Gov Cuomo didn't realize that he had crossed a line when he touched the breast of a woman who worked

[milestogo]

for him. Poor guy. Somebody should have sent him a memo when we redrew the lines (I guess it used to be ok to do that).

[North Shore Chicago]

1. Cuomo is soooooo

trump-like.


Hopefully he will be charged and indicted on criminal charges so he will no longer be able to run for office. New York needs him to go away, mad or not.

[live love laugh]

2. Was the accusation confirmed?

[milestogo]

3. Exactly how can that be confirmed?

He's not foolish enough to do these things in front of witnesses. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.

[live love laugh]

4. If it's not confirmed it doesn't mean he did do it either.

[Scrivener7]

6. The Puritans required 2 witnesses to convict for rape. Maybe that would work.

[milestogo]

7. I can't believe we still have to have this discussion.

[live love laugh]

8. Why?

[Piasladic]

45. What kind of evidence

What kind of evidence would you like? Throw the 11 women in a lake and see if they drown?

[Ms. Toad]

69. I think you stumbled into the wrong forum. n/t

[live love laugh]

75. Why?

[Nexus2]

81. I think "Believe the Woman (or the accuser) meant 'Take them seriously and treat their

accusation with due dignity and diligence that it requires as very serious matter' not that any such accusation is automatically true regardless especially in criminal matters.

[live love laugh]

82. My question is regarding why I'm assumed to be in the wrong forum. nt

[live love laugh]

84. Where is what you explained not being done? Who's not taking this seriously? nt

[Nexus2]

88. Actually, I replied to the wrong post, my apologies.

But what I was referring was how some seemed, confused even somewhat angered when evidence of the officer's claims was requested. Perhaps I misread?

[Ms. Toad]

83. The attitude you are expressing is right out of the 70s, and earlier -

and most progressives are well beyond requiring witnesses to prove sexual harassment, since most progressives realize the your average sexual offfender isn't going to offend in the middle of Times Square.

[live love laugh]

85. I never said there had to be witnesses. nt

[Ms. Toad]

86. I'm not going to play games about sexual harassment, assault, or rape. n/t

[live love laugh]

87. Neither am I. nt

[wnylib]

112. Have you listened to or read all of

AG James' report on the findings of the investigation?

Letitia James cited corroborating testimony and evidence that substantiated the claims against Cuomo. The women spoke to others about things that happened soon afterward. In some cases there were records of them doing that, in e-mails and official complaints that were ignored.

So the results of the investigation were not just he said/ she said. Cuomo himself admits that he touched the trooper. I don't recall that the touch was on the breast, as the OP says. It was on the belly between the breasts and lower abdomen if I recall correctly.

I was willing to wait for the results of the investigation before drawing conclusions about Cuomo. I am satisfied that the investigation was thorough. I am very disappointed in Cuomo because he had presented himself as a champion of women's rights and he did accomplish some things for women. But that does not absolve him of responsibility for his personal behavior with women that he worked with or around.

[treestar]

114. Could have answered with "yes" the accusation was confirmed

[treestar]

113. So what is required to prove it?

You seem to be saying there should be no proof requirement. Don't you see any problem with an accusation alone being enough? Anyone could accuse another person of sexual harassment and you believe it?

I can't believe any progressive would really countenance what you are implying. The poster only asked if there was anything more than an accusation.

And if he's smart enough to do it without witnesses, he is smart enough to know not to do it.

In the case of politicians, there IS a motive for false accusation.

[EYESORE 9001]

22. Confirmed...

[Rorey]

11. Having been groped myself...

It has happened to many of us, and of course we couldn't prove it without a witness.

I'm so glad we're finally free to speak out. Back in the day when a person in a position of power did something inappropriate, we just had to shut up and move on.

I'm curious about how you think the multiple accusations should be confirmed.

[Walleye]

17. 👍

[PoliticAverse]

40. People wonder why more women don't come forward and tell - this Cuomo situation is another example

Last edited Thu Aug 12, 2021, 07:01 AM - Edit history (1)

of why more women don't even now.

[Rorey]

62. Yup

I had four kids to feed. I couldn't afford to lose my job, which was always a real possibility.

