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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe US went into Afghanistan to steal all their shit and used 9/11 as an excuse. Plain and simple.
Spare me this bullshit about fighting terrorism, caring about the rights of women or spreading Democracy.
Didn't work out. And it won't for Iran or China or Pakistan either.
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mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)eom
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Everybody knows of the US desire to be the worlds largest opium dealer....really?
Response to EX500rider (Reply #9)
UnderThisLaw This message was self-deleted by its author.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)I responded to the assertion that the US was interested in taking over the opium trade...is that a "right wing talking point"?
And didn't even mention President Biden so not sure where you get "boiling over in anger" lol
Response to EX500rider (Reply #49)
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EX500rider
(12,583 posts)
I can't believe he said that.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)And in 20 years how many American owned mines opened in Afghanistan? Zero you say...quite the evil plot to steal their resources...I bet we wanted to fluoridate their water supplies to pollute their "precious bodily fluids" too!
Response to EX500rider (Reply #55)
UnderThisLaw This message was self-deleted by its author.
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)
ProfessorGAC
(76,706 posts)They have few resources that can't be obtained more cheaply, more conveniently and less dangerously in many parts of the world.
People suggested nearly 20 years ago it was natural gas or a Persian Gulf pipeline. But, the US barely gets oil from there, and the natural gas deposits are a small fraction of the US.
The money motive just wasn't there.
It was a bungled revenge mission because somebody had to pay for nine-eleven. The Taliban had harbored OBL & al Qaida and they were a relatively soft target.
Then, the bunglers turned it into a nation building exercise. An endeavor in which they said they'd never engage. They bungled that too.
I do agree it never had anything to do with the Afghani people's rights, or their women's rights. The bunglers were never so enlightened.
If you're right, and it was about stuff to be pilfered, it was even dumber than it's already proven to be.
Champp
(2,409 posts)And it sure as Hell wasn't going to be the oily and intimate Republican Saudi MoneyBuck Besties.
Champp
(2,409 posts)...Mohammed bin Salman - whoa 
DFW
(60,189 posts)They looted museums, and found huge caches of ancient bronze, silver and gold coins buried by the many groups of ancient Greek (Bactrian), Indian and Persian groups that traveled through there two thousand years ago. They also find groups of them uncovered when bombs explode. They have been selling these things for close to twenty years, mostly through Denmark, which never adopted Germany's restrictive "cultural protection" laws. The German laws are a joke, anyway, because they were passed as a public relations move, without ever hiring even one antiquities expert with enough knowledge to recognize that a coin dated "214 B.C." obviously wasn't.
Many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of these ancient Indian and Parthian (Persian) coins have been imported, quite legally, into the USA and sold to the public, usually through mass marketing programs (TV and magazines, I would assume). Since 99% of these coins do not constitute any kind of rarities, no one can tell a Taliban-sold coin from an identical one that somebody's grandfather bought on a trip to Afghanistan in 1960 for $3. Large, recent quantities, however, are of obvious provenance. All those "conserv'tive" people buying an old coin "from the time of Jesus" from some slick marketer with a story would probably have a fit if they knew they were supporting the Taliban. But maybe not, since they seem to find a way to rationalize all the other screwy shit they advocate.
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)I had no clue about any of this. Thanks for posting!
DFW
(60,189 posts)Most of it looks like exotic junk until you hear the history behind it. It is really fascinating to learn about the ancient Greek expedition to the area and the founding of their colony there (Bactria). Then the northern Indian monarchs, and the very different artwork on their coins. The Persian ones are more difficult to relate to.
But the funniest part for me is who ends up buying this stuff in the USA. They would cringe in horror if they knew their continued purchasing of this stuff supported the Taliban. Indeed, one dealer in Texas I know was shocked when he found out, and told me he would stop peddling these particular items altogether. I have no idea whether he followed through with that, but he was pretty shaken, which surprised me. The Scandinavian contact never (to my knowledge) once lied about where his merchandise was coming from. All one had to do was ask.
Totally agree with you!
Takket
(23,715 posts)they did a shitty job of it... but that's what they did.
Dan
(5,180 posts)I heard that it was a live and let live situation when it came to that trade.
