The Cuomo situation comes down to this

[iemanja]

Do you think women's lives have value or do you believe Democratic men should never be held account for sexual predatory behavior? It is as simple as that.

Cuomo's defenders insisted we wait for the results of the investigation. Now that is in and found that the allegations are true, they make more excuses. That kind of contempt for the lives of women and opposition to equality is neither Democratic or democratic. They now insist we wait on the results of a trial in a judicial system in which only 6% of rapists see jail time. Even a man who admitted to giving women Quaaludes to have "sex" with them is set free. While Cuomo is not a rapist, these facts display the kind of misogynist judicial system that predatory men rely on. That at the fact most of the offenses for which Cuomo is accused are workplace violations rather than criminal infractions, exposes the excuse about criminal conviction to be a lie.

Any employee of the state of NY who engaged in such behavior would have already been fired. They are fired for such behavior. Yet Cuomo's apologists don't think he should be held to those standards. They insist on a hierarchy in which men of power are held superior and not be subject to the same consequences as ordinary workers. The few over the many, men over women, sexual predation over human decency: Those are the values on display.

[treestar]

1. It is about whether anyone accused should have justice

and not be punished before there is a determination of guilt. It does not value the lives of anyone very well to jump the gun and create consequences before the investigation. Women could be accused too, you know.

[iemanja]

4. Women are accused

But the defense in this case is about the maintenance of male supremacy.

I gave my opinion of the empty excuses about justice in the face of workplace infractions. How many sexual harassers are prosecuted? Very few, but they do lose their jobs because they violate workplace policy. While there may be a criminal prosecution in Cuomo's case, most of his behavior falls outside criminal law, which you know perfectly well. That is why the excuse is a canard.

Are you asserting that only 6% of rapists committed those crimes because the other 94% never faced jail time? Is it your view that cops who are acquitted for killing black people are innocent because they aren't convicted? Relying on a racist, misogynist justice system for as much as admitting that a person committed crimes is weak and self-serving.

[treestar]

77. I said no such thing

merely that people should not be penalized until there is some sort of due process. Even if not full trial, it could be something. I'm not a fan of the losing your job over everything like this. Why must they always lose their job?

[tonedevil]

81. You think harassment...

in the workplace is no big deal? I've seen middle managers lose their jobs for less egregious conduct and with less "due process".

[treestar]

88. This is not a job

of at will employment. It is elected office. He can't lose the job except by impeachment.

Whether it is a big deal depends. It's not either/or. And the media glare is on him; he would be more motivated not to do it again than someone the media is not interested in.

[tonedevil]

96. I don't even know how to respond...

I read the report and I heard his "defense" he's going to be impeached, sued for civil violations, and likely criminally prosecuted. I'm sad that it doesn't seem that creating a toxic workplace is a serious concern for a significant number of the posters at DU.

[treestar]

98. You didn't respond to the point

you just label things. If he's not going to continue doing it, and is being educated, then the workplace won't be so toxic. Too much of an either/or decision.

[brooklynite]

84. Tell me: has Donald Trump had a determination of guilt?

Or does "we know he's guilty" suffice for Republicans?

People here were happy to make a judgement in favor of Impeachment based on the know facts about Trump. The same applies to Cuomo.

[treestar]

89. It is political too

Trump was not removed from office; the Republicans had enough votes in the Senate and made it clear they would not remove him no matter what he did. They did not even look at the evidence.

While they act like this, we can do the same thing. We aren't saying anything about the underlying behavior. Just that we won't lose elected officials if they don't.

[brooklynite]

90. So you think we should acquit a sexual harassment because Republican blicans do it?

I don’t.

And if the moral question doesn’t appeal to you, try the political one: do you want him as the Democratic nominee at this point?

[treestar]

91. Is the body that will decide majority Democratic?

It will be up to them.

But what is to be expected from this one-sidedness? Another structural advantage to Republicans.

I imagine in NY he would be replaced by a Democrat, but suppose it were a swing state?

