Update on my friend with COVID (& his husband)

[Coventina]

Well, they're both sick now. The husband came down with it a few days after my friend got sick.
(In case this is the first thread you've read, they are both fully vaccinated).

They have bad coughs, trouble breathing, and extreme fatigue.

They are maintaining close contact with their doctor in case one or both need further intervention.

Good thing they were vaccinated, or they'd both be in the hospital.

I'm finally back in town, so I can bring them anything they might need.

Thanks to all of you who have expressed support!!

[hollygolively]

1. Glad they were vaxxed.

This virus seems to be something altogether new for us. I just looked up stats for the regular seasonal flu vaccines. I was pretty shocked to find out their effectiveness rates are far lower than the effectiveness rate for the COVID-19 vaccines. It seems the best they can do is in the 70% range.

The COVID-19 vaccines peak at around 90% and, apparently do become less effective over time. I got Pfizer. According to this article by Yale Medicine, the Pfizer drops to 84% after six months.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

Still much better than the regular seasonal flu vaccines. In all cases, the COVID-19 vaccines are almost 100% assured to prevent against a severe case and hospitalization.

If I need a Pfizer booster later, or sooner due to Delta, just tell me where to line up.

[niyad]

2. Thank you for the update. Glad that they are both vaxxed. Continuing vibes for both

for full and swift recovery.

Please take very good care of yourself as well.

[womanofthehills]

3. Israel says Pfizer is 39% effective for getting Covid

Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads, but still prevents severe illness. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html.

My daughter ‘s vaxxed friend (a nurse) and her vaxxed
husband both came down with Covid. Three weeks she has had it - and not able to go back to work yet.

[orleans]

11. your link doesn't work (page not found)

so i did a search on cnbc for 39% effective and got this link -- is this the same article from july 28?
Pfizer’s CEO says Covid vaccine effectiveness drops to 84% after six months

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/pfizers-ceo-says-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-drops-to-84percent-after-six-months.html?&qsearchterm=39%%20effectiveness

[TheBlackAdder]

15. There was a British Health report that just being vaccinated, and Delta was better controlled.

.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf



Page 38: Monitoring of vaccine effectiveness

Analysis of routine testing data up to the 11 June 2021, linked to sequencing and S-gene target status has been used to estimate vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease using a test negative case control design.Methods and detailed results are available in Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against the Delta variant. After a single dose there was an14% absolute reduction in vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease with Delta compared to Alpha,and a smaller 10% reduction ineffectiveness after 2 doses (Table 8).

Page 39 continues with further clarification that hospitalizations are reduced.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257658v1

Conclusions After 2 doses of either vaccine there were only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness with the B.1.617.2 variant. Absolute differences in vaccine effectiveness were more marked with dose 1. This would support maximising vaccine uptake with two doses among vulnerable groups.

[LeftInTX]

16. That report was shown to have wording issues

Because 85% of the population if fully vaccinated, it means that almost everyone who gets Covid in Israel is fully vaccinated.

The actual numbers in Israel are quite low.

[LisaL]

17. Current Israel's numbers are not low at all.

They are having quite the outbreak.
Their seven day average is 4,221 per day, and they are a country of less than 10 million people.

[NJCher]

13. vaccine protection percentages

It seems the best they can do is in the 70% range.

I heard a radio show where the commentator cited two or three countries where the population masks up in winter to cut down on flu. It was suggested that after the Covid experience, the U.S. might be doing that, too.

Now that I've seen this figure of 70%, I for sure will be doing it, even if Covid were to disappear tomorrow.

It truly is amazing what the scientists have done with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. How the percentage of the population that is going unmasked fails to realize how truly fortunate we are escapes me.

[FalloutShelter]

4. Very scary stuff.

Wishing your friends well and to you for being a good friend.

[LymphocyteLover]

5. some scary analysis here

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/too-many-people-are-dying-of-covid-19-right-now.html

[LisaL]

6. Delta appears to be more contagious and more deadly.

NT

[LymphocyteLover]

7. Yes and causing a lot of problems even with vaccinated people

[LisaL]

8. Yep. Breaking through the vaccines, unfortunately.

Which is why we need boosters approved ASAP. I mean, like that article points out, we are doing almost nothing we could be doing to prevent this, other than vaccines. We are "wide open" and not doing nearly enough testing. At least approve the boosters.

[Meowmee]

9. Sorry to hear that

I hope they will both be ok and recover asap. At any sign of worsening they need to get help immediately. I hope they have a pulse ox meter.

We are still wearing kn95 masks and sd. Currently visiting people in hospital yet again. I hate coming here because I know there is more risk. I see visitors not wearing masks properly and I have no clue who is vaxed here among both staff, patients and visitors. Patients at least are tested before being admitted.

[calimary]

10. Thank you for the update!

Sheesh! Thank goodness they were vaccinated!

Very happy to hear that, and this, too!

[babylonsister]

12. Thank you. This is

what I've been wanting to know, how ill vaxxed people can get. Sounds horrible, and I wish your friends better health now. They're lucky to have you to help.

[Gore1FL]

14. I am sorry they have Covid, but glad they have you.

Please stay safe!