[PufPuf23]

73. Looks like the reports are valid about Cuomo

but women do not always tell the truth, just like men do not always tell the truth.

Obviously facts are that men are orders of magnitude more likely to sexually assault or abuse a power relationship.

[treestar]

115. Why shouldn't an accusation of anything have to be confirmed?

Of anyone about anything?

Even outside of legality (where of course innocent until proven guilty) what if someone unfairly accuses another?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

16. Yes. He resigned.

[live love laugh]

21. Resigning does not confirm this specific act. nt

[Rorey]

33. What WOULD confirm it, in your opinion? NT

[CrackityJones75]

39. Al Franken resigned...

I don’t believe he was guilty of sexual assault or harassment.

Edit: for the record I do believe that Cuomo definitely needed to resign.

[Rorey]

61. I agree

I don't think that resignation is an admission of guilt, but am curious about what would be the tipping point at which those who are defending Cuomo will no longer do so.

I was never inclined to believe that Al Franken was guilty, but I could be wrong. I was a fan of Franken long before he became a senator, and in his case, there seemed to be ample motivation for his accusers to target him. But, still, I could be wrong. I was certainly dead wrong about John Edwards.

I don't know. It's a very complicated thing. When we like someone, we tend to be defensive and unbelieving that they could be guilty of wrongdoing. Maybe we'll find out the truth, and maybe we won't.

[CrackityJones75]

72. The thing is.

For me it is REALLY hard to not look at what is being done with Newsom in California and not look at Cuomo and ask if there isn’t something afoot to bring these large dem state governors down.

However, the accusations against Cuomo are substantial and credible. Are they to the level of impeachable? Probably. I believe the women making the accusations. And I believe Cuomo is making the right decision for the health of his state. However we NEED to hold that state. And we NEED to hold California.

[treestar]

116. So the accusation alone is enough?

[Rorey]

120. Did I say that?

No. No, I didn't.

[treestar]

121. Then what would confirm it, in your opinion?

Since you believe accusations alone are not enough?

It seemed like you were setting the other poster up to claim they were unwoke or whatever about sexual harassment, which seems common and above they are saying a person who merely wanted some confirmation was wrong.

But I apologize for assuming that you took that stance.

[Rorey]

123. Assumptions

I've found it's not a good idea to assume people are saying something that they didn't say.

My question, which prompted your original post to me, was directed at a specific poster in order to get some clarification. I wasn't trying to set anyone up. It's somewhat insulting that you would say something like that, but I'll let it pass because you obviously don't know me.

None of us here know what happened between Cuomo and multiple women. I'm happy that we're finally at a point in time where women (and men, too) don't have to just shut up and take it when someone acts inappropriately. I'm no longer in the workforce, but I lived that life for years.

Realistically, I think we can all agree that Cuomo is probably never going to admit to wrongdoing. Multiple women have made accusations, and in at least one case, there were witnesses. It's likely that as the investigation plays out, people will come forward to corroborate what the women have said. We do tend to vent to each other about creepy men. Just sayin'.

[treestar]

124. Doesn't mean that Cuomo did it

no one's personal experience does. If men have been creepy to us personally, it doesn't prove anything about another one. But you've confirmed there is no confirmation yet and that confirmation consists of some other women saying the same thing in your opinion.

Trump boasted of it on tape and when talking about the beauty pageants, which for me helps confirm that he was guilty.

[Rorey]

126. I'm sure we don't know as much as Leticia James now knows

I'll defer to her expertise, and I'll wait and see what happens.

That said, I didn't EVER say that "Cuomo did it". I stand by what I *have* said.

I won't be responding to any more of your posts on this. I like to think of this as a discussion forum, not an arguing forum, and your posts on this topic are just a bit too abrasive to me. Have a great day.

[treestar]

127. I do not think my posts are that abrasive

don't be so sensitive. You asked what confirmation would be. I was nice when you accused me of misinterpreting your stance.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

52. It would if he were Republican though.

[live love laugh]

54. Huh? 🙃

[50 Shades Of Blue]

56. Right.

[live love laugh]

80. Right what? Your statement that it would fly if he were Republican is alarming.

Because the last president had 43 accusers and nothing happened to him. So what’s your point?