[brooklynite]

94. Yes.

Are you saying you haven’t bothered to investigate the impeachment process before saying how unfair it is?

[treestar]

99. I never said the process was unfair

so your hints are irrelevant.

[H2O Man]

2. Recommended.

Cuomo needs to resign. There are things that do not require a criminal conviction that should keep people out of office -- which is, of course, the concept of impeachment.

Even on the one in a million chance he is "innocent," his ability to govern is gone. It is selfish for him to stay and do further damage at a time he can do no good.

[iemanja]

10. Agreed

Thank you.

[H2O Man]

12. You are most welcome.

I've posted more on Andrew on other OPs, and hesitate to repeat myself on more. But I've been well aware of him since his father was in state office, pre-governot. Mario was a capable politician and a good man. The traditional Iroquois leadership trusted him. Andrew is a capable politician and a terrible man. Over the years, I have been friends with some of his family (in laws) and people in Albany near him. I've never liked or trusted him.

[sop]

3. Cuomo will never resign, though he should. He's lost all moral authority and the ability to govern.

Why do some politicians believe they're so indispensable? New York will get along fine without him and all the distractions.

[iemanja]

5. I agree

and he would be replaced by a Democrat if he did resign or was impeached. But then she would be a woman, which isn't acceptable to Cuomo's defenders.

[abqtommy]

6. I think everyone should be held accountable for their behavior. I don't like what happened to

Al Franken and I think investigations and official action are a good and necessary thing. That aside,
if Cuomo had any class at all he would've already resigned. That's what Al did.

There are a lot of areas in our society that need correcting and this is one of them. By working
together we can accomplish productive things.

[ShazamIam]

37. I am really ashamed that Franken was thrown oiut by Democratic. All the Republicans have to do is

point their finger and we dump and abandon our own.

[ShazamIam]

38. I don't think demanding that anyone surrender their rights is classy.

[Mr.Bill]

64. The Al Franken situation

was a republican hit job, plain and simple. Notice that it all went away as soon as he resigned. The same will happen with Cuomo.

[brooklynite]

85. So are you saying that the Democratic Attorney General is corrupt or just incompetent?

You don't believe the findings in her report, so which one is it?

[Mr.Bill]

87. I haven't read the report.

I'll wait for what happens in a courtroom to decide who is guilty or not guilty. That's how we do it in the country I live in.

[brooklynite]

92. That's how we ajudicate criminal charges for n my country...

It’s not how we resolve the question of holding political office.

[Mr.Bill]

93. Then let the impeachment process

proceed. Cuomo can decide how to defend himself there, or not.

[Goonch]

7. ;-{)

[Treefrog]

8. Recommended.

[leftieNanner]

9. Excellent Post

I just had a long conversation with my 27 year old daughter about this very thing. I faced creepy misogynistic crap in office jobs back in the 70s and 80s. One would have hoped that this stuff had gone away. Nope.

But this daughter of mind is 6 feet tall and a trained kick boxer. So boys? Challenge her at your peril.

Makes me sad that we still have to talk about this.

[ShazamIam]

11. It is also as simple as any person charged with a crime has the right to due process.

[iemanja]

13. and the workplace violations?

Would you have him be charged for infractions that aren't crimes? Or are you using the fact they aren't crimes as a sad excuse to absolve him of any responsibility for his actions? You oppose his facing the same consequences of any NY State worker for the same behavior? Why?


And here you are, relying on for an excuse a justice system that results in only 6% of rapists seeing jail time, that habitually lets off cops for killing black people. That is your crutch.

[ShazamIam]

39. Sexual harrassment in the workplace is a crime. What I am objecting to is the demand that he not

not defend himself.

[iemanja]

43. You're objecting to his being held accountable

Do point me to successful prosecutions of people charged with harassing someone in the workplace.

[ShazamIam]

44. No that is what you are saying.The purpose of the Impeachment(indictment)

and the trial that will follow is where accountability is determined.

Not by me.

