General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCOVID SCIENCE-Moderna may be superior to Pfizer against Delta; breakthrough odds rise with time
Aug 9 (Reuters) - The following is a roundup of some of the latest scientific studies on the novel coronavirus and efforts to find treatments and vaccines for COVID-19.
Moderna's vaccine may be best against Delta
The mRNA vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech may be less effective than Moderna's against the Delta variant of the coronavirus, according to two reports posted on medRxiv on Sunday ahead of peer review. In a study of more than 50,000 patients in the Mayo Clinic Health System https://bit.ly/37Btmhf, researchers found the effectiveness of Moderna's vaccine against infection had dropped to 76% in July - when the Delta variant was predominant - from 86% in early 2021. Over the same period, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine had fallen to 42% from 76%, researchers said. While both vaccines remain effective at preventing COVID hospitalization, a Moderna booster shot may be necessary soon for anyone who got the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines earlier this year, said Dr. Venky Soundararajan of Massachusetts data analytics company nference, who led the Mayo study.
In a separate study, elderly nursing home residents in Ontario produced stronger immune responses - especially to worrisome variants - after the Moderna vaccine than after the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The elderly may need higher vaccine doses, boosters, and other preventative measures, said Anne-Claude Gingras of the Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute in Toronto, who led the Canadian study. When asked to comment on both research reports, a Pfizer spokesperson said, "We continue to believe... a third dose booster may be needed within 6 to 12 months after full vaccination to maintain the highest levels of protection."
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/covid-science-moderna-may-superior-203636135.html
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Which could be why it's more durable.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)I am not following your statement on claiming that Moderna uses 3 times higher mRNA per shot than Pfizer
Please explain
LisaL
(44,974 posts)"Each dose of Pfizers contains 30 micrograms of vaccine. Moderna went with a much larger dose of vaccine, 100 micrograms. It means the company is using a little more than three times as much vaccine per person as Pfizer is."
https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/02/comparing-the-covid-19-vaccines-developed-by-pfizer-moderna-and-johnson-johnson/
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,786 posts)No issues at all.
But I will get the boosters regardless.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Meanwhile other countries are already boosting.
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,786 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)NT
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)for my age group.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)I took anything I could get, but my 2nd booster will be 6 months old this month. So Im being cautious until we all know better.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Moderna x 2 plus on Fenofibrate for hyperlipidemia.
a kennedy
(29,680 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,688 posts)What is to stop someone fully vaxxed with Pfizer from finding a different provider and getting a moderna?
I am by no means saying we should or even need to, but too many people will read articles similar to this and think why wait.
The trouble I see with the reporting is there is not enough context. Testing positive vs dying on a vent. How does Pfizer stack up in effectiveness to flu vax or shingles shot.
We need to learn better to live with this. It is not going to go away. Variants will keep brewing in heavily populated places and hitch a ride with international travel.
flying rabbit
(4,636 posts)Worried2020
(444 posts).
Mask on b4 I even open my door to go outside. I live in an apartment building where almost everyone refuses to mask up or practice social distancing - including the landlord and his agents. I avoid anyone not masked, and businesses that allow anyone in their establishments to go without masks.
our records here (Ontario) are put into a database the instant we get the jab - each worker/nurse that administers the jab has their own terminal where they enter your information, and by the time i got home from both jabs, an email with a Covid vaccination certificate with all my details, the specific version of vaccine, and the worker's name. Not likely anyone can get a 3rd jab unless they qualify - workers enter patient's info b4 the jab, so they know your history immediately.
I'm 70, with various health issues, so am a high risk dude. I got Pfizer both shots - no reactions whatsoever - I dunno if that's a good sign or not
W
appalachiablue
(41,153 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,688 posts)I take all the same precautions as I do in flu season with the addition the mask. I hate that thing but I wear it whenever I leave home or if visitors come inside.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Not in huge numbers. I don't see that as a problem.
Better people get a third shot than people who refuse to vaccinate.
Irish_Dem
(47,166 posts)The booster is just another regular vaccine dose?
Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #10)
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)The big issue is, when are they going to be approved in the US?
Here, there are a bunch of different pharmacies administering shots. Supposedly there is a database, but I don't how easy it is to check.
If you go to the same place to get a booster, they will likely figure it out, but if you go to a different pharmacy-who knows.
If authorities are dragging their feet on booster approval, more and more people will be trying to get boosters without approval. And I can't say that I blame them.
Celerity
(43,443 posts)here and in Germany (the 3 countries that trialled it as far as I know).
I posted official CDC/NIH links here multiple times for people to sign up for the US trials months ago.
you were one of only a few people who even replied at all on any of the posts
an example:
If you want to get involved in the Moderna variant-tweaked vaccine study they are enrolling now
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100215290852
The vax is called Moderna mRNA-1273.351
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-evaluating-moderna-covid-19-variant-vaccine-begins
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04785144
Brief Summary:
This is a phase 1, open-label, randomized clinical trial in males and non-pregnant females, 18 years of age and older, who are in good health, have no known history of COVID-19 or SARS-CoV-2 infection, and meet all other eligibility criteria. This clinical trial is designed to assess the safety, reactogenicity and immunogenicity of mRNA-1273.351 manufactured by ModernaTX, Inc, given in vaccination schedules alone, sequentially, or coadministered with mRNA-1273. mRNA-1273.351 is a novel lipid nanoparticle (LNP)-encapsulated mRNA-based vaccine that encodes for a full-length, prefusion stabilized S protein of the SARS-CoV-2 B.1.351 variant. Enrollment will occur at approximately five domestic clinical research sites.
