I am a gay man of a certain age

[dsc]

I was 13 in 1981 when we started hearing about this odd disease killing gay men. I was 19 in 1987, when AZT got its approval as a treatment. For those 6 years, the entire gay and lesbian community (as it was called then LGBT community now) demonstrated, marched, begged, pleaded, and did anything else they could think of to get any treatment for this horrible disease. If we would have been offered a free vaccine in 1982 we would have crawled over irradiated, broken glass to get it. I am just going to say this, I literally can't fathom or get over the utter irresponsibility and selfishness of the people who are protesting not to have this vaccine, not to wear masks (I do have to be fair and point out barebacking was very much a thing in the gay community), and all of the rest. 40 years ago we would have built statues to the creator of such a vaccine.

[RKP5637]

1. K&R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[Skittles]

2. excellent observation

[blm]

3. ✔️

[UpInArms]

4. I made this very comparison

Last week …

What we are seeing now is unfathomable.

[Haggard Celine]

5. Yes, I don't understand people today.

Well, I guess I understand sort of. There were people back then who claimed that AZT was poison and that the government created it to finish people off. Then there were quack doctors who came up with certain diets and compounds that were supposed to cure AIDS. It wasn't on the scale of what we see now, though, with the internet and so many scam artists claiming that the disease isn't real, or it's just the flu, and we didn't have an entire political party telling people to go about their lives as if everything were normal. The internet is a great tool, and I love it, but it has fucked up this effort to stop this disease! These fools who have no discernment between truth and bullshit are literally killing us.

[Maraya1969]

6. I think the effects of Covid are not easily seen. People are terrified of Polio.

AND AIDS. I think because too many people have not taken Covid seriously. Many have said they don't care because it is an "old people" disease.


They are likely going to see some things to scare them now.

[Rhiannon12866]

16. And now it's affecting younger and younger people, including children

[Stuart G]

37. I am terrified of Covid...Got 2 shots, will get another if I need to..as many as they say..

..Been very sick, recovered don't want to be "very sick again." Would you want to be....VERY SICK? ????


iF YOU DO WANT TO BE VERY SICK, (and really don't know what that is)...................................


you are far stupider than anyone you consider stupid..whoever, wherever and whatever those people may be.

OK..I will make you less stupid...............................................................................................................
...Picture if you can, a breathing tube in your nose and throat, and being in a hospital bed, for a week or so, with that tube and some I -Vs in your arm, not being able to get out of bed....

So think about that if you do not want to get the vaccine..

You are now .....less stupid... about being very sick...

[Maraya1969]

39. I am assuming you did not mean to aim this at me. I am vaccinated and I always masked up

And I watched my partner die from respiratory distress syndrome many years ago on a ventilator. It was horrible.

[Stuart G]

41. I did not mean to aim this at you or anyone...ever...Just making a point..I am sorry if I posed this

in a way that offended you in any way, shape, or form....or anyone for that matter... VERY SORRY!!!

[Maraya1969]

46. It's OK. Just wanted to make sure. eom

[NNadir]

7. I think working to make protease inhibitors available was the high point of my professional life.

In the industry, despite much criticism, we really did care.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. +1 . . . nt

[Pisces]

8. Unfortunately this is a bad analogy as AZT ended up being bad for HIV patients. Dallas Buyers Club

Shows the guinea pig side of getting AZT early on.

[NullTuples]

9. You DO know that DBC was just a really bad movie, right?

[Pisces]

11. That doesn't negate that AZT was not a good drug for HIV.

https://www.spin.com/featured/aids-and-the-azt-scandal-spin-1989-feature-sins-of-omission/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgb48x/happy-birthday-to-azt-the-first-effective-hiv-treatment

A few articles for you.

[FreeState]

26. I have several friends alive today because of AZT

Do they have side effects still? Sometimes but none as bad as missing their friends and family that didn’t have access to AZT.

[Maraya1969]

40. I agree with you. Horrible drug. I don't even know why they chose it for HIV

[dsc]

12. It was the first treatment that had any efficacy against AIDS

was it perfect, no? But I know several people for whom it gave enough time to get to the more effective treatments. But it is a valid point that AZT was nothing like the vaccines in terms of efficacy.

[Hekate]

10. Completely understand your POV, as I share it. I've always been interested in public health...

… matters, and am utterly baffled by what I see as the sheer ignorance combined with stupidity that is so rife in the US.