[H2O Man]

14. Sure, though that has nothing

to do with this case. That's the whole idea behind impeachment.

However, if he is charged criminally, everyone agrees he should have a fair trial.

[ShazamIam]

21. The NY AG has listed allegations, is there an indictment, is there a separate impeachment

investigation? Seems to be a lot of anti-democratic, anti-due process sentiment here, I am surprised and dismayed.

[H2O Man]

22. If he does not resign,

he will be impeached and removed, wuth the support of the vast majority of Democratic Party elected officials, so it seems a stretch to refer to this as "anti-democratic."

It will be up to the district attorney (or attornies) to evaluate criminal charges. Reportedly, at least one is taking a serious look.

[ShazamIam]

51. I guess that is Cuomo's decision, Why the rush to judgement?

[NotANeocon]

55. Off withhis head - but don't rush.

[ShazamIam]

56. Yss. but I thought I was replying to someone elsse on the thread, thanks.

[Blue_true]

26. The Albany DA is looking at criminal charges.

One woman has filed a criminal complaint.

There will likely be articles of impeachment filed against him. That is a quasi legal process.

[H2O Man]

29. It's a civil process

that requires a different level of evidence than a criminal trial.

If I've heard correctly, state leaders have said he has until August 15 to resign, or the impeachment process will begin.

As bad as this is now -- and I am a NYS Democratic Party member -- it will be worse for us if he doesn't resign.

[ShazamIam]

45. Why will it be worse if he doesn't resign?

[ShazamIam]

69. Thanks I understand now, there is both an impeachment and a criminal process in play.

My confusion came because the impeachment committee is using the AG investigation as part of their own investigation.

[Mr.Bill]

65. +1

[Kaleva]

71. There's a separate impeachment investigation going on.

It appears that it's highly likely that Cuomo will be impeached which is a political process and not a criminal one.

Plus, one of the accusers has filed a criminal complaint and DUer brooklynite has said that 3 county DAs are looking at the evidence to see if further criminal charges are warranted.

[ShazamIam]

40. The impeachment is the document that lists the charges, it is not a trial, a trial will follow the

indictment.

[H2O Man]

50. Of course.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

15. What does due process have to do with keeping a job?

He’ll have his day in court. Can he effectively do his job on the meantime?

[ShazamIam]

17. My point is he has the right to due process.

[treestar]

78. It is an elected position not subject to at will employment law

He can effectively do the job. What the rest of the state executive branch is going to refuse to work for him? How would they get away with that?

[bullwinkle428]

23. Honest question - do you believe that Donald Trump received sufficient "due process" over

the course of his two impeachment trials? Because this is exactly what Cuomo will undergo, if he doesn't have the class to just resign.

[NotANeocon]

57. TFGs process is still due, incomplete,and and continues.

[Mr.Bill]

66. His impeachment Senate trials

were rigged republican partisan events. A trial with no witnesses? Please.

[ShazamIam]

70. I don't think demanding that he surrender his right to a trial is classy.

[karynnj]

82. It is more complicated than that. His option may be to resign or there will be an impeachment hearin

An impeachment hearing/trial is a political process and the current conventional wisdom is he will be impeached and removed. It is his decision if he wants to cut that short and just resign. Note that the only outcomes of an impeachment proceeding is he stays in power or is removed, the outcome is essentially political as it depends on the votes, not any judicial proceeding.

As mentioned in many articles. In addition to a possible resignation or impeachment, he may face criminal case(s) for actions that were not just inappropriate, but illegal.

The entire Cuomo saga seems more like a novel. A man born into what could have been a political dynasty, favored with a Clinton administration cabinet position at a young age, who then married into the most powerful Democratic dynasty, but whose flaws ultimately are destroying him. On a political level, he was at times held back by his combative personality, but he still became governor and had some journalists pushing him at various times as a potential president.