[Rustyeye77]

18. Bring Chicken Soup

It kills viruses….that’s what my mother told me.lol

[COL Mustard]

19. I Hope Everyone Will Make A Quick Recovery

....

[LetMyPeopleVote]

20. It may be too late now but monoclonal antibody treatments are effective

My son had decided that if I test positive we will be headed to Methodist for an infusion

[cadoman]

21. thank you for sharing and here is a link to a protocol you might ask about

If they've already been vaccinated there's not much to do in that respect. If you don't find it overwhelming I'd encourage you to print a copy of this protocol and review it with their doctors:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-%E2%80%93-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf

Why am I suggesting this? Research has demonstrated that patients who show interest, attentiveness, and even some healthy skepticism about their treatment have better outcomes. Basically, it forces doctors and nurses to be on their A game. You're double checking the dosages, comparing your notes, watching for side effects, checking cost/benefit, asking about other treatments etc. Being passive yields a lower and costlier standard of care.

MATH+ has been around since before the vaccines and it's always evolving. It does a great job of breaking down the stages of the disease and showing what treatments can be applied at each stage and the science behind them. They have apparently added I-MASK+ and I-MASS protocols also for prevention and outpatient treatment.

Note that although the protocol is described as being for hospitalized patients, and your friends are not currently in the hospital, the protocol does state that breathing trouble is good cause to go to the hospital.

Thank you for being a good friend and hope they are both better soon!

[lapucelle]

22. I still have questions about why anyone would advise downloading a 55 page protocol from this group

and taking it to a doctor as if it's indicative of best practices recommendations from the CDC, NIH, or FDA.


And why is FLCCC Alliance afraid they might be "censored"?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where do the bulk of their donations go?

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/43756900

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/04-3756900

[cadoman]

23. the document is available broken down by stage of the disease

I'm a reader and love digging into the details, and have personal experience with the treatment. You make a great point and I shouldn't have assumed OP would want to read all that.

For hospitalized patients (2 pages):
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/FLCCC-Alliance-MATHplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf

For prevention and early outpatient treatment (2 pages):
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf

For long haulers (3 pages):
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/FLCCC-Alliance-I-RECOVER-Management-Protocol-for-Long-Haul-COVID-19-Syndrome.pdf

My experience with family and friends in the hospital is that paying attention, asking questions, and being willing to switch doctors/hospitals are critical skills for navigating a successful outcome. The recommendations made by CDC/WHO/NIH aren't holy law. They're simply the opinions that scrapped their way to the top of the bureaucratic heap as it's comprised at this moment. Anyone who's watched the CDC in action the last year knows how fast that can change.

If you've watched cable news you've been bombarded by those "ask your doctor about" commercials. Well it works the same way even for medicines that aren't paid advertisements. You can ask your doctor about MATH plus or I-MASK and "see if it's right for you". You can also switch doctors if you aren't happy with the reasoning of their answers. It's no different than getting a second opinion about a surgery.

I'm aware there is a strong political component to the CDC and COVID treatment, and the site I linked likely falls afoul of that, but I felt my experience with the treatment and someone's life being at stake superseded the politics of the situation. lapucelle, I can rest easy now, having shared the info, if you want the final word.

[lapucelle]

24. "Readers who love digging" should not proffer medical advice from a group with a financial interest

in having its "protocols" adopted, especially when the group, as you admit, runs "afoul of the CDC and covid treatment" best practices recommendations, and most especially during a resurgent pandemic.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any claim that

The recommendations made by CDC/NIH [are] simply the opinions that scrapped their way to the top of the bureaucratic heap as it's comprised at this moment.

borders on disinformation.

Recommendations made by the CDC and the NIH are not "simply opinions". They are based on data-driven, peer reviewed research and are most frequently labeled "interim" because as the virus spreads and evolves, the situation changes. As the virus evolves and outbreak shifts, the data changes, and the interim recommendations are updated. That's how science works.

And the fact that the right wing has used this reality about science to politicize the CDC is not the same as your assertion that there is "a strong political component" to the CDC. The CDC is apolitical.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your analogy that unsolicited medical advice suggested on internet chat boards is akin to "ask your doctor about commercials" is exactly the problem, especially considering the profit motive of the FLCCC. There's lots of money to be made, both from private dark money donations and from the price tag of employing its protocols and all the necessary pharmaceutical products. Why is FLCCC afraid of being "censored" and why does it want my money?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[George II]

25. Wow, was that website put together by doctors and medical workers or lawyers? They've got quite....

....a long list in their "Website Disclaimer" and "Privacy Policy".

One needs a law degree to decipher it all.

[lapucelle]

29. And according to Pro Publica, FLCCC's parent company showed $1.5+ billion in revenue

according to it's most recently available tax filing (2019).

[LetMyPeopleVote]

27. You are spreading disinformation and bad data

The site you took this from is not trustworthy

[George II]

26. Their website appears to be one long advertisement for Ivermectin. Of all the links....

....on their home page, 18 have to do with the benefits of Ivermectin.

There's even a Joe Rogan podcast!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

28. The RWNJ sites are pushing that treatment

I have seen this drug promoted on the RWNJ sites.

Link to tweet