In my case it may have something (or a lot) to do with my husband and me becoming the oldest couple in our extended families. We are only 73 and 74, but we seem to be the only ones who actually remember epidemics and their devastation. We remember, we experienced, we observed. Like you, we KNOW what vaccines are for.

All I can do for family members who are refuseniks is pray for them, as they are impervious to other approaches.

[MerryBlooms]

13. I lost my dear school friend, David, in 1988. We were last together at our high school

5 year reunion in 1986. I almost didn't attend, but I am so glad I did, because he didn't make it to our 10th. I think about him often, and our school cafeteria lunches together, school dances... He was a lovely soul, and one of my most favorite people. I often think how much better my world would be with his laughter and hugs still with me... I am pretty sure his thoughts would mirror your post. Thank you.

[carpetbagger]

14. The generation that broke Fauci in.

Seriously, you guys put him through boot camp and he came out a better doctor and administrator.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

15. From 1969 to 1979 I was a ticket agent at National Airport in Washington DC.

A significant number of the men I worked with were gay, although most of them were not out in the early years. But working with them, as I learned they were gay, helped me understand, as best I was able, what it was like for them.

I'm lucky in that over the years since I've known a reasonable number of LGBTQ people, and I learn new things every day about their lives.

Any number of men I knew back then have died from AIDS.

Thank you for posting.

[Karadeniz]

17. Well said!

[MustLoveBeagles]

18. K&R

[appalachiablue]

19. As kids, mom was serious with us about

the polio vaccine and all meds. When young, she had experienced the summer polio scares, then Pres. FDR in office. Her father was a doctor as well so we knew about the importance of medicine.

Years later in the 1980s, I worked at a health agency near NIH and had dealings with them. I remember Dr. Fauci very well from then. Also my younger brother who was living in NY died of Aids in 1992 after his partner went months earlier. Brother had tried new treatments in France and was helped by excellent physicians, but it wasn't enough. So we know what a vaccine could have done to help him and millions of people through that major health crisis.

With you on people's blind ignorance and stubborn ways. Don't they have any family members or others to explain to them how bad things got with the Aids crisis and other major health issues? Can they read?

[dsc]

21. I am only 53 but my parents vividly remembered Polio

and one of my grandmothers had lost a sister to the flu. Dying of diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella were things into the 1950's and early 1960's. I will admit, that AIDS is my searing memory but my parents and grandparents instilled the history of polio and the flu.

[greenjar_01]

38. One of the early anti-vax conspiracies was that polio vaccination caused HIV/AIDS

(i.e., Edward Hooper's asinine book).

[LakeArenal]

48. I dated a boy/man that had polio.

It’s real not a legend. It gave him many emotional issues as well. Including drinking til he was blind drunk.

[Upthevibe]

20. dsc....

I'm a lesbian and I remember everything we did! People were literally marching in the streets (including me) for the government to take action (F.U. to Ronald Reagan, BTW). I went to many, many demonstrations (including with the "radical" group ACT UP).

When I moved to L.A. in 1988, I worked on the AIDS Hotline. I remember the class that was given (by the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center) was on the level of a college course. It was six weeks long, two nights a week, four hours per night and was required we before we could work the hotline.

The people we're dealing with now (the anti-maskers) are completely brainwashed on too many levels for me to get into now.

Thank you for this post and presenting your thoughts in the context of what the LGBT community did and the contrast regarding what's happening now.

[spanone]

22. K&R

[Warpy]

23. They not only marched, beggged and pleaded for themselves

they started groups like Act Up to do outreach to groups who weren't them, like IV drug addicts. Their campaigns were creative and effective. They also used to come into the wards from time to time, telling staff what was going on with research.

I have to think all the marching and agitating had an effect, I think it was shortly after AZT came out that we started seeing "compassionate use" drugs, identified only by numbers and letters and requiring massive paperwork. They allowed our patients to go home and at least tidy things up and say goodbye. Some of them started to get quite a lot of time by the end of the 80s.

I was a far cry from 13 in 1981, got my nursing license just about the time stories about GRID started to appear and things got very bad, very fast.

Seeing what's going on with Covid has brought some of those memories back, especially the treadmill the docs were on: asssess, intubate, pronounce, over and over again.

[roamer65]

24. Moderna will soon be in clinical trials of a mRNA vaccine for HIV.

Imagine if it works.