[live love laugh]

109. Crickets to 43 accusers...right indeed. nt

[treestar]

117. That's not it

This contingent would believe it of a Republican and will believe it of a Democrat, because they are content with the accusation alone.

Asking for confirmation for an accusation of Trump would be the same, though you could more likely in his case find confirmation, like his "pussy grabbing" tape, which showed his attitude.

But one would need some for the others, too - Kavanaugh is an example, maybe there was not any real proof, so he's on the court. But if it were a Democrat, they would not be on the court, but not because a Republican dominated Senate cared if they harassed anyone, but just because they were liberal.

[OnDoutside]

103. To be fair, he resigned when faced with the prospect that he would be impeached and removed. I don't

believe he would otherwise have resigned.

[Meowmee]

74. No it wasn't, he denied that

The fact that it was denied and hasn’t legally been proven does not matter to many here and elsewhere. There were also serious issues with the investigation, exculpatory evidence was not searched for, and any given was left out, the majority of interviews were not taken under oath and were taken without a court reporter, no transcripts of anything were provided ahead of time to anyone apparently except to the NYS assembly who was already starting impeachment procedures and to various DA who may choose to investigate possible criminal charges.

My advice to politicians and others who may be targets is to put cameras in all offices etc. and to not meet alone with anyone ever. Many dems in NY are not happy with what has happened. There was also a poll on cnn I think last week that showed 51% of dem voters wanted him to resign so it was about half and half.

[Nexus2]

79. IIRC, they were witnessed and/or corroborated by contemporaneous communications. [nt]

[pnwmom]

97. What was confirmed was that several of his staffers were watching Cuomo on TV

as he talked about how he had never done anything improper with any woman.

And then this woman got very upset and ran out of the room. Later, she told them what he'd done to her.

So it was a "spontaneous outcry," which can carry weight in court, along with other factors.

[OnDoutside]

104. I think you may have meant to ask whether the accusation was proven, rather than confirmed.

[live love laugh]

110. Thanks maybe it's the word choice. nt

[Scrivener7]

5. Now, now. I was told yesterday by a DUer that this is really just unfair to men because

these days it is impossible for them to know what is and isn't acceptable in their behavior around women.

He also told me that no one but Cuomo actually knows if he behaved inappropriately.

Will no one think of the grope-y men?? It's so hard for them!!!

The humanity!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. .

He also told me that no one but Cuomo actually knows if he behaved inappropriately.

What the fuck is this shit right here.

[Rorey]

13. Us women-folk don't know nothin'

That's what I'm reading into that.

[Scrivener7]

19. Well, what was it, a dozen women? They don't ACTUALLY know if they were groped.

I love what Cuomo did for us with Covid.

I was a woman in a job in the 80s that had previously been done only by men, so I knew how to make harassment fall off my back, and I could even see back in the day that some men did not think they were disrespecting me. (I never would let it pass today, but you had to then.)

But in this day and age, I just really don't give a rat's patooty about the excuses and the justifications. And don't tell me that you are smart enough to run New York but you're too stupid to know where the line is drawn.

I'm terribly disappointed, but he had to go.

[Rorey]

30. Yep, back in the day they actually thought it was sort of a compliment

I'm sure it's still difficult for some men to grasp that some of the words that come out of their mouths toward women in a professional setting are NOT okay, but any that think it's okay to grope are just plain icky.

How about if they just keep their hands (and other parts) completely to themselves. Truth be told, I don't even like to shake hands anymore. Well, I never really did, but I allowed it because it was considered polite. I can do without people who don't have permission to touch me touching me.

[Scrivener7]

15. Right? I told him what to do with himself, but someone else alerted and now it's gone, thank God.

But they walk among us.

[MLAA]

12. Shaking my head.

Reminder: if you are confused and unsure what is appropriate behavior: keep conversation to work or the weather and keep hands to yourself (ie don’t touch anyone else and for fucks sake don’t ‘touch’ yourself at work or on work zoom calls. There, done.

[DiamondShark]

92. And for good measure don't take a selfie with the guy you are accusing sexual harassment n/t

[Treefrog]

25. Seriously? Someone here said that?

Sadly, I’m not that surprised.

[Scrivener7]

27. Yup. It felt like a throwback to the old MRA days.

[treestar]

118. Probably not

It's just an interpretation of what was said, most likely.