As to his alleged harassment of women, I wonder if his own view of himself was that he was irresistible and never changed as he aged. It is extremely bad that he retaliated, at least in the case of Boylan. I find it FAR easier to have more sympathy and respect for her and am horrified by how he and his allies were willing to destroy a young woman who had far less power. Not to mention, that precedent likely was a warning to keep the various other women from speaking out.

Given how much he was given and how entitled he has always been, I personally do not feel any sympathy that his promise has likely turned to ashes. I do hope at least some of his inner circle, that had power through him, will still be at his side when everything falls apart. He will need them and his family.

The Democratic party has many excellent leaders, as accomplished as he without a giant blind spot that allowed Cuomo to not avoid these inappropriate actions. I do understand how hard it would be to have to revise an opinion on an admired politician. Not to mention, the opinion of Cuomo on DU has been a roller coaster. From memory, he was not popular at all until he became the media anti Trump on Covid. Going on actual anti covid actions, a better antiTrump would have been Inslee, which could have been interesting timing.

[Hoyt]

16. A poll on news tonight supposedly indicates 70% of NYers think he should resign.

[ShazamIam]

18. So hey let's show the world, the Democratic don't support due process.

Is there an actual indictment yet?

[Hoyt]

19. He should resign so that he does no further damage to Democrats and

decent men. Sorry.

[ShazamIam]

24. I don't consider that a reason to deny due process. Is there an indictment?

AG James read off the allegations but is there an indictment yet?

[iemanja]

30. He hasn't been denied due process

The investigation you insisted we wait for is finished. He was found culpable of the charges. You consistently and DELIBERATELY ignore the fact that most of the charges against him aren't criminal, so your claim of caring about justice is meaningless. Your excuse is transparent. I don't believe it for a second.

[ShazamIam]

33. Oh, so according to your knowledge base only an investigation and allegations are needed for a

conviction. The Impeachment charges will be the indictment, then there will be a trial.

After going through two turnip impeachments I now understand the process.

The NY AG James, investigated, found evidence of illegal acts and is handing that information to the impeachment committee.

A trial after the Impeachment (the formal charging of a crime or crimes) is like an indictment. Only the charges, then a trial will follow.

[iemanja]

41. Conviction has nothing to do with it

He has found to have broken NY State policy for workplace harassment. He has found to have committed harassment on a repeated basis. He has committed infractions that would get ANY OTHER state employee fired. They are not subject to criminal prosecution, yet they are fired. Only you insist that Cuomo should not be? Why? Because you hold men of power as superior to workers?

Chances are that nothing will happen to Cuomo. The NY legislator will cover up for the sexual predator, just as the Senate did for Trump. Cuomo won't resign because he's a narcissist. The world remains safe for sexual predators. We aren't likely to face a situation in which women's lives will actually matter. A criminal system you pretend to hold such faith in that
rarely convicts police for killing black people and allows 96% of rapists to go free will not hold a sexual predator responsible. Misogyny and racism always win out because this country is filled with misogynists and racists. Male supremacy will be maintained, and sexual predators will continue to violate victims throughout this country on an hourly basis.

That is the judicial system that you rely on for your transparent excuse.

[ShazamIam]

47. Those are allegations produced by the AG James investigation, next, an impeachment, then a trial.

An Impeachment is similar to an indictment it also is not a conviction.

I understand what a failure our U.S. Justice system is and it deeply shames as a citizen.

Denying Cuomo his right to the process isn't a fix.

[Mr.Bill]

67. Due process in this country

includes a defense, not just an investigation.

[ShazamIam]

76. Yes, I agree. nt

[ShazamIam]

58. I believe the opposite is true.

[ShazamIam]

75. I think demanding that he resign without due process is the shameful thing going on.

[treestar]

79. How will it damage the Democrats?

in a country where Kavanaugh was supported to become a Supreme Court Justice and where Presidents have been accused of the same thing and never removed from office over it?

[ripcord]

20. There doesn't need to be an indictment to impeach

He us getting every bit of due process he is entitled to under the impeachment but that isn't the same as due process for a legal proceeding, for instance he wont get to confront his accusers.