By all of us taking the SARS-CoV-2 version, we just may have helped to make a large step towards preventing HIV.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/moderna-to-trial-hiv-and-flu-vaccines-5189912

[dlk]

25. We are witnessing the awesome power of propaganda

It should never be underestimated.

[Tiger8]

27. Republicans laughed at AIDS deaths

In the 80's, Rush Limbaugh would read from the names of gay men who died of AIDS, and after each name, played a laugh track and/or applause.

Limbaugh also mocked the red ribbons people wore who lost a loved one to AIDS....and he mocked the AIDS quilt, to the absolute joy of people calling into his show.

But other Republicans took AIDS seriously, which was actually worse. William F. Buckley advocated tattooing all gay men on the buttocks, while others favored building camps to quarantine gay men, and spread stories that gay men would "lash out" and deliberately infect others by biting them, spiting, and licking produce in grocery stores.

Republican politicians acted as if AIDS didn't exist, or if pushed, opposed doing anything about it. A reporter asked Reagan administration officials how they planned to address the AIDS crisis, and the spokesman joked about it, asking the reporter of he was a homosexual, and turning to his associates and asking, "Are any of you homosexuals?" to their nervous laughter.

Fundamentalist Christian preachers and televangelists were eager to proclaim AIDS as God's judgement on sexual sin - and compared it to Sodom and Gomorrah. Televangelist Pat Robertson claimed that gay men wore a "secret ring" with a spike in it, and used it to infect others with HIV when shaking hands or touching them.

But perhaps the worst offender was the Catholic Church. Numerous Popes spoke out strongly against condoms, and opposed safe sex education with a vengeance - even going to Africa and commanding people to not use condoms - which lead to the deaths of millions of Africans.


Regardless, they were all adamantly opposed to spending any money or doing anything to help or educate people on how to keep themselves safe from HIV infections - because it would be interfering with God. While others on the right saw AIDS as the perfect bogeyman to get people to donate money, or make them view gay people as a menace to society.

Finally - the tide started to change when gays started fighting back. Preachers and politicians were shouted down with chants of "SHAME, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME" and ACT-UP was formed and would bust into church services, splattering buckets of red paint on the finely decorated walls. Hollywood got involved....movies such as "An Early Frost" and "Philadelphia" humanized the terror that was AIDS.

This change gave Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) the impetus he needed to be the lead sponsor on "The Ryan White Act" which had 66 co-sponsors - enough to bypass a promised filibuster attempt by Senator Jesse Helms (R-NC).

You can read about The Ryan White Act here.
https://hab.hrsa.gov/livinghistory/legislation

[Crowman2009]

31. Rethuglicans love death & suffering, and making money off of it.

AIDS, wars in the middle east, death squads in central America, putting drugs in urban areas, defunding welfare programs, environmental contamination...I could go on and on.

[Tiger8]

35. I was reminded of "Republicianism" a few weeks ago

I live in Massachusetts, and smoke from the Oregon wild fires covered Boston so badly, that I couldn't see the skyline. Never happened here before.

Climate change is here. And Jimmy Carter warned us about it over 40 years ago - and took steps to promote solar, wind, conservation, etc.

A recent article in The Guardian claimed President Carter was "Decades Ahead of His Time" but he really was just a smart man who cared about our future. As history unfolds, Jimmy Carter will be recognized as one of the best presidents of all time. Link to article...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/03/jimmy-carter-climate-change-carterland-film-biography


Unfortunately, Reagan deleted all Carter's programs - and clearly because Reagan was a pawn of the energy industry - and also behind his support of death squads, wars, and anything else that will...

1. Drive their bigoted voters to the polls by attacking marginalized groups.
2. Make their greedy financial backers - fossil fuel industries, food industries, wall street, etc. - more wealthy.

Of course, that means the most effective Republicans are always the most sadistic, heartless motherfuckers.

[MotorCityBeard]

34. I came out in 1982 when I was 18, in Detroit

It was a very scary time and I remember all of that. I've always hated Reagan with a passion as he didn't want to do anything about it as it was killing the "right" people. I've gone to funerals for friends that died of it and then heard AIDS joke at work (I did go to HR and made a huge stink about that).

I've thought that it's probably a good thing that social media was not nearly as prevalent back then as it is now. Especially in the beginning, when they did not know what caused it or how it was spreading, can you even IMAGINE the disinformation that would have been going around? Hell, there was plenty of bullshit going around without social media. I remember one theory for the cause of AIDS being disco music(!)