Though it was unfair in the past when women were never granted any consequences for a groper, some decide to make up for that with job loss for any man accused. Look above, clearly saying no confirmation of an accusation should ever be required.

[niyad]

46. Somebody here on DU actually made that revolting, woman-dismissing statement?

That is disgusting,

[Irish_Dem]

9. I don't remember a time when it was OK for a random male to touch a woman's breast.

I was born in the 1950's.

My mother was born in the 1920's, my grandmother in the late 1890's and they never talked about it being OK
for some random guy to touch their breasts either. So for at least the last 100 years I never heard of such behavior being OK from the women in my family.

[milestogo]

14. + a brazillion

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. Oh see but you're listening to women. That's where the confusion is.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Males apparently have a different set of rules.

I should have talked to my father and grandfather for their opinion.

[Walleye]

20. It was never OK, but there often were no consequences

[Irish_Dem]

24. Right, even if a woman reported the behavior, nothing would be done.

[Walleye]

29. Exactly. The consequences for the women are often worse than for the male perpetrator

[Irish_Dem]

31. Yes it was humiliating to talk about it. And the woman would be blamed or called a liar.

[MaryMagdaline]

35. The only debate we ever had about this is whether it was morally correct to

slap a guy’s face (or worse). Sometimes we considered physical violence as more ethical than turning him in (“narcing” on him). Suddenly HIS problem - not keeping hands to himself - became our problem. Glad the problem is now where it belongs. Let the would-be assaulters guess the consequences.

[Raine]

70. EXACTLY, that generational stuff is just pure bullshit 🙄

my grandfather was born in the late 1800s too and sure the hell knew better then that!

[Irish_Dem]

101. I had one grandfather born in 1882 and one in 1893. Both knew better yes.

I was very observant from a young age. I never saw my grandfathers, uncles, my father exhibit inappropriate behavior in front of women or children. No off-color jokes, language, etc. I heard from my brothers when they were teens, that one of my grandfathers tended to swear when aggravated, but he never did it in front of the ladies or kids.

I was one of those kids that never missed a trick, even when young. If the men were acting badly I would have noticed.
Also note that men in Irish families tend to drink and even when in their cups, the men minded their p's and q's with the women, at least from what I could observe.

[treestar]

125. They'd get away with it

it was "ok" to the society of that time, which was not going to fire anyone for it. Now they always get fired just on accusation. Neither extreme is just.

[snowybirdie]

26. Rules of conduct

between men and women in the workplace have been known by everyone for over 30 years. Come on Gov., that one is B.S. and you are making a fool of yourself.

[brooklynite]

28. I am a New York State employee

EVERY year of my employment I had to take a sexual harassment class. "They redrew the lines" was never an acceptable excuse.

[femmedem]

37. Exactly. Plus he falsified documentation of his attendance at a sexual harrassment training.

Of course, he knew the lines had been redrawn--but it's a moot point, because even if he didn't know, he should have.

[milestogo]

38. It was always wrong, but men used to get away with it.

When I was in my twenties I had bosses call me honey, baby, sweetie and make comments on my appearance. I'm sure they would say that they meant no harm, but the fact that I couldn't call them on it made me feel dominated. Men could tell dirty jokes in front of women - and if you objected you were no fun or a bad sport. But it was a form of harassment.

I am glad that this type of behavior is no longer allowed.

[Phentex]

47. the lines were redrawn here at DU...

when I first got here there were jokes, pics, sexist comments all over the place and if anyone complained they were told to lighten up. Hell, I often mentioned that the rules included a clause for no "bigfoot" discussion but not one for sexism. That has changed.

The point is it hasn't been that long since people have had to be educated on where the lines are. Sad that it even has to be spelled out. Like others have said, dang just keep your hands to yourself. And don't sing love songs over the phone to someone who isn't your partner.

[LeftInTX]

53. But groping crossed the line, even back then

I was watching old Olympic reruns:
They were commenting on gymnast's looks: "Isn't she cute!" (17 yo Olga Korbut)....."Here comes Kathy Johnson and she's another pretty one"

I know what you mean about the dirty jokes....and being called honey, sweetie etc...

