Ask Me Anything... About DU4
Hello everyone,
Since we're in the middle of our Summer Fund Drive, I thought this might be a good time to tell you about what Elad and I have been working on recently. (Actually, I've been tinkering with this since before I took ownership of DU from Skinner, but we couldn't really start working on it properly until this year, after the election.)
As most of you know, the current version of Democratic Underground -- DU3 -- was launched back in 2011. It was a huge undertaking for us and took a number of years to complete. We rebuilt the entire site from scratch, including the backend database. It was like building a new house from the foundations up.
The new iteration that we're working on -- DU4 -- is not quite like that. Rather than building everything from the ground up again, it's going to be more of a (long overdue IMO) visual overhaul.
Democratic Underground has been around for long time now, and people are well used to the way it works. Like you, I use DU every day, and so it was very important to me that when working on the DU4 design, I should do my utmost to make it "feel" like good old DU, while freshening up the look. So, DU4 is a bespoke design with entirely unique code written by Elad and myself -- we're not just grabbing off-the-shelf Wordpress-type stuff and calling it a day.
Think of DU4 not as a new house you're walking into for the first time; rather, as an old, familiar place that's just been painted and decorated for the first time in a while.
That's not to say that we aren't going to make a few new improvements. We've already gotten at least one long-requested feature up and running on DU4 (see if you can spot it in the pics below), and hope to have more.
WHAT'S NEW?
It's important to know that we're not changing a single thing about DU's underlying database (with the exception of any changes we have to make for new features). Pretty much everything on DU4 will work the way you expect it to, from posting, to journals, to your inbox, to whatever. And there are going to be no changes to the rules, or the Jury system. It's the same old DU.
Probably the biggest changes you'll see on DU4 are going to be a recategorization of the forums, and an overhaul of the site's navigation.
RECATEGORIZATION OF FORUMS
We have a LOT of forums on DU -- in my opinion, too many. We have a number of smaller forums that are barely used. DU is well overdue for a spring cleaning in this area, so that's what we're working towards.
What we're proposing is a slimming down of categories (we currently have dozens of topics that forums are scattered between) and in some areas, a consolidation of forums. That would occur where a number of little-used sub-forums could easily fit into a single broader, busier forum. We're a long way off this part of the project yet, so I won't share my current thinking on which forums to consolidate, but it's something we'll definitely be discussing with you down the road, before we make any changes.
I'll tell you our current thinking on categories though. The idea is to keep our busiest main forums separate (General Discussion, Latest Breaking News, and The DU Lounge), and then fit everything else into six categories:
Issue Forums
Forums which are about issues and politics. For example: Economy, Foreign Affairs, Labor
Culture Forums
Forums which are about typically non-political cultural topics. For example: Comic Books, Music Appreciation, Photography
Alliance Forums
Forums for groups of people who share a common heritage/culture/background etc. For example: Asian, Jewish, LGBT
Region Forums
All our state and country forums.
Support Forums
Forums for people who want to offer each other mutual assistance and support. For example: Bereavement, Mental Health, Seniors
Help Forums
A handful of forums for getting help and information about DU or general computer/Internet issues. For example: Announcements, Community Help, Computer Help and Support
SITE NAVIGATION
I really wanted to make things simple and easy for DU members to get around, and maybe find things that you wouldn't normally stumble upon, so the plan on DU4 is to break navigation down into two paths. At the top of every page there will be a button which says "Navigate" -- that'll get you directly to Latest, Greatest, the main forums, and the forum categories. There will also be a button which says "My Stuff" -- that will get you to, well, your stuff. Your posts, inbox, bookmarks, settings, etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, this might all make more sense if you take a look at it. What I have here are some photos of DU4 running on an iPhone. This is not a mockup -- it's actually a live version of DU4, running live content. (I've blurred out our staging server address.)
Welcome to the DU4 Latest page!
Most of this should be instantly familiar to you, with the exception being the navigation bar with the two buttons I just explained above.
New Navigation
Hit the Navigation button or the My Stuff button to get you where you want to go. (Hitting the logo will take you to the home page, still under construction.)
Forum View
Here's our old friend General Discussion.
Greatest Page
Here's the Greatest page. Mobile default will now be to sort by highest number of recommendations, but you can easily switch to sort by most recent. What's new here is that you can also sort by most replies and last replied to.
Threads
Let's take a look at a couple of threads. The first photo shows the top of an OP, the second shows how a tweet is rendered on DU4, third shows an excerpt, the fourth shows a reply tree, the fifth shows some replies, and the sixth shows the bottom of the page.
Some extra cool stuff
One cool thing about rewriting the front-end code and updating to more modern HTML and CSS means we can do some neat tricks like giving you the option to view the site in "Night Mode":
Or, if you don't like the new version at all, we can make available a reverse-engineered version that looks a lot like the old familiar DU3:
Again, those pictures are live versions of DU4 running live content.
So there you have it -- for now at least. We still have a LOT of work to do, and since this is just a two-person operation it's going to be quite some time before DU4 is ready to launch. We plan to do some beta testing and get feedback from all of you along the way, so we'll have more updates in the future. But if you have any questions about DU4 right now, please feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.