But, I may be wrong.
panader0
(25,816 posts)The US could have just sought out Bin Laden at Torah Bora and left. But the Bush
administration needed to occupy the country for Cheney's pipe-dream.
https://towardfreedom.org/story/archives/asia-archives/the-missing-link-to-the-war-in-afghanistan/
Which only begs more questions about 9/11.
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)A way to get from one place to another. A place full of intrigue and danger.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Taking oil from where to where exactly?
The only big oil producer they border is Iran, I doubt the US wants to build them a pipeline.
rampartc
(5,835 posts)to take nat gas from the former ussr to india. the taliban could not guarantee the security of the pipeline so, in short order, they were removed and replaced with unocal executive karzoi.
there is also said to be a large amount of rare earth elements.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)So the Indians could have natural gas...lol...you do know that Pakistan is in the way right, wouldn't it just be easier to build a pipeline thru there?
rampartc
(5,835 posts)might be why chevron was able to buy them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Oil_Pipeline
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Especially one outside the US that would not export to the US?
Also Dick Cheney worked for Halliburton, not Unocal.
rampartc
(5,835 posts)corporate profits have been important since long begore there was a u s government.
out
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)That goes to India... And then in 20 years didn't even build it.
Lol
panader0
(25,816 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)
BlueGreenLady
(2,887 posts)The was was to gain access to oil fields in Iraq. It also made the Military Industrial Complex in the US to make Trillions of dollars over 20 years.
If anyone has a good book or resource to better answer this question, I would like to read it. Thanks
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)...then start a war and then pacify the country just so you can built a pipeline that doesn't even deliver oil to the US
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)including the route from Eurasia through Afghanistan to the India subcontinent, and involves many nations. That geopolitical struggle predates the need for oil by many centuries and continues today. Only later did that also affect who controls and/or gets access to ME petroleum.
I was just reading speculation that our withdrawal could lead to yet another of the series of proxy wars by various nations in Afghanistan, this time between nuclear powers India and Pakistan. Of course,the proxy warring between the U.S. and Russia continues, even if tRump handed victory in this era to Russia.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)But for modern times Afghanistan has none of the infrastructure needed, no ports, no navigable rivers, no railroads, nada
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and not always proxy, by distant world powers in Afghanistan, that might explain it.
Afghanistan might be kind of a Middle East version of the isolated and seldom mentioned DR Congo. Very unlike Afghanistan, the DRE was spared invasions and occupations by the British empire and the Cold War superpowers U.S. and Russia.
Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #1)
niyad This message was self-deleted by its author.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)So what riches did we take home in the 20 years exactly? A few goats maybe?
tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)LULZ
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)No one in the US govt or military would have thought the Afghans couldn't fight back.
Any other theories you want to try?
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)
Azathoth
(4,677 posts)Don't bother me with contrary facts.
Sneederbunk
(17,496 posts)tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)Seriously, you're in Alex Jones territory.
tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)Signing a contract means little if you never get to do anything with it and it does not appear they ever have. According to your article from 2018:
"Poor security, rampant corruption and a lack of roads, power and other infrastructure, have hampered development of Afghanistan’s mining sector. The few major deals which have been signed, including the vast Mes Aynak copper project signed with China’s state-run China Metallurgical Group Corp, have so far remained largely inactive."
And that is a contract that in 2018 had been signed for years. The one the article talks about is for areas called Badakhshan and Sar-e Pul, both of which are completely in Taliban hands... Not likely anything will happen.
intelpug
(159 posts)Your right on there, For my two cents worth I actually work underground myself. The company I work for owned a promising claim several years ago in south America but sold it because the cost to develop it was too high. The sight had good mineral deposits but power was almost exactly 100 miles away over mountainous country with damn few actual roads in the area. Among other things the government down there stipulated that any power line built must also feed any and all villages,settlements, etc,along it's route at the company's expense making this a losing deal. In 2015 my employer grossed about one billion dollars,,, their expenses? ,, Right at 900 million for the year. Keep in mind this other property was in a stable area, not a war torn geopolitical hotbed where it would be private investment money at risk, the US government would never directly fund such projects and as anyone who has worked around mines can tell you, do they turn over a lot of money? absolutely., but they can also tell you what ABSOLUTE UNIMAGINABLE black holes for money to disappear into they are to keep afloat as well.