I really hated the dirty jokes.......

[milestogo]

57. Not that long ago I shared an office with 2 men who were good friends.

They would often talk to each other in lurid detail about their college sexual experiences. I did not feel I could report this without losing my job, but I felt grossed out and humiliated by it. It was apparently not directed at me, but it was definitely inappropriate talk for work.

It seemed to me that they had absolutely no respect for women.

[PoliticAverse]

43. Cuomo skipped sexual harassment training -- accuser says

In 2018, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo made sexual harassment training mandatory for employees in the state as part of his anti-sexual harassment agenda.

In 2019, the governor skipped the training and instead had a staffer complete it for him, according to a woman who also worked for Cuomo at the time and has since accused him of sexual harassment.

Charlotte Bennett, 25, was the second woman to come forward with accusations against Cuomo, including that he asked her deeply personal sexual questions and made inappropriate comments about her sexual assault.

In an interview with CBS that aired Thursday and Friday, Bennett, a former aide to Cuomo, recounted her experiences, adding that Cuomo did not take the sexual harassment training in 2019.

Read the rest at: https://www.businessinsider.com/cuomo-skipped-sexual-harassment-training-former-aide-says-2021-3?op=1

[Johonny]

89. Someone in my family used to work for him

They didn't deny that possibility all the accusation were true.

[lindysalsagal]

122. Yuppers. Compliance training is strong at all levels in NYS.

[Walleye]

32. Simple rule for men in power.Treat your female colleagues as if they were your mother or your sister

[BeerBarrelPolka]

41. This is the problem

What you've written isn't necessarily true. I give my mom hugs, pecks on the cheek or head, I tell her she looks nice, hold the door open for her, stand when she comes to or leaves the table if I'm seated, etc. According to some women, even complimenting them on their looks is a big no-no, as is holding open doors and such.

[Walleye]

42. Obviously. It depends on the intent. And don't think women can't tell what that is

Often it is just to make the woman feel uncomfortable and exert power, honestly

[Phentex]

48. Do you sing love songs to her on the phone? Ask her if she's slept with older men?

Is it really a problem to not know the difference?

[BeerBarrelPolka]

49. Read my post

Where did I mention any of that?? Stop being part of the problem. I know the difference and posted it. Apparently it is you who doesn't know the difference.

[Phentex]

55. You see this as a problem. Those were your words. It's not.

It's not a problem to know the difference.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

59. No

I clearly stated the problem is you do not see there's a difference. And there is a big difference from holding a door open or giving a compliment, than going into a sexual area. This is where innocent people be they man or woman, get falsely accused of bad things.

[yardwork]

102. Telling your mother she looks nice is different from telling that to a young woman who works for you

[BeerBarrelPolka]

105. Not Actually

There shouldn't be, and in most instances there isn't any difference. If someone interprets it that way when it was meant innocuously , the problem is with the receiver of the compliment. It's called a functioning society. And one of the tenets is kindness. Giving compliments should NEVER be an issue. People just need to be aware of the difference between a compliment and a come-on.

[Nixie]

106. I'm so glad my mom didn't lose her pension after years

and years and years of calling people “Hon” and having a fashion interest in other women’s clothes and stopping to talk to everyone. She’s an ex-New Yorker with Italian heritage — which is apparently hugely threatening.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

107. Yep.

I fully understand where you're coming from. I'm from a 100% Italian family as well.

[FBaggins]

58. But... but... neither one would want to sleep with me

Ohhh... that's the point, isn't it?

Now I get it.

[Walleye]

67. 👍

[snort]

65. How is this going to work in the South?

[Walleye]

66. 😆

[meadowlander]

95. Treat your female colleagues like your male colleagues.

Do your damn job and leave everyone else alone to do theirs.

It's not rocket science.

[Walleye]

100. Yes!

[JanMichael]

34. He's an asshole. I always wondered why DU loved him so much.

Just because he did a good speaky speak when covid happened didn't mean he was ever a decent person. Always too conservative for me I wonder why he wasn't Republican.

Oh that's right daddy was a Democrat. Fucking nepotism.

[PoliticAverse]

44. He was the "anti-Trump" in an increasingly black and white world. n/t

[Raine]

71. Yup that's exactly it and ironically

he was like Trump in being a bully, no respect for women or really no respect for anyone else either.