[Tiger8]

36. Yes, that proves just how bad Republicans have gotten

Conservatives have scapegoated Asian Americans for COVID - the level of HATE ginned up on the Right is appalling.

And that Right Wing Hate has consequences - with record levels of reported hate crimes against persons who look Asian, regardless of nationality.

From an Asian girl who had acid thrown in her face, disfiguring her for life - to elderly Asians who have been beaten, shot and killed. Record numbers of hate crime victims among Asian owned business and even on college campuses. The cases are so sad and depressing to read - and now our fellow Americans - Asian Americans live their lives in fear.

So yes, it is frightening to think how bad it would be for LGBTQ if social media had existed back then. Plus, Right Wing Media is far more sophisticated at ginning up hatred and intolerance with their lies, smears, anecdotal stories and conspiracy theories.

[H2O Man]

28. Recommended.

Thank you for this.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Your attitude about masks, at least, seems to be uncommon among gay men of a certain age.

One of my Provincetown friends - after escaping being part of the July 4 surge - went to the town meeting to speak out against the proposed rule on re-imposing universal indoor masking. Several of his friends were cheering him on, generally expressing the opinion that as long as it doesn't kill you, we just have to live with it like we live with AIDS, with no obligation to mask up for public safety.

I extricated myself from that discussion before I alienated too many friends, but I was pretty disgusted at the cavalier attitude toward a deadly virus.

[lagomorph777]

32. And by the way, Fauci was there then, struggling to identify the disease and develop treatments.

[Random Boomer]

33. I remember the start of it all....

I was a gay woman in my 20s and living in New York City when I read a short article about a cluster of gay men developing Kaposi's sarcoma. Doctors were puzzled because typically this was a disease seen in older men of Mediterranean descent. That oddity stuck with me and eventually it was tied to AIDS and the epidemic of cases that ravaged the gay community.

When I read about the first few deaths from a new virus in China, I had that same prickle of unease and a flashback to the Kaposi's sarcoma article. I posted that thought on one of my online forums (not DU) and several of the other posters scoffed at my apprehension. Within a month, however, those deaths were proven to be a precursor of yet another epidemic.

Pay attention, folks. You can see these events coming, and be more prepared (at least emotionally and psychologically) if you keep an eye out for medical news.

[RicROC]

42. The same people who would put HIV and gay people in concentration camps...

are the ones who cry "Freedom" and refuse to follow social and health protocols.

[trickyguy]

43. I am a gay man of a more advanced age and a gay activist for 50 years.

I lived in Chicago when the AIDS epidemic started hitting the gay community.
Watched many friends die a horrible death - some in their 30's and 40's.
The reason we marched to get treatment is because of government homophobia.
Some people actually thought the disease was a good thing because it would get rid of gay men mostly.
Ronald Reagan did nothing during those 6 years. He finally said the word "AIDS" a little to late.

But you know who stepped in during that time to help get trial drugs into our community.
Yes, Dr. Anthony Faucci implemented the use of experimental drug programs. He saved lives.

So now I am living through my second epidemic and things seem oddly familiar.
Like havine Dr Faucci in charge of disseminating information.
As you state, we would have done anything to get some kind of treatment for
a frightening and horrible disease.
And today we have people who are protesting this vaccine which saves lives.
It's really mind blowing but I'm vaccinated and trying to take care.

Thank you for your important post.

[Politicub]

44. I'm a couple of years younger than you, and I feel the same way.

I went to college when HIV was a death sentence, and I used condoms, but they weren’t 100 percent effective. It was so scary to get tested for HIV and wait a week or two for the results. Testing was something that was almost a right of passage, and it never got easier waiting for the results.

It makes me so angry that people are so stupid and stubborn about the Covid vaccine. I’m not religious, but I regard it as a modern miracle.

[Borchkins]

45. My brother is also a gay man a couple of years older than you.

I am so thankful that he made it through those times as well. Many of our older friends were not so lucky. THanks for this observation.

[Botany]

47. Thanx for the post Mr. dsc

It reminded me of being a boy and going to a new school in N.W. PA and going to the
nurse's office and seeing our doctor (small town) there along with my brother and one
other kid who was new to the school too. We were told we were going to get out TB
vaccination then and there. There was no fuss, there was no problem, and we got the
vaccination (old school big ass scar) and then we went back to class end of story.

"I literally can't fathom or get over the utter irresponsibility and selfishness of the people
who are protesting not to have this vaccine ... "