This study includes two cohorts. Cohort 1 will provide rapid information about the immunogenicity of mRNA-1273.351 in a previously vaccinated group. This cohort can inform near term public health decisions if the variant virus becomes more widespread. Cohort 2 will evaluate different strategies for generation of cross protective immune responses in a naïve population. This cohort will take longer to provide information on the immunogenicity of mRNA-1273.351, but is important to inform future public health strategies. Cohort 1 will include approximately 60 subjects 18 years of age and older who received two vaccinations of mRNA-1273 at dosages of 50 mcg, 100 mcg, or 250 mcg in the Phase 1 clinical trial (DMID 20-0003). Subjects in Cohort 1 will receive a single intramuscular (IM) injection of the designated vaccine and will be followed through 12 months after vaccination. Follow-up visits will occur on Days 8, 15, and 29, as well as 3, 6, and 12 months after the vaccination. Cohort 2 will include approximately 150 participants 18 through 55 years of age who have not received a COVID-19 vaccine, have no known history of COVID-19 or SARS-CoV-2 infection, and do not have underlying conditions that are associated with an increased risk of severe illness from SARS-CoV-2 infection. They will be randomly assigned to one of 6 treatment arms and will receive 2 or 3 IM injections of the vaccine and followed through 12 months after the last vaccination. Follow-up visits will occur 7, 14, and 28 days after each vaccination, as well as 3, 6 and 12 months post the last vaccination.
The primary objective is to evaluate the safety and reactogenicity of mRNA-1273 and mRNA-1273.351 vaccines, in naïve and previously vaccinated individuals
Detailed Description:
This is a phase 1, open-label, randomized clinical trial in males and non-pregnant females, 18 years of age and older, who are in good health, have no known history of COVID-19 or SARS-CoV-2 infection, and meet all other eligibility criteria. This clinical trial is designed to assess the safety, reactogenicity and immunogenicity of mRNA-1273.351 manufactured by ModernaTX, Inc, given in vaccination schedules alone, sequentially, or coadministered with mRNA-1273. mRNA-1273.351 is a novel lipid nanoparticle (LNP)-encapsulated mRNA-based vaccine that encodes for a full-length, prefusion stabilized S protein of the SARS-CoV-2 B.1.351 variant. Enrollment will occur at approximately five domestic clinical research sites.
This study includes two cohorts. Cohort 1 will provide rapid information about the immunogenicity of mRNA-1273.351 in a previously vaccinated group. This cohort can inform near term public health decisions if the variant virus becomes more widespread. Cohort 2 will evaluate different strategies for generation of cross protective immune responses in a naïve population. This cohort will take longer to provide information on the immunogenicity of mRNA-1273.351, but is important to inform future public health strategies. Cohort 1 will include approximately 60 subjects 18 years of age and older who received two vaccinations of mRNA-1273 at dosages of 50 mcg, 100 mcg, or 250 mcg in the Phase 1 clinical trial (DMID 20-0003). Subjects in Cohort 1 will receive a single intramuscular (IM) injection of the designated vaccine and will be followed through 12 months after vaccination. Follow-up visits will occur on Days 8, 15, and 29, as well as 3, 6, and 12 months after the vaccination. Cohort 2 will include approximately 150 participants 18 through 55 years of age who have not received a COVID-19 vaccine, have no known history of COVID-19 or SARS-CoV-2 infection, and do not have underlying conditions that are associated with an increased risk of severe illness from SARS-CoV-2 infection. They will be randomly assigned to one of 6 treatment arms and will receive 2 or 3 IM injections of the vaccine and followed through 12 months after the last vaccination. Follow-up visits will occur 7, 14, and 28 days after each vaccination, as well as 3, 6 and 12 months post the last vaccination.
The primary objective is to evaluate the safety and reactogenicity of mRNA-1273 and mRNA-1273.351 vaccines, in naïve and previously vaccinated individuals. The secondary objective is to assess humoral immunogenicity of mRNA-1273 and mRNA-1273.351 vaccines, in naïve and previously vaccinated individuals.
Celerity
(43,443 posts)Celerity
(43,443 posts)into a national database when you get vaccinated. Every interaction with a healthcare provider requires you to give your personnummer (like a social security number), so they instantly can see if you are fully or partially vaxxed. We have a national (and it is part of an EU programme) vax e-certificate as well.
Even my wife and I have one, despite our participation in an experimental Moderna variant-tweaked vax (named mRNA-1273.35) trial. We got our 2nd jabs around 3 months ago. Our e-certificates took an extra couple of weeks, because the vax name was not in the choices listed when entering data for them. It had to be entered manually at national level (and they had to also tell the EU that there was a new vax name for Sweden.)
Had blood draws last week, and our antibody titers, B cell, T helper and T killer cell counts are all off the charts still. Preliminary estimates for efficacy against Beta (the South African variant, B.1.351, that the vax was tweaked for as it was by far the worst variant against the original Modena mRNA-1273 vax) and Delta (the variant that for some reason it performed best against) looks to be both at least 95/96% (perhaps higher for some of the variants) and that is the efficacy number for stopping all transmission, not for preventing serious symptomatic disease or preventing hospitalisation and/or preventing death. The efficacy for those will all be over 99% more than likely.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Despite using a higher dose, Moderna was not getting better results than Pfizer during first couple of months after injection.
But while Pfizer's efficacy appears to be dropping off, Moderna's seems to be holding steady, at least over 6 months period.
Is that dose related?
roamer65
(36,745 posts)That is the main difference between the two vaccines.
helpisontheway
(5,008 posts)One of my sons moves into an on campus apartment (essentially a dorm with a full kitchen). I'm so worried about him moving during this spike. We do not know if his roommate is vaccinated. We do not know if he is some anti vax nut. We do not know anything about his suitemates. I hope Moderna (along with other immune boosters) keeps him safe. I will be so happy once they start offering boosters to everyone. I don't want it to get to a point where the elderly start getting ill again because they needed a boost.