[CentralMass]

51. I agree.

[Polybius]

64. How was he too conservative?

On every major issue he took the liberal position.

[live love laugh]

76. I'm curious also. I don't know his record but he did a stellar job protecting NYC. nt

[Decoy of Fenris]

90. He got thousands killed shoveling C-19 into nursing homes.

It was painful and depressing to watch; Even moreso seeing people applaud him for doing so because he had a D by his name. If DeSantis did what Cuomo did, DU would be screaming for his head on a pike, but he got a pass, a slap on the ass, and a "Good job" instead.

Thankfully the FBI's finally poking around to see if they can prove criminal negligence among a dozen other charges. The guy's always been a Con in all but name.

[BlueLucy]

91. That's exactly right.

Also, He has not distributed the emergency rent money to people in need. It's been 4 months. I think he ut out a tiny but today but that's it. People are sick, they're dying, stressed about losing their homes. Where is Cuomo on this?

[live love laugh]

93. He shoveled Covid into nursing homes?! 😶

[Decoy of Fenris]

96. Yeah, required nursing homes to take Covid infected folks.

After that, NY hid the numbers of Covid deaths in said nursing homes. The cherry on top was behind-the-scenes deals being cut to shield Nursing Home owners from liability. It was shady as hell but it didn't get much notice, since folks were too busy applauding him. Only now, after his departure, are folks really starting to look into the "Shady backroom" aspects of his policies.

[live love laugh]

99. Republicans pushed this story. DOJ rejected it. nt

[live love laugh]

98. TFG peddled HCQ for $$ and lied daily.

Republicans said old people should just die.

[live love laugh]

111. TFG killed 500,000. nt

[jrthin]

36. I think he did deny that accusation.

[Iggo]

50. When you're a star they let you do that.

[live love laugh]

108. Yeah and where's the outrage about TFG? nt

[LiberalFighter]

60. That statement is evidence.

[Beringia]

63. I am reminded of the short-lived sitcom by Normal Lear called All That Glitters

It aired in 1977, but quickly went off the air. I remember watching it and it seemed so weird beyond comprehension and so was not that funny. But Norman Lear tried to turn sexism in the workplace on its head.

All That Glitters is an American sitcom by producer Norman Lear. It aired between April 18 and July 15, 1977, in broadcast syndication. The show, a spoof of the soap opera format, depicted the trials and tribulations of a group of executives at the Globatron corporation. The twist of the series was that it was set within a world of complete role-reversal: Women were the "stronger sex," the executives and breadwinners, while the "weaker sex" – the men – were the secretaries or stay-at-home househusbands. Men were often treated as sex objects.

Critically, All That Glitters was negatively received and a ratings disappointment across syndicated television stations.

Lear described the premise simply: "God created Eve first, took out her rib and gave her a companion so she wouldn't be lonely." Lear came up with the idea on a trip to Washington, D.C.:

"I had visited the Institute of Policy Studies, and I just loved the whole thing. And I thought there was a series in it—a five-times-a-week series: I went to bed thinking about that, and I woke up the next morning thinking what would happen if the male-female equation were changed? What would happen if the women had all the power and all the advantage, and the men had what the women normally would have?"

The world of All That Glitters had always been female-dominated but Lear also used the series to comment on changing sex roles in the United States in the 1970s.

All That Glitters debuted the week of April 18, 1977, on about 40 stations in late-night syndication. It was poorly critically received, with one reviewer going so far as to call the show's theme song "blasphemous" for suggesting that God was female and created Eve first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_That_Glitters_(TV_series)

[tonedevil]

68. I loved that show /nt

[Nexus2]

77. I thought he meant that the 'lines' were crossed by things he said and crass attitude.

but was and still is denying the more egresious physical contact and groping didn't happen at all?

[ripcord]

78. He broke the increased workplace harassment bill he signed

Any rank and file employee would have been fired for his behavior, why is Cuomo any different?

[ansible]

94. Because he's a democratic governor and we're not supposed to criticize him

Threads like these used to get deleted here

[treestar]

119. Where does that come from?

Did he actually admit to doing it but not thinking it would be a problem?