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)NameAlreadyTaken
(2,301 posts)tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)According to a joint study by The Pentagon and the United States Geological Survey, Afghanistan has an estimated US$1 trillion of untapped minerals. There are six lapis mines in Afghanistan, the largest being located in Badakhshan province. ... The first Afghan oil production began in late 2012.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)Also, what are we supposed to do with lapis?
tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)Why else would we invest so much to be there to begin with?
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)base to contain Iran and Russia.
elleng
(141,926 posts)Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)to the Russians who notoriously failed in their Afghan adventure. That bit didn’t work so well.
mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)Okay, it's a movie, but the plot didn't come out of thin air.
Charlie Wilson's War (film)
The Russians paid a big price for their Afghanistan adventure.
The Salang Tunnel fire occurred on 3 November 1982 in Afghanistan's Salang Tunnel during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Details are uncertain and officially the number of casualties was recorded as between 168–176 Soviet and Afghan soldiers and civilians. Despite this, contemporary Western media claimed the incident may have been the deadliest known road accident, and one of the deadliest fires of modern times, with the death toll estimated at 2,700 to 3,000 people.
{snip}
elleng
(141,926 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)blast helicopters out of the sky.
And then it wasn't.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,764 posts)...until you abandon them. 
MoonlitKnight
(1,585 posts)Surround Iran to pressure and possibly invade. The Saudis benefit the most in that scenario.
It ended up being a complete disaster that strengthened Pakistan while Iraq invasion strengthened Iran. Now it’s just a big mess.
Well past time to leave. Unfortunately it’s under the crappy peace deal Trump “negotiated “ that basically told the Taliban “don’t shoot at us and we will leave”.
leftstreet
(40,683 posts)
$1 trillion over 20 years to protect a global drug trade
sounds about right
SWBTATTReg
(26,257 posts)hammer, pay my contractor army (each member) a $1000 a day (or more), pay all of my grossly marked up inventory (guns, bullets, food, etc.) at 10 times the normal, going rate. In short, it's stick it to Uncle Sam...Isn't that what Prince (a military contractor) did?
--snip--
Erik Prince and his U.A.E. private military firm helped recruit and train over 1,000 soldiers from Latin American countries. Then, their bodies started appearing on battlefields in Yemen.
etc. (tons of stories out there about this guy...
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(135,732 posts)Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)GoCubsGo
(34,915 posts)Not just Eric Prince, either. Dick Cheney's old company, Halliburton, profited mightily, as well. I'm sure there were others, on top of that.
Mosby
(19,491 posts)sarisataka
(22,695 posts)a piss-poor thief. Spend 2 and a half trillion to steal a trillion worth of resources then forget to actually steal them.
but that is why we went to IRAQ FOR OIL,
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
littlemissmartypants
(33,631 posts)And minerals to fund their activities for many years. Afghanistan is loaded with those resources.
DetlefK
(16,670 posts)Untapped. That means, the US would first have to find the minerals, then set up mines, then get the minerals from the mines to some railway-logistics-center, then get the minerals to some seaport in either Pakistan or Iran.
And, no offense but, nobody in their right mind thinks that the US would attack Iran. Attacking Iran would make the invasion of Iraq look like a cake-walk, because Iran is bigger, has more population, has a better economy, a better military, more foreign allies, and so much money that they can afford to fund the Hezbollah-militias in Lebanon. It would be a quagmire bigger than Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam combined.
Plus, even though the country is currently culturally divided between the religiously conservative older generation and a liberal youth, attacking Iran would unite the population of Iran against a common enemy.
Seriously, what kind of drugs did you do to actually type that the US would attack China? Because China is a the biggest economic power-house of planet Earth and could ruin the US-economy with the snap of a finger by demanding that the US pay out the US-loans that China has bought. And if the US were to refuse to do that, nobody would ever fucking again buy US credits. Goodbye US-economy, hello inflation.