Oh and don't forget, this week is the Summer Fund Drive so if you feel like kicking in a few bucks to help us along with this project, now is a great time!
Thanks for reading!
EarlG
= new reply since forum marked as read
I have to save money for the rest of this month but am looking forward to DU4.
K&R
Looks exciting... Will there be a beta like for DU3? I enjoyed testing DU3... Putting a review on DU2... Making people Hosts so they could see what it entailed... Being the first (Only?) to ban an Admin from a group 
You know, stuff like that 
There is a full-on desktop version too, as well as improved versions for tablet and laptop-size monitors. I posted the phone ones first because it's a bit harder to get the idea looking at small screenshots taken from a large monitor, but here are a few I just made:
Looks fabulous
Thanks, EarlG!
Nice to be informed and look forward to the testing updates!
;hattip: 
FWIW, I've found postimages to be easy, for example: 
(Photobucket died, to me, ages ago.)
happening tonight.
the next time it shows that 404 forbidden crap i will let you know.
maybe it's a facebook thing 
(as for the photo copyrights--stupidly, it never occurred to me)
thanks for all you're doing for du, earlg.
it is always much appreciated.
.
.
will the search function be updated? I often search for something that I know is there but it doesn't come up. I try using less words and still sometimes can't find something.
Maybe it's just me? 
But that will likely be a pretty big job, and I haven't run it by Elad yet so keep it under your hat otherwise he'll probably get mad at me
I didn't realize I had been directed to paypal when I selected which payment I wanted to make.
Ok. I think I get it now.
Thanks. 
I can't even imagine life without Democratic Underground. Thanks for all you do!
I like searching for stuff on DU. Often times I'll see the same article or issue discussed on several threads across several forums. Simplicity might cut down on duplication and make it easier to find something specific.
nt for no text might be a D.U. thing only, someone started it here but never made it into the dictionary.
Can you shorten this one....Mexicans Always Get Across?
Just don’t ever leave us. These are perilous times we live in and without DU, I don’t know what the hell I’d do. It keeps me well informed, engaged, pissed off and makes me laugh as well.
Democratic Underground….fighting Fascism since 2001.
I've been coming to DU almost every day from my desktop computer, but almost never from my phone. That's because I've hated the way it behaved (and looked) on my phone. Way too hard to read, way to hard to participate in conversations, can't post photos, etc.
I realize that many DUers don't have the choice, it's phone or nothing.
So this is great for all of us!
Can't wait to start using the new formats.
which is awesome!!
Almost makes me hope you're implementing the ability to Unrec a reply too.
I do have a legacy question. We've lost the ability to search much of DU1 and DU2. Is that data just gone? Is there any chance of repairing that data so that we have a complete record of DU1 and DU2 posts?
ETA: Just saw your reply upthread about maybe porting the DU2 posts. That would be amazing.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15726792
Thanks for all you do
Sid
You were the first person to spot this new feature 
We're keeping it pretty simple to start -- there isn't going to be a "Greatest Page For Replies" (at least not yet). But if you look at the reply tree in the "Threads" section, you'll see that there is a way to highlight replies in the tree -- you can either highlight the 5 most recent posts, or any replies in the thread which have received more than 5 recs. And each reply will keep a count of how many recs it has. Props to Elad for getting this new functionality up and running in short order.
We're unlikely to go back to the days of Unrec though
And yeah as for DU2, the fact is that all of that data does still exist, it's just in a really messed up format right now. Ideally, we would be able to restore a lot of it. But again, that will be a major project for a later date.
PS. OPs can still be recommended of course, reccing replies is just a new bonus.
SO many times we have lamented our inability to rec posts. This is going to be a nice addition.
I saw it too. 
That's a LOT of work on view.
It's much appreciated, as is this site, in and of itself.
Thanks for all you do!
My brain has me convinced it happened only two or three years ago.
Jesus... that makes DU1 even older-- in my early thirties when I made my first post here. You're making me feel ancient and decrepit.
I think it will work broadly the same way it does now, but the operative words there are "it will work," which it sometimes does not at the moment
FWIW, Bookmarks works on my phone, I haven't seen the issue you describe. But... people have occasionally reported issues with the Bookmarks page for a little while now, hopefully DU4 will remedy that.
I'm using a night mode now on DU, via a plugin to Chrome.
I’ll add it to the list
I knew you guys were working on an overhaul and I like the fruit it is bearing!
What I miss are some of the post formatting tags. I do get why most of them were removed but there are times when I long for some of the different font styles/sizes/colors we used to have and especially wish we could do tables in a post with columns and headers.
Also, I'm a DU "Main Page" (front page) user and am hoping that doesn't change to much although I expect you guys might tweak it.
Otherwise, excellent work so far!!!
so we have such a nice place to discuss the issues that are important to all of us DUers! 
I was promised a pony!
Actually, looks pretty good. From the look of it, I might actually use the mobile mode of DU4 on my phone. As it is right now, I prefer to use the desktop web site on my phone instead. Even if it's a little inconvenient panning around the desktop pages on a small screen, I feel too many features are missing from the DU3 mobile mode.
Roughly what you would get on a laptop.
I think it will be really great for people to get that kind of feedback. Almost as good as the hearts during Valentine's week --- almost!