[ShazamIam]

25. Impeachment is due process. Has it happened, has he been impeached?

[Blue_true]

28. The legislature judiciary committee has a certified copy of the AG's report.

Articles of impeachment against him will likely follow from that.

[ShazamIam]

31. Ok, then instead of an indictment, there will be an impeachment, that still is not a trial, it

will be the formal charges, then there will be a trial. I don't think Cuomo should resign.

I don't think, "he's making Democratic look bad," is a reason to surrender his own individual rights.

[Blue_true]

34. The District Attorney for the county that includes Albany appears ready

to lodge criminal charges. A criminal inquiry of Cuomo is in progress by the sheriff’s department after a woman lodged a criminal complaint against him (one of his victims).

[ShazamIam]

35. A trial follows an impeachment which is only the bringing of formal charges, not a verdict.

[ShazamIam]

48. An impeachment is an indictment, it is where the formal charges he will be tried for will be

determined.

[Hoyt]

54. Why should he put the state and, to some extent, Democrats in that position?

He needs to resign, it’s the honorable thing at this point.

[ShazamIam]

59. I was confused, I didn't realize the AG was investigating for the impeachment committee.

An impeachment is an indictment, it will list the charges he will be tried for, then a trial will follow.

[ShazamIam]

74. An impeachment is an indictment.

[Kaleva]

72. What is your opinion on the allegations of sexual harrasement against Kavanagh?

Did you think they should have had bearing on if he was qualified to be a SCOTUS Justice or not?

[ShazamIam]

73. It isn't related to the demand that he be denied his due process.

[Kaleva]

86. But should he not have been appointed to SCOTUS even though he was never convicted?

Should allegations alone be sufficient in costing someone a job?

[ShazamIam]

95. Topic move.

[Kaleva]

97. Maybe some who say Cuomo should get due process didn't say the same for Kavanaugh

I'd have to look at the old threads to see.

[Polybius]

83. There may never be a criminal indictment

But he still should resign because it’s proven that he’s guilty of many things.

[NotANeocon]

60. As awise politician once said

poles are for dogs

[Hoyt]

61. Sounds like one of the old Dixiecrats when I was young. 70% is high.

[NotANeocon]

62. No - it was Diefenbaker -

but the question remains are polls due process?

[Hoyt]

63. Are politicians who hold out when a solid majority want them to resign, treating

constituents fairly? I vote, NO.

[NotANeocon]

27. Adventuresin Wonderland.

Then the words don't fit you,' said the King, looking round the court with a smile. There was a dead silence.

`It's a pun!' the King added in an offended tone, and everybody laughed, `Let the jury consider their verdict,' the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.

`No, no!' said the Queen. `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'

`Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. `The idea of having the sentence first!'

`Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple.

`I won't!' said Alice.

`Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.

`Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) `You're nothing but a pack of cards!'

[iemanja]

32. You think you're cute

Instead you're transparent. There is no excuse more empty than the he deserves his day in court since most of the charges aren't even criminal. Of course you know that.

[Blue_true]

36. A criminal complaint has been lodged against him. It is being investigated. nt

[iemanja]

42. the results of the investigation are in

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.08.03_nyag_-_investigative_report.pdf

[Blue_true]

46. The criminal complaint was lodged in the county that includes Albany.

It is being investigated by the sheriff for that county. It is deprecate from the AG investigation report.

[NotANeocon]

52. Can you spell SATIRE?

[ShazamIam]

49. Go ask Alice indeed.

[NotANeocon]

53. She's just next door I think - or she might have moved?

[Ohio Joe]

68. I always hate it when a Dem does shitty things like this...

But he did it and needs to go.

[gulliver]

80. Cuomo needs to go (and hopefully drag Trump with him)

If Cuomo is allowed to stay, it's saying Trump's Ok too.

When Cuomo resigns, as I hope he does, I hope he spends some time dragging Trump's sexual assaults back into the spotlight. Cuomo could do that service.