in our capacity to fight and ultimately win. But setbacks can happen, they can be very painful, and they can prevail for far too long a time. America slipped from Reconstruction to Jim Crow before the Klan was beaten back and segregation banished.

 

Pantagruel

(2,580 posts)
7. We all did.
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 11:37 AM
Aug 2021

"...I underestimated how many people actually preferred "strongmen" to public servants. I underestimated how many people enthusiastically embrace severe us vs them world views, and I woefully underestimated how fucking gullible a hundred million or more Americans can be."

My first clue was Reagan's popularity despite his scandals.Really need to fix the Electoral College problem but the Constitution holds us back.

Saboburns

(2,807 posts)
9. The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in Democracy but in ourselves.
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:39 PM
Aug 2021

American Democracy isn't breaking/broken, but many Americans are. And you're wise to be worried. We've seen the past 5 years how pitifully fragile our Republic truly is. Add to that we now have one our two Political parties actively (not covertly mind you) working to destroy our Democratic institutions and Democracy itself.

I'm of the opinion that it's the WingNut propaganda that is our major enemy/problem. Fox News is very tame compared to other, stranger and more dangerous WingNut outlets. There are dozens and dozens. I've noticed that during the past 20 years as newspapers have mainly disappeared, Newsmen furloughed, WingNut news sites are popping up all over. It's a fertile field is Conservative news, growing bigger everyday.

We, us, especially here at DU don't pay nearly enough attention to WingNut media. It's crazy stuff, completely made-up for those that consume that shit. And consume it they do.

If you want to know why our Democracy is crumbling spend a couple hours reading Gateway Pundit headlines. Want to know why Donald trump got elected in the first place-watch an evening of Newsmax. If you want to know what WingNuts are planning-spend an hour reading Breitbart.

Yes, it's madness on grande scale- but 40% of Americans are addicted to the feeling they get upon consuming WingNut media. They live in a different reality. And very, very few ever make it back.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
12. Ahem. Former Orange Lardo did not win The Presidency in 2016. We elected Hillary but
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 01:43 PM
Aug 2021

Former Orange Lardo won the scam/ratfucking. And don't ever forget it. My faith in Democracy
remains unshaken.

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