Oh, and did you know that China has good diplomatic relationships with Africa? If the US attacks China, it can kiss the whole continent of Africa goodbye, in a geopolitical sense. (Russian propaganda has already started spreading anti-american talking-points in Africa. The russian media has framed the western criticism of alternative cures for COVID as a racist attack on the traditional medicines of Africa.)
And please explain why the US would attack Pakistan? Sure, rogue elements in their intelligence-community protected Osama Bin Laden, but they are one of the few islamic intelligence-services that provides the US with any information on islamic terrorists at all.
Plus, they have nukes.
Plus, Pakistan is an enemy of India, which is in a Cold War with China for dominance on the asian continent. Attacking Pakistan would be seen as an attack on the geopolitical interests of China.
UnderThisLaw
(335 posts)Now re-read the OP and tell me if the remark about Iran, Pakistan and China is better interpreted as a comment on any intervention they may try in Afghanistan rather one regarding any action the US might take against them
DetlefK
(16,670 posts)If an author wants me to read their statement as nuanced and ambiguous, the shouldn't start with an angry emotional tirade.
Dan
(5,180 posts)AkFemDem
(2,508 posts)Spend $2 trillion to invade Haiti to steal their equally vast cache of riches…
GoCubsGo
(34,915 posts)They were just excuses to funnel more of our tax dollars into the Military Industrial Complex and private contractors. Billions of tax dollars were funneled into the likes of Dick Cheney's Halliburton, Eric Prince's Blackwater, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon... Lots of Congresspeople with investments in these companies, as well. Not all of them are Republicans, either. They all love the campaign donations from these companies, too. Like General Smedley Butler said, war is a racket.
I agree whole-heartedly with you about sparing us from the bullshit. What about the rights of women and Democracy here? Both are being gutted by some of the very people who oppose our withdrawal (McConnell, Graham, etc.) And, if we couldn't fix things over TWENTY GODDAMN YEARS, we'll never fix them.
NCjack
(10,297 posts)“Afghanistan has vast mineral deposits, including coal, copper and iron ore, talc, lithium and uranium, as well as gold, precious stones, oil and gas. Since the fall of the Taliban in 2001, the sector has been seen as the potential backbone of a post-war economy—and still is. But few major miners will risk venturing into the war-ravaged country—and China’s decision to discontinue work at Mes Aynak is indicative of even Beijing’s disinclination to operate in the face of insurgent threats ..."
[link:http:/foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/27/afghanistan-china-spy-ring-mcc-mining-negotiations-mineral-wealth|]
RicROC
(1,249 posts)quite sure why we were in Afghanistan after Bin Laden was Epsteined.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)RicROC
(1,249 posts)but we never got it.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Or did we just forget? Lol
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)Lots of guesses and fighting in this thread. One thing I know we for sure as shit weren’t there for anything related to 9/11.
JI7
(93,618 posts)I don't know why people always need a conspiracy theory .
David__77
(24,731 posts)…
The Revolution
(895 posts)Of course we went into Afghanistan because of 9/11. I agree it wasn't about women's rights or anything like that because that was a problem before 9/11 and no one gave a shit. But to say it had nothing to do with 9/11 is nonsense.
We know for a fact the neocons were looking for an excuse to attack Iraq, and wanted to use 9/11 to do so. They weren't that interested in Afghanistan at all but essentially had no choice. They had to go into Afghanistan first while they worked on trying to tie Iraq to 9/11 as well and cook up a pack of lies about WMDs.
Bush and the neocons completely dropped the ball in Afghanistan to go after their real target.
betsuni
(29,078 posts)Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz and other neocons in the Bush administration saw 9/11 as the perfect opportunity to put into motion the big plan for the U.S. taking over influence in the Middle East. Afghanistan first because supposedly going after Osama bin Laden was a convenient excuse to get the war ball rolling, next Iraq, then Iran. That's what I remember. Looked good on paper to the neocons.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=128491&page=1
Dan
(5,180 posts)Or remember reading part of it back in the day.
DenaliDemocrat
(1,777 posts)The Soviets destroyed everything in Afghanistan. There was nothing left to steal.
littlemissmartypants
(33,631 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Or were we just waiting till the time was right and nobody was looking LOL